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  Grumman Lunar Module (LM) insignias (Page 3)

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Author Topic:   Grumman Lunar Module (LM) insignias
mama04
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Posts: 125
From: Haarlem, N-H, Netherlands
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 01-12-2011 02:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mama04   Click Here to Email mama04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I personally like the second design best, and exactly because of the reasons listed in the last post. The Apollo 7 patch was originally a round patch which was cut. As this is a time-period patch I think it is reasonable to assume that this would have been of the same design, in other words a round patch which may or may not have been cut to shape.

Either way, this is just my personal preference Chris. I like the first design also and I'll buy it regardless of the decision made.

randyc
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From: Highlands Ranch, CO USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 01-12-2011 09:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for randyc   Click Here to Email randyc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
An unfortunate choice of examples.
There's nothing 'unfortunate' about selecting the Apollo 7 patch as an example. Even Walter Cunningham's remake doesn't have the round, white backing.

That being said, look at the Gemini X patch; it has parts of the stylized X sticking out from the round area. There's no 'rule' that says the patch HAS to be round.

Here's the bottom line - by creating a LM-4 patch with either a round or a square backing we are SPECULATING as to what it MAY have looked like (almost like speculating what an unflown Apollo mission patch may look like). We KNOW what the original shape looks like; any changes to that is PURE SPECULATION.

Why change the facts merely to suit what may or may not look better to some collectors?

edorr
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From: Chelmsford, MA
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-12-2011 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for edorr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, since the Apollo 7 patch was brought up, how about this: do the LM-4 patch on a circular base, and those who believe it should be cut to shape can cut it themselves -- just as was done with the Apollo 7 patch.

spaced out
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From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 01-12-2011 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Gemini 10 patch is actualy a very similar case to Apollo 7. It was almost certainly a 4" round patch on blue twill that was then hand trimmed like the Apollo 7 patch, probably looking something like this in uncut form:

The NASA logo patches are similar again - partially embroidered onto 4" round twill then trimmed down.

All three patch designs have a main body with small sections sticking out.

The only really odd shaped vintage patch I can think of is the Snoopy patches. In this case the design was partially embroidered onto a 4" high oval of twill then in some cases trimmed by hand around the outline of Snoopy.

From these four examples I can't help but think that the LM-4 design would have been partially embroidered onto a 4" circular twill body.

FullThrottle
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From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 01-12-2011 01:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FullThrottle   Click Here to Email FullThrottle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've been watching the Grumman patch thread for a while... I really love the fact that you're putting the effort, time and money forward to see this project through!

I'm not a patch collector, or at least I wasn't, until I was at the Astronaut Scholarship Foundation's show and saw Tim Gagnon's patches... WOW! Bought a few from him including the alternate Apollo designs, I got an Apollo set at KSC and a Mercury set for X-mas...

I want to buy one of each of the Grumman set patches. I am waiting for a few more to come out and get them in one or two swoops instead of ordering one at a time. I have a pretty cool picture of the LM I'd like to frame the patches around.

I personally like the cut version of the shamrock patch better.

Either way, I'm going to be buying a set, plus at least one Gemini 7 patch, I'm just waiting for a few more to go through the door before pulling the trigger.

By the way, keep up the excellent work on these patches, you're bound to make a lot of collectors happy, and interest non-collectors like me to jump into the game!

GoesTo11
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From: Denver, CO USA
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posted 01-13-2011 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another satisfied customer. Just received my LM-8 patches and can't recommend them highly enough. Thanks and great job, Chris!

Gilbert
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From: Carrollton, GA USA
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 01-14-2011 08:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gilbert   Click Here to Email Gilbert     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Received the Gemini 7 crew patch yesterday. I really like it a lot.

Harald Kraenzel
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Posts: 283
From: Dinslaken,Germany
Registered: Nov 2005

posted 01-14-2011 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harald Kraenzel   Click Here to Email Harald Kraenzel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Today I received my Gemini 7 and LM 12 patches. Again some beautiful patches to add to my collection. Again thanks to Chris.

