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  Grumman Lunar Module (LM) insignias (Page 2)

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Author Topic:   Grumman Lunar Module (LM) insignias
ilbasso
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From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 07-07-2009 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I came across this one recently. Any ideas as to its authenticity?

ddrwilli
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From: Pataskala, Ohio
Registered: Nov 2005

posted 07-07-2009 08:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ddrwilli   Click Here to Email ddrwilli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm wondering if the reason that the Gemini patch project never got off the ground is because they tried to do too much all at once.

Perhaps the LM patch project could be done one patch at a time...

In other words, place an initial 50 piece order of one patch, then if the interest is still there, go on and do the next patch, and the next, and etc.

Andrew, I'd be willing to help finance the initial order. Shoot me an email...

Peter Kemp
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Posts: 89
From: Chelmsford, Essex, United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 07-09-2009 07:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peter Kemp   Click Here to Email Peter Kemp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I purchased a few examples of the LM Patches from the late Randy Hunt a few years ago but could never achieve the full set and I recall that Donnis had a very nice LM5 for sale on his original Lunar Legacies site which at the time was beyond my budget.

If you will ship to the UK when they are manufactured then I would most certainly like to join the list for at least one full set.

E2M Lem Man
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From: Los Angeles CA. USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 07-10-2009 07:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for E2M Lem Man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Count me in for at least a set.

As to why I would want them - these are history as the men who built these - designed these and were proud of EACH ONE they built before they received their flight names and mission numbers!

For some reason I would wear LM-3 on my jacket. I am proud of "Spider".

(Go see the pencil tapping engineer in "Tom Hanks' From the Earth to the Moon" and you will know why!)

Tomy1
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From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 07-25-2010 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tomy1   Click Here to Email Tomy1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know if there was a logo just for the Grumman Lunar Module program? I have seen logos for specific LEMs such as LEM 4, LEM 5 etc. If so, can I get an electronic copy anywhere?

Editor's note: Threads merged.

spaced out
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From: Paris, France
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posted 11-21-2010 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to let people know that I'm currently in the process of producing patch versions of the Grumman LM decals.

The idea is to produce patches that are faithful to the original decal artwork as much as possible, including the use of minimal color palettes and outline drawings, rather than updating these with colorful modern graphics.

My intention is to create patches for LMs 4 through 12 but whether I create the full set or not will depend largely on whether I can break-even on the first few patches. If they sink without trace I obviously won't be able to afford to continue to the end.

Anyway, the first patch has already been through the design and pre-production sample stage and should be available around the end of the year or early in the new year.

I'll post more details here nearer the time.

arjuna
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posted 11-21-2010 06:24 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interested to see how the first one turns out...

butch wilks
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From: Lowestoft, Suffolk, UK
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 11-22-2010 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for butch wilks   Click Here to Email butch wilks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Put me down for a set now Chris, I'd love to have them. I was going to get a set by Randy Hunt but he passed on before I was able to.

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 11-22-2010 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for your support Butch. As I say a set is going to take a little while as I'm going to have to sell quite a significant quantity of the first few patches to be able to afford to start work on the next ones.

It may be that I release them one by one over a period of 9 months, something along those lines.

The price level is going to depend on a few things and may vary from patch to patch (some are fairly large and complex) but will most likely be around $15 a patch. Anything less and I'm going to struggle.

onesmallstep
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From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 11-22-2010 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for onesmallstep   Click Here to Email onesmallstep     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've seen full-color versions of the LM decals on posters with signatures of Grumman workers at the Cradle of Aviation Museum out in Long Island, so I will definately buy one (or the set) if this project comes to pass. Will make a great companion display with an LM model (or models, if someone wants to build all built/flown examples with every detail!)

butch wilks
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Posts: 190
From: Lowestoft, Suffolk, UK
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 11-23-2010 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for butch wilks   Click Here to Email butch wilks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One at a time or as a set, send me a heads up and I'll send a payment off to you. You have my email address from the times I've had patches off of you.

Rick Mulheirn
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From: England
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posted 11-23-2010 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd be interested in buying the Grumman LM patches too...

mama04
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Posts: 125
From: Haarlem, N-H, Netherlands
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 11-24-2010 02:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mama04   Click Here to Email mama04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Count me in as well! I would be very interested in a set.

Harald Kraenzel
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Posts: 283
From: Dinslaken,Germany
Registered: Nov 2005

posted 11-24-2010 02:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harald Kraenzel   Click Here to Email Harald Kraenzel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am interested in buying such a set, too.

lm5eagle
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posted 11-24-2010 03:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lm5eagle   Click Here to Email lm5eagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would guarantee purchase of a set. There would be no difficulty about an upfront payment, even while still at the planning stage.

I applaud your efforts, Chris, in taking this aboard. Thank you.

