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  Exhibiting NASA's retired shuttle orbiters (Page 5)

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Author Topic:   Exhibiting NASA's retired shuttle orbiters
MrSpace86
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From: Gardner, KS, USA
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posted 06-07-2010 12:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrSpace86   Click Here to Email MrSpace86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ha, I knew I wasn't the only one that thought JSC and KSC would be the logical choices for Orbiters. I would join the campaign if I could!!

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-08-2010 08:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kr4mula:
I could imagine a museum creating a setup where you could get into the cargo bay.
As I was recently reminded, there are American Disability Act (ADA) requirements that would make such a set-up a costly proposition. Ramps (meeting tight guidelines) would likely need to replace stairs and an elevator/lift would need to be provided, increasing the amount of support structure obscuring the view of the orbiter itself.

Even a walkway over an open payload bay might prove logistically-troublesome. You wouldn't want a scenario where kids could accidentally drop (or purposely throw) items into the payload bay.

I'm saying it couldn't be done, but it may be why all the designs I've seen thus far for orbiter displays have the payload bay doors closed.

ilbasso
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posted 06-08-2010 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know it's impractical for many reasons, but I would love to see a Shuttle stack exhibited in the VAB.

MrSpace86
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posted 06-08-2010 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrSpace86   Click Here to Email MrSpace86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think that how the National Air and Space Museum has Enterprise displayed is the best way to display an orbiter. It is the centerpiece of that area of the museum and it has stairs on the far corners so you can get a good view of the top of the wings and part of the cargo bay doors. The stair are far enough away so no one jumps onto the wings and such. The orbiter is also on the ground at eye level which makes taking pictures an awesome experience.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 06-08-2010 10:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
As I was recently reminded, there are American Disability Act (ADA) requirements that would make such a set-up a costly proposition. Ramps (meeting tight guidelines) would likely need to replace stairs and an elevator/lift would need to be provided, increasing the amount of support structure obscuring the view of the orbiter itself.
Next time anyone's at the Cradle of Aviation Museum in Garden City, NY, wander over to where they have the front half of a Boeing 707. They put in an elevator next to the stairs. I can imagine the difficulty in putting an elevator next an orbiter.

But neither the Concorde nor the USS Growler at the Intrepid Sea-Air-Space Museum are wheelchair accessible. Both would be impossible without drastically altering the structure of either.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-09-2010 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Space Center Houston launches website to support bid for a retired space shuttle

NASA will be retiring its fleet of space shuttles within the next year. Once NASA completes its last shuttle mission, these three Orbiters will be decommissioned and placed on permanent display at selected museums or science centers across the United States. The competition is stiff. We know that one will go to the National Air and Space Museum's Udvar Hazy Center thereby leaving only two vehicles for the more than 15 locations, including Space Center Houston, that are vying for an Orbiter.

Time is of the essence; your help influencing key decision makers is immediately needed. You can support Space Center Houston's acquisition initiative by visiting bringtheshuttlehome.com. Here, you can send a letter to your congressmen, senators and President Barack Obama urging them to select Space Center Houston to receive a retired Space Shuttle. Let them know, the right home for one of these orbiters is the very epicenter of human spaceflight - Houston, Texas.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-13-2010 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tulsa World: Tulsa to NASA: Come in, please
The Tulsa Air and Space Museum is continuing its fundraising efforts in hopes of landing a retiring space shuttle.

The museum has raised nearly $100,000 since NASA announced in December 2008 that three NASA shuttles were headed for retirement.

Tulsa is one of 21 cities competing for the shuttles. One, the Discovery, has been granted to the Smithsonian Institution, already home to the Enterprise shuttle.

If the Smithsonian is given a second shuttle, the Enterprise possibly would move to another city, said Jim Bridenstine, executive director of Tulsa Air and Space Museum.

The Enterprise came to Tulsa in 1979 as a reward for the effect the city has had on space shuttles, such as building bay doors on all of the space shuttles, Bridenstine said.

The first 747 shuttle carrier aircraft was also modified at the American Airlines Maintenance Base in Tulsa.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-20-2010 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Add the Brazos Valley Museum of Natural History to the list of the interested parties...

