|
Author
|
Topic: Mission patches for crews that never flew
|
dogcrew5369
Member Posts: 750
From: Statesville, NC
Registered: Mar 2009
|
posted 03-22-2012 08:34 PM
   
I saw a 61-G embroidered. Did Randy Hunt make that too? |
mama04
Member Posts: 151
From: Haarlem, N-H, Netherlands
Registered: Sep 2010
|
posted 03-23-2012 04:34 AM
They were made by Randy Hunt as a special 'order' from Erik van der Hoorn as far as I know. If you look closely at images of the embroidered replicas, you can actually see the initials 'E' and 'H' embroidered into them. |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
|
posted 03-23-2012 05:54 AM
I am not proud of it... I had just 'met' Randy on the web and he asked me if I had the artwork of these missions for him, which I indeed had. I made the drawings myself, based on very small magazine images and in some places, I had to make some guesses. He produced the patches and as a special surprise to 'thank' me, he added my initials. Oh, and he next offered me the patches for a very 'special' price of $35 or so each.
|
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
|
posted 03-27-2012 02:43 PM
I always wondered the relationship between when a patch is created and approved v. when the crew is announced (or more likely, when the crew photo is taken), especially in the mid '80s when shuttle flights were coming in rapid succession and crews were changing just as fast.For example, at the time of Challenger, the artwork for 61E through G were approved, yet 61H and 62A were not - and both of the latter had been in training for about a year and payload specialists had been assigned. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
|
posted 03-27-2012 04:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dogcrew5369:
Wasn't the STS-118 Anderson patch produced by AB Emblem and then changed to Drew before the flight? Wouldn't this patch count just like other unflown crew change patches?
To my knowledge it was produced by AB (although I do not have an example). Same thing would likely apply to STS-117 patches that do not have the "Anderson" tab added to the bottom of them. I've even encountered a couple posters with the original STS-118 patch on them (and some were printed long after the missions flew). |
J Blackburn
Member Posts: 224
From: Riner, Virginia USA
Registered: Sep 2011
|
posted 03-27-2012 10:36 PM
They both were made by AB Emblem. The quantity of how many each of the STS-117 with no tab and STS-118 Anderson is unknown to me. In my opinion there are not many out there. I have two STS-117's and one STS-118 Anderson and all three were hard to come by, especially the 118 Anderson. AB Emblem is very helpful and may be able to give a number as to how many were made. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42984
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
|
posted 03-27-2012 11:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by J Blackburn:
In my opinion there are not many out there.
The tab-less STS-117 patch was available from AB Emblem (and its retailers) beginning in September 2006. The decision to change the crew was made seven months later in April 2007 (and then it was another couple of months before the revised patch began shipping). AB Emblem's STS-118 "Anderson" patch was first seen in December 2006. It was for sale and available to collectors beginning in January 2007. The crew change (as above) came in April, and the revised patch went for sale in July. I don't doubt that finding the tab-less STS-117 and "Anderson" STS-118 patches was difficult after the change was made, but there were several months when both were in ready supply. |
dogcrew5369
Member Posts: 750
From: Statesville, NC
Registered: Mar 2009
|
posted 03-28-2012 04:41 AM
I bought both the tabless 117 and Anderson 118 off of the Skyforce patch site back then. I didn't think they would be hard to come by. Think I will hold on to mine. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
|
posted 03-28-2012 05:43 AM
I may have put my extra STS-86 photos in the East Coast grab box, but I could of sworn there's some pics of the crew postflight with tabless 86 patches on their blue flightsuits. |
J Blackburn
Member Posts: 224
From: Riner, Virginia USA
Registered: Sep 2011
|
posted 03-30-2012 08:57 PM
Did AB Emblem produce an STS-51C patch without the "Payton" tab? Does anyone know when he was added to the crew? I have one and it appears to be from the 1985 period and I cannot see where the tab has been removed. The patch is in really great condition. The patch appears thicker with a wider border than a newer 51C patch and the backing is the older style plastic backing. |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 596
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
|
posted 04-04-2012 02:12 PM
I just received the 118 Anderson patch from Skyforce (along with the 118 Drew and 117 with Anderson tab). Joe is a good guy and had them up on his site. When I found out they were rare/hard to find and the current going price was $15-20+, he was surprised.Also from a previous post, I have the 51E/Baudry tab in 4" version. So they are out there. Now to just find a 117 without the tab... |
J Blackburn
Member Posts: 224
From: Riner, Virginia USA
Registered: Sep 2011
|
posted 04-04-2012 02:27 PM
There are a couple listed on ebay without the Anderson tab. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
|
posted 04-04-2012 02:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo:
Also from a previous post, I have the 51E/Baudry tab in 4" version. So they are out there.
