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  Dragon Models' 1:72 Saturn V 5-foot model (Page 13)

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Author Topic:   Dragon Models' 1:72 Saturn V 5-foot model
E2M Lem Man
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Posts: 832
From: Los Angeles CA. USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 01-15-2014 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for E2M Lem Man   Click Here to Email E2M Lem Man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think that this is great! It brings a sense of life to the model displayed. Any possibility that this will be offered in any other scales — like 1/96?

keymichael1855
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Posts: 94
From: Virginia Beach, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 01-16-2014 10:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for keymichael1855   Click Here to Email keymichael1855     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are you referring to the MLP and LUT background for the Dragon? If so, I could adapt both of them for you in 1:96 scale. Just send me an email if you, or anyone else, is interested in the setup in 1:96 scale.

sev8n
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Posts: 127
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 01-17-2014 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by apollolem:
Of course, I waited too long to purchase the Detolf... anyone with a suggestion for a similar style glass case?
While my local store shows them out of stock with no expected availability date, they ARE now showing them as available by ordering online. While shipping would be $$$ I wonder if they would ship to your local store for pickup?

apollolem
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Posts: 14
From: Novi, MI USA
Registered: May 2013

posted 01-19-2014 12:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for apollolem   Click Here to Email apollolem     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good idea, I'll check with Ikea to see if they can ship to my area store. The irony of this is that I'm only 4 miles from the Detroit area store here and just kept putting off purchasing two Detolfs never thinking that they might be discontinued.

Kevmac
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Posts: 196
From: College Station, TX
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 01-26-2014 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevmac   Click Here to Email Kevmac     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Keep checking the IKEA website or call to check future stock possibilities. Dallas and Houston just got a large stock in. I was able to get two picked up for me. Thought I had missed my chance also. Maybe a store in your geographic area will get more.

sev8n
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Posts: 127
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 02-17-2014 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My local Ikea has replenished their stock of Detolf cabinets numerous times since I bought what I thought was their "last" one. According to their website the Dallas store currently has twelve Detolfs in stock.

I now wonder if this "out of production" claim made months ago was nothing more than rumor or, worse, an attempt to increase sales.

haveblue
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Posts: 6
From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 2012

posted 02-18-2014 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for haveblue     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually, the SKU of the Detolf was changed, thereby 'discontinuing' it. The actual product itself wasn't discontinued - the SKU and packaging was changed, making it a new product. Stock of this 'new' version should be available now.

AussiePete
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Posts: 72
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Jan 2014

posted 02-18-2014 07:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AussiePete   Click Here to Email AussiePete     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just built the Dragon 1/72 Saturn after years of not building. I think I did a pretty good effort but who's ever 100% happy. Will post photos later.

Keen to get the better scale batted F-1s at some point. Building this model reignited my love of modelling.

I might add that seeing these models in the Detolf display case I had to get one. Lucky my local IKEA had them in stock.

sev8n
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Posts: 127
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 02-18-2014 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by haveblue:
...the SKU and packaging was changed, making it a new product.
I did note that the most recent cabinet was in two smaller boxes instead of having everything in one box like my earlier cabinet(s). It did make it a lot easier to load/unload the box/es and haul up the stairs.

apollolem
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Posts: 14
From: Novi, MI USA
Registered: May 2013

posted 02-18-2014 11:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for apollolem   Click Here to Email apollolem     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, my local Ikea now has a Detolf on the showroom floor finally, although none yet in stock. Website shows 18 arriving there this weekend. Whew!

apollolem
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Posts: 14
From: Novi, MI USA
Registered: May 2013

posted 02-24-2014 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for apollolem   Click Here to Email apollolem     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I picked up two Detolfs today, they had a pallet stacked with them. What a relief!

