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Author Topic:   Gemini quality reproductions
lm5eagle
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posted 08-11-2007 01:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lm5eagle   Click Here to Email lm5eagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please may I be included as a client for a set of patches. Thank you.

embangloy
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Posts: 68
From: Hendersonville, TN, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 08-13-2007 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for embangloy   Click Here to Email embangloy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please put me down for a set of Gemini patches as well.

lucspace
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Posts: 257
From: Hilversum, The Netherlands
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 08-13-2007 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lucspace   Click Here to Email lucspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My preference is to produce Gemini 3 through 12, no NASA meatball though.

But I guess this is up to what the majority of potential buyers wants (thanks all who expressed an interest). I'll be updating my site soon, so watch out for more details.

JohnBerry
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From: Helotes, TX
Registered: Jul 2007

posted 08-13-2007 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JohnBerry   Click Here to Email JohnBerry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Luc, sounds like the votes are in! I think most people would prefer to have the entire set of Gemini patches, not just The Molly Brown from GT-3.

I'd also like a set of your repro patches -- please put me on the list!

Putting together a Molly Brown patch is sort of a personal pet project of mine and I'm pretty far along w/ the supplier, so I'm going to press forward. I'm not worried about the duplicated effort on my part, and you were planning to make one anyway, so it's a "wash" as we say in the States. Perhaps the patches I'm putting together will have a niche appeal among those who are Gus Grissom or John Young fans but don't want (or need) the rest of the Gemini reproductions.

To help distinguish the two versions, I'll change my hallmark from a "CS" to a "G" (for Gusmobile). I'll still offer them to CS'ers first, at near cost, but I'll make it clear they are NOT part of the Gemini reproduction patch project.

KAPTEC
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Posts: 500
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

posted 08-14-2007 03:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KAPTEC   Click Here to Email KAPTEC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd also like a set of your repro patches. Please don't forget to put me on the list! Thank you!

space4u
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Posts: 296
From: Cleveland, OH USA
Registered: Aug 2006

posted 08-14-2007 07:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for space4u   Click Here to Email space4u     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please count me in for a set of Gemini patches.

Lou Chinal
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From: Staten Island, NY
Registered: Jun 2007

posted 08-24-2007 12:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lou Chinal   Click Here to Email Lou Chinal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please count me in for a set! However you want to do it is fine with me. I been a space buff for a long time yet I never saw the Gemini 4 American Eagle before. Molly Brown for Gemini 3, American flag for Gemini 4. Whatever you want to do sounds good to me. A NASA meatball sounds good too, It's been a long time coming.

KSCartist
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Posts: 2488
From: Titusville, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 08-24-2007 07:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll definitely take a set. Looking forward to your next project update.

Harald Kraenzel
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Posts: 283
From: Dinslaken,Germany
Registered: Nov 2005

posted 08-25-2007 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harald Kraenzel   Click Here to Email Harald Kraenzel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hopefully I am still on the list. I wish to take two sets.

Space Emblem Art
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Posts: 163
From: Citrus Heights, CA - USA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 08-26-2007 11:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Emblem Art   Click Here to Email Space Emblem Art     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please keep me on the list too. I'm good for at least one set.

astroborg
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Posts: 170
From: Woodbridge, VA, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-27-2007 08:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for astroborg   Click Here to Email astroborg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Count me in for at least one set. Thank you for your work in making this happen!

sfurtaw
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Posts: 93
From: Saginaw, MI USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 09-13-2007 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sfurtaw   Click Here to Email sfurtaw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I noticed in the Heritage Auction Galleries on ebay, there is a listing for 25286: Gemini 4 Flown Fliteline Sterling Silver Medal. The image on the medal is the same as the Gemini IV patch in McDivitt's showcase at Michigan's Own Military & Space Museum (as shown earlier in this topic).

Is the plan to include this patch in the set? Either way, please count me in, also.

lucspace
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Posts: 257
From: Hilversum, The Netherlands
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 09-26-2007 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lucspace   Click Here to Email lucspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well guys, the challenge has become a bit bigger.