You say you have a STS-51E/Baudry only tab in 4" version. Is it the AB Emblem or Swissartex version? Can you post an image of it both back and front? I've only ever seen the Swissartex version. |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 596
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
|
posted 04-04-2012 03:30 PM
I'll see what I can do. I'm swamped tonight, so it will have to wait until tomorrow. It should be an AB version though. Bought it a long time ago and the place I got only sold "official" versions. Maybe I'm wrong? But I'm sure it's a 4" version. I'll post pics and more details as soon as I can. I'll dig it out tonight for sure though and update as soon as I can. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
|
posted 04-04-2012 04:38 PM
Many thanks Gonzo. Take a look at this thread for the only example of the Swissartex version ever to be found.No complete uncut examples of the AB Emblem version have ever been found yet. |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 596
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
|
posted 04-04-2012 05:35 PM
Thanks, Kevin. Now can't wait until I get home tonight to see what I actually have! I'll be sure to post tomorrow what I find. So stay tuned to this Bat-Channel for more details. Even if it is a Swisstarex, it will still be something special to have. |
mooncollector
Member Posts: 104
From: Alabama, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
|
posted 04-13-2012 10:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by J Blackburn:
I have two STS-117's and one STS-118 Anderson and all three were hard to come by, especially the 118 Anderson.
I know where you can find plenty of STS-118 Anderson patches. I was in the gift shop at Marshall Space Flight Center (Huntsville) last Monday afternoon and they had about a dozen on the rack. All the same, no Drew. I went through them all, trying to get the pick of the lot and only bought one. I had forgotten about that variant and didn't realize until I got home that I let 'em slip through my fingers. The only variant I really went looking for that I thought I could get was 133 Kopra and no go on that. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
|
posted 04-14-2012 11:38 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo:
Now can't wait until I get home tonight to see what I actually have!
Well, what did you find when you got home that night on the 4th April? You never posted the results. I'm intrigued to know the outcome. |
Tom
Member Posts: 1597
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
|
posted 04-14-2012 12:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dogcrew5369:
Wasn't the STS-118 Anderson patch produced by AB Emblem and then changed to Drew before the flight? Wouldn't this patch count just like other unflown crew change patches?
If I recall correctly, the Al Drew official NASA portrait shows him wearing the patch with Anderson's name! |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 596
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
|
posted 04-15-2012 06:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin T. Randall:
Well, what did you find when you got home that night on the 4th April?
Well, it took me a while, but here's the deal. I don't know about other collectors, but I keep an Excel spreadsheet that has evolved to about 20 worksheets (tabs) that I keep up so I know what I have in my "collection." This inventory showed that I had the Baudry only tab version. When I went to look at the actual versions of that patch, the patches themselves, I couldn't find it.Well, long story short, due to its value, a full inventory check was in order. I just finished that yesterday. The good news is, I found several other patches that I had, but weren't in my inventory. It was also a good review for me for what I did have, including finding several that were very limited runs (Orbital Experiments for example, I have one of 75.) I've been out of collecting for several years. Had to take a couple of very remote trips that altered my "hobby" for the time being. The bad news, for some reason and who knows when, I put the patch in my inventory inadvertently. That is, I don't have it. When I said I did, or at least when I said I was going to check when I got home, it was based on this wrong entry in my inventory. So, in the end, I'm with a lot of others that would love to add it to their collections. Sorry if I mislead anyone. I still don't know why I would have put it in the spreadsheet if I didn't have it. I mean, I had a serial number assigned to it and everything. Nor did I realize how valuable this patch was until I started reading this thread a couple of weeks ago. Oh well, at least I know my inventory is right ... NOW. (Too bad it wasn't when this started!) |
englau
Member Posts: 110
From: tampa, florida, usa
Registered: Mar 2012
|
posted 07-26-2012 09:37 AM
I am new to patch collecting and have been trying to do some research on the patches discussed on this thread. Could someone explain to me how many of each of these patches are generally produced and what the value to collectors is? I recently got a lot of patches offline and in it were about 20. Gonzo was very astute to point out that in the collection includes an STS-117 without the Anderson tab at the bottom. I already know some about the crews and the changed made, but very little in regards to the patch collection and procurement. I'm excited and am hoping to learn more about my first hard to find item in my little, growing collection of mission patches. Thanks so much! |
