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  Exhibiting NASA's retired shuttle orbiters (Page 4)

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Author Topic:   Exhibiting NASA's retired shuttle orbiters
kr4mula
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posted 12-16-2009 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thump:
...does length of runway, and weight come in to play?
Sure the runway specs are important. They need a way to get the shuttle to whatever museum gets them.

For example, the Air Force Museum has its own runway as a legacy of its Wright Field origins, but it was designed for WWII-era (and earlier as a grass strip) aircraft, so it currently isn't up to spec for a shuttle/SCA combo landing there. That's how most of the flying aircraft make it to the museum (like a C-141 recently). I heard that the SCA could fit with some runway upgrades or else waivers of the landing safety margins.

The other half of Wright-Patterson AFB has a great SAC-era runway quite capable of taking the shuttle, but then they have to haul the orbiter down to the museum and worry about overpasses, power lines, etc.

GACspaceguy
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posted 12-16-2009 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I work with the fellow who flew the BI-B into Air Force Museum runway. Just made it in and knew that they could not fly it out (nor would they need to. So getting the SCA out may be the big issue.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-15-2010 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA release
NASA Revises Cost and Schedule for Displaying Retired Shuttles

NASA has issued a follow-up Request for Information, or RFI, for ideas from education institutions, science museums and other appropriate organizations about the community's ability to acquire and publicly display orbiters after the conclusion of the Space Shuttle Program.

The original RFI in December 2008 noted that a potential shuttle recipient would have to pay an estimated $42 million for the cost of "safeing" an orbiter, preparing it for display and ferrying it to a U.S. destination airport. NASA has updated the requirements and tasks needed to make each orbiter safe for disposition. The agency will not ask recipients to provide the funds for this activity. Except for cost and scheduled delivery changes, the 2008 and 2010 RFIs are virtually the same. In this follow-up RFI, NASA revised the estimated display preparation and ferrying costs to $28.8 million.

The schedule for transferring the orbiters may be six months earlier than originally anticipated. NASA also desires to make selections a year before receipt of the orbiters, so recipient organizations will have sufficient time to conduct any fundraising activities necessary to support preparation and ferry costs.

RFI responses are due to NASA by 11:59 p.m. EST on Friday, Feb. 19, 2010. Organizations that responded to the original RFI do not need to resubmit a full response, but should clarify their positions with respect to these changes.

NASA is planning to transfer space shuttle Discovery to the National Air and Space Museum. Shuttle orbiters Endeavour and Atlantis will be available for placement no earlier than July, 2011.

See also the collectSPACE News article: NASA cuts price for retired space shuttles

Rob Joyner
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posted 01-15-2010 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rob Joyner   Click Here to Email Rob Joyner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now that NASA has slashed the price to only $28.8 million each I think we should consider it. If we paid just $500 each we'd only need 57,600 members! So let's all get crackin' on that membership drive!

I vote for Endeavour! She has less miles than Atlantis!

MCroft04
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posted 01-15-2010 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MCroft04   Click Here to Email MCroft04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rob, great idea! I'm sure we can get some stimulus dollars. And if we reconfigure my house, we could almost fit it in.

OV-105
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posted 01-17-2010 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for OV-105   Click Here to Email OV-105     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wonder what will happen if they can't get the cash for a used Shuttle? Keep all three in in the OPF and run a tour to see them?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-17-2010 07:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Based on the organizations that replied to the original Dec. 2008 RFI, I think it is almost a certainty that Atlantis and Endeavour will not become hangar queens (the Smithsonian has already begun planning to receive Discovery).

stsmithva
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posted 01-17-2010 07:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stsmithva   Click Here to Email stsmithva     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Smithsonian already has Enterprise at Udvar-Hazy. Will Discovery be placed there also? Surely it wouldn't fit at NASM in DC.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-17-2010 08:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Discovery will be taking Enterprise's place at the Udvar-Hazy and Enterprise will be loaned by the Smithsonian to another museum, to be named as part as NASA's selection process for Atlantis and Endeavour (as noted in the revised RFI, "NASA may also have the opportunity to place an unflown Orbiter for display in addition to the two retired Orbiters discussed...").

