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  Dragon Models 1:72 Saturn V rocket model (Page 6)

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Author Topic:   Dragon Models 1:72 Saturn V rocket model
Ironman One
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Posts: 73
From: Ormond Beach, FL USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted 07-29-2014 10:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ironman One   Click Here to Email Ironman One     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had the same problem and used a dab of lubricant in this case Armorall. Worked just fine. Don't use anything that might "attack" the plastic. Also don't use Vaseline.

Docdrew
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Posts: 25
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: Aug 2013

posted 08-02-2014 01:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Docdrew   Click Here to Email Docdrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
After getting the F-1s installed I went about attaching the fins and made sure that they were properly located in relation to the four position numbers on the sides of the first stage. Then I assembled the whole rocket and noticed that the fin positions (i.e. A-D) were in the wrong locations in relation to other external features on the rocket when using my Bandai 1/144 Apollo 11 as a reference.

As an example, the large LOX vent fairing on the second stage should be on the same "side" of the rocket as position number 4 (IIII), which is between fins C and D. But on my Dragon model it is located on the "side" labeled position 2 (II). Since the locations of the external features of the rocket and the position numbers are fixed this creates a problem.

There have been many posts criticizing the inaccuracies of this model but no one ever mentioned the problem that I am describing. So, to summarize, if I correctly position the fins in reference to the position numbers then the fins are incorrectly positioned in reference to the rest of the rocket. Which way would be best — to have the fins properly located in reference to the position numbers or to the rest of the rocket?

I would be interested to know if all of the Dragon (prebuilt) models are like this or if mine is atypical. Thanks.

sev8n
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Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 08-02-2014 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I noticed this problem when I assembled my pre-painted kit but I didn't mention it here, it just seemed like "piling on" with more criticism of the model at the time.

Since mine was the pre-painted version I addressed the problem by cutting new alignment slots in the mating flanges of the stages. IIRC I rotated the SII 180 degrees relative to the SIC. I don't remember if I had to rotate the SIVB - the 4D 1/100 SaturnV has similar "clocking" problems and I don't remember which fixes I did to which model.

There are other rotational alignment issues with the kit as is, I plan to repaint the entire booster when I incorporate other accuracy fixes.

edit: You can't just move the fins/letters because then they won't match the orientation of the center F1 engine relative to the fin letters. You have to rotate the stages relative to each other.

I found pics of the mods I made, hope these help:

SIC before:

SIC after:

SIVB before (marked for cut):

SIVB after:

Docdrew
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: Aug 2013

posted 08-02-2014 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Docdrew   Click Here to Email Docdrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks so much for your reply and the photos. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to do any cutting but I might just give it a try.

Docdrew
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Posts: 25
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: Aug 2013

posted 08-03-2014 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Docdrew   Click Here to Email Docdrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just noticed something concerning the correction for the S-IVB. It would properly align the third stage (e.g. the APS units) in relation to the first and second stages (after correcting the second stage) but then it will not be in proper alignment relative to the paint pattern on the interstage between the second and third stages. This is because Dragon did not attach the interstage correctly — it needs to be rotated to the same degree that you are rotating the S-IVB when you make your correction. Therefore, if Dragon had properly positioned the interstage no correction would have been necessary.

It amazes me how Dragon can produce and build this model without noticing that the second stage is incorrectly rotated 180 degrees and the interstage paint pattern is misaligned relative to the second stage. I think they need to improve their QA process.

sev8n
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Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 08-03-2014 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's one of the other "rotational alignment issues" I alluded to. Rather than risk damaging the interstage by removing it, I plan to repaint it. Since Dragon also failed to provide retro-rocket fairings on the interstage - and Dragon's poor paint masking of the roll pattern - I plan to repaint the interstage (along with the rest of the Saturn booster).

mode1charlie
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Posts: 1176
From: Honolulu, HI
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 08-04-2014 12:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mode1charlie   Click Here to Email mode1charlie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has someone made a comprehensive list of the inaccuracies in the (both pre-built and unbuilt) model? That would be handy.