mooncollector
Member Posts: 104
From: Alabama, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
|
posted 01-25-2013 02:31 AM
I had the chance to go in the gift shop in Huntsville today and there are still STS-118 Anderson patches there on the patch rack. I have a feeling that they had a batch of them and have never sold them all, and that they have been there a LONG time.Regarding STS-117, how easy is it to just peel the tab off an AB emblems regular patch and pass it off as original? I suspect a lot of the ones on ebay without the tab are in that category unless they are in original packaging. Of course the 1st crew variation may be original and would never have come with a tab. I would question the 2nd (actual flight crew) variation unless it's sealed. I made that mistake tonight on ebay by pouncing on a tabless one that on closer inspection looks like it's actually a Hunt knockoff (black ribbing on the payload bay doors). But it would be easy to peel that tab off a 2nd crew version and pass it off as having come that way... I think. |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 596
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
|
posted 01-25-2013 04:49 AM
I think that would be difficult at best. With the way they are sewn on, ignoring for a moment that they are sealed on the back, I think it would be hard to do without doing damage to the base patch. If you then consider that AB patches are also sealed on the back, what are you going to do with the part that is now exposed and not sealed as the sealant is applied after the tab is sewn on?That to me is how to tell whether an AB patch had the tab or not. It's just too obvious. For example, I have a 41-G patch that clearly did not have the tab attached. So I have something for comparison of what you are suggesting. I'm not saying it can't be done, but from the example I have and when you consider how AB makes the patches, it would seem to me to be very difficult to fake. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure someone else will pipe in if they think so. |
mooncollector
Member Posts: 104
From: Alabama, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
|
posted 01-25-2013 08:53 PM
Thanks for that good info Gonzo! I bought a regular 117 AB example and looking at it more closely, the tab is indeed sewn on so yeah, altering it would be noticeable, along with the lack of plastic backing under where the tab would be.I now know what to look for in going after a tabless one. I have a feeling that the 1st crew variation tabless is still going to be the tougher one to find. |
butch wilks
Member Posts: 333
From: Lowestoft, Suffolk, UK
Registered: Mar 2007
|
posted 01-26-2013 08:23 AM
I am a bit confused here on the STS-117 patches as there three variations of this patch and not just two: - First is the original crew in dark blue with the black ribbing on the payload doors.
- Second had the crew charge in light blue with no black ribbing on the payload doors.
- Third as the second but with the Anderson tab in dark blue
I have all three of the STS-117 patches and the second variation type patches from the time of the mission with and without tab. I had them sent to me by Stewart Emblems at the time a few weeks a part. The second time I had in the second variation patch they sent me the patch and it had the Anderson tab in dark blue lose with the patch and I had to fit it.Looking at them as I do this, they are the same patch and not one of Randy's patches, but ones from AB. At the time it was a bit of a surprise to me as AB heat sealed the tabs to the patches but not on the ones I had in. Did the collectors in the UK or in the US get this too with the patches they got in at the time as I did? |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
|
posted 01-26-2013 11:55 AM
I too had the loose dark blue Anderson tab sent separate from the original patch from the same source, Stewart Aviation back at the time of the mission. |
mooncollector
Member Posts: 104
From: Alabama, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
|
posted 01-26-2013 08:59 PM
The plot thickens. There is right now the patch on eBay that I referred to which has the second crew, tabless, black ribbing on doors. That would be a FOURTH variation to add to the three Butch Wilks referenced, OR it's a Hunt repro. I follow the Spacepatches.nl site for guidance on these things and their pics indicate it could be the Hunt version. Could STS-117 turn out to be a poor man's version of the Jake Garn flight patch (51-D, or L, or whatever it turned out to be LOL)? All this fuss over a patch I originally thought was ugly and never intended to get! |
butch wilks
Member Posts: 333
From: Lowestoft, Suffolk, UK
Registered: Mar 2007
|
posted 01-27-2013 02:50 AM
Can I have the item number for that patch you are looking at please, as I have been looking for it on US and UK eBay and cannot see it. All I see are type 2 patches with tabs without the black ribbing and type 2 artwork with the black ribbing (sticker and so on but not the patch).As to the patch that Randy made I did not add this as a type 4 as it did not come from AB as the types 1, 2 and 3 did. But looking at the references I have on the patch we can add up to 10 types if you like, that I can see. As to making a fuss and the patch being ugly. Ugly; you can say that to a number of the STS patches, I know I do on seeing them for the first time but it not up to us but down to the crews. So I'll keep it to them. Fuss; I hope we all make a fuss too, as it helps out new collectors and old ones to to get info on the patches they are looking to get or have. (As I am on the tabs not being on the patches as I have.) So let's all keep making a fuss please. |
