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  Exhibiting NASA's retired shuttle orbiters (Page 9)

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Author Topic:   Exhibiting NASA's retired shuttle orbiters
328KF
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posted 04-12-2011 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 328KF   Click Here to Email 328KF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was surprised that JSC didn't get one, but can understand the perception issue if NASA "kept" two for themselves. Geographically it would have been nice to have the four spread more evenly across the country (FL, DC, TX, left coast) so I agree that the NYC award makes the least sense.

Perhaps the transportation of Enterprise to NYC was part of the consideration. I have seen here that while it can be flown on the 747 again, the route from JFK to Manhattan might be an issue. Is it possible that it will be flown into EWR and barged from the port nearby. Other locations may not have had reasonable access.

I have not been to the LA museum, so cannot comment on how suitable a place it is, but when one considers the ties to the orbiter construction it makes more sense than Seattle, and tourism numbers are likely much higher.

Dayton was never a good choice in my opinion, and while I feel bad for those involved in trying to get it there, I think some of these interactive exhibits involving the full cabin sims will be equally impressive, especially for the youngsters.

I'm spoiled being in the D.C. area, and have enjoyed seeing Enterprise for the past several years. The transition to Discovery is going to be very exciting, and I look forward to seeing NASM's plans for displaying it. There isn't much that could keep me away from Dulles the day that orbiter flies for the last time.

FullThrottle
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posted 04-12-2011 04:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FullThrottle   Click Here to Email FullThrottle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm actually really disappointed at how this went down... So TWO shuttles are less than 250 miles away from each other (NY and DC). Yet some of us still have to go thousands of miles to even see one.

I realistically didn't expect Seattle to get one, although Enterprise would have been a nice tie-in with Boeing and the 747... Enterprise should have gone to California.

No matter how hard I try I cannot (other than Grumman who is defunct) connect the space shuttle to an aircraft carrier floating in salt water. I can't imagine even with a protective cover that Intrepid could be a safe place to store anything, especially a priceless one of a kind artifact.

CLEARLY POLITICAL and Mr. Bolden has lost a lot of my respect by selecting New York over Houston, seriously doesn't even make sense!

isaacada1
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posted 04-12-2011 04:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for isaacada1   Click Here to Email isaacada1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA just published a press release showing where everything Space Shuttle related is going to what organization.

Full Throttle, why do you believe Enterprise should have gone to California instead of Endeavor?

tegwilym
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posted 04-12-2011 05:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If Seattle lost out to Houston or Dayton, I wouldn't have been so upset about all this. But New York is insulting.

Requirements for the Museum....

...a sufficiently long enough runway on which to land the 747 that will carry the Shuttles to their ultimate destinations.
What runway is that? I guess NY and those who decided consider the Hudson river a runway since Captain Sully landed on it.

Fezman92
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posted 04-12-2011 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tegwilym:
What runway is that?
Their plan I think is to fly it to one of the NYC airports, put it onto a barge (to me, just doesn't sound safe or fitting for a shuttle), float it down the Hudson then move it on land.

Personally, I agree that NYC isn't the best place for it. What they have planned doesn't seem fitting for a shuttle, even if it didn't fly in space. But what is done is done...

canyon42
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posted 04-12-2011 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for canyon42   Click Here to Email canyon42     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've got nothing to say but a disbelieving "wow." I don't know a lot about the California museum, so I can't speak specifically to it, but it wasn't a total surprise that one of the shuttles would go to somewhere out west. I am familiar with the Seattle museum, so that would have been my guess there.

NYC, though, was a major surprise for me. Apparently it was deemed more important for people on the East Coast to have better access to TWO shuttles than for anyone away from a coast to have access to ONE.

I've seen reports that a major tipping factor was that all of the locations will provide easy access for "international visitors." Well, gee, that's nice, but it seems strange for that to outweigh access for U.S. citizens.

Even considering that the Midwest is used to being dumped on, this is a kick in the teeth.