It would also be quite the ticket if NewWare or RealSpace Models were to offer a PE/resin set to modify the model. I know that NewWare does offer a 1/72 decal set.

sev8n
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Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 08-04-2014 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This PDF contains a description of most (but not all) of the geometry errors, although it does not mention the incorrectly rotated stages discussed above.

Docdrew
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Posts: 25
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Registered: Aug 2013

posted 08-08-2014 09:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Docdrew   Click Here to Email Docdrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now that I've finally finished my minor modifications, and have the beast put together, I'm going to start work on the Detolf display cabinet.

Various posts have talked about modifying the base of either the rocket or the cabinet so the rocket will fit. For those of you have the cabinet I would like to know, if you assemble it with the included base and top, what the exact measurement/distance is on the inside between the base and top.

Presuming that the rocket is too tall to fit, what if you don't use the base that comes with the rocket and, instead, drill a hole in the Detolf base and place the metal rod into the Detolf base. Would that work? Or do you really have to replace the Detolf base with a thinner one? Thanks.

sev8n
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Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 08-08-2014 11:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mine is free-standing in a Detolf case without the kit base or rod. There is maybe 1" between the tip of the LES and the top of the case.

cycleroadie
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Posts: 452
From: Apalachin, NY USA
Registered: May 2011

posted 08-09-2014 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cycleroadie   Click Here to Email cycleroadie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Docdrew:
Or do you really have to replace the Detolf base with a thinner one?
I took a wood plaque from A.C. Moore, painted it, laminated on an Apollo 11 patch image, then drilled a hole and epoxied the metal rod to it, the plaque is juts a little over 1/2" thick, and all together leaves me some room at the top.

rlobinske
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Posts: 154
From: Crawfordville, FL
Registered: Oct 2014

posted 10-17-2014 07:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rlobinske     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I recently started on the kit version and I must say that I am seriously disappointed with it. Dimensional errors, lack of important details, misplacement of parts, and a terrible instruction sheet. To save some of my sanity, I am skipping details inside the interstages since the model will be displayed fully stacked. That avoids fixing the low-quality J-2 engines and thrust plate issues. I just noticed that the communications conduits on the S-I-C stage is in the wrong place. To correct that, the conduits will no longer cover the tank half seams, requiring some additional filling and shaping.

Thanks for letting me vent. I had high hopes and well...

Panther494
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Posts: 416
From: London UK
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 10-17-2014 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Panther494   Click Here to Email Panther494     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You can purchase detail resin replacement parts from Martins Models here in the UK. The items require some cleaning up but they certainly improve this frustrating kit.

AussiePete
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Posts: 104
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Jan 2014

posted 01-10-2015 12:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AussiePete   Click Here to Email AussiePete     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Been a while. Still playing with my Dragon Saturn.

Does anyone have any idea what the color was of the inside of the LEM/Payload shroud?

mikej
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Posts: 481
From: Germantown, WI USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 01-10-2015 07:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mikej   Click Here to Email mikej     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The inside of the SLA was a grey color (I'm not a modeller or an interior designer, so that's as specific as I can get). See this Apollo 7 picture.

The inside of the SLA on the JSC Saturn V is basically the same.

AussiePete
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Posts: 104
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Jan 2014

posted 01-10-2015 11:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AussiePete   Click Here to Email AussiePete     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Mike. Maybe just bare metal?

rlobinske
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Posts: 154
From: Crawfordville, FL
Registered: Oct 2014

posted 01-11-2015 07:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rlobinske     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the Space in Miniature reference on the Apollo CM, the editors report that the early missions had a bare metal interior to the SLA, while later missions with a LM in place had some kind of protective blankets.

Based on my photos of the Instrument Unit at KSC, the interior wall was chromate green mostly covered by various pieces of gray or bare metal equipment.

GACspaceguy
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Posts: 2501
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 01-11-2015 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The SLA panel where the world’s largest bonded aluminum honeycomb sandwich panel at the time. Each of the four panels was larger than the panels being produced for Lockheed’s C-5A aft cargo doors. I only know this because I had worked for Canadair in Montreal in the late 70s and they had built the cargo doors as a sub contract for Lockheed. The fellows that had been around for a while told the story of how they had the record for the largest bonded assemblies until the SLA panels were produced.

