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  Exhibiting NASA's retired shuttle orbiters (Page 8)

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Author Topic:   Exhibiting NASA's retired shuttle orbiters
chenry
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posted 04-12-2011 06:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for chenry   Click Here to Email chenry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The NMUSAF has all of the funds for the new building and has all the planning complete. They are breaking ground in the fall.

GACspaceguy
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posted 04-12-2011 07:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chenry:
The NMUSAF has all of the funds for the new building and has all the planning complete. They are breaking ground in the fall.

Well, if they do not get a shuttle they will finally have a place for the XB-70 in the main museum.

Murph
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posted 04-12-2011 08:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Murph   Click Here to Email Murph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, today is the big day. Good Luck to all the worthy places that want a shuttle.
That said...my last minute pitch for the USS Intrepid:

The Intrepid has a long history with Naval Aviation, as does the shuttle

The Intrepid picked up Carpenter, Grissom and Young, during the Space Race. It returned the Gemini crew, and spacecraft to the Cape

Most importantly, as America's #1 Tourist destination, the sutttle will be seen by more people in New York City, by far, than anywhere else. Great publicity for NASA, and the Space program, which really need the boost.

The Intrepid will let you in for free today to watch the NASA announcement, in the Aircraft Carrier's briefing room, on the big screen, if you wear some space related clothing. I wish I could make it.
Go Intrepid!!

OV-105
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posted 04-12-2011 08:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for OV-105   Click Here to Email OV-105     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chenry:
The NMUSAF has all of the funds for the new building and has all the planning complete. They are breaking ground in the fall.

Do they have the money for the shuttle too? That is another nice chunk of cash that is needed.

kr4mula
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posted 04-12-2011 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If Atlantis is going to KSC, that doesn't bode well for the NMUSAF. Endeavour doesn't have the same ties to the military, which may very well mean that one won't make it here at all. Of course, the Enterpise could be the Air Force's "consolation prize," but again, the ties are less direct to it, other than as a representative.

I'll be heading over the the NMUSAF for the announcement this afternoon. The gathering of all the museum personnel from around the country for the Mutual Concerns conference should make for an interesting audience.

cv1701
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posted 04-12-2011 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cv1701     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Murph:
Most importantly, as America's #1 Tourist destination, the sutttle will be seen by more people in New York City, by far, than anywhere else.
Not true. The Intrepid museum is only blocks away from Times Square (the center of the known universe), and it still gets LESS visitors than either NASM, the Air Force Museum, or KSC.

cv1701
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posted 04-12-2011 10:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cv1701     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chenry:
The NMUSAF has all of the funds for the new building and has all the planning complete. They are breaking ground in the fall.

One of the articles I read said that the NMUSAF is ready to receive a shuttle at a moments notice by utilizing existing space in one of their buildings.

kr4mula
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posted 04-12-2011 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's correct. They would shuffle existing aircraft around a bit to fit the shuttle into the current Cold War Gallery hangar. They can do that as soon as they get an orbiter and keep it there as long as they need to, until the new building is completed.

kr4mula
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posted 04-12-2011 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The leaks/speculation grow, with only an hour or so until the official announcement. Now they're saying the Intrepid Museum will get Enterprise.

kr4mula
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posted 04-12-2011 11:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And now the Dayton Daily News is reporting that the Air Force won't get a shuttle. NASM, KSC, Intrepid, and the California Science Center in LA (?!) are the supposed recipients. Nice that 3 of them go to the East Coast. From these choices, it seems like the local population/visitor influx (even if it's not to those museum specifically) was the major criteria. I guess we'll see for sure in a little while.

Murph
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posted 04-12-2011 11:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Murph   Click Here to Email Murph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes the Intrepid gets less visitors than KSC and USAF Museum, but...

NYC is the number one tourist destination in America, with 50 million visitors a year, and if the Intrepid gets a shuttle, it will give millions an opportunity to see it, from all over America and the world. 50 Million people, I do not believe, visit the other places you speak of, combined.