Rick Mulheirn
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From: England
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posted 01-14-2011 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd prefer the LM4 cut patch too rather than an enclosd version; stick to the original design wherever possible. I think the variety of shapes and designs will look great when mounted up together.

spaced out
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From: Paris, France
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posted 01-22-2011 03:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The third patch in my series of Grumman LM replica patches is now ready, LM-10:

Please see this thread on the Buy/Sell Forum for the full announcement.

GoesTo11
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Posts: 1025
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 01-22-2011 01:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I received the LM-12 patches (as well as the Gemini 7 commemorative) a few days ago, and they're as beautiful as I've come to expect.

Just curious, Chris... Are you close(er) to deciding on a format for the LM-4 patch?

ON EDIT: I've had an email exchange with Chris in which he mentioned that some collectors have asked to wait until the set of LM patches is complete before committing to buy them.

I'd like to emphasize that Chris is undertaking this project at his own expense and with no guaranteed profit. Whether or not this set of patches is "complete" may well depend on how many orders he gets for each patch as released.

Don't wait. If you want them, buy them as they become available.

lm5eagle
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posted 01-23-2011 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lm5eagle   Click Here to Email lm5eagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Absolutely in agreement with GoesTo11.

Chris is providing a wonderful service for patch collectors. He must be having to fork out quite a bit of his own cash for taking this initiative. Its only fair to help him as much as we can by buying these patches as they become available. Its also an indicator to Chris that we have every faith in him going the whole way with these.

So yes, buy them as they are issued.

spaced out
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From: Paris, France
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posted 01-23-2011 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GoesTo11:
Just curious, Chris... Are you close(er) to deciding on a format for the LM-4 patch?

I'm actually leaning more towards the cut version now. The main reason is have a larger area for the design itself. If it was executed within a round patch it would be very difficult to execute the details.

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
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posted 01-23-2011 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't worry about buying patches as they come out in order to support the project.

Sales of the first patch have gone okay so I'm now committed to producing the full set in any case.

It will still be a couple of months probably before all the patches are available, most likely with a wait of one to three weeks between each release.

Although for some collectors buying the whole set in one go may be easy I reckon spreading the cost of the set over a longer period might be easier for others.

GoesTo11
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From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 01-23-2011 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spaced out:
Don't worry about buying patches as they come out in order to support the project.

Sales of the first patch have gone okay so I'm now committed to producing the full set in any case.


That's great to hear, Chris. I'd still encourage people to buy them as they're released, as I imagine it would make the project's cost to you easier to take.

With respect to the LM-4 patch, I think your instinct is probably correct. As you can see from my previous posts, I've gone back and forth on my preference re: a cut vs. "enclosed" circular design, and I don't strongly favor one over the other. But I understand the detail issue, and Randy made a very good point earlier in this thread: We know that a cut version would be as authentic as possible, while an enclosed design would be somewhat speculative. I trust your judgment, and I'm "in" for either.

Rick Mulheirn
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Posts: 2457
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 01-23-2011 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GoesTo11:
We know that a cut version would be as authentic as possible
In my humble opinion authenticity should be the overridering prerogative.

arjuna
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posted 01-24-2011 04:19 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris, I'll be in for the full set, but am going to wait until some more come out and just order all at once.

The first two (and the Gemini 7) patches arrived last week and look great!

GoesTo11
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From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 02-02-2011 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just received my LM-10s...beautifully done, as usual!

xlsteve
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From: Holbrook MA, USA
Registered: Jul 2008

posted 02-02-2011 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for xlsteve   Click Here to Email xlsteve     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Received mine over the weekend. Looks great!

spaced out
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From: Paris, France
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posted 02-02-2011 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For your info, LM-6 may arrive by this weekend.

