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  Exhibiting NASA's retired shuttle orbiters (Page 3)

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Author Topic:   Exhibiting NASA's retired shuttle orbiters
dwmzmm
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posted 12-20-2008 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dwmzmm   Click Here to Email dwmzmm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Organizations responding to this RFI must be: 1) a U.S. museum, institution, or organization dedicated to education or educational outreach, including NASA Visitor Centers; 2) a U.S. Federal agency, State, Commonwealth, or U.S. possession or any municipal corporation or political subdivision thereof; or 3) the District of Columbia.
Hope this includes Rocket Park at JSC.

tegwilym
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posted 12-21-2008 03:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hope Seattle is on the list. I wonder if the Museum of Flight has the money for the shuttle restoration?

Here is a photo of the new expanded wing of the museum across the street. Look what they have there in it's own special room!

We'll see if we get lucky over here....

kr4mula
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posted 12-22-2008 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It will be interesting to see where a company like Boeing would choose to support. The Big 3 aerospace companies could very well have the power to determine who (where) gets the orbiters through promise of corporate sponsorship. Would Boeing support the place in Seattle, or the museum in Chicago if they were interested? Or go for the higher-profile NASM, which is already guaranteed an orbiter? Very generous local benefactors would have to be lined up to provide some counterweight to these corporate giants. Of course, with things like the Air Force's new tanker still up for grabs, maybe Boeing would want to highlight its good name in Dayton, which handles acquisitions.

Scott got my point: NASA would have to safe the orbiters even if it kept them in its own storage facility, which means there's an inherent cost to NASA regardless of destination. But I guess if they can find institutions to pay for it, then more power to them.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 12-23-2008 09:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As Tom (tegwilym) mentioned, The Museum of Flight in Washington is planning a new gallery to potentially display an orbiter, as also reported by KING-TV Seattle.
If the space shuttle does land here in Seattle, it wouldn't be in the museum as you know it today. It would be in a whole new gallery right across the street from the Museum. And you may not need to pay the price of admission to see it.

"It's a special building. We've been planning it. People traveling down East Marginal Way could see the shuttle through glass as you go by,” said [Museum President and former astronaut Bonnie] Dunbar.

To go beyond the glass you'd have to pay.

Mr Meek
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posted 12-26-2008 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mr Meek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A small update to a previous post regarding Pathfinder at the USSRC: In addition to the repairs in July, it appears that OV-098 got a fresh coat of paint. For whatever reason, the name is now painted in all caps.

If the weather clears up before I leave town, I'll take some pictures. It really is a striking difference. And, other than the capital letters, quite an improvement.

kr4mula
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posted 01-12-2009 01:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Dayton Daily News has an editorial and a blog post about why the National Museum of the US Air Force should get one of the orbiters.
If the Air Force museum doesn't get one of the three space shuttles that are slated to be retired in 2010, the Dayton community, the area's politicians and the Air Force itself will have fallen down on the job.

Considering the role that the Air Force has played in the space program, how can one of the sleek ships not be on display at the Air Force's premier and official museum?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-29-2009 09:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Florida Today: Group wants to keep a shuttle at KSC
Former KSC Directors Jay Honeycutt, Jim Kennedy and Bob Crippen -- the latter a former astronaut who piloted Columbia on its maiden voyage in 1981 -- all are involved in the bid to bring one of the birds to a final roost here at KSC.

NASA officials at KSC will submit a proposal by March 17, and the grass-roots advisory group will meet again in mid-February to form a publicity campaign.

The idea is to display an orbiter at the KSC Visitor Complex, one of the most popular tourist attractions in Florida.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-05-2009 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
collectSPACE: Saving the space shuttle, piece by piece
Neal and her collections staff are working to develop their shopping list of shuttle artifacts (approximately 250 objects, including a 'flown' orbiter) that they hope to snare for the museum's collection. Thanks to a "Public Display and Outreach Wish List" collected by Wickman's organization at NASA Headquarters with input from all NASA centers' public affairs offices, the NASM, the Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville, Ala., and the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force in Dayton, Ohio, many items that will be of interest as artifacts have been identified.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-09-2009 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA release
RFI Questions and NASA Responses

Questions/answers are as follows:

  1. Has any consideration been given to using the Orbiters as emergency habitations, escape vehicles, or storage/lab space for the International Space Station?