All that to say that for that type of construction the skins would be anodized for bonding and corrosion control. That would make it a light grey with a slight green tint from the chromates in the treatment.

AussiePete
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Posts: 104
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Jan 2014

posted 01-11-2015 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AussiePete   Click Here to Email AussiePete     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Might I be right in thinking the SLA that were used prior to carrying the LEM may have just been steel. While those used when the LEM was carried were honeycomb? If so the non LEM were plain steel while the honeycomb were chromate?

Having worked on the P3 for nearly 20 years all underside of honeycomb was chromate.

I tried all weekend to find photos of Apollo 11 shots showing the open SLA. I only found Apollo 7 with the bare metal.

AussiePete
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Posts: 104
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Jan 2014

posted 01-11-2015 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AussiePete   Click Here to Email AussiePete     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, I found details. Seems from what I can gather all SLA were honeycomb with cork insulation on the outside. Internal colour was more likely bare fibre glass over honeycomb giving a greyish colour (opaque fibre glass over aluminium).

How to mimic that on a model? Or just leave it the metal colour I have painted it already?

rlobinske
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Posts: 154
From: Crawfordville, FL
Registered: Oct 2014

posted 01-13-2015 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rlobinske     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Based on that description, Tamiya XF-56 Metallic Gray would be a good match.

rlobinske
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Posts: 154
From: Crawfordville, FL
Registered: Oct 2014

posted 01-13-2015 11:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rlobinske     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looking at some of the Apollo 17 photos of the LM prior to extraction, it looks like at least the lower portion of the SLA had what looks like 2 mil Kapton or something similar lining the interior.

Planetary
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Posts: 24
From: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Registered: May 2013

posted 01-14-2015 08:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Planetary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The SLA at the Saturn V exhibit at KSC in Florida is basically a dummy mockup. The flight SLA's for all Apollo missions was never painted gray on the inside, the rule of thumb for all spacecraft/rocket structures being "if it doesn't need paint to protect from exposure to space, leave it bare metal to save weight."

The description in an earlier post in this thread about the inside being anodized metal is correct, although the metal is heat treated and chem-milled inconel which is slightly darker with a green/brown tint and unpolished flat in nature. Depending on how the light hits a panel in unfiltered sunlight in space, it can looks gray, green/gray bronze or even silverish. The "detail" bonded strips inside each panel (that divide each panel into 9 "sections" and around the two access panel doors is a flat brass/copper color.

There's dozens of really detailed photos of the inside of the panels and inside the lower part of the SLA, Instrument Unit and the SIVB tank dome from Apollo 7 and there are a few photos from Apollo 12 that show a SLA panel drifting off in space that verify the inside of the SLA panels stayed pretty much cosmetically the same. I believe dark gold Kapton was used as a liner around the upper "framework" of the Instrument Unit for Apollo 15 - 17 and the 3 manned Skylab SIVBs.

GACspaceguy
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From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 01-15-2015 08:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I found a couple of diagrams and a photo that may help.

The inside skin is metal for sure, not fiberglass. I think it is not inconel though, as it would not be anodized or chem milled (but if there is data showing so, I would like to see it).

The four strips that make up the sections have that goldish color of alodine and that would be because it is a mechanical "exploding" joint for the panel separation. The bonded strips may have a color variation as it looks like they have some adhesive flow on the edges as they would have been bonded using a film adhesive that would flow out during the bonding process in the autoclave.

Take a look at the attached photo showing the SLA over what appears to be a flight configured LM.

AussiePete
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Posts: 104
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Jan 2014

posted 01-17-2015 03:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AussiePete   Click Here to Email AussiePete     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GACspaceguy:
Take a look at the attached photo showing the SLA over what appears to be a flight configured LM.
Thanks for the help guys.

From the photo there it looks like it may have just got a quick spray of white. Very patchy though. I ended up going with a metal colour.

GACspaceguy
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From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 01-17-2015 04:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It was not white, metal was the way to go.

milkit1
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From: Springfield Illinois USA
Registered: Sep 2015

posted 10-21-2015 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for milkit1   Click Here to Email milkit1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry if this has been covered but I didn't see it in any of these threads. When this arrived, is the rocket in sections that then piece together?