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-27-2010 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The orbiters won't be going to New Mexico, reports UPI.
Officials at New Mexico space museums said two NASA space shuttle orbiters are too expensive for their facilities, despite a drop in price to $28.8 million.

Monte Marlin, spokeswoman for the White Sands Missile Range, said the facility would welcome space shuttle orbiters Endeavour and Atlantis, but the reduction in price from $42 million to $28.8 million isn't steep enough of a discount to make them affordable, the Albuquerque Journal reported Wednesday.

...Mike Smith, registrar at the New Mexico Museum of Space History in Alamogordo, said the price tag is also well out of his museum's range.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-28-2010 05:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
KPRC video: Houston Hopes To Keep Shuttle Here
Three space shuttles will be used for educational purposes and Houston hopes to keep one here. Carl Willis reports.

kr4mula
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posted 02-02-2010 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A recent article from the Dayton Daily News on some recent thinking from the national Museum of the US Air Force.
If NASA eventually awards a space shuttle to the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force for permanent display, there is still another issue to be decided: where the shuttle would be landed when it is flown to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-16-2010 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
KTUL-TV Tulsa: Museum Lobbies DC For Shuttle
Next Monday, [the Tulsa Air and Space Museum will] boldly go to the strange world of politics.

"It's going to be a very political decision, so we are heading to Washington D.C. We're going to talk to a number of senators and representatives, not just from the state of Oklahoma, from the region and try to create a coalition of folks that would support us getting a space shuttle."

tegwilym
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posted 02-16-2010 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks like we have something similar here in Washington State to get a shuttle here in Seattle. I'd be a big supporter of this for sure.

thump
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posted 03-01-2010 08:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for thump   Click Here to Email thump     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While volunteering at the downtown National Air and Space Museum yesterday, a visitor had just returned from the Hazy center and informed us that NASA was there inspecting the flightwothiness of Enterprise, and while there had the crew hatch opened, giving a supposedly good view into the mid-deck and flight-deck. Not sure how long this hatch will remain open...

Robert Pearlman
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posted 03-05-2010 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Puget Sound Business Journal: Museum of Flight weighs a high-stakes bid to land one of three shuttles slated for retirement
The Museum of Flight's board must decide within weeks whether to build a $12 million glass gallery to display one of three available space shuttles -- nine months before NASA will decide which museums will get one of the famous spacecraft.

The Seattle museum's board is wrestling with the gamble of building a home for a space shuttle that it may not get, said Bonnie Dunbar, museum president and CEO. Dunbar is a former astronaut who flew five shuttle missions.

But the museum has little choice. NASA won't consider donating a shuttle to a museum unless it has a display pavilion completed before the shuttle arrives...

Jay Chladek
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posted 03-05-2010 08:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not exactly crazy about an orbiter being displayed vertically, as proposed by the Tulsa Air and Space Museum. It may save horizontal floor space, but to me, there are just a few risks involved with raising it vertical and can it really stay in a vertical state for many years? At most, I think an orbiter has been vertical maybe four months. As such, I really hope Tulsa goes for the horizontal approach if they opt to get one (long shot in my opinion).

I personally think Seattle should make a try for Enterprise since its history is linked with that of the Boeing 747 to become the world's largest air launched vehicle (since Buran's analog was jet powered, it wasn't air launched).

The USAF Museum in my opinion should get one as ironically enough they flew more Department of Defense (DoD) missions after Challenger then before (I believe they manifested six flights after 51L). Plus, it was DoD involvement and funding that dictated the shuttle's capabilities and thus its configuration (such as the high cross range capability). Plus, planned DoD use got the Soviets to build Buran to try and counter it and a lot of people consider Buran to be one of those projects that contributed to the downfall of the Soviet Union since it was so expensive a project.