GoesTo11
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posted 04-12-2011 05:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by canyon42:
NYC, Apparently it was deemed more important for people on the East Coast to have better access to TWO shuttles than for anyone away from a coast to have access to ONE.
DC is about, what, an hour's train ride south from Manhattan? You'd spend longer than that in New York traffic trying to get to the Intrepid.
quote:
I've seen reports that a major tipping factor was that all of the locations will provide easy access for "international visitors."
Especially since we paid for them.

NYC makes less and less sense the more I think about it. Call me a cynic, but does anyone else detect the rank odor of politics here?

alanh_7
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posted 04-12-2011 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for alanh_7   Click Here to Email alanh_7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would have liked to have seen Enterprise end up at the Dryden Research Center, since the ALT tests were conducted at Edwards. But I understand the reasoning. More people will visit New York than Edwards.

For selfish reasons I would have liked to see one of the shuttles end up at the U.S Air Force Museum, a seven hour drive from my home.

In my opinion the Smithsonian and KSC were perfect choices.

Ben
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posted 04-12-2011 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ben   Click Here to Email Ben     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tegwilym:
...a sufficiently long enough runway on which to land the 747 that will carry the Shuttles to their ultimate destinations.
What runway is that?
There is no issue with NYC. It is pier to pier (sliding right past the house I grew up in) from JFK to the Intrepid, and that is how the Concorde on display was taken there.

I think many don't realize that JFK and New York City are on the ocean (Jamaica Bay, specifically, for the airport).

The only transportation challenge is Los Angeles.

Jay Chladek
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posted 04-12-2011 06:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, in terms of what location got an orbiter, I think a contract stipulation and inspections should be put into place so that if a selected facility can't properly host an orbiter when they are ready to arrive, then a decision might be put fourth to move them elsewhere. Specifically I am referring to Intrepid. Part of what made me hesitate when I heard NYC was bidding was the fact that the Concorde they got a few years ago had its nose knocked off by a careless delivery driver who made a wrong turn. How easy would it be for a similar driver to knock a hole in Intrepid's planned greenhouse intended to house an orbiter?

The shuttles to me are more national treasures then many other space artifacts out there. Even the pathfinder bird that didn't get to fly in orbit is just as deserving of a good home as her more famous sisters. Somebody needs to keep their feet to the fire so that when the fanfare dies down, they continue to take care of it. I believe Intrepid can take care of the bird, but they can't do it like they've done it with other planes in the past.

Ben
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posted 04-12-2011 07:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ben   Click Here to Email Ben     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
Specifically I am referring to Intrepid. Part of what made me hesitate when I heard NYC was bidding was the fact that the Concorde they got a few years ago had its nose knocked off by a careless delivery driver who made a wrong turn.

Well, the Concorde had been moved to Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn, in a rather unprotected area, during the time that incident occurred. That neglect, which occurred during the two-year period in which the Intrepid was hauled to NJ to be completely refurbished, was uncalled for and certainly would not happen again I'm sure.

Hopefully, the Concorde will also be placed in the new museum.

drjeffbang
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posted 04-12-2011 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for drjeffbang   Click Here to Email drjeffbang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 328KF:
There isn't much that could keep me away from Dulles the day that orbiter flies for the last time.
We, too, were very excited to learn that Discovery will be coming to NoVa!

Will the general public be able to view it when it flies in? If so, we will be there!

328KF
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posted 04-12-2011 07:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 328KF   Click Here to Email 328KF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by drjeffbang:
Will the general public be able to view it when it flies in? If so, we will be there!
I am sure the museum will make the most of the arrival of Discovery and that it will be open to the public to the extent possible. I was there when Steve Fossett flew the Global Flyer in and we stood out in front of the museum while he made several passes down the runway for photos.

My guess is that the museum will want some photos taken of the orbiter/747 inflight with the museum in the background, so a few passes down Runway 1R will be in order!

Once it is on the ground though, all bets are off. It will be up to the museum to work out if and how they can have the public out on the ramp area with security considerations for the airport itself taken into account. Undoubtedly, this will involve those three dreaded letters...T-S-A.

astrobar1
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posted 04-12-2011 08:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for astrobar1   Click Here to Email astrobar1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, three East Coast, one West Coast. So much for the Heartland. Never mind Houston, Denver, Chicago. You never had anything to do with the shuttle. Oops, my bad. Charlie, shame on you...

Murph
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posted 04-12-2011 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Murph   Click Here to Email Murph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Reading some of today's quotes on this board about Intrepid... what a load of sour grapes.

Make your case, that you should have gotten one? No.

Try to make a case that someone else should not have gotten theirs... yes.

Make up problems that may not even exist. Yes.

That's whats going on here. Bad sports... sour grapes... bitter recriminations. What good does it do? That's what children do when they lose. Suck it up.

Ben
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posted 04-12-2011 08:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ben   Click Here to Email Ben     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Everyone is so certain that JSC was snubbed. No one is speculating that perhaps, maybe, they couldn't fund it?... I'm only speculating myself, but all this political nonsense is sounding ridiculous.

As for Chicago...and Denver? The heartland has less connection than NY if you want to take that route, however small.

I'm not saying I completely agree with the decisions, as I myself felt JSC was the one deserving overall, but perhaps money is involved...just something to think about.

Greggy_D
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posted 04-12-2011 08:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greggy_D   Click Here to Email Greggy_D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Murph:
That's whats going on here. Bad sports... sour grapes... bitter recriminations.
Maybe some board members are calling it as they see it.

Fezman92
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posted 04-12-2011 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm speaking for myself here. To me, having NYC get a shuttle, just seems a bit odd. I think that it is a bit odd, because when I think of NYC, I don't think of a space shuttle.

I also think that JSC should have gotten one and that it does seem like that the mid-west got snubbed, but what's done is done and nothing can be changed so I'll do my best not to complain.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 04-12-2011 09:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not replying as a resident of the area, but as to what NY and the Intrepid have to do with the shuttle program, well, what does England have to do with Apollo 10? Or Paris and Apollo 13?

Unfortunately, there are only three spaceflight orbiters and one prototype. There aren't the score and then some capsules from Mercury, Gemini and Apollo/Skylab/ASTP.

Up until 13.00 EDT, almost no one wanted Enterprise, preferring a space-flown shuttle. Now people are complaining about who got what, especially the decision awarding Enterprise to the Intrepid. Maybe its time that a museum without a space artifact get a chance at showcasing the space program.

tegwilym
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posted 04-12-2011 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ben:
I'm not saying I completely agree with the decisions, as I myself felt JSC was the one deserving overall, but perhaps money is involved... just something to think about.
I agree with Ben. Sure, I'm bummed about Seattle, but I would have expected JSC would have gotten it (midwest also) if not us. That would have made sense.

fredtrav
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posted 04-12-2011 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fredtrav   Click Here to Email fredtrav     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While most of the museums wanted a space flown shuttle, I am sure they would have been happy with the Enterprise. The Enterprise should have gone somewhere in the mid-west/south west. Lining up three of four down the east coast is not right. Three on one coast and 1 on the left coast and none in the middle. Makes no sense.

canyon42
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posted 04-12-2011 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for canyon42   Click Here to Email canyon42     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice approach, Murph. Call those who disagree with the decision "children."

Personally, I have nothing at all specifically against the Intrepid museum EXCEPT that it is so close to Washington (relatively speaking). As far as I'm concerned, once the Smithsonian was considered an automatic choice, then nowhere else within a travel time of less than six or so hours should have even been considered.

You want specifics on why a site SHOULD have been chosen? Fine. For the Museum of the Air Force, I'll cite these without even getting into the Air Force's involvement with the space program:

  1. It has higher attendance than the Udvar-Hazy center (as of 2007, latest attendance figures I could find online). Can't say about the other three spots, because I couldn't locate reliable figures for them.

  2. It is FREE -- free admission, AND free parking. Udvar-Hazy is free, but with a $15 parking fee. Intrepid is over 20 bucks per adult, and heaven only knows what it costs to park somewhere in the region. We all know the costs involved with KSC. It looks as though general admission is free to the LA site, but with a parking fee (feel free to correct any of that if you have better info).