I am thinking of getting this autographed and was wondering if I could just take a section to get signed as opposed to carrying the whole thing around.

cycleroadie
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Posts: 452
From: Apalachin, NY USA
Registered: May 2011

posted 10-22-2015 06:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cycleroadie   Click Here to Email cycleroadie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by milkit1:
When this arrived, is the rocket in sections that then piece together?
Yes, stages are separate.

velocity
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Posts: 41
From: Scotland
Registered: Oct 2017

posted 07-12-2019 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for velocity   Click Here to Email velocity     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is Michael Keys still selling the LUT background kits for the Saturn V 1/72 scale model?

keymichael1855
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Posts: 176
From: Virginia Beach, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 07-12-2019 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for keymichael1855   Click Here to Email keymichael1855     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for asking about the LUT and MLP kit. Yes, I am still selling them! You can either buy from eBay (293116641494) or feel free to contact me directly.

Since you are in Scotland, you'll be better off contacting me directly. The Global Shipping Program is nice for sellers, but the buyers end up paying much more than necessary.

I will look forward to hearing from you!

Space Cadet Carl
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Posts: 215
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 10-31-2019 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Cadet Carl   Click Here to Email Space Cadet Carl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good news! Dragon has announced that the Apollo 11 Saturn V is going to be re-released and it will cost about $140. During the last few years, a couple resin part companies have released aftermarket upgrade kits in an attempt to correct many of the original shortcomings of this kit.

Daugherty54
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From: Cabot, Arkansas, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 10-31-2019 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daugherty54   Click Here to Email Daugherty54     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
is this the prebuilt or the model kit?

Space Cadet Carl
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Posts: 215
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 10-31-2019 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Cadet Carl   Click Here to Email Space Cadet Carl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dragon says it's the unbuilt kit.

crash
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Posts: 321
From: West Sussex, England
Registered: Jan 2011

posted 11-01-2019 02:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for crash   Click Here to Email crash     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can someone confirm that this re-release is not yet available (but clearly imminent)? But if you have found it could you provide a link please?

Kevmac
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Posts: 267
From: College Station, TX
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 11-01-2019 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevmac   Click Here to Email Kevmac     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Space Cadet Carl:
During the last few years, a couple resin part companies have released aftermarket upgrade kits in an attempt to correct many of the original shortcomings of this kit.
Can you please provide links to these kits if they still exist? I tried several years ago to find anything mentioned in this thread earlier and nothing was available. Any leads would be appreciated.

Panther494
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Posts: 416
From: London UK
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 11-02-2019 03:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Panther494   Click Here to Email Panther494     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Martin's Models in the UK provide a large amount of resin replacement for this. Parts tend to need a lot of cleaning up but provide a good starting point.

PeterO
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Posts: 401
From: North Carolina
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 11-02-2019 05:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeterO   Click Here to Email PeterO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On eBay (283656266717) there are resin parts for all stages of the Saturn V. As with Martin's Models parts, these will take considerable work to clean up, and they appear to be rather crude in places.

Insulation batted F-1 engines are also available from RealSpace Models. These are ready to use in place of the kit's engines with just minor cleanup.

PeterO
Member

Posts: 401
From: North Carolina
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 11-02-2019 05:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeterO   Click Here to Email PeterO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by crash:
Can someone confirm that this re-release is not yet available (but clearly imminent)?
I've just checked eBay and a half-dozen Chinese online hobby shops, and none of them have the kit in stock yet. eBay has a few, but their inflated prices indicate that they're the first release from 2013.

Since Dragon is a Chinese company, Hong Kong online shops such as LuckyModel and HobbySearch should be receiving them first.

sev8n
Member

Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 11-24-2019 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hobby Search shows it available now.

cspg
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Posts: 6219
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 02-06-2020 10:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unless I've missed something, Dragon seems to have a strange approach to timing when it comes to re-releasing models. You'd think they would have picked 2019 for a re-release.

The 1:72 is apparently re-released next month for $399.95, according to the Flying Mule website.


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