Peter Kemp
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Posts: 89
From: Chelmsford, Essex, United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 11-24-2010 04:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peter Kemp   Click Here to Email Peter Kemp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would definitely take a set as well Chris and am more than happy to pay the projected cost up front for them if this would help in funding the project.

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 11-24-2010 06:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks guys. There's no need for any pledges of support at this stage because I'm already committed to producing the first 4 patches in any case.

I'm pretty optimistic that these will sell well in any case as I've reached the pre-production sample stage with some of these now and they're looking very nice indeed.

I'm still tweaking some details but the first patch will probably be available early next year.

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
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posted 12-29-2010 04:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The first of my Grumman LM replica patches is now ready, LM-8:

Please see this thread on the Buy/Sell Forum for the full announcement.

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 12-29-2010 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Someone asked about the schedule for the release of the other patches in the series and was wondering if it was worth waiting to buy a complete set.

At the moment I have a number of patches in various stage of production. I hope to be able to release the patches one by one with maybe a two week to one month gap between each.

It's important to note that if the initial patches don't sell well enough to give me some hope of breaking even in the long run then I will have to abandon the project as I simply won't be able to afford it. This means that if too many potential buyers hold back waiting for a full set then things may founder for no good reason.

This is all uncharted territory for me at the moment, but if all goes well I hope to be able to provide a full set of patches over the next months that are all of exceptional quality, and which people will be proud to have in their collections.

GoesTo11
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From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 12-29-2010 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks terrific, Chris! I'm definitely "in."

Just curious...Why did you decide to start the set with LM-8?

astroborg
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From: Woodbridge, VA, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-29-2010 08:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for astroborg   Click Here to Email astroborg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My "intelligent" guess is that LM8 was chosen first due to the upcoming 40th anniversary of the flight of Apollo 14. I think Chris stated as such on the Buy/Sell thread.

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
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posted 12-30-2010 03:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Although I'd like to claim some intelligent pattern behind it, the order is actually going to be fairly random.

I started working first on some of the designs I personally like the most but the design and pre-production process runs at different speeds for different patches as some need design changes after a pre-production sample, others need color changes, some need a second sample to be produced etc.

Then there's the time needed for final production and delivery, with packages maybe getting tied up in customs for a week or two.

The end result is that the LM-8 patch is the first available.

The next will likely be LM-12, with LM-6 and LM-10 not far behind. These will all be produced no matter how the first sales go as they're too far advanced to stop now. Others are in the early stages and will go into production if things go well.

mama04
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Posts: 125
From: Haarlem, N-H, Netherlands
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 01-03-2011 01:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mama04   Click Here to Email mama04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris, I received the LM-8 patch today and it is absolutely fantastic. For those of you who are still doubting if they should buy one, I can only say that you will not be disappointed! Highly recommended. Thank you Chris, and I'm looking forward to the next one!

STS9Columbia
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posted 01-04-2011 08:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for STS9Columbia   Click Here to Email STS9Columbia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris, received my LM8 patch now, thank you for this excellent patch! Looking forward to the next LM patches from you.

Kevin T. Randall
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Posts: 458
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 01-05-2011 05:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris, my LM-8's arrived safely in the post this morning. Super patch! Five Stars! Looking forward to completing this long overdue set of Grumman LM patches.

lm5eagle
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From:
Registered: Jul 2007

posted 01-05-2011 10:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lm5eagle   Click Here to Email lm5eagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LM8 Patches arrived today. Absolutely superb, Chris. I ordered two as I wanted one for the album and the second one is destined to be part of a framed display (when all the set arrives). If anyone is still sitting on the fence about purchasing these, don't hesitate further. You will not be disappointed and Chris's introductory offer on this one is excellent value.

butch wilks
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Posts: 190
From: Lowestoft, Suffolk, UK
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 01-05-2011 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for butch wilks   Click Here to Email butch wilks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Got my patch today and I look forward to the rest of the set, as Chris has done one hell of a job on this one. Well done Chris.

Harald Kraenzel
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Posts: 283
From: Dinslaken,Germany
Registered: Nov 2005

posted 01-05-2011 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harald Kraenzel   Click Here to Email Harald Kraenzel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris, my LM-8 patches arrived today. Congratulations on remaking a great patch. Anxious to see the others of this series.

Thanks a lot.

Rick Mulheirn
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From: England
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 01-06-2011 02:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
May I echo everybody else's sentiment about the replica LM patch from Chris Spain. Outstanding job Chris! Well done and count me in for the rest of the series.

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
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posted 01-07-2011 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The second patch in my series of Grumman LM replica patches is now ready, LM-12:

Please see this thread on the Buy/Sell Forum for the full announcement.

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 01-11-2011 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Although my overall aim with this project is to make the embroidered patches as close as possible to the original Grumman decal artwork this is not always possible or desirable.

Sometimes certain details are just so small that they either need to be enlarged slightly or left out altogether. In many cases the original designs exist in more than one form, with the decal and printed versions of the artwork sometimes having different border colors (usually white in one case and yellow in another). In these cases I have to choose which approach to use in my patches.