  3. The AF museum is nowhere near anywhere else that will have a shuttle -- again, my one and only beef with the Intrepid Museum. This decision basically says that if you live in Chicago, or Indianapolis, or Cincinnati, or Cleveland, or St. Louis, or Columbus, well, you having access doesn't matter as much as the East Coast, which needs THREE shuttles somehow, two of them in close proximity.

  4. At the AF museum, a shuttle would be a major draw in and of itself. Some might disagree, but I firmly believe that in NYC, LA, and Florida, after a time the shuttles will each just be one more thing lost amid a thousand other "tourist attractions."
I hope the Intrepid museum takes good care of Enterprise. Congratulations to them on being selected. I certainly don't blame them for pursuing it, but I also think I can strongly disagree with the decision without being a "child," thank you.

Murph
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posted 04-12-2011 09:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Murph   Click Here to Email Murph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn't call anyone children.

I am a big fan of the USAF Museum, being a USAF veteran myself. But I knew NASA would never give them one, I thought it was obvious. It would be just another aircraft there, lumped into the collection with the rest. Not special, not a standout. And too much bad blood.

I do believe there should have been one more accessible to the center of the country.

I enjoyed your argument.

dabolton
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posted 04-12-2011 09:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dabolton   Click Here to Email dabolton     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What happens to the full sized model already at KSC visitor center?

GoesTo11
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posted 04-12-2011 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My only real problem with a shuttle in NYC is its geographical proximity to DC. This whole thing just seems really unbalanced, especially when NMUSAF and Seattle were the only contenders besides NASM with appropriate facilities actually funded and past the proposal stage.

If anything, I have a bigger issue with LA. Did they really pull this off without even making their plans for transporting, installing and displaying an orbiter available for public consumption?

Calling politics on this isn't "sour grapes" ...at least not from me. I live in Denver, so it was a given that I'd have a 1,000 plus mile trip to see a Shuttle no matter who the winners were. No agenda here, just calling it like I see it.

Murph
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posted 04-12-2011 10:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Murph   Click Here to Email Murph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Politics... I think every single politician in each state called, wrote or badgered NASA, so I don't know how it was politics, one side over another. Yes, it does seem unbalanced. But attacking the Intrepid will not fix that.

It was Charlie's decision.

I didn't think much about LA, never heard of that museum, but I hope they do a great job.

tegwilym
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posted 04-12-2011 10:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not knowing about the LA museum I looked up the location. This again brings up the question about the "nearby runway." So they plan on hauling it through LA on a truck from LAX?

The requirements for a shuttle sure weren't observed in the choices.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-12-2011 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA Johnson Space Center release
Statement From Johnson Space Center Director Concerning Announcement of Space Shuttle Orbiter Display Locations

NASA Johnson Space Center (JSC) Director Michael L. Coats made the following comments today concerning the announcement that facilities in Washington, Los Angeles, New York and Cape Canaveral, Fla., will be the permanent homes of the space shuttle orbiters following their retirement:

"The NASA administrator had a difficult decision to make and evaluated the numerous proposals against several criteria, including geographic distribution," Coats said. "Although the orbiters were built in California and launched in Florida, I am personally disappointed that the Houston area was not awarded one of the space shuttle orbiters. Houston had a strong case: the Space Shuttle Program has been located here at JSC since its inception, the astronauts live and train here, and of course all the shuttle missions have been controlled from our Mission Control Center."

"Regardless of today’s outcome, JSC -- along with our partners at Space Center Houston -- will continue to share the excitement of human spaceflight for decades to come."

Jay Chladek
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posted 04-13-2011 01:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually, two of the museums did want Enterprise as their first choice. Alabama Space and Rocket Center wanted it so they could say they had the pathfinder vehicles of both the Saturn V and the Shuttle. While technically Alabama has a shuttle stack named "Pathfinder", that vehicle was just a fit check mockup built at KSC and modified to look more like a flight orbiter when its use as a fit check were over. Alabama is unique though in that it still has the ONLY stacked shuttle on an ET and SRBs on display that I know of.