It would be great exposure. Just what NASA needs. Why hide them?

Fezman92
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posted 04-12-2011 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hope these leaks aren't true. There should be only two on the East Coast.

GACspaceguy
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posted 04-12-2011 11:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kr4mula:
...NASM, KSC, Intrepid, and the California Science Center in LA (?!) are the supposed recipients.
The last time I was at the California Science Center (Spacefest 2009) it was closed because the roof was leaking on the spacecraft there. We ended up getting in with the curator as a special tour so that we could see the ASTP CM. It would be interesting to see where they put it.

Constellation One
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posted 04-12-2011 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Constellation One   Click Here to Email Constellation One     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As I'm two hours away from Dayton, I'm very disappointed.

Tough choice, four winners and a bunch of losers.

I'm sure Dayton will move on and still build a fantastic new hanger and fill it will amazing displays.

Something tells me that the Atlantis parking spot may now be given to a certain X37-B someday.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-12-2011 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
collectSPACE
NASA retiring its shuttles to Smithsonian, museums in California, Florida, New York

NASA filed the final flight plans for its three retiring space shuttles on Tuesday, assigning two to museums in Washington, DC and California, and keeping the third at its launch and landing site in Florida. A fourth, prototype orbiter will also go to a new home in New York.

NASA Administrator Charles Bolden announced the long awaited news during an employee event held at Kennedy commemorating the 30th anniversary of the space shuttle program. STS-1, the maiden flight for the winged reusable spaceship fleet, lifted off on April 12, 1981...

alanh_7
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posted 04-12-2011 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for alanh_7   Click Here to Email alanh_7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just watched Charlie Bolden list the locations.

I agree with two locations Atlantis to KSC and Discovery to Smithsonian. But do not agree with the location of Endeavour (LA) and Enterprise (New York).

FFrench
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posted 04-12-2011 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As someone who works at an institution who submitted a proposal, I wanted to give my heartiest congratulations to the selected museums, and I look forward to visiting them as they showcase these technological marvels to the public.

Fezman92
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posted 04-12-2011 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm going to be a bit blunt. Didn't part of the criteria for the shuttle be something to the affect of "the place has had to make a contribution to the shuttle program"?

Then please explain to me how the Intrepid contributed to the program. That and where can I find the California Science Center's plan for displaying the Endeavour?

alanh_7
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posted 04-12-2011 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for alanh_7   Click Here to Email alanh_7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Francis, congratulations to all. I am a little surprised the U.S Air Force Museum did not get one of the shuttles. However I am sure all museums involved will treat the shuttles with the respect they deserve.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-12-2011 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fezman92:
Didn't part of the criteria for the shuttle be something to the affect of "the place has had to make a contribution to the shuttle program"?
The criteria, as NASA described it, was that the site needed to contribute to the shuttle program or the space program in general. Intrepid retrieved both Aurora 7 (Scott Carpenter) and Gemini 3.

And that was only one criteria, among others that included the strength of their educational programs and how many visitors would potentially see the space shuttle on display.

quote:
...where can I find the California Science Center's plan for displaying the Endeavour?
The California Science Center chose not go public with their proposal and remained quiet throughout the three year selection process. Their display concept was submitted to NASA but has not been released publicly.

Murph
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posted 04-12-2011 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Murph   Click Here to Email Murph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Congratulations to all who received a shuttle, and best wishes to all who applied for one, in this tough competition. It's a shame there weren't more to go around.

Someone wrote on Google News they were disappointed that the Intrepid received the prototype Enterprise. I'm not. I am thrilled.

Fezman92
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posted 04-12-2011 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So Seattle and Ohio will get the shuttle sims. I was very shocked that JSC didn't get anything.

Constellation One
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posted 04-12-2011 01:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Constellation One   Click Here to Email Constellation One     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess if we look at the requirement that the site should have a historical tie to the shuttle or space program, I understand why Dayton did not get one.

But then what has the Smithsonian done?

Hmm.