All shuttle pilots have also either been military members or retired military (but joined NASA when they were still military).

Robert Pearlman
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posted 03-15-2010 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
collectSPACE Photo Gallery:
How to display a retired space shuttle

...some of the 20 organizations vying for an orbiter have released concepts for how they plan to exhibit a retired shuttle, should they receive one.

Tykeanaut
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posted 03-17-2010 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tykeanaut   Click Here to Email Tykeanaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wonder, does anyone think or know if a shuttle may go on tour after retirement? A visit to the UK would be very welcome!

OV-105
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posted 03-17-2010 10:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for OV-105   Click Here to Email OV-105     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tykeanaut:
I wonder, does anyone think or know if a shuttle may go on tour after retirement? A visit to the UK would be very welcome!

One rumor is the last flight will land at Edwards. Then they will use the ferry flight to fly it around the different NASA centers. I do not see an overseas tour. A waste of money and a chance at a loss of an orbiter.

GoesTo11
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posted 03-17-2010 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes... I sympathize with our overseas friends who have never seen an orbiter "in person," but I'm guessing to do so you'll have to cross the pond yourself. Any kind of transcontinental trip or tour would be an expensive, somewhat risky, and logistically complex undertaking. I don't see it happening.

The thought did get me wondering, though... Has the SCA/orbiter ever appeared on non-US soil? If so, I can't recall it.

drjeffbang
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posted 03-17-2010 01:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for drjeffbang   Click Here to Email drjeffbang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
collectSPACE Photo Gallery: How to display a retired space shuttle
Those are some interesting display concepts, although I don't care for the vertical display idea.

Udvar-Hazy really did it right in my opinion. Enterprise is an overwhelming display. We were there on Saturday, and you always overhear people remark when they see it "Wow, I had no idea the shuttle was so big!?"

I am fortunate to live two hours from Udvar-Hazy but I encourage everyone to try and visit. Even if you just have a layover at Dulles Int'l, try to get a few hours to go see the Air and Space Museum.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 03-17-2010 01:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GoesTo11:
The thought did get me wondering, though... Has the SCA/orbiter ever appeared on non-US soil? If so, I can't recall it.
Enterprise, atop the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft, traveled to the 1983 Paris Air Show and then toured Europe and Canada before returning to the United States.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 03-27-2010 06:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum, with the help of the New York media, are staging a full court press to bring an orbiter to Manhattan.

kr4mula
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posted 03-29-2010 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Obviously I'm biased, but I can't see the utility in having all three orbiters on the East Coast: NYC, NASM, and KSC. I don't see NASA going for that either, so who loses out? Or does one get Enterprise? New York would certainly have a large audience (and media coverage!) and big pocket books, so you can't discount their effort.

Incidentally, there's a new Facebook group called "Bring the Shuttle to Dayton!" that can always use members.

tegwilym
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posted 03-29-2010 03:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kr4mula:
Obviously I'm biased, but I can't see the utility in having all three orbiters on the East Coast: NYC, NASM, and KSC.
I'll have to see if there is a "Bring shuttle to Seattle" group. We know Seattle would be the best place, and we have the 10,000 foot runway for the delivery.

Yeah, I've said it all before, but I want one here... and not Enterprise.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 05-21-2010 01:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Adler joins the game, the Air Force ups the ante, and Pima folds.
  • Chicago Tribune
    Space shuttle could land on Northerly Island
    If Paul Knappenberger's plans unfold as he envisions, the Adler Planetarium's parking lot will sprout a shiny glass building to house an out-of-this-world exhibit. In fact, the focus of that future exhibit might be orbiting Earth right now: the space shuttle Atlantis.
  • Kettering-Oakwood Times
    Astronauts request shuttle be brought to Museum
    A group of 18 former astronauts asked NASA Administrator Charles F. Bolden, Jr., to select the National Museum of the United States Air Force outside Dayton, Ohio, for a retired space shuttle when that program ends later this year....