keymichael1855
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Posts: 94
From: Virginia Beach, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 03-17-2014 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keymichael1855   Click Here to Email keymichael1855     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
After designing a 1:48 scale SLA for a friend of mine, I decided to scale it down, adapt it to fit the 1:72 Dragon kit/prebuilt, and add an equally detailed Instrument Unit. As many of you know, the Dragon SLA/IU is missing a lot of surface detail. Here is how it came out:

Here's a comparison of mine and the Dragon version. Mine is on the left.

keymichael1855
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Posts: 94
From: Virginia Beach, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 03-17-2014 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keymichael1855   Click Here to Email keymichael1855     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also, the upper part of the LES tower is missing a lot of surface detail as well on the Dragon. I have a 3D printed part that fits nicely on top and finished off the spacecraft end nicely. Here is a pic and a comparison shot (mine is on the left):

If you are interested in these parts to upgrade your Dragon kit or prebuilt, here is a link to the parts in my shop on Shapeways:

Here is a link to the upper portion of the LES tower.

Should you have any comments or questions, please let me know — I'm glad to help. Thanks!

bdipaolo
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Posts: 40
From:
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 03-20-2014 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bdipaolo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Michael: Drool, drool! Awesome.

keymichael1855
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Posts: 94
From: Virginia Beach, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 03-24-2014 06:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for keymichael1855   Click Here to Email keymichael1855     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Barrett, glad you like the SLA! It really is a nice piece.

Retro Rocket
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Posts: 307
From: Santa Paula, Ca,. USA
Registered: Dec 2007

posted 03-24-2014 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Retro Rocket   Click Here to Email Retro Rocket     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your models look great! I built about five 1/48 Saturn V models over the years, (one is on display at the Hornet if anyone has been there and taken a picture of it I sure would like a copy.) The master parts were okay at the time but now I'd like to do new ones but I just haven't had the time to put into the CAD models.

For the SLA adapter I took the Revell kit parts and molded, cast, molded cast cast to shrink the part to the right size. Those parts are nice because they have the really fine rivets and details. Unfortunately details that small are lost in 3D printing. I was thinking of using Archers 3d rivets to replace them, then mold it.

Can you make the SLA into the five separate parts? That way I could add the rivets, any interior parts, hinges, etc.

keymichael1855
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Posts: 94
From: Virginia Beach, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 03-25-2014 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keymichael1855   Click Here to Email keymichael1855     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would be glad to separate the SLA into five pieces for you. Just send me a message and we can take it from there.

cspg
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Posts: 4820
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 03-27-2014 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On sale from the Flying Mule for $209.95.

jutrased
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Posts: 53
From: North Smithfield, RI USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 04-22-2014 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jutrased   Click Here to Email jutrased     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For anyone who missed out on getting this model, you have another chance to get one at a great price. The Flying Mule has been offering it at $209.95, but until 4/29/2014 you can get 10% off with the code NDSL1Z16. That works out to $188.96. Plus shipping is free.

Docdrew
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Posts: 17
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: Aug 2013

posted 06-20-2014 12:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Docdrew   Click Here to Email Docdrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The top part of the systems tunnel on the third stage is too long. Has anyone shortened it to the correct length? If so I would appreciate knowing how you did it, e.g. what specifically did you use to cut it, and how did you cut it without damaging the underlying rocket body? Thanks.

mode1charlie
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Posts: 671
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 06-20-2014 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mode1charlie   Click Here to Email mode1charlie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Michael, I somehow missed your earlier post on the SLA/IU and the LES tower. Well done! Will likely be picking up a set of these soon.

One question though - do you have a recommended way to separate the LES scaffolding on the original part and mate it with the new 3D printed part?

AussiePete
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Posts: 72
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Jan 2014

posted 06-20-2014 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AussiePete   Click Here to Email AussiePete     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you want to save the original parts I would use a very sharp exacto knife. I'm about to do just that after I give the LES a coat of white.

keymichael1855
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Posts: 94
From: Virginia Beach, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 06-21-2014 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keymichael1855   Click Here to Email keymichael1855     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Burke, you can either do as Peter says and use a very sharp exacto knife, or I actually used a Dremmel with a very thin cutting wheel to do the same thing. As long as you are very careful, either method will work. My tower will fit perfectly after trimming off the old, non detailed one from Dragon. Good luck!