After that there's probably going to a month or so before the next is ready, which may be LM-7. LM-5, LM-9 and LM-11 are in various stages of pre-production, and I'll kick-off LM-4, which incidentally I'm now planning to make as a cut patch, sometime soon.

davidcwagner
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Posts: 519
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 02-02-2011 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for davidcwagner   Click Here to Email davidcwagner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Received the Gemini 7, LM-8, LM-10, & LM-12 patches. Great job on all.

Question on LM-7 (Aquarius). I have seen three Grumman stickers for LM-7 each with a slightly different scene. Which version are you using as the template? Post an example please and thank you.

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
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posted 02-04-2011 12:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by davidcwagner:
I have seen three Grumman stickers for LM-7 each with a slightly different scene. Which version are you using as the template?
I had two different versions to work from - a print and a decal:

I decided to go for the image on the right for various reasons, including the fact that the LEM looks a bit closer to the real thing and the Earth is bit easier to convert to embroidery.

This design was always going to be very difficult to execute as a patch because the artwork is painted. Converting this to a design stitched in 8 colors of thread was a real challenge for the artists.

The fact that the artwork is in shades of blue also makes it tricky. There's an obvious temptation to make the sky black, the lunar surface grey etc but with all the patches I've deliberately tried to stick to the original color scheme as much as possible.

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 02-04-2011 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The LM-6 patch is now ready for sale:

The full announcement is here.

GoesTo11
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Posts: 1025
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 02-04-2011 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks great, Chris...put me down for two as usual.

Given the complexity of some of Grumman's original artwork, I was a little concerned about how well it would translate to embroidery, but you and AB have done a wonderful job so far. Thanks again for making this happen!

Rick Mulheirn
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From: England
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02-10-2011 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris Spain's LM insignia patches have influential friends. Great job Chris. Thoroughly deserved.

Sceptic1
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From: United Kingdom
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posted 02-10-2011 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sceptic1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I for one would love to hear the story behind that picture...

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
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posted 02-11-2011 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rick suggested sending one of the patches to Ed Mitchell as he might appreciate it, and Ed kindly sent a picture of him holding his patch.

Rick Mulheirn
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From: England
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posted 02-11-2011 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sceptic1, You probably know already that Edgar Mitchell (and Fred Haise) were Lunar Module specialists. It was they who worked closely with Grumman to bring the spacecraft up to scratch for manned flight.

LM8 evolved into the Apollo 14 Lunar Module "Antares".

I suggested to Chris that he might consider sending Dr Mitchell a complimentary LM8 insignia patch given his particular interest in that vehicle.

Dr Mitchell was so impressed with the finished article he returned the compliment by sending the photo which he asked me to forward on to Chris.

Sceptic1
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From: United Kingdom
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posted 02-11-2011 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sceptic1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for your informative replies gentlemen, and please forgive my curiosity.

I think sending Dr. Mitchell the LM-8 patch was a great idea, and he was clearly delighted with the gift. My compliments to you both.

gbeak
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posted 02-11-2011 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gbeak   Click Here to Email gbeak     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I now have the first four LM patches that Chris has gotten out... they are beautifully done and the set will be a great addition to any collection.

If are waiting to get these don't! International shipping was very fast.

randyc
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Posts: 599
From: Highlands Ranch, CO USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 02-12-2011 06:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for randyc   Click Here to Email randyc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I received the LM-10 patches yesterday and they are outstanding! The attention to detail and the quality are second-to-none. And from the photo of the LM-6 patch above it looks like that one will be outstanding as well.

I'm looking forward to the other patches in this series, especially the 'cut' version of the LM-4 patch and my favorite LM patch, the LM-7.

Thanks Chris!

randyc
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From: Highlands Ranch, CO USA
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posted 02-18-2011 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for randyc   Click Here to Email randyc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I received my LM-6 patches today, and like the LM-10 patches they look great!