    This question is beyond the scope of the RFI. Even un-crewed Orbiters cannot remain on orbit longer than a relatively small number of days, primarily due to depletion of essential commodities such as cryogenic fluids and propellants. The Orbiters cannot be used as crew escape vehicles for ISS. Using the Orbiters to augment the ISS operations would require costly recertification and technical modifications that are not authorized or budgeted at this time.

  2. Would NASA consider submission of a proposal by an entity to purchase an Orbiter with the intention of using it for further flights?

    No. This question is beyond the scope of the RFI. Continued spaceflight operation of an Orbiter would require the equivalent of a substantial portion of the engineering and production support for the entire Space Shuttle Program including all Space Transportation System elements (i.e., Reusable Solid Rocket Motors, Space Shuttle Main Engines, External Tank, Launch and Landing, etc.) This capability is not being offered by NASA because key elements are required for the Constellation Program and could not reasonably be duplicated elsewhere in the U.S. within the retirement horizon for the Space Shuttle Program.

  3. Will electronic components on the Space Shuttle Orbiters such as microprocessors be available?

    The Space Shuttle Orbiters are historic vehicles. Except for removing hazards and the Space Shuttle Main Engines, NASA intends to make the Orbiters available in the configuration in which they are taken out of service in so far as reasonably possible. All other Space Shuttle personal property will be dispositioned by reutilization, transfer, donation, sale, or abandonment and destruction through the normal Federal property disposal process. Certain items of Space Shuttle personal property may be controlled under the Arms Export Control Act (22 USC 2751, et. seq.) and the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) (22 CFR 121) or the Export Administration Control Act of 1979 (50 USC 2401, et. seq.) and the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) (15 CFR 730-774). Persons receiving controlled items must comply with all export restrictions imposed under the ITAR or the EAR. Violations of these regulations are punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both.

  4. Our firm is interested in providing services/expertise to end receivers of Space Shuttle Main Engine hardware, or any organization having a need for Space Shuttle Main Engine experience. Will NASA identify end user candidates on the transition website?

    NASA will not publicly identify RFI respondents nor will NASA disclose proprietary information obtained as a result of this RFI.

  5. Are letters of support permitted as part of the RFI response?

    The RFI process is intended to gather market research for NASA to make decisions regarding development of strategies for placement of Space Shuttle Orbiters and Space Shuttle Main Engines. No solicitation exists. Letters of support are permitted but are neither required nor encouraged. If letters of support are submitted, they will be considered part of the response which is limited to 25 pages in length.

  6. If letters of support cannot be submitted as part of the RFI will there be another opportunity to submit such letters of support and to whom would they be addressed?

    See answer to question 5. The members of the public may contact NASA at the following address:

    Public Communications Office
    NASA Headquarters
    Suite 5K39
    Washington, DC 20546-0001

  7. Can respondents to the RFI include photographs in their documents as long as those photographs are embedded within the text?

    Yes, provided the total response does not exceed 25 pages in length.

  8. Is there a file size limitation (bytes) imposed on the RFI response?

    No. However, file size for e-mail attachments are limited only by the physical capacity of the sender’s and NASA’s e-mail systems. The NASA e-mail system typically handles messages with a total attachment size up to 10 megabytes (MB). If RFI responses will exceed 10MB, the responses may be submitted on CD-ROM and sent to NASA Headquarters via express mail, commercial delivery, or courier delivery to the following address:

    SSP RFI Responses
    NASA Headquarters
    Office of Infrastructure (LD000)
    Attn: Receiving & Inspection
    NASA Headquarters
    300 E Street SW
    Washington DC 20024-3210

    Due to security procedures for scanning incoming mail, submission via U.S. Mail Service is not recommended. Items mailed through the U.S. Postal Service (including registered or certified) should be addressed as

    SSP RFI Responses
    Office of Infrastructure (LD000)
    Mail Stop 4G74
    NASA Headquarters
    Washington, DC 20546-0001

  9. When will NASA publicly release the names of organizations responding to the RFI?

    NASA will not publicly identify RFI respondents nor will NASA disclose proprietary information obtained as a result of this RFI.

