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  Dragon Models' 1:72 Saturn V 5-foot model (Page 9)

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Author Topic:   Dragon Models' 1:72 Saturn V 5-foot model
divemaster
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From: ridgefield, ct
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posted 07-20-2012 01:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I see that Flying Mule is out of stock. I might have ordered the last one.

the clocks running
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From: Rochester, NY USA
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posted 07-20-2012 02:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running   Click Here to Email the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Congrats Tracy! Glad that you made the purchase. I also bought my 1/72 Saturn V from The Flying Mule and was happy that I did. They are a great shop to work with.

divemaster
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posted 07-20-2012 02:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It was the next best thing to an impulse buy. I just knew I'd be sorry if I didn't get it (and add the LM from the Apollo 10 model). If my wife was still alive, she would kill me.

Now I have to decide if I'm going to build a LUT and a crawler in 1/72 scale, too. And, for the record, I've asked Tomas at New Ware models if he'd produce a set of umbilicals in 1/72 scale. Can't hurt to ask.

Man, if Wally Schirra was still with us, he'd be all over me to get a Saturn IB version built. That man loved his toys.

cycleroadie
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From: Apalachin, NY USA
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posted 07-20-2012 06:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cycleroadie   Click Here to Email cycleroadie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by divemaster:
The F-1's are another story. Are they removable?
The F-1s and the fins are actually separate parts that you have to assemble to the stage anyway, so easy for you to work on.

sev8n
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posted 07-21-2012 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I received mine earlier this week, and frankly I'm a bit disappointed in the fidelity and finish of the model. With the poor seams and numerous sink marks I've seen so far, I will probably fix these issues and repaint the entire model. I have ordered the decal sheet for the Apogee 1/70 Saturn V to see if they can be used on the Dragon model.

the clocks running
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posted 07-21-2012 09:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running   Click Here to Email the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was prepared for some level of disappointment when I received my model because I did a lot of research before I ordered it. Hey, for a few hundred dollars and the giant scale that Dragon provides can we really be all that surprised or disappointed. I like the model but really do not love it. I will keep it though.

the clocks running
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posted 07-21-2012 10:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running   Click Here to Email the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by divemaster:
I'll probably do the fins in Bare Metal Foil.
I have come to love Bare Metal Foil. The Flat Aluminum Bare Metal Foil will probably work out perfect for this job.

divemaster
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posted 07-26-2012 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My 1/72 Apollo 10 and 1/72 Saturn V arrived today. I opened up the Apollo 10 box. VERY impressive display piece. A lot of work went into this on Dragon's part for a very niche market. I'll open up the Saturn tomorrow and see how it looks.

But, yes, Bare Metal Foil is the answer to many problems. Great product. Also, gold candy wrappers are a great substitute for Kapton if need be.

the clocks running
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posted 07-26-2012 11:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running   Click Here to Email the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have found that gold origami paper works for Kapton as well.

divemaster
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posted 07-27-2012 12:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bare Metal Foil works very well in a lot of circumstances.

I have to do a resin 1/144 CSM. I will spray the entire model in flat white primer - two or three coats worth. Then wrap the SM in aluminum Bare Metal Foil. Using a SHARP hobby knife, but out the radiators. You have a perfect CSM with a boost protect cover [in my case] and perfect white radiators. The rest of the SM looks like it's metal.

A wonderful product for those that want a metal, not metal paint, look. It should work wonders on the Saturn V fins. I'll just have to have a look at the F1 engines. I might have to go after Metalizer paint if they're not the right color, otherwise, it will make me nuts.

I'm surprised Dragon, with all of the work that they put into this, missed these two very simple corrections - and it's just color, not the shape of the part.

apolloprojeckt
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posted 07-27-2012 12:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for apolloprojeckt   Click Here to Email apolloprojeckt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The paint color Gunmetal is a very good, mixing with iron color and you get this:

the clocks running
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posted 07-27-2012 04:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running   Click Here to Email the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pascal, Is that F1 engine from the Dragon 1/72 Saturn V?