AussiePete
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Posts: 72
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Jan 2014

posted 07-03-2014 07:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AussiePete   Click Here to Email AussiePete     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have purchased Apogee 1/70 F-1 engines TO MOD. Test fit. Apogee turbo pump removed.

Apogee 1/70 F1 engine turbo pump assy

Hybrid Dragon/Apogee F1 engine.

Two engines test fitted along side RealSpace Models batted engines.

2 hybrid Dragon/Apogee F1 engines fitted to Dragon 1/72 Saturn V

Michael Key's LES 3D printed fitted:

Michael key's 1/72 LES for Dragon 1/72

AussiePete
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Posts: 72
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Jan 2014

posted 07-07-2014 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AussiePete   Click Here to Email AussiePete     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hybrid Dragon/Apogee 5 F-1 engines fitted:

20140707_223752

apolloprojeckt
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Posts: 1009
From: arnhem netherlands
Registered: Feb 2009

posted 07-07-2014 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for apolloprojeckt   Click Here to Email apolloprojeckt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very nice done!!!

Ronpur
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Posts: 556
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012

posted 07-07-2014 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those look great! Batted engines may be accurate, but I love the detail on the "naked" engines.

Docdrew
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Posts: 17
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: Aug 2013

posted 07-27-2014 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Docdrew   Click Here to Email Docdrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Speaking of "naked" engines, I'm having a difficult time getting the F-1s to attach to the base/heatshield. The knobs seem to be too big to fit into their respective holes. I would appreciate any help/ideas on how to accomplish this without breaking something. Thanks.

Ironman One
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Posts: 56
From: Ormond Beach, FL USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted 07-29-2014 10:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ironman One   Click Here to Email Ironman One     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had the same problem and used a dab of lubricant in this case Armorall. Worked just fine. Don't use anything that might "attack" the plastic. Also don't use Vaseline.

Docdrew
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Posts: 17
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: Aug 2013

posted 07-30-2014 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Docdrew   Click Here to Email Docdrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the tip.

Docdrew
Member

Posts: 17
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: Aug 2013

posted 08-02-2014 01:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Docdrew   Click Here to Email Docdrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
After getting the F-1s installed I went about attaching the fins and made sure that they were properly located in relation to the four position numbers on the sides of the first stage. Then I assembled the whole rocket and noticed that the fin positions (i.e. A-D) were in the wrong locations in relation to other external features on the rocket when using my Bandai 1/144 Apollo 11 as a reference.

As an example, the large LOX vent fairing on the second stage should be on the same "side" of the rocket as position number 4 (IIII), which is between fins C and D. But on my Dragon model it is located on the "side" labeled position 2 (II). Since the locations of the external features of the rocket and the position numbers are fixed this creates a problem.

There have been many posts criticizing the inaccuracies of this model but no one ever mentioned the problem that I am describing. So, to summarize, if I correctly position the fins in reference to the position numbers then the fins are incorrectly positioned in reference to the rest of the rocket. Which way would be best — to have the fins properly located in reference to the position numbers or to the rest of the rocket?

I would be interested to know if all of the Dragon (prebuilt) models are like this or if mine is atypical. Thanks.

sev8n
Member

Posts: 127
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 08-02-2014 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I noticed this problem when I assembled my pre-painted kit but I didn't mention it here, it just seemed like "piling on" with more criticism of the model at the time.

Since mine was the pre-painted version I addressed the problem by cutting new alignment slots in the mating flanges of the stages. IIRC I rotated the SII 180 degrees relative to the SIC. I don't remember if I had to rotate the SIVB - the 4D 1/100 SaturnV has similar "clocking" problems and I don't remember which fixes I did to which model.

