Posts: 57 From: New Jersey, US Registered: May 2012
posted 09-22-2012 05:56 PM
Looks to be a pretty sizable chunk from that clip. Could it have caused critical damage to the LM or CSM had it not followed a harmless course?
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 09-23-2012 09:12 AM
It seems like an unusual direction of travel for something that came off the spacecraft.
ilbasso Member
Posts: 1522 From: Greensboro, NC USA Registered: Feb 2006
posted 09-23-2012 11:03 AM
Perhaps one of the LM thrusters facing toward the CM impinged on the CM and "liberated" a loose piece of insulation. Given the roughly 45 degree angle of the CM's sides relative to the LM's upward-facing thrusters, a blast from the LM thruster would bounce off the CM and travel away at a 90 degree angle from the direction of the original thruster firing.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 09-23-2012 08:33 PM
Maybe the object broke off the retractable spotlight which is located on the SM just below the CM/SM interface near window 5. You can see the spotlight in this photo.
model maker Member
Posts: 130 From: NEVADA , USA Registered: May 2012
posted 09-27-2012 03:27 PM
I was looking at this Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter video of the Apollo 17 landing site and something caught my eye. On the progress bar, right at the 58 second marker on the video, I saw what looks like very LARGE letters carved into the lunar dust.
At the 57 second mark, pause the video and at the very top right hand side next to the rovers tracks it looks like a large S and a C. The letters are facing top to bottom so turn your head sideays a little. The C almost looks like an E but more of a C.
I wonder if the astronauts Schmitt and Cernan did this or is it just an optical illusion? Look very close next to the rovers tracks at the top right hand side at the 58 second mark then pause it.
tegwilym Member
Posts: 2331 From: Sturgeon Bay, WI Registered: Jan 2000
posted 09-27-2012 03:41 PM
I do see that. The letters look thicker as if they traced the footprints back again to keep the letters intact? I wonder?
If I knew this last week, I could have asked Gene at the Museum of Flight Gala!
We know that that he did write "Tracy" in the dust for his daughter...
model maker Member
Posts: 130 From: NEVADA , USA Registered: May 2012
posted 09-27-2012 03:52 PM
When to pause it at the 57-58 mark, the share line covers it. you have to move it slowly until the 2 letters "S" "C" are at the very far top right corner. It comes up right after they show the LRV with the astronaut sitting on it. I am very curious about this because it does look like intentional initials carved into the lunar surface.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 43749 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 09-27-2012 04:00 PM
It's an optical illusion formed by shadows from craters and the terrain. You can see that clearly by the LROC's Apollo 17 flip book that shows the progression of the sun across the landing site.
model maker Member
Posts: 130 From: NEVADA , USA Registered: May 2012
posted 09-27-2012 04:16 PM
There is a line of tracks that veer off into the area that connects to the lower "C."
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 10-06-2012 06:33 PM
This close-up view of John Young is spectacular in high-resolution. The photo was taken at the end of EVA-3. You can see that the release strap for the PLSS tool carrier is no longer attached to his LEVA helmet.
schnappsicle Member
Posts: 396 From: Houston, TX, USA Registered: Jan 2012
posted 10-12-2012 05:00 AM
quote:Originally posted by Headshot: The Apollo XVII LM ascent stage was intentionally impacted on South Massif, about 10 km from its original landing site.
Although it was no longer working, I would have loved to have seen the impact from the TV camera.
schnappsicle Member
Posts: 396 From: Houston, TX, USA Registered: Jan 2012
posted 10-12-2012 05:04 AM
quote:Originally posted by LM-12: Anyone know what this object photographed on Apollo 10 is?
I'm sure I'm totally wrong here, but it almost looks like something on the film itself, and not something in lunar orbit. I'd be very interested to see what the original film image looks like.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 10-12-2012 05:32 AM
I think it is the same object seen in the 16mm film clip.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 10-15-2012 02:30 AM
The top of the Apollo 13 SM can be seen in some detail in the high-resolution version of this photo taken shortly after SM separation.
This Apollo 13 LM jettison photo shows what looks like dust and dirt on top of the LM near the S-band and EVA antennas. That may or may not be debris from the SM oxygen tank explosion.
Jim Behling Member
Posts: 1502 From: Cape Canaveral, FL Registered: Mar 2010
posted 10-15-2012 10:19 AM
quote:Originally posted by LM-12: That may or may not be debris from the SM oxygen tank explosion.
No, that is just a reflection on the MLI.
sev8n Member
Posts: 238 From: Dallas TX USA Registered: Jul 2012
posted 10-15-2012 11:34 AM
quote:Originally posted by Jim Behling: No, that is just a reflection on the MLI.
I don't know what MLI is but those "reflections" appear to be casting shadows...
Jim Behling Member
Posts: 1502 From: Cape Canaveral, FL Registered: Mar 2010
posted 10-15-2012 12:48 PM
Sorry, was looking in a different area.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 10-21-2012 12:13 AM
The Apollo 17 LM Challenger can be seen in the distance above the large crater in this pan photo of Gene Cernan taken at Station 6 on EVA-3. The LRV camera was focused on Jack Schmitt with his visor up as he was taking this pan.