Jay Chladek
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posted 04-12-2011 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting choices and two I was NOT expecting at all. It is a pity that Dayton won't be getting one as it almost seems like a slap in the face of the USAF since without DoD help, shuttle would never have been built in the first place. But, maybe the museum's overt funding moves ticked off the people that made the decisions a bit.

While NYC does have a big draw of people, I really was not keen on them getting a shuttle as I don't think they thought out the climate controlled building logistics enough. Parking an orbiter that close to the salt water is going to have some long term repercussions on preservation down the road. I suppose Enterprise is the best of the orbiters to go there, since it has already been displayed outside (New Orleans) and it is pretty much just an airframe without the full level of equipment that a flight orbiter has. Plus the tiles are mockups (although NASM has been adding real tiles to one of its gear doors). Still, if they do put fourth the effort to display the Enterprise properly, it will be a worthy home as Intrepid has a few other interesting aircraft in its ranks. They will probably have to rethink their intent to display Enterprise with an open payload bay though since while the doors can be opened, Enterprise has practically nothing in the bay. No radiators or bay floor are in there. Look at images of the Buran Analog on display in Germany with a segment of its payload bay open and you get the idea.

KSC is an excellent choice and better than Houston in my mind. For starters, they don't need to ferry the orbiter out of the state now on a 747, which is a cost savings. Secondly, there is enough infrastructure there to make whatever facility they use to display the orbiter likely the best of the lot and potentially the biggest tourist draw. Personally, I also think Florida needs it.

The economy of southern Houston and the communities near JSC already seems pretty robust. There will be a migration of space workers out of there (it is already happening) as budgets get cut and contractors get laid off, but people will still move into the community as there are plenty of other jobs in the region to support the people that live and work near JSC. I was also wondering how much the bill was going to be to transport the thing from Ellington field to JSC as there would be A LOT of trees that needed to get cut down and probably some street lights that would need removal as well. I am surprised that Space Center Houston didn't make a play for the shuttle training simulators on JSC property. Okay, while they don't have the glamour of a flight orbiter, ALL shuttle astronauts have trained on them and internally they are identical to flight orbiters. They would form the basis for some lovely interactive exhibits.

Florida however is a different story. The loss of jobs with the shutdown of the shuttle program could be devastating to the towns along the space coast (I am talking contractors here, not NASA civil servants). Granted new contractor jobs will open up, but you likely won't have as big a support force in the future. Tourist dollars will also be affected as not as many visitors are as likely to stay on the space coast area, instead opting to stay in Orlando or Daytona beach. If a manned rocket isn't flying, why go there? A shuttle could likely help with that situation as more younger people know what it is while they have never heard of a Saturn V. For KSC to get a shuttle, it shows that they aren't being forgotten.

As for California, that is a bit of a wild card as I wasn't expecting it. However, it makes sense that one orbiter should be displayed near where it was first built and not far from where it returned from many flights. California has a very rich aviation heritage going back to Ryan building the Spirit of St. Louis for Lindberg and I would love the state to be known again for it as opposed to other things in the media.

tegwilym
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posted 04-12-2011 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
New York was a total surprise to me. I figured they didn't have a chance. Put a shuttle on a dock next to the aircraft carrier? Bring it over on a barge? The Smithsonian is already so close to there anyway?!

At least Seattle should get the big "shuttle fort" to play in. Ugh!

Fezman92
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posted 04-12-2011 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess that at the California Science Center they will make it so that if an earthquake hits, the Endeavour will be okay?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-12-2011 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fezman92:
So Seattle and Ohio will get the shuttle sims.
Of course, there are more than two simulators and trainers. As we reported last year:
From JSC's Space Vehicle Mockup Facility, or Building 9, the National Air and Space Museum and the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force will each be provided crew compartment (flight- and mid-deck) trainers, while the full fuselage mockup, which includes the payload bay and aft section but no wings, is destined for Seattle's Museum of Flight.