Seattle was also wanting Enterprise as its first choice since it had a close connection with the 747. Of course, I imagine in the bids they attempted to get one of the flight orbiters, but they were likely banking on Enterprise as a consolation prize. It is a pity they didn't end up with it.

isaacada1
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posted 04-13-2011 01:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for isaacada1   Click Here to Email isaacada1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's a good round up of the disappointment from various organizations across the USA by Space Politics.

Jay, what is your source for the Museum of Flight of wanting Enterprise? Was it in a newsletter? Do you have a quote from Bonnie Dunbar? I don't recall the museum going after a specific shuttle in any of their promotional materials.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 04-13-2011 06:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tegwilym:
Not knowing about the LA museum I looked up the location. This again brings up the question about the "nearby runway." So they plan on hauling it through LA on a truck from LAX?

Just to lighten things up: The only practical way to bring Enterprise to Intrepid is by barge. So maybe they'll get Capt. Sully to land Enterprise on the Intrepid.

canyon42
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posted 04-13-2011 06:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for canyon42   Click Here to Email canyon42     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the reply, Murph. My apologies if things got a little testy--I was seeing an "A equals B and B equals C, so A equals C" connection in your original post. I'll take your word for it that it was not intended that way.

I thought your comment that at the AF Museum a shuttle would be just another craft, not a "standout," was interesting. That is essentially one of my thoughts regarding all three of the East Coast sites. For the Midwest, I think a shuttle would actually be a destination for some, and draw some folks to the museum who might not otherwise have come. I have a hard time imagining that very many people who were not already visiting (outside of us "hardcore" folks) will be making special trips to Florida, NYC, or Washington just because of the shuttle. We shall see, I suppose.

I am curious what you meant exactly by "bad blood." Were you referring to a Navy/Air Force rivalry there (yes, Bolden is a former Marine, but he was graduated from the Naval Academy, I believe), or did you mean that in a political sense?

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 04-13-2011 07:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
DC is about, what, an hour's train ride south from Manhattan? You'd spend longer than that in New York traffic trying to get to the Intrepid.

Longer than an hour. An hour's train ride would put it literally in my backyard in NJ. Which, on second thought, would not be a bad idea.

Using Acela, which is the fastest train, it's just 15 minutes shy of three hours. Regular Amtrak can take up to an hour more.

Fezman92
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posted 04-13-2011 08:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
An hour's train ride would put it literally in my backyard (NJ).
Same here. NYC is, depending on traffic a two hours - two and a half hours. DC is three hours or so from me.

kr4mula
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posted 04-13-2011 08:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by canyon42:
I have a hard time imagining that very many people who were not already visiting (outside of us "hardcore" folks) will be making special trips to Florida, NYC, or Washington just because of the shuttle. We shall see, I suppose.

I am curious what you meant exactly by "bad blood." Were you referring to a Navy/Air Force rivalry there (yes, Bolden is a former Marine, but he was graduated from the Naval Academy, I believe), or did you mean that in a political sense?


A couple of comments on these two points. Or, in some opinions, my sour grapes...

I think you've hit the nail on the head about the visitors. How many people will make a trip to NY or LA specifically to see one of the shuttles? Aside from the space fanatics, I'm guessing that it won't be many. As a result, I don't think you'll see overall tourism in NYC or LA go up at all. In both cases, I wonder how much either museum will see a bump in tourism. Both cities are already saturated with tourist destinations, meaning that even with a large number of visitors, those numbers are diluted because of everything else there is to see and do.

I'm from NY and love the city, so I have nothing against it, but there are some legitimate questions about this selection. Geography is the biggest one, in my opinion. As Ohio's senator put it, the "geographic diversity consists of which exit off I-95 you use." 200ish miles from another orbiter, in another city that has just as many foreign visitors? Clearly size, not relevance, was the sole criteria here. I've never been to the Intrepid Museum, so I can't knowledgeably comment on it.

