Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

Websites
related space history websites

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Space Places
  Cape Canaveral launch complexes and facilities (Page 7)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search


This topic is 8 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Cape Canaveral launch complexes and facilities
Ken Havekotte
Member

Posts: 1984
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 04-28-2013 08:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WAIT! Hold the presses, as there is a news media article by Mary Bubb (see my prior post here) reporting on the Apollo 1 funeral procession while covering it from the CKAFS.

Bubb writes, "The Cape Road was lined with solemn groups of people..."

This would seem (perhaps...) to indicate that the procession convoy may have traveled east-south on Industrial Road. From there, going right on Cape Road for most of the trip, until hitting a left on Skid Strip Road to the runway facility.

Any thoughts?

LM-12
Member

Posts: 1107
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 04-28-2013 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a tour route sign in the photo. Didn't the tour route go down Hangar Road and past Hangar S? I don't know if Cape Road was also on the tour route.

Ken Havekotte
Member

Posts: 1984
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 04-28-2013 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LM-12: I'll recheck all of this next week, however, I am thinking the earliest public bus tour route did include both Hangar and Cape Roads of the Industrial Area.

To get near the Range Control Center, or drive by it, would require using Cape Road (now Phillips Pkwy) that all the Cape-side public bus tours did from the very start of NASA's TWA/Spaceport USA tour program.

Go4Launch
Member

Posts: 419
From: Bethesda, MD
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 04-28-2013 10:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Go4Launch   Click Here to Email Go4Launch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Burns and Roe architectural drawings in the KSC Engineering Documentation Center refer to the building as the Operations and Checkout Building as late as July 1964. The building was first occupied on August 28.

According to "MSC-Florida Operations First" in the Oct. 14, 1964 Space News Roundup, "The majority of MSC-Florida Operations personnel are located in the Manned Spacecraft Operations building, formerly known as the Operations and Checkout Building."

LM-12
Member

Posts: 1107
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 04-28-2013 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good find. The article continues a few pages later and the complete heading is MSC-Florida Operations First To Move Into New Merritt Island Facilities.

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 04-28-2013 11:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
Any thoughts?
There are no other butler type warehouses in the industrial area. Looking south on Cape road, the fire department or most certainly the security/police building would be in view.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 1107
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 04-29-2013 01:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I did find one more photo of the procession and that is S67-21615. My best guess at the location is on Skid Strip Road at the south end of the industrial area.

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 04-29-2013 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
My best guess at the location is on Skid Strip Road at the south end of the industrial area.
That would be the curve in front of the new fire station.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 1107
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 05-10-2013 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Florida Today has an update on the fate of Hangar S. The article also mentions that there is now an historic marker where the Mercury Mission Control Center once stood.
Despite a history dating from the space program's origins through the shuttle era, Hangar S has not yet made the cut as one of the nearly 100 local properties NASA recognizes as historically significant.

Now an Indiana man's objection to that perceived slight has forced Kennedy Space Center to take another look at its facilities and at least delay the hangar's date with a wrecking ball.

"I just can't see how one can escape the conclusion that Hangar S is, in fact, historic," said Steven Kovachevich, a 55-year-old lawyer and real estate broker from Gary, Ind.

...After reading in FLORIDA TODAY last year about NASA's plan to demolish the hangar, Kovachevich started a "Save Hangar S" Web site and nominated the facility for listing on the historic register managed by the National Park Service.

Just in time: The state Division of Historic Preservation, which by law must approve NASA plans for major modifications to potentially historic structures, was reviewing KSC's request to demolish Hangar S.

The state recommended further study.

NASA officials don't dispute that Hangar S supported historic events.

But they say the structure has been modified so much over time that its historic elements and character are long gone, and what's left is simply a shell.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 1107
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 05-12-2013 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is a photo of the Mercury Mission Control Center marker.

Built on this site in 1957, the Mercury Control Center, later renamed Mission Control, was the United States' first mission control for unmanned and manned space programs under the leadership of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. The center housed critical launch equipment for the Mercury and Gemini programs. These programs made crucial advancements in the development of spaceflight, including placing astronauts in suborbital and orbital space within and outside a spacecraft, and safely returning them to Earth. The Gemini program was the first American attempt in orbital rendezvous and docking, a critical maneuver used in future manned lunar landings. The control room was dominated by a world map with a miniature spacecraft that tracked the capsule's planned flight path. Teams at the center controlled all flights launched aboard Redstone, Atlas, and the first three Titan II vehicles. After mission control functions were transferred to Houston, Texas, the center provided backup for the initial launch and trajectory. Before the facility's demolition in 2010, its essential historic components were removed for preservation and are displayed at the Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex.

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 05-12-2013 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here are some photos of the NRO's Eastern Processing Facility located at Phillips Parkway and Lighthouse Road.

Great aerial view of SLC-37B with a Delta IV on the pad. Here is a aerial of SLC-41.