    Among the astronauts was Lt. Gen. Thomas P. Stafford, U.S.A.F (Ret.), who flew two Gemini missions and commanded Apollo 10 in May 1969, which included the first flight of the lunar module to the moon.

    One of the signers, Dr. Kathryn Sullivan, was the first American woman to walk in space. Another signer, Brig. Gen. Charles Moss Duke, Jr., U.S.A.F. (Ret.) walked on the moon as part of the Apollo 16 mission.

    Another Ohio astronaut, former Senator John Glenn, Jr., sent a separate letter to NASA supporting the shuttle coming to the Air Force museum.

  • Arizona Daily Star
    Air museum scrubs bid to get shuttle for $28.8M
    The Pima Air and Space Museum survived the first two rounds of proposals to host one of the soon-to-be retired space shuttles, but withdrew after concluding the cost of acquiring one was too high.

Fezman92
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posted 05-21-2010 01:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can see Patterson getting a shuttle. If no one is going to take the Enterprise, I would gladly take it.

fireflyer21
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posted 05-21-2010 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fireflyer21   Click Here to Email fireflyer21     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It would be a crime against all things aviation to have a shuttle displayed so close to the remains of murdered Meigs Field. Wherever the shuttles are displayed, they should inspire people to think of wonder of aviation and space flight. Thanks to Boss Daley, that land serves the opposite purpose now.

Not that I'm bitter or anything.

MrSpace86
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posted 05-21-2010 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrSpace86   Click Here to Email MrSpace86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it's simple:

Enterprise - US Space and Rocket Center (with a Saturn V)

Discovery - Steven F. Udvar Hazy Air and Space Museum

Atlantis - Kennedy Space Center (with a Saturn V)

Endeavour - Johnson Space Center (with a Saturn V)

The Space Shuttles should stay with the buildings that served them the most, not far away from them. It would make more sense to have them close to the Saturn V's.

As for Columbia and Challenger, they should have some of the components displayed at ALL the places where they have Space Shuttle orbiters.

kr4mula
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posted 05-24-2010 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While it might be convenient from a tourist's perspective to have NASA's major exhibits (the Saturn Vs and the orbiters) all together, I can't see NASA placing everything in the Southeastern U.S. By necessity, NASA is also a political entity, so spreading the goodwill to other states is probably in its cards.

Fezman92
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posted 05-24-2010 01:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are there any current or soon to be current aircraft carrier museum ships that are long enough to land the shuttle?

albatron
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posted 05-24-2010 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for albatron   Click Here to Email albatron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I was at the Excellence in Aviation awards in LA a couple of weeks ago, MGEN David Eichorn, commander at Edwards announced his plan.

The last shuttle to land at Edwards, he will hold hostage and exchange it for the Enterprise to be displayed at the Flight Trest Museum (and AF Museum) at Edwards.

Sounded good to me. After all, what better place to display the Enterprise than where it flew?

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 05-24-2010 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Which means in order for the Intrepid Sea-Air-Space Museum in NYC to get an Orbiter, they would have to land a Shuttle on an aircraft carrier... which has a deck full of aircraft.

Fra Mauro
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posted 05-25-2010 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fra Mauro   Click Here to Email Fra Mauro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Even though I'm from NY, I can't see a shuttle displayed near the Intrepid. It's not in a convenient location, the area itself is not a pleasant one and the Shuttle would just be another attraction in the city. There are more dignified places, for example, the Air Force Museum. Besides, people in the city could care less about NASA.

I concur that destroying Meigs Field was terrible.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-06-2010 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Space Center Houston release
Space Center Houston targets acquisition of retired shuttle

Houston area business leaders and philanthropists aim to ensure that the NASA Johnson Space Center provides a permanent home for one of three retiring space shuttles at the city's premiere tourist destination, Space Center Houston.