As for LA, the geography at least makes a bit of sense: the orbiters were mostly built nearby, the region has an undeniable connection to the aerospace industry, the proximity of Edwards, and the desirability of a West Coast location (Seattle works, too!). My issue is the choice of venue. How many of us have even heard of this museum, much less visited it? And many of us are fairly knowledgeable about these things. When their website mentions that the aerospace building/wing/display is closed due to weather-related issues (i.e. a leaky building damaging its displays), it is hard to imagine that as an appropriate home to one of the rarest of all space artifacts. I can't imagine the Smithsonian, for example, even choosing to send a historically significant aircraft (of any sort) there because of that issue alone. If you look at their collection, it is decidedly middling at best. Regional museums in much smaller cities have more significant collections than they do. If someone goes to see Endeavour, what else will they see there? Not much. I was wondering if they teamed up with the Palmdale group or something. Can anyone shed light on this?

In interest of fairness, Dayton had its issues, again mainly geography. I think we lost because Dayton is a third-rate city with a first-rate museum. The NMUSAF would have been a no-brainer if it was located in a major city like Chicago, or perhaps even Columbus or Indianapolis. No one comes here unless they have a specific reason. However, for 1.3 million people last year, that reason was the Air Force Museum. Conservative estimates put that number at 2 million+ if we got a shuttle. Will the LA or Intrepid Museums see those numbers? In the end, it doesn't matter how many people visit the cities the orbiter is in. What matters is how many people actually go see the shuttles. And, as an American tax payer, I think we should worry about showcasing them to those of us who paid for them and will pay for future NASA programs, not to international visitors.

So in the end, it seems that putting them in big cities is all that really mattered. That sucks for any of us that don't live within a few miles of an ocean. As an aside, Bolden couldn't help but send one to at least one NASA facility and KSC was the obvious choice (as much as I love Houston when I worked for JSC). Congrats to them, and to the others.

As for the "bad blood," I'm assuming he meant between the Air Force and NASA. As some of us discussed a few pages back, that relationship has always been rocky and the shuttle's history is perhaps the shining example of that. My opinion then, and now, is that that story makes for some great history to tell instead of just celebrating what a cool machine the shuttle is.

One final question: are there contingencies for what happens if one of the recipients can't come up with the funds or facility to pay for and house the orbiter? Just curious.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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Posts: 2356
From: Toms River, NJ,USA
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posted 04-13-2011 08:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Richard Truly was assigned to the Intrepid... so there's your Enterprise-goes-to-Intrepid link....

pokey
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From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 04-13-2011 08:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pokey   Click Here to Email pokey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
?

Robert Pearlman
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Posts: 28697
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-13-2011 09:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good catch Hart!

Truly's first tour of duty after becoming a Naval Aviator was flying F-8 Crusaders from aboard the USS Intrepid. Nearly two decades later, of course, he served as pilot for three approach and landing tests onboard space shuttle Enterprise.

FullThrottle
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Posts: 91
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 04-13-2011 09:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FullThrottle   Click Here to Email FullThrottle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by isaacada1:
Full Throttle, why do you believe Enterprise should have gone to California instead of Endeavor?
My thinking was that Enterprise was only flown on missions over California at Edwards AFB. Never saw a test flight on the East Coast or even around Florida.

The "sour grapes" comment is a stretch considering that there are TWO shuttles within 250 miles from each other. I did some mapquesting and there are spots in the USA where you'd have to go well over 1500 miles to see an orbiter.

Now, for me personally, a FLOWN orbiter going to L.A. means that I'm more likely to get to see it. Yet I still don't see the light as to why its going there.

I thought Texas was a shoe-in for a shuttle, considering that other than Florida they had more to do with the Shuttle program than anywhere else...

I keep replaying that old BBQ sauce commercial in my head with the cowboys sitting around the fire, one of them hands the generic BBQ over... "NEW YORK CITY?!"

Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member

Posts: 2356
From: Toms River, NJ,USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 04-13-2011 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, the shuttle's wings, elevons and main landing gear doors were made in Nu Yawk, and Caldwell, NJ-based Curtiss Wright made the payload bay door power drive unit, rotary actuators, drive shafts, torque tubes and couplings, radiator deploy/latch actuator and latch mechanism for the payload bay doors, and Fairchild Republic in Farmingdale (also NY) was the contractor for the vertical tail and rudder/speed brake... and without them, there'd be no shuttle.

As well, the NY ANG unit 106th Rescue Wing is on standby during shuttle launches. Just saying.


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