David Carey Member
Posts: 808 From: Registered: Mar 2009
posted 10-21-2012 12:46 PM
Many of these images make me miss film cameras a bit.
quote:Originally posted by LM-12: The Apollo 17 LM Challenger can be seen in the distance above the large crater in this pan photo
Not to give the conspiracy folks fodder but I'm curious about the single bright spot in the sky, at ~ 2 o'clock just above the right slope of the rightmost hill in the distance (you might need to zoom in to see). My understanding was no stars were ever visible/recordable during lunar daytime and the bright spot is more of an up-down line in any case. Seems too small to be a lens flare so perhaps just some dust or a scanning artifact.
model maker Member
Posts: 130 From: NEVADA , USA Registered: May 2012
posted 10-21-2012 12:58 PM
I think that some stars may be visible as in some photos there are some stars. I think it was either Apollo 15 or 17 when the sun was low as it was near lunar day and night.
On 15, when Scott is taking pictures standing in the top LEM tunnel, Mt. Hadley was still in the dark and lunar day cycle was just beginning I think. I think that depending on sun angle and brightness or lack of, would allow some stars to be visible.
It is just those nuts who know everything that even if you took them to the moon, they would be trying to convince you that the entire trip never happened. They overlook any proof provided by stating that "well who was holding the tv camera so they could pan up to see the LEM lift off the moon, that proves it was done in a warehouse somewhere." They don't have the basic common sense to realize that the tv camera was on the LRV and controlled by Houston.
I had one of these tell me that all the lunar photographs were all done by "Photoshop" in the 70's?
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 10-21-2012 01:46 PM
That single bright spot in photo 21600 does not show up in 21599 and 21601.
I wonder if a CSM flyover was ever caught by chance in the background of a photo taken on the lunar surface. Would the CSM look like a star or a streak in the image? How long would it take for the CSM to go from horizon to horizon?
David Carey Member
Posts: 808 From: Registered: Mar 2009
posted 10-22-2012 09:53 AM
No idea if it was ever possible to catch a reflection from the CM in orbit with any picture-taking but a really interesting thought.
If I did my crude geometry correctly (no sure bet) a CM flying overhead would take about 15 minutes to go from horizon to horizon, assuming a roughly 2hr CM lunar orbital period and 150km orbit altitude.
With a ~15-minute transit across the sky my sense is that any motion in the CM would be largely stopped in a sub-second exposure so I'd not expect a long streak.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 10-22-2012 12:29 PM
Thanks for that reply David. Richard Gordon said (in Astro Chat) that it should have been relatively easy for Conrad and Bean to spot his CM flying overhead if they were looking for it. I wonder if any of the moonwalkers saw a CM flyover.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 10-23-2012 04:40 PM
The blurred object at bottom-center in photo 21600 is part of the scoop. Schmitt was holding the scoop in his left hand when he took the pan. I believe that "32" refers to the camera number.
The Apollo 15 camera numbers are 31 and 38. The CDR camera can be seen in photo 11527, so 38 is the LMP camera number.
The Apollo 16 camera numbers are 33 and 39. The LMP camera can be seen in photo 18653, so 39 is the CDR camera number.
The Apollo 17 camera numbers are 23 and 32. The CDR camera can be seen in photo 21608, so 32 is the LMP camera number.
A15 CDR camera - number 31
A15 LMP camera - number 38
A16 CDR camera - number 39
A16 LMP camera - number 33
A17 CDR camera - number 23
A17 LMP camera - number 32
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 11-10-2012 04:50 PM
The Apollo 8 rollout was on October 9, 1968. The Apollo 7 launch was two days later on October 11, 1968. So Apollo 8 was on the pad when Apollo 7 launched.
The Apollo 8 launch vehicle on Pad 39A is hidden behind the launch exhaust of Apollo 7 in NASA photo 68PC-0164.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 11-14-2012 10:42 AM
This photograph taken a few seconds earlier shows both Apollo 7 and Apollo 8 in the same shot. NASA photo number unknown.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 12-03-2012 12:05 AM
quote:Originally posted by David Carey: a CM flying overhead would take about 15 minutes to go from horizon to horizon
It turns out that the CM was actually seen from the lunar surface. Charles Conrad saw the CM Yankee Clipper flying overhead about two hours after the LM Intrepid landed on the Moon. During post-landing activities, Conrad spotted the CM from inside the LM through the small rendezvous window above his head. That sighting is mentioned briefly at 112:26:40 GET in the Apollo 12 mission transcripts.