There are other rotational alignment issues with the kit as is, I plan to repaint the entire booster when I incorporate other accuracy fixes.

edit: You can't just move the fins/letters because then they won't match the orientation of the center F1 engine relative to the fin letters. You have to rotate the stages relative to each other.

I found pics of the mods I made, hope these help:

SIC before:

SIC after:

SIVB before (marked for cut):

SIVB after:

Docdrew
Member

Posts: 17
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: Aug 2013

posted 08-02-2014 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Docdrew   Click Here to Email Docdrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks so much for your reply and the photos. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to do any cutting but I might just give it a try.

Docdrew
Member

Posts: 17
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: Aug 2013

posted 08-03-2014 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Docdrew   Click Here to Email Docdrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just noticed something concerning the correction for the S-IVB. It would properly align the third stage (e.g. the APS units) in relation to the first and second stages (after correcting the second stage) but then it will not be in proper alignment relative to the paint pattern on the interstage between the second and third stages. This is because Dragon did not attach the interstage correctly — it needs to be rotated to the same degree that you are rotating the S-IVB when you make your correction. Therefore, if Dragon had properly positioned the interstage no correction would have been necessary.

It amazes me how Dragon can produce and build this model without noticing that the second stage is incorrectly rotated 180 degrees and the interstage paint pattern is misaligned relative to the second stage. I think they need to improve their QA process.

sev8n
Member

Posts: 127
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 08-03-2014 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Docdrew, that's one of the other "rotational alignment issues" I alluded to. Rather than risk damaging the interstage by removing it, I plan to repaint it. Since Dragon also failed to provide retro-rocket fairings on the interstage - and Dragon's poor paint masking of the roll pattern - I plan to repaint the interstage (along with the rest of the Saturn booster).

mode1charlie
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Posts: 671
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 08-04-2014 12:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mode1charlie   Click Here to Email mode1charlie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has someone made a comprehensive list of the inaccuracies in the (both pre-built and unbuilt) model? That would be handy.

It would also be quite the ticket if NewWare or RealSpace Models were to offer a PE/resin set to modify the model. I know that NewWare does offer a 1/72 decal set.

sev8n
Member

Posts: 127
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 08-04-2014 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mode1charlie:
Has someone made a comprehensive list of the inaccuracies in the (both pre-built and unbuilt) model?

This link contains a description of most (but not all) of the geometry errors, although it does not mention the incorrectly rotated stages discussed above.

Docdrew
Member

Posts: 17
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: Aug 2013

posted 08-08-2014 09:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Docdrew   Click Here to Email Docdrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now that I've finally finished my minor modifications, and have the beast put together, I'm going to start work on the Detolf display cabinet.

Various posts have talked about modifying the base of either the rocket or the cabinet so the rocket will fit. For those of you have the cabinet I would like to know, if you assemble it with the included base and top, what the exact measurement/distance is on the inside between the base and top.

Presuming that the rocket is too tall to fit, what if you don't use the base that comes with the rocket and, instead, drill a hole in the Detolf base and place the metal rod into the Detolf base. Would that work? Or do you really have to replace the Detolf base with a thinner one? Thanks.

sev8n
Member

Posts: 127
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 08-08-2014 11:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mine is free-standing in a Detolf case without the kit base or rod. There is maybe 1" between the tip of the LES and the top of the case.

cycleroadie
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Posts: 322
From: Apalachin, NY USA
Registered: May 2011

posted 08-09-2014 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cycleroadie   Click Here to Email cycleroadie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Docdrew:
Or do you really have to replace the Detolf base with a thinner one?
I took a wood plaque from A.C. Moore, painted it, laminated on an Apollo 11 patch image, then drilled a hole and epoxied the metal rod to it, the plaque is juts a little over 1/2" thick, and all together leaves me some room at the top.


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