  10. Would NASA allow an Orbiter to be partially dismantled to permit transportation by road to a recipient’s facility provided the Orbiter is fully reassembled after it reaches its final destination?

    The Orbiters are rare, historic vehicles that must be carefully preserved for the enjoyment of future generations. Orbiter design and construction is highly integrated and not conducive to easy disassembly and reassembly. For example, the fuselage and wings are covered with a complex arrangement of thermal protection tiles and other materials that would have to be removed to gain access to the underlying structure.

    While NASA would consider transportation alternatives to ferry flight by Shuttle Carrier Aircraft, all unproven transportation methods especially those requiring partial disassembly of an Orbiter must be analyzed and demonstrated by the potential recipient to NASA to be safe for transportation crews, the public, and the Orbiter itself. The recipient organization would be responsible for all costs associated with developing the procedures, demonstrating to NASA’s satisfaction that the procedures are sound, moving the hardware, and restoring the Orbiter to complete and original condition after it reaches its final destination. The viability of alternate transportation arrangements and the risks associated with them would be a significant factor in making future Orbiter placement decisions.

  11. Why does the RFI state that assembled Space Shuttle Main Engines (SSME) will not be installed in, nor included with, the Orbiters?

    Current planning calls for NASA to retain all flight-worthy SSMEs for technical mitigation and potential programmatic reuse within NASA or the Department of Defense until final disposition decisions are made. The only SSMEs that will be available for donation in the immediate future are the six-to-ten non-flight-worthy unassembled or partially assembled SSMEs mentioned in the RFI that could become display pieces. NASA expects that some RFI responses will address only the Orbiters, some will address only the display SSMEs, and some will address both.

  12. If an organization were to engage in discussions with the National Air and Space Museum with respect to acquiring the Orbiter Enterprise, would that organization be at a disadvantage?

    Such organizations would gain neither an advantage nor a disadvantage in being considered to receive a flown Orbiter.

  13. How will NASA use the responses to this RFI? What are the next steps?

    This is a Request for Information (RFI) only and does not constitute a commitment, implied or otherwise, that NASA will follow any particular course of action in this matter. The RFI responses will help NASA determine what next steps may be appropriate to ultimately make Orbiter and SSME placement decisions. If NASA determines that a Request for Proposals (RFP) is the appropriate next step, the RFP process would be open and not limited only to those organizations responding to this RFI.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-06-2009 07:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dayton Daily News: WPAFB wants space shuttle
The Air Force's top civilian has told NASA that one of the U.S. space shuttles to be retired in late 2010 should be assigned to the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force.

Air Force Secretary Michael Donley's mid-March letter to NASA stated the Air Force's interest in obtaining one of the shuttles for permanent display, in response to NASA's request for information from any organization interested in securing one of the orbiters. Donley wrote that it would be a requirement of the Air Force to assign the retired shuttle to the national museum because it is the Air Force's official archive.

Officials of the suburban Dayton museum are eager to have a shuttle -- preferably Atlantis, which carried military payloads aloft -- for display and believe it could boost annual attendance from the current 1.3 million to approximately 2 million, said Charles Metcalf, a retired Air Force major general who is the museum's director. "It's readily recognized by the American public for what it is," Metcalf said.

Dayton Daily News: NASA won't say if Air Force will get shuttle
The National Aeronautics and Space Administration has turned to the Air Force for guidance on how the nation's space shuttles should be prepared for life after their retirement.