The Mission Simulation and Training Facility's (Building 5) fixed-based simulator is listed as being awarded to the Adler Planetarium in Chicago while the hydraulic-mounted flight deck motion base simulator is to go to Texas A&M's Aerospace Engineering Department in College Station.

Other shuttle system simulators have, per the Johnson Space Center's Rendezvous newsletter, been assigned to the Wings of Dreams Aviation Museum in Starke, Florida and the Virginia Air and Space Center in Hampton.

Murph
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posted 04-12-2011 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Murph   Click Here to Email Murph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And so it begins... from Cleveland.com:
U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown wants U.S. General Accountability Office to investigate the process by which the National Aeronautics and Space Administration decided to distribute four retired space shuttles to museums around the country.

NASA ignored the intent of Congress and the interests of taxpayers," Brown said in a press statement. "NASA was directed to consider regional diversity when determining shuttle locations. Unfortunately, it looks like regional diversity amounts to which coast you are on, or which exit you use on I-95. Even more insulting to taxpayers is that having paid to build the shuttles, they will now be charged to see them at some sites."

He is a Senator from Ohio.

kr4mula
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posted 04-12-2011 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I missed if NASA made additional comments about recipients following the locations of the orbiters, so forgive me if I'm being repetitive.

I attended the NMUSAF's gathering for the announcement. As soon as they said Atlantis was going to KSC, the grumbles began, with gasps after each additional announcement. There were a smattering of boos when it was obvious Dayton didn't get one. The Musuem leadership, and our local Congressman, said that they were "accepting NASA's decision" and "moving forward." They also mentioned that we would be getting a main engine and a crew compartment trainer, along with other (unnamed) hardware. That leads me to believe that Bolden or his people contacted at least some of the museums ahead of time to make them aware of what was going on.

For me, it's a big disappointment, as I'm sure it is to the folks in Houston, Seattle, and elsewhere. I can only think that the population base and city visitor numbers were the primary criteria, as the NMUSAF outdraws all of the winners, except NASM. We'll see if the pool of potential tourists who might go see the shuttles translates into actual tourists. Of course, a more cynical person might think the politicking was a bigger consideration.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-12-2011 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fezman92:
I guess that at the California Science Center they will make it so that if an earthquake hits, the Endeavour will be okay?
The California Science Center is a department of the State of California and is operated as a public-private partnership. I think it is safe to assume that whatever facility is constructed for an orbiter will be done so to state code.

But you could ask the same question about Kennedy Space Center and hurricanes, and the Smithsonian and Intrepid about blizzards and ice storms (if memory serves correctly, a heavy snowfall soon after the Udvar-Hazy opened in 2003 resulted in the roof needing repair).

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 04-12-2011 01:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As I've posted before, there's a cruise ship port blocks from Intrepid. There's now a potential for people who have never seen a shuttle to do so, by tying in a shore excursion to Intrepid either before or after a voyage. The cruise port in Brooklyn is a hike to Times Square, but a pre- or post-cruise excursion is also not out of the realm of possibility.

Heck, if one is so inclined, one could fly into JFK and take mass transit to Intrepid and Enterprise.

MrSpace86
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posted 04-12-2011 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrSpace86   Click Here to Email MrSpace86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Johnson Space Center definitely was put down. It has to be political; if NASA would have kept two of the three flown orbiters, people would have said NASA is being selfish and all that.

But California? CLEARLY it was made to provide one to the west coast so they don't launch the offensive that Ohio seems to be launching. Who cares if the California Science Center has a flown spacecraft from every mission. Both Kansas and Texas also have that.

Oh well, at least Houston has a Saturn V.

I won't even touch the decision to put Enterprise in NY.

kr4mula
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posted 04-12-2011 01:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe NASA should take note: in several of the cities, the impending announcement (and the actual announcement) has been running continuously in the news. The L.A. Times has no mention of it at all on their homepage today (as of 2:30 EDT). I really wonder if the shuttles in NY and LA will actually draw more people in.