Great job modifying it!

apolloprojeckt
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posted 07-27-2012 07:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for apolloprojeckt   Click Here to Email apolloprojeckt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, this is the smaller version 1/96. I'm busy with 1/72, I find the turbopump exhaust manifold too small on the 1/72.

garymilgrom
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posted 07-27-2012 11:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for garymilgrom   Click Here to Email garymilgrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by apolloprojeckt:
I find the turbopump exhaust manifold too small on the 1/72.
Pascal - I assume you will be running hydrazine and LOX through the turbopumps - is that why you need them sized properly?

apolloprojeckt
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posted 07-27-2012 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for apolloprojeckt   Click Here to Email apolloprojeckt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, so as you see the photo of the other scale that details will come on my model. I have experienced in the past some people don't see this extra made details not at all.

divemaster
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From: ridgefield, ct
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posted 07-27-2012 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hate to admit it, I'm a bit disappointed with the big Saturn for all of the reasons listed.

Pascal - very nice color for the F-1's as well as the added detail. You need to do the same for the J-2's on the 1/72 version.

They just missed too many small, but obvious, items. The S-IVB thrust structure is making me nuts (along with the lack of the umbilical doors). It's obvious that they designed this to make into a kit. They put a lot more work into the Apollo 10 die-cast version. But I've blown the same amount of cash on worse things.

the clocks running
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posted 07-27-2012 11:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running   Click Here to Email the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was just looking at my Dragon 1/72 Saturn V before I sat down to review this website and was thinking the same exact thing Tracy. I like the 1/72 Saturn V but don't really love it. I will keep it but my Famemaster 4D Vision and Bandai Apollo 11 Saturn V models offer so much more to me.

divemaster
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posted 07-28-2012 01:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Naturally, my mind is already drifting into scratch build mode. That's a horrible thing.

If I was good at making cones as the interstages, I'd be absolutely sunk.

No, don't love it. I like it. But I get VERY picky - much more so than the average consumer that they're after, so I can only blame myself.

Now, if Pascal would make us 1/72 F-1's and J-2's in resin, a bunch of us would be happy campers.

apolloprojeckt
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posted 07-28-2012 03:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for apolloprojeckt   Click Here to Email apolloprojeckt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have sent mail to Micheal Key as he maybe also has print program for a 1/72 full batch, he let print out in 3-D many scale F-1 engines from 1/48 to 1/12 and more space items such as shuttle platform and details and Apollo BPC 1/25.

I think the Apollo BPC 1/25 fit also over the Code 3 Apollo capsule, I'm not sure but is that is so it will be a nice set!

sev8n
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From: Dallas TX USA
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posted 07-28-2012 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by divemaster:
They just missed too many small, but obvious, items. The S-IVB thrust structure is making me nuts (along with the lack of the umbilical doors).
They missed some large but obvious items as well. Has no one noticed the oddly shaped SIC engine fairings? In my opinion, they make the base of the rocket look like a toy. At least the S-IVB thrust structure is hidden when assembled.

I received the Apogee decal sheet but haven't had a chance to compare it to the kit's pre-painted markings.

the clocks running
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posted 07-29-2012 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running   Click Here to Email the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sev8n:
Has no one noticed the oddly shaped SIC engine fairings? In my opinion, they make the base of the rocket look like a toy.
I noticed this and completely agree.

I would have preferred purchasing the Saturn V as separate stages for a premium price with outstanding detail as opposed to purchasing the complete model for about $220. Several years ago Dragon issued the CANDO products and the 1/400 scale Saturn V was available as three or four separate products that when purchased completed the entire model.

sev8n
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posted 07-29-2012 08:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Apogee decal sheet:

Comparisons:

Decal pics (outlined in red) superimposed on model pic:

divemaster
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posted 07-29-2012 11:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The problem is, we all get very excited when a new product comes out. Dragon's packaging hides a lot of obvious mistakes — and we only start comparing notes AFTER we've made our purchase.

The F-1 and the J-2 engines are completely off as is the SIVB thrust structure — which is currently driving me crazy. However, most of this is fixable to the modeler with a little bit of talent. However, for a $200 model, you should get what you pay for.

I'd be happy with the umbilicals added, too. I'm going to contact New Ware models in the Czech Republic to see if they can take their photo-etch brass umbilicals in 1/96 scale and upgrade them to 1/72 scale. They have the most detailed umbilicals out there in their Saturn V upgrade. I also would like the BPC (which usually isn't on ANY model) to be removable to see the CM.

But kudos to the Apollo 10 die-cast model. They did a great job on that. One or two minor problems, but a very nice model

I'm also curious as to why they came out with so many of the same model, just different missions. I was impressed that they got the markings right on the Apollo 7 model, but they included a docking probe, which Apollo 7 didn't have.

I would still like to do the entire stack in 1/48. That would be so very impressive — especially on a LUT for a base. It would take up a ton of floor space.

GACspaceguy
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posted 07-30-2012 05:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by divemaster:
I also would like the BPC (which usually isn't on ANY model) to be removable to see the CM.
I have two of these models and with a little twist off came the BPC. I was replacing the top of one with an Apollo 10 and the other is now the Skylab launch vehicle so I was not concerned about trying to take them off.

Underneath one BPC was just the plastic CM in silver only, but it had all the details. On the other it was a full up finished CM without the hand holds. In both cases the marks left on the CM where minimal so a person who is good with paint should have no issues with putting it right.

As far as the detail goes, I think it is great for the price. Sure I wish they had done like Code 3 did years ago and get this forum's input prior to release, but at around $200 you have an impressive model of the only launch vehicle to send Mankind out of the earth's local gravity field. Besides, we are the only ones that will notice these issues. I had a fellow at the house last week, who is an aviator, ask me “so, how much of that rocket went to the moon?" It is safe to say that he never noticed the issues being pointed out here.

divemaster
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posted 07-31-2012 09:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I exchanged a few e-mails with Tomas at New Ware Models in the Czech Republic about the Dragon Saturn. He's probably going to wait until the kit version comes out, but he has plans on producing a "correction" kit for both the built and unbuilt versions. He did it for the Revell 1/96 Saturn - and did a great job... now he'll do the same for the 1/72 Dragon.

His main concern is the engines. He feels that reproducing those correctly will be quite costly. I just begged him for some photo-etch of the umbilical doors. I don't think those will be a problem. But he's taking and making notes.

Jay Chladek
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posted 08-02-2012 03:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, as one possible alternative, Apogee sells the vac engines for their 1/70 Saturn separately, so that might be an alternative to the Dragon ones (and the scales are close enough that the size difference won't really be an issue). But considering the engines on all the Saturn Vs that flew were covered with insulation blankets anyway, doing a few minor shape corrections to the turbopump areas and then covering the thing with foil (obscurring the small details) is likely all one needs to do anyway.

sev8n
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From: Dallas TX USA
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posted 08-02-2012 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Apogee also sells resin fins with the correct "faceted airfoil" shape. I plan on using these to replace the flat, slab-sided ones Dragon supplied.

I have no association with Apogee, just relating my experience/options trying to improve accuracy of the Dragon model.

bicyclezero
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posted 08-03-2012 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bicyclezero   Click Here to Email bicyclezero     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I received my Dragon Saturn V in 1/72 a few days ago. This is a second run model and I see nothing that indicates that corrective measures were taken to address inaccuracies from the first run models.

Just for fun I put both my 1/96 Revell I built in 1985 or so next to the 1/72 Dragon. Here is a picture for comparison.

Just in case anyone is wondering how big it is in comparison. It certainly has better detail in the stock form and is an okay model.

Then when you find out it is only $220 or so you have to say it is an exceptional kit. But you have to wonder how much more would it have cost to make accurate in some basic ways.

model maker
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posted 08-04-2012 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for model maker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice! I see the older 1/96 has yellowed some.

Ronpur
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posted 08-04-2012 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am going to wait, first, I just don't have the room, and second, I would rather build 3 versions of a Saturn V in 1/144th scale instead of one big bird. I did just order the J-mission kit in 1/72 scale.

divemaster
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posted 08-06-2012 12:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
New Ware Models out of the Czech Republic has already come out with a correction kit for the 1/72 CSM. Tomas makes great kits. You may want to take a peek here (at the bottom of the page) if you're interested in the corrections that are currently available. He plans to come out with some more once the kit version is available.

tegwilym
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posted 08-06-2012 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess I'm not the only one with a yellowed Saturn. Mine has turned yellow on the wrap-around stages.

ilbasso
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posted 08-06-2012 07:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I received my 1/72 Saturn V from Flying Mule today. I ordered it several weeks ago but had it on hold until I returned from vacation.