But NASA won't tell the Air Force whether it will be given one of the shuttles for permanent display at the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force, despite a formal expression of interest from Air Force Secretary Michael Donley and the Ohio congressional delegation's intention to send NASA a letter supporting the Air Force's bid. The letter signed by the congressional delegation is to be sent Monday, April 6, said spokesman Telly Lovelace for U.S. Rep. Mike Turner, R-Centerville, who coordinated the effort.

The space agency acknowledged receipt of Donley's mid-March letter, but hasn't said more. The space agency has chosen not to publicly say who expressed interest in having a shuttle or say when it will make its placement decisions, other than that it will be after the shuttle fleet is retired in late 2010.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-28-2009 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Associated Press: Tulsa museum applies for space shuttles
Officials with the Tulsa Air and Space Museum & Planetarium have applied to NASA to become the home for one of the three soon-to-be-retired space shuttles.

NASA is looking for permanent homes for the three shuttles and the executive director of the Tulsa museum says the facility meets NASA's requirements.

Jim Birdenstine says Tulsa also has a history in the nation's space exploration programs.

He says the Delta Program that launched America's first satellites into orbit was created in Tulsa and Saturn rockets were built in the city. The bay doors on the Space Shuttle Orbiter were built in Tulsa and mechanics and engineers in the city modified the Boeing 747 to carry space shuttles across the country.

nasamad
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posted 04-28-2009 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nasamad   Click Here to Email nasamad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know if a museum applied for a shuttle and stated they wished to display it upright on an ET and SRBs would the space agency also supply them free of charge (plus prep and shipping)?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-28-2009 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As the current plans are to continue to use the solid rocket boosters for Ares, there will be no spare SRBs for display. With regards to external tanks, if the program comes to a close as currently planned, then only one ET will remain. NASA has not yet detailed what will become of it, if not of continued use to the agency.

nasamad
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posted 04-29-2009 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nasamad   Click Here to Email nasamad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the info Robert, I didn't realise that they would be using the same segments for Ares, I assumed they would be some kind of uprated lightweight ones, like the filament wound ones I have heard about in the past.

tulsaboy
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posted 05-01-2009 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tulsaboy   Click Here to Email tulsaboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thought you might like to see the rendering of the Tulsa proposal. The display of the orbiter would be vertical, with the option of rotating it down to horizontal.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-24-2009 02:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tulsa World: City's space shuttle hopes still flying high
The Tulsa Air and Space Museum is continuing its efforts to land one of NASA’s three retiring space shuttles, and Executive Director Jim Bridenstine said he’s encouraged by the support being shown to the project.

The Tulsa Economic Development Commission recently passed a resolution in support of the Tulsa Air and Space Museum’s efforts.

“It means a lot,” Bridenstine said.

He said his desire to get the shuttle is no surprise, but that “when the Economic Development Commission, without hesitation, offers a unanimous resolution, what that shows me is other people are getting the vision. We need for this project to be a citywide and statewide project.”

The museum is one of 20 being considered by NASA to receive one of the shuttles, which will be retired next year.

btguest
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posted 09-24-2009 07:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for btguest   Click Here to Email btguest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know the complete list of 20 museums mentioned above? Going through this post, here's what we see so far:
  • Seattle's Museum of Flight
  • National Museum of the US Air Force
  • Tulsa Air and Space Museum
  • Space Center Houston (JSC)
  • Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex
  • U.S. Space & Rocket Center (MSFC)
  • Palmdale Plant #42 (CA)
  • Evergreen Museum
  • Cosmosphere and Space Center
  • San Diego Air and Space Museum
That's 10 (not including the National Air and Space Musuem). Which ones have I left out?

AFGAS
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posted 09-25-2009 06:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AFGAS   Click Here to Email AFGAS     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
According to conversation with Chris Orwoll the Cosmosphere will not ask for an Orbiter.