I highly recommend that anyone who collects patches or LM-related items purchase these patches.

spaced out
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From: Paris, France
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posted 02-18-2011 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There's going to be a bit of a gap before the next patch is available. LM-7 should be next up but probably won't be ready until late March.

In the meantime I've been talking to the guy who actually came up with the design for the LM-10 decal back in 1969. I'll probably be posting a little article on that on the Crew Patches website in the next day or two.

spaced out
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From: Paris, France
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posted 02-18-2011 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's probably worth mentioning that from the start of this project I've seen amazing variations in the time it's taken for the patches to reach buyers.

At best I've had letters reach a buyer in the States 3 days after posting, and at worst 20 days after, which is amazingly slow.

Everything is posted by priority airmail so I can't explain the delays. Please do be patient if your order doesn't seem to arrive when you'd expect.

GoesTo11
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From: Denver, CO USA
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posted 02-18-2011 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spaced out:
At best I've had letters reach a buyer in the States 3 days after posting, and at worst 20 days after, which is amazingly slow.

Just to use my own example...Chris notifed me on 2/9 that he had mailed my LM-6s the previous day; now, on the evening of the 18th, they have yet to arrive, while my previous patches reached me in just a few days (I'm in Denver). So...patience

Rick Mulheirn
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posted 02-19-2011 03:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For what it's worth, I have sent several packages to the US recently that would normally take 5-7 days to arrive but have been taking 2-3 weeks.

I suspect, severe weather in the midwest may be to blame; I'm guessing Chicago airport is a major postal hub.

We saw similar disruption here in the UK during December's snowfall.

spaced out
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posted 02-19-2011 05:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

This is Ray Eschert, the guy who designed the Grumman LM-10 insignia, holding one of my replica patches alongside one of his original decals.

You can read my article on Ray's time at Grumman, and the background to the creation of the LM-10 insignia, here: The Story Behind the Grumman LM-10 Insignia

GoesTo11
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From: Denver, CO USA
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posted 02-22-2011 08:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Finally received my LM-6s today...so 18 business/mail days in transit. Like Chris, I can't offer any explanation for the delay, although as Rick mentioned it certainly wouldn't surprise me if the weather in the eastern and mid-western US early this month slowed things down.

In any case, LM-6 is another winner.

mooncollector
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posted 02-26-2011 06:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mooncollector   Click Here to Email mooncollector     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello everyone... first post!

I have had an interest in space-related memorabilia including patches for a long time now, and I ran across this site while trying to get info about a patch design I haven't seen before... related to this subject (Grumman insignias).

I followed a link to Wikipedia's Apollo listing recently and found a rundown of all manned and unmanned Apollo missions, with patch designs (emblems) included. There was one there I had never seen before: Apollo 5 (first LM test) had its own patch and it was supposedly designed by Grumman engineers. It shows a LM in orbit (without legs, like the flight configuration for that mission) at the point of staging the descent module. It's a pretty neat design and I am wondering if anyone here was familiar with it, and would it be pertinent to be included in this series as well? I know I would love to find one of those somewhere! I knew about the series that is being discussed here and the site that is referenced (by the way, that site appears to be parked at present although the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal and Apollo Archive both have it on their links pages).

I am getting very interested now in some of the "alternative" designs for patches in NASA (just got a "Beep Beep" Apollo 14 backup crew patch, which I had wanted forever) and I would consider this Grumman series too. Definitely.

Anyone else know about the Apollo 5 patch and if there are any plans for a manufacture of it? Looking forward to posting with all of you here!

spaced out
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From: Paris, France
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posted 02-27-2011 11:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I detail the LM-1 patch on the Contractor Patches page of my Crew Patches website. This includes a list of sales from recent years, with the latest example fetching $345.

Although it's not part of my current project, which is based on the decals that were never produced in patch form, I may consider producing a replica. It won't be easy to do as it's a busy design with pretty odd (to put it mildly) execution.


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