Normally I'm happy to make my choices and hope that people will be okay with the result but for LM-4 I'm not so sure.

The decal version of this insignia is shown below:

Now obviously today we can produce embroidered patches cut by machine into any shape imaginable, so it's perfectly possible with modern machinery to have a patch shaped exactly like the decal. When Randy Hunt tackled this design about 15 years ago he had it produced as a cut design:

The problem is that my idea is to try to create a patch as it might have looked if it had been produced by someone at Grumman back in 1969, and I just don't think it would have been produced as a cut design at that time. That's why I lean towards enclosing the design in a regular round patch, which might look something like this:

I'd be interested to know what people prefer, although obviously whichever approach I take I'm not going to be able to please everyone.

randyc
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Posts: 599
From: Highlands Ranch, CO USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 01-11-2011 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for randyc   Click Here to Email randyc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would prefer that all of the patches be 'faithful' to the original design in shape and color, such as the 'Figure 8' LM-8 patch. I believe that if this patch was made in the 1960/1970s it would have used the 'cut design' format and not modified to make it round.

I also think it looks better and more interesting using the original design than it would as a round patch.

Therefore I strongly recommend that you use the 'cut design' configuration as well as using colors that closely match the original decal.

Harald Kraenzel
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Posts: 283
From: Dinslaken,Germany
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posted 01-11-2011 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harald Kraenzel   Click Here to Email Harald Kraenzel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would propose to choose a rectangle or square as the surrounding area "carrier patch".

This would lead to more space that can be used for the original decal which makes it a little bit larger compared to the round surrounding "carrier patch".

GoesTo11
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From: Denver, CO USA
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posted 01-11-2011 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll second randyc's thoughts. Assuming it isn't process- or cost-prohibitive, I'd prefer a "cut" patch. LM-4 is the only complex shape among the LM logos, and I'd like to preserve that uniqueness.

ON EDIT: Just to be clear, I do like the round design with the Grumman blue and gold enclosure, and I'd definitely buy it. Just stating my preference.

backof
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From: Pound Ridge, NY USA
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posted 01-11-2011 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for backof   Click Here to Email backof     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I agree with randyc. The cut design looks more interesting.

JFS61
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From: Bryan, Texas USA
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posted 01-11-2011 07:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JFS61     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll be the lone voice of dissent here, as I much prefer the enclosed version myself.

lm5eagle
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posted 01-11-2011 09:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lm5eagle   Click Here to Email lm5eagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not a lone voice as I support the enclosed version also. I speculate here, that if the design had been produced at the time, it would have been much more wearable and sewable in the enclosed format (be it round or square).

GoesTo11
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From: Denver, CO USA
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posted 01-11-2011 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lm5eagle:
I speculate here, that if the design had been produced at the time, it would have been much more wearable and sewable in the enclosed format (be it round or square).

You're probably correct, and that's why after some consideration I've changed my mind on this.

In my previous post, I indicated my preference for a cut patch true to the original design. But I'm buying these patches with a view toward putting them together in a framed display, and that's made me more considerate of how they would look more attractive with a common aesthetic, since most of the LM logos shared variations of Grumman's blue & gold theme.

I realize this flip-flop on my part doesn't help Chris with his decision process, but as I've already said I'll buy, whatever decision he comes to.

randyc
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From: Highlands Ranch, CO USA
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posted 01-11-2011 11:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for randyc   Click Here to Email randyc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not sure why some collectors seem to think it's best that all of the LM patches be either round or square or some other common shape in order to look good or be consistent with other patches in the series. Look at the Apollo 7 patch; although the shape is not as complex as the LM-4 patch it wasn't altered (by adding a round or square backing) to make it easier to sew on a garment. And the Apollo 10 patch is shaped like a shield and isn't round like most of the Apollo mission patches. Because there were different shapes used during the Apollo program a framed patch display, in my opinion, looks more interesting than it would if all of the patches were round.

The point is that patch collectors frame all of the Apollo patches together and aren't concerned whether they all have the same look; they are what they are and they're true to the original design. So that's why I prefer that this patch, and all of the LM patches, look like the original design without speculating whether they would have been altered to make them easier to wear.

Robert Pearlman
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From: Houston, TX
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posted 01-11-2011 11:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by randyc:
Look at the Apollo 7 patch; although the shape is not as complex as the LM-4 patch it wasn't altered (by adding a round or square backing) to make it easier to sew on a garment.
An unfortunate choice of examples. From Chris' excellent Crew Patches website:
The Apollo 7 crew patch ...was actually embroidered as a circular design with a white surround, as worn by the suit techs in S68-48789, and clearly visible on suit tech Clyde Teague in 68-H-936.

For the crew's jump suits the patches were trimmed around the emblem itself to leave the shape shown on the photos of the crew such as KSC-68PC-211.


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