Delta7
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posted 09-25-2009 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I had to guess where they'll wind up:
  • NASM is a no-brainer;
  • Air Force Museum in Dayton OH;
  • San Diego museum.
That way, you have one on the east coast, one in the middle of the country, and one on the west coast. And none of it being on NASA's dime.

alanh_7
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posted 09-25-2009 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for alanh_7   Click Here to Email alanh_7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I this one will go to the NASM, one the USAF Museum and while San Diego is a good bet, I think KSC is also a good bet.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-25-2009 09:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA has confirmed that space shuttle Discovery is intended for the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum.

kr4mula
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posted 09-25-2009 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The latest impressions I've heard from some higher-ups have been that the Air Force Museum will get Atlantis, KSC will get Endeavour, and Enterprise will move from NASM out to the West Coast (not sure where). Obviously lots of contingencies in every case, but this is supposedly current thinking.

tericee
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posted 09-25-2009 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tericee   Click Here to Email tericee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Tulsa Air and Space Museum (TASM) is one of 20 museums being considered by NASA to receive one of the three Space Shuttles set to retire in 2010. TASM is laying the groundwork to best position itself for delivery of one of the Space Shuttles. Oklahoma Astronaut, and member of the Chickasaw Nation, CDR John Herrington is chairing the "Land the Shuttle" campaign on behalf of the Tulsa Air and Space Museum. Join the first Native American astronaut, myself, and all the fans of TASM in petitioning NASA to send a retired shuttle to Tulsa!

We also have a Twitter petition if you'd like to "sign".

E2M Lem Man
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posted 09-25-2009 07:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for E2M Lem Man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Downey's Columbia Center has requested one, but we have the 1974 Orbiter mockup. Edwards Flight Test Center is interested and hopes that it will represent the NASA-Dryden interests.

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posted 09-26-2009 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RocketPoke   Click Here to Email RocketPoke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jim, is that official (or at least as official as a message board can be)? I talked with the curator at the FLTC museum and he said it's a no-go because they're under the purview of the Dayton museum and they would get first dibs.

Too much politics up here on this. I've been trying to work this from the ground up for two years now and have gotten nowhere.

Also, who has full scale mockups? I know of the Cape, does Johnson have one? And is Downey's full scale? That should be considered when counting what's available. Those would be suitable stand-ins.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-26-2009 12:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Space Center Houston has a full scale mockup of the orbiter's crew cabin but not the full body. Johnson Space Center has two crew cabin mockups and a full body mockup (without wings) used for training and those are currently being offered to museums under the the initial catalog of shuttle artifacts to be released by NASA.

Kennedy Space Center has two full-scale mock-ups, one at the Astronaut Hall of Fame (its cockpit converted into a simulator and its payload bay, a meeting room) and the walk-through Explorer at the Visitor Complex.

The U.S. Space & Rocket Center has Pathfinder, the only full scale mockup to be mounted to an external tank and solid rocket boosters, as pictured earlier in this thread. Space Camp has a full scale mockup (without wings) and several cabin mockups for its training programs.

The Kansas Cosmosphere also has a full scale, half-body (cut vertically) mockup.

GACspaceguy
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posted 09-26-2009 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, here is my take on displaying the shuttles. Discovery at Udvar as stated. Then it would be unthinkable not to put a shuttle at KSC, the place where they all left earth. Also, they have the perfect facility for display already available in the Orbiter Processing Facility (OPF). The bus tour drops you off at the OPF you do the tour and then another picks you up just like they do for the ISS processing facility now (I would think that the ISS part of the tour will shut down after the last flight). JSC would be the next choice due to it being a significant NASA facility and shuttle training Mecca. Then add the number of visitors they have per year and that choice is obvious. I understand that Dayton is a wonderful AIR FORCE museum, but apart from driving some of the design requirements of the STS, the Air Force has had very little to do with it after Challenger. I would think their focus would be to get the presidential and X-planes into the main museum rather than obtaining a civil vehicle for their displays.