As a scratch-builder, yes, there are many things I could do to improve the model. But on the other hand, it's a beautiful display piece in its own right. It looks great next to my Topping LM and CSM. Those period models remind me that even the "official" models were not totally accurate in many, many respects. If one wants to convey the feel of a BIG launch vehicle, this is a great display piece to WOW the visitors to your home, who won't care if the F-1's are thermally wrapped or not.

FYI, two of the fairings had come off the S-II during shipping, but they were a quick fix with a couple of drops of Super Glue. Otherwise, the model was in great shape.

I'm very happy to have it in my collection!

bicyclezero
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posted 08-08-2012 03:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bicyclezero   Click Here to Email bicyclezero     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sometime in the early nineties I actually contacted Revell and requested replacement parts for my model which they sent out gratis. I got all of the intertank styrene wraps and an extra shroud for the LEM which I then bashed to make a shroud without the window.

They also sent an entire LES, CSM and LEM. It was pretty cool of them to do.

I can't believe it is still intact after all this time. It has been repaired about a dozen times but is mostly intact.

My CSM on the Dragon model was missing a quad. I hate the J-2 engines and the second stage/first stage shroud should separate but does not. Again — it was only $200. Everyone say "thank you China!"

the clocks running
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posted 08-08-2012 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running   Click Here to Email the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ilbasso:
I received my 1/72 Saturn V from Flying Mule today.
It is funny how we all have the same models. I have about 75% of the models in your collection and also own the same Ikea cabinet.

We all love Apollo!

ilbasso
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posted 08-09-2012 08:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This doesn't include the shelf full of unbuilt models out in my storage building!!

the clocks running
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posted 08-09-2012 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running   Click Here to Email the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ilbasso:
This doesn't include the shelf full of unbuilt models out in my storage building!!
Does your collection of unbuilt models include: Tamiya CSM & LM, 3 Aoishima reissue kits, Revell 1/48 Lunar Landing, Dragon's Apollo 10 and Apollo 11 Lunar Approach kits, and most of the Dragon Apollo diecast models.

Just kidding around here but I feel pretty confident that the collectSPACE members are major consumers of most of these products.

sev8n
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posted 08-09-2012 09:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also have a rather jaundiced 1/96 Revell Saturn V, the original issue in the late 60s, as well as the original box.

divemaster
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posted 08-10-2012 01:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I redid my Revell Saturn V and substituted ABS tubing for the styrene sheets, I was amazed at how yellow the styrene parts were. I'd suggest (if you're ever going to build it again - if you can get the kit), to give the styrene parts a couple of coats of white paint so the yellow won't show through. Though you can't do it with the flimsy wraps that they provide, using the ABS tubing is a great way to eliminate that problem.

If you go to my website and take a look at what I did for the wraps, it's a great help. And, if I was going to do it over again, I'd probably make the first, interstage and second stage one piece just for convenience.

However, between the New Ware upgrade kit and the appearance of another upgrade kit from seller north_american_engineering, it's very tempting to work from scratch again.

If I had a spare 1/96 kit, I'd be very tempted - and I'm annoyed that I sold my extras at the moment. I never thought I'd have the desire to rework that model ever again. But between the New Ware and the NA Engineering parts, it's a very tempting kit bash.

bicyclezero
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posted 08-13-2012 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bicyclezero   Click Here to Email bicyclezero     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just received (to my wife's dismay) a Dragon Apollo 11 lunar transit built-up model and the Apollo 10 model from Dragon with the idea of using the transparent LEM shroud on my existing Saturn V build up. I've seen that people have done this successfully. I'll let you know how it goes for me.

The best thing is that I got both the Apollo 10 kit and the built Apollo 11 transit models for under $90 shipped at Hobby Warehouse. I used an online coupon called "best service" or something like that and got 10% off and free shipping.

I could sell the Apollo 10 leftovers on eBay and cut the cost even more.

Apollo 11 built up kit is really nice —  amazing detail for something built on an assembly line that is so small. It really is pretty tiny.


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