Texas A&M Battalion: Museum works to get shuttle

The Brazos Valley Museum of Natural History is working to bring one of NASA’s retired space shuttles to the area. Project Director Zach Cummings started the petition to bring the shuttle to the Brazos Valley, one of two locations being considered in state.

“The Brazos Valley Museum of Natural History is involved in a campaign to bring one of the retired shuttle orbiters to the Brazos Valley,” said Deborah Cowman, executive director of the Brazos Valley Museum of Natural History. “The Museum’s dream is to display the magnificent shuttle in a new Museum of Science and History.”

kr4mula
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posted 07-20-2010 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Isn't NASA running out of time on this? They've said for quite a while now that an announcement would be this July. I'm sure they've hedged the date a bit, but has anyone heard whether or not they intend to make some sort of decision in the next week or so?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-20-2010 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
After STS-132 landed, NASA revised the July date and said that the announcement would be made this summer.

Since then, the NASA Authorization Act of 2010 has been introduced, which includes language directing how the disposition of the orbiters should be decided.

It may be that NASA will wait until that bill passes to make the announcement, as it may not want to be seen as circumventing Congress. The act also potentially extends the space shuttle program by at least one flight, which would alter the availability of at least one of the orbiters, a detail likely necessary before entering into an agreement with a chosen recipient.

kr4mula
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posted 07-21-2010 10:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, Robert. As they say here in the military, "Hurry up and wait!"

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-21-2010 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
National Aviation Heritage Alliance release
Florida, Texas trying end-run for space shuttle

Florida and Texas are trying to make an end run around NASA's competitive process to decide where to give the retired space shuttles by getting Congress to weigh the decision in their favor.

After an unsuccessful legislative attempt to force NASA to give a space shuttle orbiter to the Johnson Space Center in Houston and the Kennedy Space Center near Titusville (See the Human Space Flight Capability Assurance and Enhancement Act of 2010 S. 3068/H.R. 4804), the delegation has come up with a more subtle approach -- and so far, more successful.

Tucked into the NASA reauthorization bill that Congress is now taking up is a provision which directs NASA to give "priority consideration" to a site with a historical relationship with "either the launch, flight operations, or processing of the Space Shuttle orbiters."

This very narrow direction favors the Florida and Texas sites, and ignores the other contributions that were made by individuals, organizations and communities across the nation. It was this total effort that has allowed the shuttle to fly successfully for the past three decades.

Jay Chladek
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posted 07-21-2010 04:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very sneaky! It could work, but it could cause a backlash against other things in the bill trying to get passed. Plus, other Congressional parties might try to stick other language in there to circumvent this and tip the balance in their favor.

KSCartist
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posted 07-21-2010 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No one wants to see an orbiter stay at KSC more than I do - but these politicians efforts are going to blow up in their face. We don't want or need and "end-run". KSC has many reasons why they deserve this but this is not one of them.

My vote is as follows:

  • Discovery - Smithsonian at Dulles Airport
  • Atlantis - at US Air Force Museum in Dayton
  • Endeavour - at KSC
  • Enterprise - west coast: Palmdale or Washington State.

dfox
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posted 07-21-2010 09:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dfox   Click Here to Email dfox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why don't they just sell them on eBay like everybody else?

GACspaceguy
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posted 07-22-2010 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KSCartist:
Atlantis - at US Air Force Museum in Dayton
Tim, I understand that this is a wonderful museum and that the Apollo 15 CM is on display there (full Air Force crew) but, help me understand your rational that puts a civilian vehicle, flown by numerous different crews, ending up in an Air Force museum?

MrSpace86
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posted 07-22-2010 10:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrSpace86   Click Here to Email MrSpace86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I still don't understand why people oppose a Shuttle being retired at JSC and the other at KSC. Those are probably the most visited NASA centers in the country while I agree with Robert that it was a combined effort, those two centers deserve a Shuttle more than anyone else. I think a KSC Saturn V type facility should be built for these orbiters (wherever they go). Not just displayed in some corner of an aerospace museum. I mean, they are SPACECRAFT after all.

nasamad
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posted 07-22-2010 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nasamad   Click Here to Email nasamad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I still think they should display at least one orbiter in a stack with SRBs and ET to hang off.

As the centrepiece to a museum with different floors winding its way around the stack that would be awesome, and KSC is the place to do it, opposite the Saturn V centre near the shuttle runway.

kr4mula
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posted 07-22-2010 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GACspaceguy:
...help me understand your rational that puts a civilian vehicle, flown by numerous different crews, ending up in an Air Force museum?
I've been pretty clear in my posts that I'm an advocate of the Air Force getting a shuttle, in no small part because it's near me.

To answer MrSpace86's comment first, I suspect it's not that people oppose the shuttle going to KSC and JSC, it's just that they prefer it to go wherever is near them. You won't find a lot of Houston or the Cape-area residents opposing those sites. Just like we usually root for our home sports teams, right?

But to get to some specifics on the question at hand...

While Air Force astronauts were certainly a significant part of the program, I don't think that's a major rationale for the National Museum of the US Air Force (NMUSAF). Some considerations:

  • Air Force hypersonics and lifting body studies during the 1960s made a major contribution to the understanding of the flight envelope of the orbiter and the handling characteristics. They also very much informed the ultimate shape of the orbiter (aside from the payload bay) from those studies, done primarily through the Flight Dynamics Lab at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (where the NMUSAF is located).

    In fact, the orbiter looks much more like those designs than it did the NASA MSC in-house proposals (as much as I love Max Faget).

  • Air Force/NSA requirements for the payload bay size and cross range dictated the size of the orbiter and gave it its wings.

  • Of course, the Air Force was going to have its own shuttle (more or less) and launching facility at Vandenburg prior to 51-L.

  • The number of dedicated DoD missions flown made up a significant portion of the early shuttle program, before such missions were ruled out in the post-Challenger era.

  • And most significantly, if the Air Force had not agreed to use and support the shuttle, it was clear to NASA that they would never get the funding to build a shuttle at all. That's why they had to get the AF to agree to abandon unmanned launch vehicles in favor of the shuttle. Yes, it's a "civilian vehicle," but realistically, no Air Force = no shuttle.

  • As for the museum itself, it gets something like 1.5 million visitors per year, making it the second most visited aviation museum in the country (in the world? I can't remember exactly what they say).

  • There is some logic to the geographical dispersion of the orbiters. Placing them at NASM, KSC, and JSC effectively puts them all in the southeast.
I'm sure a museum employee would be happy to tell you much, much, more, and if you go back through the thread and read some of the posts about the museum and especially the newspaper article links, you'll get a better idea of what their arguments are.

tegwilym
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posted 07-22-2010 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nope, I don't want Enterprise in Seattle. We need a flown shuttle!

Now go sign the petition to help Dr. Bonnie Dunbar get one of them here.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-22-2010 06:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
National Aviation Heritage Alliance release
House Committee supports full competition on shuttle decision

Ohio and Oregon members of a key House science panel today successfully fought off an attempt by lawmakers from Florida and Texas to restrict NASA's ability to choose the best locations for its soon-to-be-retired space shuttles.

The House Committee on Science and Technology approved an amendment offered by committee members Representatives Marcia L. Fudge and Charles A. Wilson from Ohio and David Wu of Oregon that ensures a competitive process for determining where the space shuttles will be exhibited.

The amendment replaced language that would have given priority consideration to Texas and Florida sites. NASA will continue to be responsible for evaluating a number of sites from around the country, including the National Museum of the United States Air Force in Ohio, that have expressed an interest in the shuttles.

Officials from the National Aviation Heritage Alliance in Dayton, Ohio, and the Dayton Development Coalition were pleased to see the coordinated effort made by the entire Ohio delegation in getting the amendment approved. Representative Mike Turner has provided the local leadership with the delegation on the shuttle issue and assisted Representatives Fudge and Wilson to advocate for the full and open competition for a shuttle.

John Bosch, chair of the National Aviation Heritage Alliance responded to the vote by saying, "Democracy works. With the help of the entire delegation it was possible to have the amendment pass and ensure that a decision will be made that reflects the entire contributions of the nation to the shuttle program and not just those of two states. We recognize this remains a very competitive process and that's how it should be until a final decision is made by NASA."

Jim Leftwich, President and CEO of the Dayton Development Coalition said, "Our whole Ohio Congressional delegation and the Governor, working with the Coalition, NAHA and the Air Force Museum Foundation, pulled together like a championship team to make this happen."

A full vote by the House on the bill remains. The Senate NASA bill contains a provision similar to the language removed in the House version.

KSCartist
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posted 07-22-2010 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GACspaceguy:
...help me understand your rational that puts a civilian vehicle, flown by numerous different crews, ending up in an Air Force museum?
My justification is that Atlantis flew its first mission for the DoD and the shuttle was developed in large part because of the USAF (for better or worse).

Just my two cents for what it is worth.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 08-02-2010 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
collectSPACE:
NASA delays deciding where retired space shuttles will be displayed

NASA waved off last month revealing where its soon-to-be-retired space shuttles will be making their final landing for public exhibit.

Delayed launch dates, coupled with congressional acts -- including bills proposing adding at least one more mission to the two remaining for the 30-year shuttle program -- resulted in the space agency postponing its selection of museums where its winged orbiters will go on display. A July announcement had been expected since January of this year, when NASA made a last call for suitors.

"They haven't established a new date," NASA spokesman Mike Curie told collectSPACE. "Because of delays to the manifest, shifting STS-133 to November and STS-134 to February, the announcement was also delayed."

Continue reading to learn where Johnson Space Center's space shuttle simulators are headed... also: How to display a retired orbiter photo gallery, now updated!

tegwilym
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posted 08-02-2010 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I expected the delay with the possible Atlantis flight next summer. Still hoping Seattle has a chance.

RocketmanRob
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posted 08-06-2010 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RocketmanRob   Click Here to Email RocketmanRob     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting to see all of these politicians fighting to get a retired Space Shuttle (my vote is for the Intrepid Museum in NYC - yes I am biased). Think of the outcome if they fought in the same way to increase funding for NASA's current missions... just a thought.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-29-2010 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Space Needle in Seattle, Washington today is flying a flag in support of The Museum of Flight receiving a retired space shuttle.


Credit: The Museum of Flight

More details and a photo gallery from the Seattle Post Intelligencer.

kr4mula
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posted 09-30-2010 11:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Senate version of the NASA authorization bill was passed by the House of Representatives on Wednesday night. The language contains the following section concerning the retired shuttles (which doesn't bode well for some locations vying for an orbiter, but is at least more inclusive than that originally proposed):
Sec. 603. Disposition Of Orbiter Vehicles.

(a) In General- Upon the termination of the Space Shuttle program as provided in section 602, the Administrator shall decommission any remaining Space Shuttle orbiter vehicles according to established safety and historic preservation procedures prior to their designation as surplus government property. The orbiter vehicles shall be made available and located for display and maintenance through a competitive procedure established pursuant to the disposition plan developed under section 613(a) of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration Authorization Act of 2008 (42 U.S.C. 17761(a)), with priority consideration given to eligible applicants meeting all conditions of that plan which would provide for the display and maintenance of orbiters at locations with the best potential value to the public, including where the location of the orbiters can advance educational opportunities in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics disciplines, and with an historical relationship with either the launch, flight operations, or processing of the Space Shuttle orbiters or the retrieval of NASA manned space vehicles, or significant contributions to human space flight. The Smithsonian Institution, which, as of the date of enactment of this Act, houses the Space Shuttle Enterprise, shall determine any new location for the Enterprise.

(b) Display and Maintenance- The orbiter vehicles made available under subsection (a) shall be displayed and maintained through agreements and procedures established pursuant to section 613(a) of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration Authorization Act of 2008 (42 U.S.C. 17761(a)).

(c) Authorization of Appropriations- There are authorized to be appropriated to NASA such sums as may be necessary to carry out this section. The amounts authorized to be appropriated by this subsection shall be in addition to any amounts authorized to be appropriated by title I, and may be requested by the President as supplemental requirements, if needed, in the appropriate fiscal years.

Fezman92
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posted 09-30-2010 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I am reading that correctly then the only places that can get a shuttle are places that have done significant work with the shuttle program right?

Also, not sure if this was answered but what is going to happen to the 747 that transports the shuttles from Edwards?