mooncollector
Member Posts: 104
From: Alabama, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
|
posted 01-27-2013 02:32 PM
The one I am talking about is eBay #160962817883. The more I look at it, the more I see how it likely is an AB product rather than the Hunt ones at the bottom of the Spacepatches listing. The TAIL of the orbiter has a "split" look, unlike the Hunt ones, and the ribbing appears from posts to be found on earlier AB versions (not on the new one I bought this week though)I am relatively new to this and yes, I am learning the "ropes", so believe me I do value the "fuss-making" as a way of making sure we all know exactly what we are to look for with these variations etc. |
Liembo
Member Posts: 583
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013
|
posted 02-05-2013 11:26 PM
I have a unique STS-101 patch (original crew) that I am wondering if anyone knows the origin of. The zig-zagged red, white and blue section of border at the 5 o'clock position is solid bars. The patch is 1/4" less tall than the full-size version, but all of the detail is identical, right down to the details on the ISS modules. Other, smaller 3" patches manage to get the zigging right, so it's not a technical shortcut. So why go through all of the rest of the work to get the ISS modules right but get lazy on the border?(I am not really sure what the ziggy section of the border actually depicts as the Russian and US flags are already represented.)  |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 596
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
|
posted 02-06-2013 08:13 AM
Interesting as you have three different variations on the STS-101 patch. Where:The top one is the pre-crew change one, with Lu, Malenchenko and Morukov, with the bars, not the "ziggy-zaggy" you refer to. The middle one is the same, pre-crew change, only with the "ziggy-zaggy". The bottom one is the post-crew change with Helms, Usachev and Voss. This is the "official" version. It too has the "ziggy-zaggy". I point this out because I have four or five of the pre-crew change ones at home. I'll have to look to see which version they are now - with or without the "ziggy-zaggy". My hunch is that the top two are variations of the original pre-crew change patch. However, you also mention that it is 1/4" shorter. That would lend me to believe that it possibly is from a different manufacturer. But of what we can see from your pic, all the other details look to be identical, indicating the same manufacturer. (Although there are a couple very slight differences in the shuttle between the top two.) Tell us, what are the backs like? Are they different? |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
|
posted 02-06-2013 12:37 PM
I have all three versions above, plus a fourth version, an original crew patch with the Shuttle wing protruding below the patch like in the revised crew version. All are AB Emblem patches as two of mine have the AB Emblem embeded labels under the plastic coatings. |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 596
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
|
posted 02-06-2013 12:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin T. Randall:
..,plus a fourth version, an original crew patch with the Shuttle wing protruding below the patch like in the revised crew version.
Thanks, Kevin. Do you mean like the bottom one?  |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42984
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
|
posted 02-06-2013 01:10 PM
I have one like Kevin's with the protruding wing; it's like the one pictured at bottom above but without the "101," which was added to the revised flown patch. |
Liembo
Member Posts: 583
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013
|
posted 02-06-2013 01:21 PM
The back of the odd patch is distinct from the other two (the white backing is the version of the crew that flew).It does have a thin clear coating on it, so it has a sheen to it.  |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
|
posted 02-06-2013 01:30 PM
Again, the backs of the three I have are identical to the ones you have just posted.Yes that is what I mean Gonzo, I have both the AB Emblem original crew and the revised crew patches with the Shuttle wing protruding below each patch. |
Liembo
Member Posts: 583
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013
|
posted 02-06-2013 01:32 PM
So what is the origin of the three solid bars on the slightly smaller version? I don't see any artwork that would indicate that this is a prototype. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
|
posted 02-06-2013 01:40 PM
You have got me there, I don't know, sorry. Does anyone else know? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42984
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
|
posted 02-06-2013 01:47 PM
For reference, here are my two: |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
|
posted 02-06-2013 02:06 PM
Mine have slightly darker plastic backs to them plus they both have the round white '800 438-4285 A-B Emblem abemblem.com' labels. |
advertisement