The Enterprise, well that could be the tough one. The cost of safeing it is not an issue therefore it does not need to be a large facility. Due to its ties to Edwards (and the fact that it did make it to the launch pad at Vandenberg) then the transfer to Dayton could be a possibility, but for the same reasons stated above, Dayton has other opportunities to work with. Seattle, understand that they have a place to display it so they should be in the running, due to the Boeing connection. I would say that it is this shuttle that is in the running for those places in the running for an Orbiter.

space1
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posted 09-26-2009 07:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for space1   Click Here to Email space1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, I believe all the mock-ups you mentioned at museums have been made by exhibit builders rather than being "decommissioned" NASA trainers or artifacts. (Pathfinder I believe is a heavily modified artifact.) I point this out because of their accuracy shortcomings compared to the actual NASA trainers.

The mock-up at Downey could be described as a full-scale mostly wooden engineering model. I have seen it extensively inside and out. It is an early configuration with the fairings for the OMS pods extending onto the payload bay doors. It is an impressive artifact.

------------------
John Fongheiser
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Historic Space Systems, http://www.space1.com

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-26-2009 07:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indeed they were...

With the exception of Pathfinder, the Space Vehicle Mockup Facility and motion simulators, I believe that the other orbiter models, full scale or otherwise, should not influence the decision where the real orbiters reside. The mockups serve a different purpose (the public can enter and tour mockups, especially those designed for walk-through traffic) whereas logistics and preservation concerns would largely rule out such access.

One other "orbiter" that I expect will be a prized museum artifact is OV-095, the Shuttle Avionics Integration Laboratory (SAIL), which has more time "in flight" than all of the flown orbiters combined. NASA has the SAIL mockup listed among the first items to be released to museums.

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posted 09-26-2009 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RocketPoke   Click Here to Email RocketPoke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks all for the feedback. John, that's what I figured. I should've worded my question better. I wasn't sure if the full sizes at the Cape and Johnson were real training/fit check/etc artifacts or not. I knew the one at Downey was, like John described, a wooden engineering model.

As for GACspaceguy's breakdown, I agree that's probably how it will shake out. The Air Force's contribution has been debated ad nauseum at the NASA Spaceflight forum. But one way in the back door would be for the Enterprise to be given to Dryden to then be exhibited by the FTC museum (for example the X-43 is not included in their display of x-planes). However, there's not much NASA history at the museum. Even though they're a tenant, they're a different entity with different PA and Historian offices.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 11-11-2009 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Florida Today: Titusville wants shuttle for KSC display
The Titusville City Council on Tuesday joined the appeal to keep one of the space shuttle orbiters at Kennedy Space Center after the fleet is retired.

"This state has cried and cheered for the shuttle for more than 20 years," said state Rep. Ritch Workman, who sponsored a bill in the Legislature to lobby for an orbiter.

"We can not let that history and legacy go away because of a more enthused bidder."

After the fleet retires, expected to be sometime in 2011, Discovery will go to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C., which has first right of refusal on all space artifacts.

About 20 other organizations are vying for Atlantis and Endeavour, but NASA would not release the list of candidates.

kr4mula
Member

Posts: 615
From: Cinci, OH
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 11-12-2009 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe we should start a pool. Everyone puts in a guess as to which orbiter (and Enterprise) ends up where. Anyone who participates has to put in shuttle memorabilia, like an autographed shuttle astronaut photo, and whoever gets them all correct wins the pot. Robert can hold all the items for us until the shuttles are safely in place. I'm sure this will work great over the next five years or however long it takes!

Delta7
Member

Posts: 1199
From: Ossian IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted 11-12-2009 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know the length of time anticipated between the last flight of an orbiter and when it would be ready to be delivered to it's final exhibit location?

tegwilym
Member

Posts: 2292
From: Renton, WA USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 11-12-2009 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I still have my fingers, toes, legs, whatever... crossed that Seattle gets one!