The Dayton Daily News, on the other hand, has an actual informative article, including some comments from our Congressman that seems to imply that Bolden shared some of the criteria for the selection, along with saying that the NMUSAF was fifth on the list.

OV-105
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posted 04-12-2011 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for OV-105   Click Here to Email OV-105     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is a shock to me that Endeavour will be in L.A.. I am just wondering if it will end up there or will they have an annex at LAX or Palmdale maybe?

I can't see getting a shuttle down to the CMSI. I know they are going to be taking down a sports arena, so maybe it will be going there.

I thought if one ended up in California we would get Enterprise. I am happy that Endeavour will be almost home since I got to see her when she was being built and her first landing at Edwards.

Michael Ritter
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posted 04-12-2011 02:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Michael Ritter   Click Here to Email Michael Ritter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As a NYer I am both surprised and excited that Intrepid is getting Enterprise.

Long Island, only a few miles to the east, has a rich history in aviation and space travel and Intrepid has played important roles in early spaceflight. Once you add in the potential tourists coming to see her only a few blocks away from the 'Crossroads of the World' it does seem like a good decision.

However, I was just recently at the Intrepid and was quite disappointed in the condition of the aircraft placed on her flight deck. Flat tires, glazed cockpits, chipping paint and other issues, I was quite disheartened to see it all. I understand they are exposed to the elements and are on top of saltwater but I thought there would be better conservation to the planes.

The thought of an orbiter coming there made me think twice, were they a good location if picked? I hope they do what needs to be done and preserve Enterprise and the proposed glass building is sufficient.

tegwilym
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posted 04-12-2011 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MrSpace86:
I won't even touch the decision to put Enterprise in NY.
You and me both.

Aztecdoug
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posted 04-12-2011 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aztecdoug   Click Here to Email Aztecdoug     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, I didn't think they would really follow my Mickey Mouse theory of placing orbiters in Epcot and California Adventure near the Soarin' rides.

Looks like they came close though. One reasonably close to Disney World and one 30 odd miles from Disneyland. Who is going to argue that Washington DC isn't a Mickey Mouse organization either?

NYC though... okay, I like to visit there for work and play more than any other place in the US so what the heck.

I sort of feel sorry for Seattle though. Mostly for Tom's sake... but they have a real nice museum too.

What are we gonna do? These decisions are made by people smarter than we are. Right?

As for the LA Times... well, I stopped following them closely about 20 years ago when they were late getting the basketball scores from the night before into the morning paper consistently. Their reporters do think highly of themselves though.

Greggy_D
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posted 04-12-2011 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greggy_D   Click Here to Email Greggy_D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am completely shocked that Dayton was passed over. Unbelievable.

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posted 04-12-2011 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for isaacada1   Click Here to Email isaacada1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, nice wrap up article on the shuttles. Any plans to write another article that lists where every Space Shuttle related items will be going to what museum? You reported last year about the Space Shuttle trainers and where they're going. I have a bunch of people asking me what are all the space shuttle items are going and I'd like to send them just to "one" article the lists where everythings going, or when it will be announced where it's going.

Here in Seattle, there were a lot of sad faces today. The Museum of Flight along with some 20+ organizations across the USA were disappointed with the decision. I'm just happy that there's at least shuttle coming to the west coast. I do feel bad about the midwest. I'm looking forward to heading to California and returning to Florida to see the shuttles there.

As for New York, not going to touch that subject. Long Island has a proud history of aerospace being the home of Grumman. I hope they can do better for the shuttle then they've done with the Concorde. Yes, you can be the number one tourist destination city in America(would love to know the source of this). However, preserving historical items is sometimes best done at other locations.

MarylandSpace
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posted 04-12-2011 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MarylandSpace   Click Here to Email MarylandSpace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My tuppence (two cents) of thought:

I was hoping that #3 would go to Dayton (my second alltime favorite museum behind NASM) and that #4 would go to Seattle as I hear they have a world class facility.

I do hope to make the LA trip someday as I have already seen #4 at NASM.

Was it a committee that ultimately made the decision?


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Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





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