SpaceAholic
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posted 09-30-2010 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Its not exclusionary; just indicates as a factor in consideration for placement, relationship to the program will be given priority.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-30-2010 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA Deputy Administrator Lori Garver held a media telecon this afternoon to discuss the bill's passage, during which she addressed how the bill -- and specifically, its language relating to venues sharing a relationship with the shuttle's usage and/or history -- would affect NASA's decision where the orbiters are retired.
"I believe NASA has had criteria for evaluating the proposals for where shuttles would go. That specific language was already in the criteria. So I do not anticipate that would change NASA's plans."
As a follow-up to that question, Garver was asked if NASA had a timeline for announcing the chosen venues, now that Congress has had its chance to weigh in.
"I don't have a specific timetable. One of the issues is when do you stop flying and so timing is driven by when the orbiters could be available and when they would get in the queue for refurbishment in order to go to museums. It certainly should happen this year."

kr4mula
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posted 10-04-2010 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Incidentally, there seems to be some discussion over the meaning of paragraph (c) above. One reading (the prevalent one, in my observation) is that now the government will foot the bill for safe-ing the orbiter for museum use. That means whatever museum gets an orbiter would just have to pay for the cost of transporting it, housing it (building a new building or whatever), and upkeep (of course). This means a huge savings and a lot less fundraising for competitors, which might have meant more plausible applications for some museums.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 10-04-2010 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kr4mula:
One reading (the prevalent one, in my observation) is that now the government will foot the bill for safe-ing the orbiter for museum use.
That is correct, though it happened before the passage of this bill. The removal of the safing costs reduced the museums' expense from about $42 million to $28.8 million. As explained by NASA:
The $28.8M cost is the sum of two component costs: $8.3M for "Ferry" and $20.5M for "Display Preparation". NASA defines these two tasks as mandatory work to provide an Orbiter to a recipient, and NASA has determined that NASA must perform this work. Note that cost estimate of the two components have different estimating uncertainties, such that the actual cost of one component vs. the other may increase. NASA is confident, however, that the total cost to prepare and transport each vehicle will not exceed $28.8M.

(1) The $8.3M "Ferry" cost is the work to fly the Orbiter to an airport near the display site. The airport must meet specific criteria that allow landing the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft with attached Orbiter. The Orbiter will remain in Ferry Flight Configuration. The major tasks include: actual ferry of Orbiter, offload & tow to final location; positioning the orbiter on jack stands and de- servicing Hydraulic System #1; renting two NASA approved mobile Cranes, on loading/offloading the Orbiter to/from Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (SCA); shipment of Ground Support Equipment (GSE) required from and to NASA KSC; travel cost and rentals of hi-lifts, access stands , etc.; and Shuttle Carrier Aircraft and Shuttle Landing Facility costs to conduct the ferry operation.

(2) NASA is not seeking reimbursement for safing costs. Safing the Orbiter vehicles is a NASA obligation and requires putting the Orbiters in a condition in which they may be stored indefinitely at NASA KSC, away from the public.

(3) $20.5M is required for Display Preparation which includes the reinstallation of safed Orbiter vehicle systems or substitutes for Orbiter vehicle systems; provision of new special hazard notices and controls; and configuration of the vehicle to allow it to be ferried to and reside in its final destination. Tasks include set up of the Crew Module in flight configuration, installation of structural shells and skins for the previously removed Orbital Maneuvering System pods, Forward Reaction Control System, and internal cabin structural panels, as well as final closeout of the payload bay, wings and the aft compartment. "Display Preparation" is not a museum display showcasing the Orbiter. Display preparation also includes costs for NASA to configure the Orbiter for Ferry Flight per existing Space Shuttle Program ferry flight requirements; preparation and sign-off of the Ferry Flight Readiness Statement, as well as preparation and delivery of the NASA display site "kit". Also included is the ground support equipment (GSE) required to support final NASA public display site requirements, including "Data" packs (MSDS- equivalent for remaining passive hazards; Orbiter system configuration summary).

(4) There are no "fees" in addition to the Display Preparation and Ferry work as defined by NASA above.

Any work beyond NASA's definition of "Display Preparation" and "Ferry" is not considered mandatory by NASA and is not included in the $28.8M external funding requirement.

cv1701
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posted 10-16-2010 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cv1701     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My predictions:
  • Discovery (Smithsonian)
    It's the oldest orbiter. It's NASM. This one is obvious.

  • Atlantis (National Museum of the U.S. Air Force)
    The museum is arguably second only to the Smithsonian in regards to their restoration and artifact-care capabilities, as well as (last I heard) museum attendance numbers. Also, the museum, like NASM, has free admission, unlike other competing museums. The USAF's contributions to the shuttle program are well-documented. Atlantis was also used on DOD flights, furthering the military connection.

  • Endeavour (KSC or JSC)
    I think only one of the NASA centers is going to get a shuttle. KSC seems more logical, given the fact that it was the shuttle's home and launch site. I think KSC also gets more visitors than JSC. But, with the manned launches essentially being outsourced to Russia after the shuttle ends, I highly doubt the KSC visitor's center is going to continue to see the visitor numbers that they've had in the past since no manned launches will be taking place there for some time. KSC or JSC? Take your pick.

  • Enterprise (Museum of Flight, Seattle)
    The west coast will need to be represented, and the Museum of Flight has a rich collection that a shuttle would fit nicely in.
I know the U.S. Space & Rocket Center in Huntsville wants one. Personally, I am adamantly opposed to them getting one. They already have Pathfinder, the only full stack representation of the shuttle in the world. To the average visitor, seeing Pathfinder and then seeing another shuttle would be repetitive (flown or not). Plus, with the USSRC's reputation for artifact care (Remember them putting Skylab in the parking lot? And they have, or at least had, one of Roger Chaffee's Apollo 1 training suits on display... without a display case!), I cringe to think of what they would put in the parking lot to make room for a shuttle. Maybe the lunar module they have?

SpaceAholic
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Posts: 3131
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-16-2010 11:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cv1701:
I know the U.S. Space & Rocket Center in Huntsville wants one. Personally, I am adamantly opposed to them getting one. They already have Pathfinder, the only full stack representation of the shuttle in the world.

Isn't this this analogous to the 1:1 vertically erect model (outside USSRC) and the actual Saturn V horizontally displayed within? The two provide different but complementary experiences. Of late, the USSRC has done a bang-up job with artifact display within the Davidson Center (in my opinion, a world class exhibit hall) - as the welcome center for MSFC (which developed the shuttle propulsion system), the institute deserves serious consideration.

cv1701
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Registered: Apr 2008

posted 10-17-2010 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cv1701     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAholic:
The two provide different but complementary experiences.
Complementary, absolutely. But in the shuttle situation, there are a limited number available, whereas the Saturn V vertical model could theoretically be built at every air/space museum in the world (if they all had the desire and funds to do it).

If, for some reason, there had been only one vertical Saturn V available and various museums were competing for it, I would argue that it be sent to someplace other than USSRC, JSC, or KSC, simply in the name of diversification.

Fezman92
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Posts: 1030
From: New Jersey, USA
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 10-17-2010 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was at the Air and Space at Dulles this weekend and I was talking to one of the staff about the Enterprise leaving, them getting Discovery. He said that this month they are going to announce who gets the Enterprise.

kr4mula
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Posts: 615
From: Cinci, OH
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 10-18-2010 11:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fezman92:
I was at the Air and Space at Dulles this weekend and I was talking to one of the staff about the Enterprise leaving, them getting Discovery. He said that this month they are going to announce who gets the Enterprise.

Interesting if their announcement pre-dates NASA's about who is getting the orbiters because the recipient of Enterprise would obviously be out of the competition over the other three. That may also suggest that NASA has indicated to NASM who is (or at least who is not?) getting an orbiter.

Kind of like announcing the runner-up for Miss America first lets you know the winner by default, especially if it goes to one of the presumptive front-runners. For that reason, I can't see NASA letting NASM make their announcement first. But maybe then it's a clue that NASA will make its announcement very soon. Cross fingers!

tegwilym
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Posts: 2292
From: Renton, WA USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 10-18-2010 01:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fezman92:
He said that this month they are going to announce who gets the Enterprise.
I sure hope they don't announce "Seattle" for that winner!

Fezman92
Member

Posts: 1030
From: New Jersey, USA
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 10-18-2010 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kr4mula:
I can't see NASA letting NASM make their announcement first.
I'm not sure which 'they' he was talking about. Might be NASA because we were also talking about who would get the shuttle transports. NASM doesn't want them because they don't have the room.

Robert Pearlman
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Posts: 28697
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-18-2010 01:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The museum docent seems to have been misinformed. Both NASA and the Smithsonian have said within recent days that no announcement is pending soon.


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