I recently met with my manufacturer (the guy who owns the firm that produced the Spaceview patches until a couple of years ago). His verdict on our plans: very hard to do on modern machines.

In his opinion, it will be impossible to recreate the 'uneven' effect of stitching that was so typical of embroidery machines from the sixties.

Also, these machines made bigger stitches than current ones, and used cotton thread that was substantially thicker ans shinier than modern polyester yarn.

I think we might get away with the patches that were not 100% embroidered; that leaves Gem 9. 10 and 12 as problem cases...

The only solution to this situation my patchmaker could come up with; find an embroidery company that still operates Shiffley embroidery machines. It is the only way to approach the 'old fashioned look' that we need for quality repro's.

There must be at least one US manufacturer still doing that; it is providing the US Army with patches.

So, do any of you out there in the States know of a manufacturer who has a functioning Shiffley machine available for private, small run orders? Perhaps AB still has one stashed away in its basement? ;o)

I will try to update my site soon, providing photo's and measurements of all original Gemini patches. At least we'll have a decent record of the original patches we are so eager for...

Space Emblem Art
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Posts: 163
From: Citrus Heights, CA - USA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 09-26-2007 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Emblem Art   Click Here to Email Space Emblem Art     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Last I heard AB Emblem does have the Shiffley (sp?) machine(s), at least at their North Carolina, USA plant. I believe they made one of my Moonstar patches on a Shiffley machine a few years ago. Contact Leisa Parker at AB. She's my account rep. Her e-mail is: leisa@abemblem.com. I have a U.S. phone number for her but I'm not sure if I can post it here. If you want it e-mail me separately and I will send to you. Please tell her I said "hello". I hope this helps.

Steven Kaplan
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posted 09-26-2007 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steven Kaplan   Click Here to Email Steven Kaplan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For the record, the correct spelling is Schiffli.

embangloy
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Posts: 68
From: Hendersonville, TN, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 09-26-2007 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for embangloy   Click Here to Email embangloy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What about Space Country Souvenirs in Santa Maria, California?

benguttery
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Posts: 542
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 09-27-2007 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for benguttery   Click Here to Email benguttery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I emailed the owner of Texas Art Embroidery in Houston about this. He replied

"Nope, we do not operate schiffli machines... perhaps AB still does... not sure who else, perhaps Lions Brothers (don't know their where abouts) and possibly Hallmark in Tampa, Fla. (You may find them as a division of Martin Uniform). We can certainly do a better quality job than that which was done on schiffli's, however, your group probably wants to get as close to the schiffli quality as possible."

GoesTo11
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From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 10-15-2007 03:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've been following this project since the idea was first put forward, and after reading the last few updates, I'm going to risk incurring wrath by suggesting that it might now be appropriate to cite the engineer's maxim about not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

When Luc offered (very generously) to shepherd this project, I was under the impression that most of us who jumped on board were interested mainly because of our frustration with currently available mass-market Gemini patches, which (with a couple of exceptions) do not accurately reflect the original designs...For example, patches with crew names when the originals had none, etc.

My own view is that "our" Gemini repros should reflect the original designs as accurately as possible...WITHIN REASON. My concern from some of the most recent developments is that when we're talking about mimicking 1960's production traits, flaws, etc. that the set will wind up being prohibitively expensive for some of us, or it may not see production at all.

I sincerely appreciate the efforts and interest of everyone here trying to make this happen, but we should keep in mind that at least some small compromises between production accuracy and feasability might have to be made. Just my 2c...

lucspace
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From: Hilversum, The Netherlands
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-15-2007 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lucspace   Click Here to Email lucspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kevin, I totally agree that compromises in the eventual products are inevitable. However, bear with me a little longer. I am in contact with the North Carolina branch of AB, as Bill suggested; they do have Schiffli machines still in operation.

As they are mainly in use for one particular US client, AB is currently looking into the possibilities of our little project. Should this fail to produce any favourable results, I will certainly propose to go for modern-looking versions of the Gemini patches, but matching the astronaut-worn designs.

From the ouset I stated that I was aiming for millimeter-precise, stitch-by-stitch reproductions. I would like to research the possibilities until choices are exhausted, then move on to my trusted manufacturer to produce 'acceptable' reproductions. That is, if most here agree with me.

Hang in there guys, I'll have more news soon enough.

Kevmac
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Posts: 186
From: College Station, TX
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 10-15-2007 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevmac   Click Here to Email Kevmac     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought I had replied earlier but apparently not. If anyone is really keeping a "list", sign me up for a set also. I imagine the word will get out when/if this becomes available and we'll all come sprinting to order.

Many thanks for everyone's efforts.

Peter Kemp
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Posts: 89
From: Chelmsford, Essex, United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 10-17-2007 03:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peter Kemp   Click Here to Email Peter Kemp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought I had added my name to the list of potential purchasers some time ago but now no so sure as I can't see any previous posts from me on the four pages covering this project. Just another example of a "senior moment" so please put me down on "the list" for at least one set as well.

lucspace
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Posts: 257
From: Hilversum, The Netherlands
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 12-04-2007 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lucspace   Click Here to Email lucspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just last week, AB Emblem in North Caroline informed me there is no yarn available for their Schiffli machine and it won't work using other thread... a shame.

Robert is trying to find out whether AB in Weaverville will be able to make reproductions to the quality of the recent STS-120, which I thought had some of the 'old' look to it, especially compared with some recent Shuttle patches.

So, as I envisage it, we would have Gemini 5, 6, 7, 8 and 11 produced with my regular producer; the 100% embroidered Gemini 9, 10 and 12 by AB.

Promise to keep you posted... spring '08 should see us with the reproductions added to our collections.

Thanks for your continued support.

Kevmac
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Posts: 186
From: College Station, TX
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 12-05-2007 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevmac   Click Here to Email Kevmac     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry, I must be missing something. It's been a long time since I read through all the posts and I'm too lazy to do it tonight.

Question: Why can't all the mission reproductions be done by the same manufacturer?

My apologies if the answer is obvious. Thank you.

KSCartist
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Posts: 2488
From: Titusville, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 12-06-2007 07:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As you'll re-discover when your up to reading four pages of posts, the short answer is to recreate as accurately as possible the patches worn by the crews.

It's understandable that Luc would use his regular embroidery company if they have assured him that the patches with the twill backgrounds can be recreated to the specs he provides. Obviously, with the few that require 100% embroidery he believes that AB will do a better job.

Having met him, I can assure you that Luc is dedicated to bringing us a quality product.

I guess not so short an answer. Hope this helps.

Kevmac
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From: College Station, TX
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 12-06-2007 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevmac   Click Here to Email Kevmac     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, that's a great answer. Thank you for taking the time to respond. I'm looking forward to the final products.

Monksanders
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posted 12-12-2007 03:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Monksanders   Click Here to Email Monksanders     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have only joined this conversation recently. I think producing accurate Gemini mission patches is a great idea. Count me in for a set possibly two.

Has anyone seen the US Astronaut Hall of Fame Gemini 4 mission patch? The HOF is just outside of KSC. I was there last August and saw a presentation for Ed White that had a GT 4 patch. It reminds me greatly of the one listed from McDivitt at the Michigan Museum. The HOF patch is has a red background. Anyone know the history in this one? I have a picture if anyone needs it.

I am also interested in any of the Gemini reproductions made in the last few years. If anyone has a source let me know.

lucspace
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Posts: 257
From: Hilversum, The Netherlands
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 12-18-2007 09:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lucspace   Click Here to Email lucspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The red-background Gemini 4 was produced a number of years ago by Randy Hunt. See SpacePatches.info for more details.

JGJ
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posted 01-20-2008 03:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JGJ   Click Here to Email JGJ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any updates?

astroborg
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From: Woodbridge, VA, USA
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posted 01-25-2008 09:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for astroborg   Click Here to Email astroborg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With the help of Bill Hunt, John Berry has been working with AB to make a repro of Gus' Molly Brown patch he had made after the mission - make sure you don't miss this patch, on this thread.

ddrwilli
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From: Pataskala, Ohio
Registered: Nov 2005

posted 01-26-2008 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ddrwilli   Click Here to Email ddrwilli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Count me in for a set, too! I've long wanted a set of authentic, or faithful to the original design, Gemini patches. Luc, Robert, et al, thanks for taking this on...