CDR: Hey, Houston. Intrepid has a visual on Yankee Clipper. CDR: Hey, Houston. Relay to Yankee Clipper I've got him visually. CC: Roger, Intrepid. Will do. CC: Clipper, Houston. CC: Clipper, for your info, Intrepid has a visual on you. CMP: Thank you.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 12-04-2012 03:53 AM
From the Apollo 12 Technical Debrief in Section 10:
BEAN: Star, Earth visibility was interesting. We could always see stars at the upper rendezvous window. We could see Dick go by us also.
David Carey Member
Posts: 808 From: Registered: Mar 2009
posted 12-04-2012 10:08 PM
Good digging. I suppose this raises the question of whether a time stamp exists on the referenced A17 'bright spot' picture such that it could be aligned (or not) to the CSM position overhead at that time?
It would be neat if such a chance capture on film could be moved into the 'Plausible' category, to borrow from Mythbusters terminology.
I'm not aware of where one might find such timing info - if it even exists - for either pictures taken or CSM orbital position.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 12-05-2012 06:43 AM
Photos are matched to the mission transcripts in the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal. The document indicates that Apollo 17 photo 21600 at Station 6 was taken around 165:00:58 into the flight. The mission commentary indicates that the CM in orbit was approaching LOS at 165:03 GET.
CAPCOM: Ron, everything looks good as we go here to LOS. No problems at all. Your buddies are down at Station 6 right now.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 12-05-2012 09:08 PM
The Station 6 pan taken by Jack Schmitt includes three photos that show a bright object in the sky just above the horizon. Compare photos 21592, 21596 and 21600. Since the CM was approaching LOS shortly after the pan was taken, those white dots in the sky might be the CM flying over Cernan and Schmitt at Station 6.
Peter downunder Member
Posts: 57 From: Lancefield, Victoria, Australia Registered: Apr 2012
posted 12-08-2012 07:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by LM-12: The LM Orion can also be seen in this 70mm colour photo which was also taken at Station 4. ...That would have been a long walk back to the LM if the rover had broken down.
This is a classic example of the lack of perspective on the moon.
Without the LM in the picture those rocks could be just a couple of meters away from the photographer. All amazing photographs. And happy 40th.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 12-21-2012 10:04 PM
You can even read the crew names on the Apollo 12 mission emblem in this high-resolution photo 7278 of Al Bean taken on EVA-2. Compare the visor reflection of Pete Conrad with photo 7071 which was taken not long after.
Rick Mulheirn Member
Posts: 4220 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
posted 12-22-2012 04:00 AM
Photo # 7071 may not be quite as clear, but it is cler enough to show the Playboy pin-up on the cuff checklist.
Henry Heatherbank Member
Posts: 252 From: Adelaide, South Australia Registered: Apr 2005
posted 12-22-2012 04:22 AM
Did the guys get to keep their Omegas? (Just above the Playboy pin-up)
Captain Apollo Member
Posts: 260 From: UK Registered: Jun 2004
posted 12-22-2012 05:09 AM
Why did Apollo 12 seem to take so many pictures in black and white compared to the other missions?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 43749 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 12-22-2012 06:20 AM
quote:Originally posted by Henry Heatherbank: Did the guys get to keep their Omegas?
Though the astronauts requested to keep their Speedmasters, NASA transferred ownership of all of them to the Smithsonian. The Smithsonian then loaned them back out to the astronauts to wear until the past decade, when all were recalled by the museum.
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 12-22-2012 05:49 PM
Apollo 12 was similar to Apollo 14. The EVA-1 photos are colour and the EVA-2 photos are black and white.
Captain Apollo Member
Posts: 260 From: UK Registered: Jun 2004
posted 12-28-2012 12:08 PM
Why? It seems an odd decision as color film doesn't weigh any more than B&W. It surely could not have been a cost issue. Why have one EVA photographed one way and another differently? why not one camera with each on both?
LM-12 Member
Posts: 3351 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
posted 12-28-2012 01:57 PM
A 70mm colour magazine was left on the lunar surface by mistake after EVA-2 on Apollo 12. That magazine was never used on the lunar surface. Pete Conrad mentions the magazine at 05 18 34 19 in the mission transcripts when he was back in the LM prior to liftoff.
Well, I got some bad news for you and some good news. In the first place, the third magazine was a color magazine, and all it had on it were some shots that were taken of earthrise and a few things like that coming around on descent; and, unfortunately, Al and I got our signals crossed, and it's outside on the lunar surface right now. Now, what we did was take the black-and-white magazine off of Al's camera when it failed and put it on my camera and used it up so that we have two complete black and whites on the second EVA and two complete colors of the first EVA, and the only thing that's missing is the color magazine that has undocking and a couple other mundane things like that on it at - at the beginning of the LM operation; and, unfortunately, that's out there in that saddle bag. We didn't catch that one.
posted 09-22-2012 05:56 PM
but I'm curious about the single bright spot in the sky, at ~ 2 o'clock just above the right slope of the rightmost hill in the distance (you might need to zoom in to see). My understanding was no stars were ever visible/recordable during lunar daytime and the bright spot is more of an up-down line in any case. Seems too small to be a lens flare so perhaps just some dust or a scanning artifact. 
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