We have the best museum here on the West coast of you ask me, we GOTTA get one.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 28697
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 11-30-2009 10:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Florida Today: Which museum will get the space shuttle orbiters?
I saw Kennedy Space Center Director Bob Cabana the other night. The former space shuttle astronaut is partial to keeping Endeavour here in Florida.

The private company that runs the KSC Visitor Complex has long talked about a space shuttle expansion at their facility outside Titusville, built around a retired orbiter.

Official proposals will be made, but so will quiet politicking behind the scenes.

Cabana's talked since the day he got here about making sure that one of the orbiters remains in Florida after its service life.

He's repeatedly joked about possession being nine-tenths of the law...

Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member

Posts: 2356
From: Toms River, NJ,USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 11-30-2009 11:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
New York City-based Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum is looking to land a shuttle, though I don't know where they'd have the space. A British Airways Concorde occupies one end of the pier, although a banner on the petition page shows the shuttle would occupy that spot (unless they can somehow fit it in the hangar deck)...

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 28697
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 12-07-2009 06:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From the Front page of the Houston Chronicle:
Counting down to who will land a retired shuttle
With space shuttles still launching and landing, NASA isn't keen to talk about what will happen to the iconic vehicles after they're retired.

But the competition among institutions to land a space shuttle for public display is heating up.

Last December, NASA issued a "request for information" to educational institutions, science museums and other organizations about their interest in acquiring a space shuttle. The space agency estimated it would cost about $42 million to prepare the vehicle and deliver it via a modified 747 Boeing aircraft carrier.

About 20 institutions -- including a group of bidders led by Space Center Houston -- responded. Since then, however, the space agency has been mum.

"We're still in a holding pattern," said Robert Pearlman, editor of collectSPACE.com, a Web site for space history enthusiasts. "I don't think anyone in the program really wants to talk about retiring the orbiters while they're still flying them..."

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 28697
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 12-14-2009 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Cosmosphere's intentions were noted earlier on this thread, but they have just released a statement on the topic:
Is the Cosmosphere getting a flown Space Shuttle?

"While the Cosmosphere would love to acquire a flown Orbiter, we didn't feel that it fit into our collections plan. First was the logistics and costs involved. The estimated costs from NASA to clean, safe, and deliver an orbiter are $42 million. In addition, a new facility would have to be constructed to house the orbiter as it may not be displayed outdoors. That delivery cost above only gets the shuttle to Salina or Wichita. The transport from there to Hutchinson would require us to dismantle and rebuild a large portion of the infrastructure on the connecting roads and highways (another amazing cost, plus the hassle for the state and residents). There is no direct route that is sufficiently prepared for an object that size and weight (think power lines, pipes, bridges, underpasses, etc.).

We decided that, because: 1) We already have a full scale shuttle orbiter replica in our lobby and the only view of a flown orbiter would also be from the outside (no interior access), 2) The high cost of acquisition and display, and 3) The availability of shuttle cockpit trainers to enhance our exterior display... we would not pursue a shuttle orbiter. We have recently requested and are awaiting determination on a number of shuttle artifacts, including a full-scale, motion-based, shuttle cockpit trainer to be able to allow our visitors to see the shuttle cockpit layout as it exists today and to see a "vehicle" that the astronauts have "flown" for many, many more hours that even the orbiters. Hope that answers your question!"

Cheers,

Chris Orwoll
President and CEO
Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center

tegwilym
Member

Posts: 2292
From: Renton, WA USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 12-15-2009 12:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice. One less museum for Seattle Museum of Flight to compete with.

thump
Member

Posts: 563
From: washington dc usa
Registered: May 2004

posted 12-15-2009 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thump   Click Here to Email thump     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Cosmosphere release brings up something I had not thought of, that is transporting the Shuttle from the nearest airport to the facility. Is Boeing Field's runways long enough to support the SCA/Shuttle landing, and does max weight factors for the runway come in to play. If Intrepid were to be awarded, I assume that they would land at JFK and barge the Shuttle over, as in the Concorde, but once again, does length of runway, and weight come in to play?


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