An aerial of SLC-40. This can be compared to SLC-41.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 1107
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 05-13-2013 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does a new NRO Processing Facility mean that some the older hangar facilites in the CCAFS Industrial Area will be used less often?

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 05-13-2013 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, because the work in the EPF was not done in the CCAFS Industrial Area. It was done at the SPIF in the SMAB in the Titan ITL area. Unless the USAF steps in, it looks like the SMAB will go the way of the VIB. The USAF uses the DPF in the SPA to process 4m spacecraft and Astrotech in Titusville for 5m spacecraft. GPS and SBIRS are 4m and WGS, AEHF and MUOS are 5m.

After Atlas moved out of Hangars J&K in the 2000's, the NRO took over them and are using them for their storing heavy equipment fleet (trucks, trailers, forklifts, cranes, transport containers, etc). They recently did some refurbishment on the hangar doors.

From my vantage point (as a commuter from passing through the industrial area daily and some limit knowledge of contractor, USAF and NASA plans) here are the buildings that may be underutilized.

AF, S, N, M. Don't know the plans for AM and heard that the Falcon 9 V1.1 is too long for AO.

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 05-24-2013 06:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a huge thread here.

It is more oriented to the heydays of the Cape (the 1950's - early 60's, before KSC existed).

LM-12
Member

Posts: 1107
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 05-24-2013 03:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Jim for posting that link regarding Art LeBrun. He certainly was generous in sharing both his knowledge and his impressive photo collection of the early Cape years with many other space enthusiasts. Sorry to hear that he has passed away.

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 06-10-2013 08:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To continue the discussion with regards to building reassignments (in no particular order).
  • The RCC is now the USAF Spacecraft Support Center.
  • Building AO went from a NASA PPF to Delta II and III DMCO to SpaceX "Hangar X" for processing Falcon 9s.
  • The MIS in the ITL area is now the ASOC.
  • The Titan IV CPF is the Delta IV DOC.
  • The Minuteman assembly area became the spacecraft processing area hosting the NPF and DPF.
  • Real old school change, TEL-III became the MCC.
  • The Bell guidance lab became the CPOCC (which was never used in that role for a launch) and then became the Titan IV LOCC.
  • The east and west segment processing bays of the SMAB became the IUS processing bay and the SPIF respectively.
  • The TGSF became the TSF.
  • The E&L building was once the LOC hq building and in the late 80s, it was home to the 6555th ASTG commander (who was previously in the MRL). And now the 45th SW Operations Group resides in it.
  • The E&O building housed the MSC AMR Operations Group until the move to KSC. ULO took over the building and it transitioned to LSP in the late 90s. LSP moved to the O&C in the early 2000's and NASA turned the building over to the USAF.
  • Hangar R went from ABMA/LOC to the base contractor.

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 06-15-2013 08:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The USAF is looking at combining the institutional support/infrastructure maintenance contract with the launch operations support contract. Cape Launch Operations and Infrastructure Support (CLOIS)

In the announcement, there is a link for a listing of all the facilities on the Cape, KSC, Antigua and Ascension that the new contractor will be responsible for.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 1107
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 06-19-2013 10:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The USAF Thunderbirds over Missile Row. They ended their shortened 2013 season at an air show in Titusville back in late March. The photo may have been taken at that time.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29619
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 06-19-2013 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
The photo may have been taken at that time.
The photo is from at least 2010 (as documented by the San Diego Air and Space Museum's archives).

stargazerken73
New Member

Posts: 5
From: Fort Meade, Fl, USA
Registered: Aug 2012

posted 07-20-2013 10:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stargazerken73   Click Here to Email stargazerken73     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I keep hearing when on tours led by the CCAFS docents that Complex 17 is scheduled to be demolished in the near future. Is this correct and when is the demolition suppose to happen?

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 07-21-2013 10:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes and it is currently happening.

stargazerken73
New Member

Posts: 5
From: Fort Meade, Fl, USA
Registered: Aug 2012

posted 07-22-2013 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stargazerken73   Click Here to Email stargazerken73     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Jim! With no program to go with it, this is better than letting it rot away in the salt air.

Bram
Member

Posts: 28
From: Tremelo, Belgium
Registered: Nov 2005

posted 07-26-2013 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bram   Click Here to Email Bram     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
Here is a photo of the Mercury Mission Control Center marker.
I have found some great pics of the abandoned Mercury Control Center before its demolition.

PeterO
Member

Posts: 238
From: Rochester, NH
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 07-26-2013 06:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeterO   Click Here to Email PeterO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The interior photos in the three bottom rows show the Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex exhibit, not the real control center. The actual control center room is shown in the second row, second and third photos from the right.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 1107
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 07-28-2013 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They removed the NASA meatballs before demolition. Maybe they were spared.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 1107
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 08-04-2013 09:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hangar AF at Cape Canaveral may be used to process booster components for the Space Launch System.

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 08-04-2013 10:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, it isn't, since the boosters aren't going to be recovered. NASA has already got rid of the booster retrieval ships. Booster component assembly is done in the Booster Assembly and Refurb Facility on Contractor Road, south of the VAB.