JohnBerry
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From: Helotes, TX
Registered: Jul 2007

posted 01-30-2008 08:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JohnBerry   Click Here to Email JohnBerry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Howdy! Luc and I have been talking... the GT-3 Molly Brown patch I have available is going to be it the GT-3 portion of this project.

I was able to see the original at the Astronaut Hall of Fame this weekend and I'm satisfied I got as close as I could given the constraints of the project -- thanks to Bill Hunt and his great photo!

So, if you want a Molly Brown patch for your set, check out the FS: Molly Brown Commemorative Patch thread and order up! I have 26 of the greeting cards left. After that, simpler packaging.

As for the other patches, I'm tied up at work until after July :-(. After that, I'm considering working of the GT-4 patch (flight medallion version). Luc and I have been chatting re: the rest of the set... We'll keep you posted.

JoKepler
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From: Houston, Texas
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posted 02-05-2008 02:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JoKepler   Click Here to Email JoKepler     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please add me to the list to obtain a set.

GoesTo11
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From: Denver, CO USA
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posted 02-05-2008 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's good to hear, John. I'm looking forward to receiving my "Molly Brown" patches. Since we first started kicking this project around, I've felt strongly that GT-3 and GT-4 should be represented in the set, esp. since a member of each crew lost his life helping us win the race to the Moon.

Just one question: What is the GT-4 "flight medallion" you refer to?

mjanovec
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posted 02-05-2008 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It should be noted that McDivitt insists that the only "patch" for GT-IV was the American flag. As such, I think the ideal patch would be a flag of the same dimensions and style as the one on the GT-IV flight. Any other patch design would not be a "crew-approved" design.

JohnBerry
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From: Helotes, TX
Registered: Jul 2007

posted 02-05-2008 07:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JohnBerry   Click Here to Email JohnBerry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As for the GT-4 patch I'm thinking of... it's the one w/ the eagle grasping the spacecraft, dark blue on top, lighter blue on bottom w/ stars. Names around the outside... As for the "flag only" option -- we'll have to look into that idea -- my thought was that McDivitt had some of these patches I'm thinking of made up after the flight...?

Robert Pearlman
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From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 02-05-2008 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a picture of the GT-IV Fliteline medal-based patch on page two of this very thread. It was photographed among items belonging to Jim McDivitt, however it's noted that it was given to him (rather than requested).

mjanovec
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From: Midwest, USA
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posted 02-06-2008 12:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When McDivitt signed for Novaspace in May 2006, the signing report said: "He (McDivitt) was very adamant about his mission patch for Gemini, which was a simple American flag."

Bill Hunt
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From: Irvine, CA
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posted 02-06-2008 03:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bill Hunt   Click Here to Email Bill Hunt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
There is a picture of the GT-IV Fliteline medal-based patch on page two of this very thread. It was photographed among items belonging to Jim McDivitt, however it's noted that it was given to him (rather than requested).
I'd love to know where it came from, who made it and who gave it to him. I love the look of the patch. My preference would be for a replica of this embroidered patch. Those who want a "flag" patch can simply obtain a Beta cloth flag, yes?

mjanovec
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Posts: 3593
From: Midwest, USA
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posted 02-06-2008 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Hunt:
Those who want a "flag" patch can simply obtain a Beta cloth flag, yes?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Beta cloth never flew on Gemini. So it would hardly be a suitable substitution.

Robert Pearlman
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Posts: 27327
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 02-06-2008 12:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
Beta cloth never flew on Gemini.
Correct: Beta cloth came into use as a direct result of the Apollo 1 fire.

quote:
So it would hardly be a suitable substitution.
A Beta cloth flag would not, but a nylon flag, like the type typically seen on flown flag presentations, would. The GT-IV crew did not wear embroidered U.S. flags.


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