The fate of one of space exploration's most heralded vehicles awaits the decision of NASA Administrator Charles F. Bolden, Jr., expected early this summer. Approximately 20 venues across the nation are vying to be the final landing spot for a shuttle. Currently, Discovery is slated to reside with the National Air and Space Museum at the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center. Still undecided are locations for Atlantis and Endeavour.

The logical choice

For area advocates, Houston is the logical location for a retired shuttle. The NASA Johnson Space Center is the home of Mission Control and the Astronaut Corps. Since the early 1970s, JSC designed, developed, managed and controlled the Space Shuttle Program. During that time, the program forged a multi-generation connection to the Houston area with more than 20,000 professionals currently employed in the local space industry.

If the Houston site is selected, the shuttle would reside at Space Center Houston. The official visitor center for JSC, Space Center Houston ranks as one of the state's top tourist attractions with more than 750,000 visitors each year. Operated by the Manned Space Flight Education Foundation, Inc., Space Center Houston is dedicated to telling the story of human space flight experiences - its history, present programs and missions, and the future - through interactive, educational experiences.

The 184,300 square-foot facility is home to numerous pieces of historic space hardware from flown Mercury, Gemini and Apollo capsules, the Skylab trainer, astronaut flight suits and much more.

A lasting impact

According to Robert F. Hodgin, University of Houston-Clear Lake associate professor of economics, this new attraction at Space Center Houston has the potential to produce an estimated $45 million in additional annual regional economic impact, generating another $29 million in business value and over 750 jobs in the area.

"Bringing a shuttle home to Houston is good for our regional economy, and it would allow us to enhance our mission of education and advocacy for the space program," said Richard Allen, president and chief executive officer of Space Center Houston. "We are uniquely qualified and ready to expand our visitor experience for the general public and through our educational programs with a new attraction focused solely on the space shuttle hardware and program history."

Working to make it happen

Space Center Houston officials are planning the first major expansion of the facility since its opening in 1992 to showcase the shuttle. The new 53,000 square-foot exhibit will be a highlight for encouraging student interest and commitment to science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) education.

"Space science is abstract and a challenge for many students to comprehend," Allen said. "The presence of a space shuttle would serve as the catalyst to promote understanding and inspiration."

As the nation's fourth-largest city, Houston provides convenient access to an array of potential visitors. Space Center Houston is working, along with the Bay Area Houston Economic Partnership and other partners across the state, to ensure Space Center Houston is a strong competitor for a space shuttle.

Allen said, "We submitted our official Request for Intent more than a year ago and have since conducted a capital campaign feasibility study and generated facility designs and programmatic concepts. We also established a formal subcommittee from our foundation Board to focus on more detailed relocation requirements, manage a capital campaign and oversee the effort should we be a selected site."

The subcommittee is chaired by Houston area commercial real estate executive Fred Griffin and includes regional business leaders George DeMontrond III, Frans Gillebaard, Ron Kapche and Jim Reinhartsen.

Fezman92
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posted 06-06-2010 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wonder if any of the places that get the shuttles will let you inside them. That would be cool, getting your photo sitting in the pilot's chair.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-06-2010 09:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While I am sure many of us would absolutely love to have our photos taken in an orbiter's crew cabin, it would incredibly irresponsible of any museum to allow such to happen.

Just as you cannot climb into a Mercury, Gemini or Apollo spacecraft, or for that matter sit in the Enola Gay or climb aboard the Wright Flyer, Discovery, Atlantis and Endeavour are just as deserving of the protections afforded to our nation's most historic craft.

There are plenty of replica crew cabins already located in museums and at space camps that can serve the photo opp purpose without risking damage to the three space-flown orbiters.

Fezman92
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posted 06-06-2010 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
True.

kr4mula
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posted 06-07-2010 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While I could see it being difficult to arrange to get into the cockpit, I could imagine a museum creating a setup where you could get into the cargo bay. Steps up and over the side, and a plexiglas-type covering all over the inside so you could walk up and down the bay. Or else just steps down in, a small platform inside, and steps back out, that way you could build the structure so that it is self supporting and nothing is actually touching the orbiter.


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