Hangar AF will likely be turned back over to the USAF (if they want it) and if they don't, it will be demo'ed.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29619
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-04-2013 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Per the caption to the linked photo:
The facility may be used by the Ground Systems Development and Operations Program at Kennedy Space Center for production activities for NASA’s Space Launch System, or SLS. The booster aft and forward skirts and case stiffener attach ring may be processed in the hangar, as well as refurbishment of the frustrum, before they are transferred to the Booster Fabrication Facility for buildup.

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 08-15-2013 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
RFP for Hangar S and AF demolition.

Cozmosis22
Member

Posts: 360
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 08-19-2013 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cozmosis22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good to see them at The Cape busy doing something. Guess that spending $5 million here, $10 million there destroying some important old buildings is their idea of moving "forward"? It appears as though there is a race to erase as much history as possible as fast as possible. What's the hurry?

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29619
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-19-2013 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cozmosis22:
What's the hurry?
I think you meant, "What hurry?" because no one has been hurrying the destruction of any buildings. These structures marked for demolition have either gone unused or used out of convenience for decades. The last time they were "important" to the program was half a century ago.

And this is exactly the right time to be taking stock of what's no longer needed and disposing of it properly, in between programs, rather than trying to balance the old and new when the latter is up and running.

Cozmosis22
Member

Posts: 360
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 08-19-2013 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cozmosis22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From the National Park Service website:
The National Register of Historic Places is the official list of the Nation's historic places worthy of preservation. Authorized by the National Historic Preservation Act of 1966, the National Park Service's National Register of Historic Places is part of a national program to coordinate and support public and private efforts to identify, evaluate, and protect America's historic and archaeological resources.
To date there are over 88,000 US properties listed there; but apparently places like the old Mercury Mission Control building do not qualify? Guess that's just the way it is... so be it.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29619
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-19-2013 05:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Mercury Mission Control was listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

The register does not exist however, to prohibit the modification, renovation or demolition of the sites it catalogs. The only protection (if you want to call it that) that the register offers to federally-funded registered sites is an additional review by the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation before changes can be made.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 1107
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 08-19-2013 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The KSC Headquarters Building is on the demolition list, but I am not sure if it is one of the 46 facilities included in this latest demolition contract.

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 08-19-2013 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cozmosis22:
...destroying some important old buildings
They are no longer important anymore. Nor do they represent what they use to be.

And what billions?

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 08-19-2013 09:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
The KSC Headquarters Building is on the demolition list, but I am not sure if it is one of the 46 facilities included in this latest demolition contract.

The replacement building has to be approved first.

J.L
Member

Posts: 476
From: Bloomington, Illinois, USA
Registered: May 2005

posted 08-19-2013 10:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for J.L   Click Here to Email J.L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Behling:
They are no longer important anymore. Nor do they represent what they use to be.
I guess I would be more excited about change if there was really something to look forward to. I totally understand that these buildings cannot be saved. Time marches on. But I have seen nothing that says we have better days ahead for our space program.

The buildings that are being demolished represent what we once stood for as a leading spacefaring nation. The buildings may not be important anymore, but they are from an era we are proud of. I continue to study space history because there is not much to look forward to. I wish I felt different.

Cozmosis22
Member

Posts: 360
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 08-20-2013 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cozmosis22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Behling:
And what billions?
Oops, fixed that. Thanks!

Only millions of dollars spent destroying NASA heritage. Next up the HQ Bldg. and the MLP crawlers?

Jim Behling
Member

Posts: 681
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 08-20-2013 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Building don't define heritage.

Anyways, who cares about an HQ building that only housed bureaucrats?

The crawlers are okay. It is the MLPs and there are three of them that aren't being used for anything. What should be done with them? They may be using up space for other systems.

What do you want NASA and the USAF to do? Leave everything in place and pay for maintenance on useless buildings, taking money from other operations and also using up valuable real estate?

There are many items being saved. LC-5/26 blockhouses, LC-5 tower, Hangar C, LC-14 monument, Apollo/Shuttle whiterooms, ET GOX arms, Gemini whiteroom, orbiters, etc.

Pads are too valuable of real estate to be preserved. Also, large structures of metal are too expensive to be maintained in salt air environment just for the sake of history.

Fra Mauro
Member

Posts: 1107
From: Bethpage, N.Y.
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 08-20-2013 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fra Mauro   Click Here to Email Fra Mauro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is a touchy subject. Yes this is the time to get rid of useless stuff, so to speak. On the other hand, as a history teacher, it is important to preserve some of the center's space heritage, so that this generation and future ones, still cherish space exploration.

Don't we try to this with, let's say WWII or Civil War artifacts or battlefields. Two ideas I cannot shake — one, is that the glory days of space travel are over, and one of the effects of demolition is to play into the hands of the opponents of NASA manned spaceflight. If the KSC looks useless, then why keep it?


This topic is 8 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 1999-2014 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement