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  Signing history and experience: Bill Anders (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Signing history and experience: Bill Anders
7 Forty7
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posted 05-09-2007 05:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7 Forty7   Click Here to Email 7 Forty7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know if Bill Anders signs anymore? I have read that he no longer does, but has he ever been tempted into signing events?

Rick Mulheirn
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posted 05-09-2007 05:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The closest he ever came to a signing event to my knowledge, was three or four years ago when Novaspace lined up all three Apollo 8 crewmen for a private signing.

Unfortunately, Bill Anders backed out choosing instead to make a donation to charity followed soon after by Frank Borman.

Now that would have been one hell of a line-up...

Both Borman and Lovell have since participated in signings for Novaspace; I wonder if there is any possibility of them persuading Anders to join them? As nice as it sounds I somehow doubt it will ever happen.

7 Forty7
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posted 05-09-2007 05:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7 Forty7   Click Here to Email 7 Forty7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Judging by what I read I had guessed the chance was slim. Oh well, another incomplete crew photo for the wall!

polheiney
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posted 05-17-2007 10:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for polheiney   Click Here to Email polheiney     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, crossing my fingers didn't do a whole lot and there was no Bill Anders signing when he appeared at the National Air and Space Museum last night.

I don't see a lot of Anders signed photos for sale very often. What could I expect to pay for an unpersonalized 8x10 (doesn't need to be a litho)?

Scott
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posted 05-17-2007 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For reference, here are a couple of unpersonalized and authentic 8x10s which have sold fairly recently.

DChudwin
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posted 03-07-2010 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DChudwin   Click Here to Email DChudwin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had the pleasure of meeting Gen. Bill Anders at the Astronaut Scholarship Foundation's Apollo 12 40th Anniversary dinner at the Cape in November.

We had a brief, pleasant chat about his autograph fees for charity -- he has offered signed "Earthrise" items for $2,500 on behalf of his Heritage Flight Museum, ASF, and other organizations. He emphasized that the fees go directly to the charity so the buyer gets the tax deduction.

After the event, I wrote Gen. Anders a letter in which I suggested that he consider lowering his fee to $1,000 or less.

My argument was that he would increase his yield for charity by increased volume since few of us can afford $2,500. I also pointed out that John Young, who flew six times in space and twice to the Moon, charges about $500 and that Anders' fee was five times this amount.

I didn't hear anything back until last week when I received a letter from Gen. Anders:

Thanks for your suggestions on autograph pricing but I'm sticking to my $2,500 since every time I donate a signed "Earthrise" photo to a charity auction it always gets my minimum allowed bid ($2,500) and generally more. Since the bid funds go to charity, not my pocket, there is a 40% "discount."

Indeed, John Young has flown a lot more than I have but he wasn't on the first flight from the Earth, did not take the "Earthrise," his autograph is quite common, and he can't complete an Apollo astronaut autograph collection!

A few comments. First, Gen. Anders has the right to charge whatever he likes. Second, none of this goes to Gen. Anders personally but only to charity (he did quite well financially as a business executive). Third, I still think a lower fee would produce more for charities. It would take Gen. Anders just an afternoon to do a signing for ASF or other group. Finally, I suspect that Gen. Anders takes some sort of pride or satisfaction in limiting his autographs so that his is the rarest of the surviving Apollo astronauts. However, I do appreciate that he took the time to answer my letter and explain his position.

Paul23
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posted 03-07-2010 02:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul23   Click Here to Email Paul23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did he sign the letter?!

DChudwin
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posted 03-07-2010 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DChudwin   Click Here to Email DChudwin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paul23:
Did he sign the letter?!

LOL! Yes, he signed it "Bill" but with one of his atypical signatures-- there was a hook near the top of the downstroke in the letter B.

No, this letter will never go on e-bay or at auction (at least while I am alive!).I will save the letter, however, as part of the personal correspondence I've had with several Apollo and shuttle astronauts through the years (I started collecting space in 1963).

albatron
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posted 03-07-2010 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for albatron   Click Here to Email albatron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I actually had a discussion with him about this years ago, ie YOU set the market value. He was still hot and heavy into air racing when we spoke (and it was at Reno), and I used the example of charging $100 per signature, sign often, put it towards you racing and you don't have to worry about someone reselling it for a fortune.

It's the lack of availability that makes it so expensive, and his peddling of Earthrise is a perfect venue to add Borman and Lovell on to complete a crew signed (significant) piece.

He mulled it over for a few minutes, I got excited thinking I "got through" and then he says "nahhh". LOL

Oh well. Anyway I personally think Apollo 8 pieces are tremendously undervalued and under appreciated. This was truly a fabulous and exciting flight, and every bit as nail biting and significant as Apollo 11 - and first.

dss65
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posted 03-07-2010 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dss65   Click Here to Email dss65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I couldn't agree with you more on every point, Al. But it's also the reason why Anders will almost certainly always be one of the holes in my collection. I've come to pretty much accept that.

Paul23
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posted 03-08-2010 03:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul23   Click Here to Email Paul23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DChudwin:
I will save the letter, however, as part of the personal correspondence I've had with several Apollo and shuttle astronauts through the years (I started collecting space in 1963).

Sounds like you have a unique collection there!

ilbasso
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posted 03-08-2010 07:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does he only sign the Earthrise photo, or would he also sign other items for $2500?

gliderpilotuk
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posted 03-08-2010 10:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At the ASF show he indicated that he'd sign other items for that price.

Spacefest
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posted 03-08-2010 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anders also runs the risk of being forgotten in the annals of history. As one of his crewmates told me, he was just along for the ride, an "LMP with no LM" and only made one flight. Already, many consider Borman and Lovell a complete crew. Only buffs like us even know of him.

albatron
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posted 03-08-2010 03:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for albatron   Click Here to Email albatron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dss65:
I couldn't agree with you more on every point, Al. But it's also the reason why Anders will almost certainly always be one of the holes in my collection. I've come to pretty much accept that.
Cheers mate. And that is sad. I wish he'd be more responsive.

Greggy_D
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posted 03-08-2010 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greggy_D   Click Here to Email Greggy_D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Spacefest:
Anders also runs the risk of being forgotten in the annals of history. As one of his crewmates told me, he was just along for the ride, an "LMP with no LM" and only made one flight. Already, many consider Borman and Lovell a complete crew. Only buffs like us even know of him.
Very telling.

dtemple
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posted 03-08-2010 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dtemple   Click Here to Email dtemple     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Spacefest:
Anders also runs the risk of being forgotten in the annals of history.
My guess is that Anders doesn't worry about being remembered by the general public. He shouldn't waste time on the matter either. Quite frankly, eventually only serious historians will know the names of the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo astronauts or rather the first five groups of NASA astronauts. Armstrong's name is certainly one which will be reasonably well-known centuries from now among the general public. Other than John Glenn (and Jim Lovell thanks to the Apollo 13 movie), how many "space-race" astronauts are currently remembered except to us "space geeks?" Yes, some of the older generation will recognize several more names, but that's about it.

DChudwin
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posted 03-08-2010 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DChudwin   Click Here to Email DChudwin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Spacefest:
Anders also runs the risk of being forgotten in the annals of history.
Although I don't agree with Bill Anders' autograph policies, I do have a lot of admiration for his many accomplishments.

He was a fighter pilot and nuclear engineer who held many positions in government and industry after he left NASA. He is a very bright guy.

Here are a few excerpts of his biography:

He received a Bachelor of Science degree from the United States Naval Academy in 1955 and a Master of Science degree in nuclear engineering from the Air Force Institute of Technology at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, in 1962. Anders completed the Harvard Business School Advanced Management Program in 1979.

After graduating from the Naval Academy, Anders took his commission in the U.S. Air Force and served as a fighter pilot in all-weather interceptor squadrons of the Air Defense Command. He later was responsible for technical management of nuclear power reactor shielding and radiation effects programs while at the Air Force Weapons Laboratory in New Mexico.

From 1969 to 1973, Anders served as executive secretary for the National Aeronautics and Space Council, which was responsible to the president, vice president and Cabinet-level members of the Council for developing policy options concerning research, development, operations and planning of aeronautical and space systems.

On August 6, 1973, Anders was appointed to the five-member Atomic Energy Commission, where he was lead commissioner for nuclear and non-nuclear power R&D. Following the reorganization of national nuclear regulatory and developmental activities on January 19, 1975, Anders was named by President Ford to become the first chairman of the newly established Nuclear Regulatory Commission, which is responsible for nuclear safety and environmental compatibility.

At the completion of his term as NRC Chairman, Anders was appointed ambassador to Norway and held that position until 1977, when he left the federal government after 26 years.

Anders joined General Electric in September 1977. As vice president and general manager of GE's Nuclear Products Division in San Jose, California, he was responsible for the manufacture of nuclear fuel, reactor internal equipment, and control and instrumentation for GE boiling-water reactors at facilities located in San Jose and Wilmington, North Carolina.

In 1980, Anders was appointed general manager of the General Electric Aircraft Equipment Division.

In 1984, he left GE to join Textron as executive vice president for aerospace, and two years later became senior executive vice president for operations.

In 1990, Anders became vice chairman of General Dynamics, and on January 1, 1991, its chairman and CEO. He retired in 1993 but remained chairman until May 1994.

Spacefest
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posted 03-08-2010 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I read the Wikipedia article, too, Dr. Chudwin, but it's interesting that many of his accomplishments were done in boardrooms, and indoors. He doesn't evangelize space like a Gene Cernan, doesn't dance or lead parades like a Buzz Aldrin (!)

He is rarely seen in public unless (at his behest) the Apollo 8 crew gathers for a reunion or a TV opportunity.

It is widely held that he joined GD at just the right time, advancing by luck, not becoming a billionaire through a brilliant business mind, He just was CEO when the company was sold.

Lovell, Borman (and Collins, Cunningham and Roosa) all graduated from Harvard Advanced Business School, too.

I'm not saying Anders will be forgotten because he won't sign autographs, rather his reclusive style will do it.

Who were we talking about?

mjanovec
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posted 03-09-2010 01:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If Anders wants to charge $2500 in order to provide an autograph, that is definitely his choice to do so. But in no way does that price reflect the true market value for his autograph, which generally can be had for $200-$1000 on the secondary market (depending on the quality of the item).

As for Anders' explanation why his own autograph is so valuable, his letter doesn't provide the facts.

  • His signature is not valuable because he flew on Apollo 8...Lovell and Borman share that honor, held more critical mission roles, and still charge less than $200 for their signatures.
  • His signature is not valuable because he took the earthrise photo...he only got the privilege because thousands of men and women across America gave him the opportunity to do so. Lovell or Borman could have just as easily snapped that photo (and would have, if they were holding the camera).
  • His signature is not valuable because it "completes" a collection. Collectors complete collections. And arguably, nice Roosa or Swigert autographs are now more rare (and valuable) these days...and are just as important towards completing your collections as Anders' signature is.

Really, the only reason his signature is relatively "valuable" is because Anders is the least generous signer of the 24 men who went to the moon. Simply put, he dislikes signing autographs for his admirers and has chosen to limit the numbers on the market so he can artificially inflate their value.

If someone wants to donate $2500 to Anders' foundation for the sake of doing so, feel free. But if someone wants an Anders signature, I am going to suggest they turn to a dealer or auction house for the honor. You'll get a 50-75% "discount" over what Anders is asking.

gliderpilotuk
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posted 03-09-2010 04:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good points Mark. However, given the hyped price of Armstrongs over the past few years (a classic case where price is not driven by rarity, but is fed by the "must have one of those at any cost" mentality), in my opinion $2,500 for a personalised 16x20 Earthrise is not wildly beyond the pockets of many collectors.

I found Anders a savvy and witty person, with a strong opinion about other people's, (including other astronauts') motivations. Unlike others, I wouldn't be in a position to judge his business acumen, but there are plenty of other business leaders who could be accused of being in the right place at the right time. Arguably the divestment of aerospace activities under his tenure was a critical "right-time" decision that left GD with a secure legacy.

At the end of the day, though, it's his choice and at least he is consistent about it, rather than bleating on about how despicable autograph collectors are and then conducting paid-for signings.

I guess, though, that after reading the views here he's unlikely to be doing any favours.

mjanovec
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posted 03-09-2010 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
At the end of the day, though, it's his choice and at least he is consistent about it, rather than bleating on about how despicable autograph collectors are and then conducting paid-for signings.

I'm guessing you're referring to Collins here. I suspect most of Collins' bad feeling towards collectors were formed back when he was signing for free. Similarly, that's probably when Anders developed his disdain for autograph collectors too. I think both guys simply don't understand the appeal of autograph collecting...and they both had bad experiences with over-zealous collectors in the past.

Despite their mutual dislike for certain aspects of the autograph hobby, both Collins and Anders are willing to sign for collectors who are willing to pay the right price. The only difference, as far as I can see it, is about $2205.

FFrench
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posted 03-09-2010 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While speculation without information will understandably create numerous theories, a couple of things stated on this thread are a little different to statements I have heard elsewhere or events I have been at personally.

There is no real need to speculate on Anders' reluctance to sign autographs when he states exactly why in his NASA oral history, and has repeated that opinion in public and private since. To paraphrase - hopefully accurately - he signed items for fellow Apollo astronauts, gifted them with flown items, etc. - as they all did for each other at the time. When one astronaut auctioned off one of these gifts, Anders decided to stop signing, feeling what had been a personal thing had become commercial. Frustrating to the autograph collector, I am sure, but very understandable, and not based on a distaste of collectors.

Regarding Anders' place on the Apollo 8 crew, naturally he has a very different recollection of events to some theories stated in this thread. While everyone is entitled to their opinion, and other participants might recall it differently, I thought it might be interesting to quote his first-hand account In the Shadow of the Moon (from an admittedly and intentionally Anders-centric chapter), which discusses how Lovell replaced Collins on the crew very late in the game:

To Anders, Lovell would seem like a last-minute replacement, someone who never really had time to become a full crew member. As a consequence, he would later wryly suggest that they actually operated the mission with a two-and-a-half person crew. Anders and Borman would now take turns monitoring the CSM, with Lovell working almost independently, focusing his attention on the spacecraft's navigation system. 'By that time,' Anders states, 'I was really command module pilot... Frank and I were more of a pair than Borman and Lovell. Frank basically considered me the command module pilot... Frank gave me the responsibilities of making sure the spacecraft worked.'"
Regarding Anders' visibility at public events - he's out there more than most I know. I can think of three events offhand in this two-week period that I know he's at. However, these events are not space-related, which perhaps explains his relative invisibility to this discussion board. He had a full, rewarding career after the space program, and so he supports many different worthy causes, many of them far away from the space world.

In summary, very few people on an autograph collecting thread might agree with his decisions and policies. But, speaking only for myself, I can't see any reason to knock character and career achievements because of it. I can personally vouch that Bill Anders and his family have been some of the most generous people I know, in ways that are much more valuable than a name on a piece of paper.

mjanovec
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posted 03-09-2010 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FFrench:
Anders decided to stop signing, feeling what had been a personal thing had become commercial.

I can respect that stance, as that is the approach that Armstrong has also taken. However, it's puzzling that the anti-commercial stance towards autographs ends at $2500 and above.

I also can't agree that Lovell was anything less than a full crew member on Apollo 8...considering he was the most experienced astronaut of the three and held arguably the most important role (navigator) on man's first voyage away from the Earth. I suspect Borman likely gave Anders more CMP-like roles because there was no LM for the LMP to devote his attention to...not because Lovell wasn't up to the task. It makes sense, from a redundancy standpoint, to have multiple crew members know the systems, especially when one of those crew members would otherwise be under-utilized.

And while I agree that one's accomplishments should not be questioned just because of one's stance towards autographs, it should be remembered that it was Anders himself (in his letter to DChudwin) who first tied his accomplishments to the value of his signature. If one is going to make that comparison (especially against a seasoned astronaut like John Young), then it's probably fair game to compare Anders' accomplishments against those of his peers when weighing an autograph's value.

I don't doubt that Anders is likely a very generous man, but that generosity doesn't extend to autographs to his admirers. There's really nothing wrong with that, as he is free to control his autograph any way he sees fit. It was only pointed out to give a valid reason why his signature is considered valuable.

andrewcli
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posted 03-09-2010 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for andrewcli   Click Here to Email andrewcli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Francis, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I know how close you are to Gen. Anders and his involvement to the SDASM. Again, I respect Gen. Anders and his accomplishments. Although he has the right to charge whatever he wants, it does make my heart sink knowing that I may not be able to to add his autograph to my Earthrise poster.

stsmithva
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posted 03-09-2010 06:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stsmithva   Click Here to Email stsmithva     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Francis, thanks for your informative post.

DChudwin
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posted 03-09-2010 09:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DChudwin   Click Here to Email DChudwin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Former astronauts have several decision points with respect to giving autographs.
  1. Should I give autographs? Some such as Neil Armstrong, who autographed freely for many years until 1994, decided never to give an autograph to anyone for any reason, including charity signings.

  2. Should I charge for autographs? John Glenn has given thousands of autographs through the years, including through the mail, without a charge. Others such as Ken Mattingly will autograph in person only but without a fee. However, most former astronauts do charge for their autographs due to the commercialization of collecting space in the last 20 years.

  3. What should the autograph fee be? In the mid-1980's Jim Irwin was the first to charge for an autograph-- $2 for his signature on a litho showing him on the Moon. Current fees by former astronauts range from $30 to $495 at various signings (ASF, Astronaut Central etc.) or through the mail. Two astronauts in the higher range have been Buzz Aldrin (first landing on the Moon) at $350 and John Young (six flights, two to the Moon) at $495.

  4. What is an autograph worth? Like anything else, the value of a signature is market based. Items signed by Bill Anders fetch a premium price because he has signed few items in recent years. While an active astronaut, he did sometimes respond through the mail (in 1969 I received an Apollo 8 USS Yorktown recovery cover signed by him).

    Covers, photos and some other items signed by him during his time as an astronaut are available at auction in the $500-$1000 range. However, since leaving the astronaut office, he has not participated in any signings like some of his former colleagues. Many collectors are frustrated by his reluctance.

Besides the incident which Francis French describes, I think there are three other factors involved in Anders' current policy of asking $2,500 (to charity, not to his pockets) for his signature.

First, Anders was a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank, and he holds conservative political views. I suggest this extends to the marketplace setting prices. Because the market allows him (his designated charities) to receive $2,500 or more for his new signature, then the market should determine the price. (The counter-argument is that he has artificially elevated the value by restricting the supply.)

Second, our hobby is apparently not important to Anders. By keeping his price high, the time commitment is minimized. He is wealthy due to his business career and can donate directly to worthy causes without having to deal with collectors.
(The counter-argument is that he greatly benefited from his training and career as an astronaut, which opened doors to him in government and industry. Thus taxpayers, and space enthusiasts in particular, paved the way for his success.)

Finally, based on my talk with him at the ASF dinner and conversations with other who have talked with him, I do think that Anders takes some sense of satisfaction that his fee is the highest of the living Apollo astronauts. I do not expect him to change his attitude.

However, while I disagree with Anders' autograph policy, that policy does not reduce my respect for his many accomplishments in the military, at NASA, in government, and in industry.

A.Pelago
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posted 03-10-2010 09:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for A.Pelago     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would imagine that most of us agree that no one is ever obliged to give an autograph to anyone at any time, even though all of us who collect space autographs wish that wasn't the case.

Anders has always been a tough signer. Ask collectors who were active during the Apollo programme and they will tell you that even then his signature was something to be prized.

That said, he has always signed autographs even if only rarely. There are stories on this board of people who have met him at events within the past few years and, approached in the right way and at the right time he has signed for them. There are also numerous items for sale in auction houses that bear signatures of his that have been signed within the past decade or so. He is unquestionably the most scarce of living Apollo astronauts (if not the most scarce of all flown Apollo astronauts), but he has also made many signing exceptions. His willingness to sign now for a $2500 donation to a charitable organization (and an organization that should be of interest to anyone interested in his autograph, ie aviation/space), further makes his autograph accessible to anyone with - albeit - considerable funds and a matching desire.

Although Anders was the bane of my collecting existance for many, many years, I still infinitely prefer his approach to autographs today than I do someone who steadfastly refuses to sign for anyone ever. At least there's 'wiggle-room' with Anders. With enough cash, he will sign. Alternatively, you may just get lucky and get one in person...if you play your cards right and the circumstances are in your favour.

Spacefest
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posted 03-10-2010 06:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Francis, I hoped and expected to hear from you on this matter. I know Mr. Anders is a friend (of yours) and has probably helped SDASM in ways I could not know. I DO know that he admires Frank Borman, but I sense some snarkiness in his recollection of Lovell's role on A8.

Borman and Lovell (and Collins) all had experience in space. I suspect Borman and Lovell were especially close from spending (I think it's still a record) TWO WEEKS aboard the cramped flying toilet that was Gemini 7. I'll bet those two knew EVERYTHING about each other.

Maybe it's because post-Apollo, Borman and Anders were both Fortune 500 aviation co. CEOs, while Lovell became only a lowly restaurateur, I don't know.

I think these guys are all supermen and what I call "superior humans" but in the end they are guilty of some of the seven deadly sins.

FFrench
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posted 03-10-2010 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It seems that I should clarify, I am speaking solely for myself and these are my personal impressions in the thread above, not for or about SDASM (which would be another long story). The personal impressions I list above were formed long before I began at the museum, and haven't changed in the years since.

DChudwin
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posted 03-10-2010 09:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DChudwin   Click Here to Email DChudwin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by A.Pelago:
Maybe it's because post-Apollo, Borman and Anders were both Fortune 500 aviation co. CEOs, while Lovell became only a lowly restaurateur, I don't know.
Jim Lovell did work in private industry and retired as vice president of Centel. While he was not the CEO of companies as large as those Borman or Anders headed, Lovell was quite successful financially. This success allowed him to set up his son Jay in the wonderful restaurant, Lovell's of Lake Forest (which is not too far from where we live).

Spacefest
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From: Tucson, AZ USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted 03-10-2010 11:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn't mean to suggest that Jim Lovell was not a success, Indeed, he does quite well on the lecture circuit, not to mention movie royalties, book sales, appearances, and such.

leslie
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Posts: 208
From: Surrey, England
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 03-12-2010 06:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for leslie   Click Here to Email leslie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
Simply put, he dislikes signing autographs for his admirers and has chosen to limit the numbers on the market so he can artificially inflate their value.
With respect, to suggest that Bill Anders is trying to artificially inflate the price of his signature is naive if not just plain silly.

It could well be that he does not agree with the phenomenon of autograph values and, like Neil Armstrong, resents the possibility of an eBay profit resulting from his signature.

I believe his career CV speaks for itself and to shun the spotlight, in comparison to other astronauts, is his choice.

Being relatively reclusive should not demean his status on the one Apollo flight.

For the record, his was not the first Earthrise photo taken on that flight. Borman's was but it was black and white and NASA preferred to hype up the colour version.

mjanovec
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Posts: 3622
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 03-12-2010 11:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by leslie:
With respect, to suggest that Bill Anders is trying to artificially inflate the price of his signature is naive if not just plain silly.

Respectfully, I think it's naive to think otherwise. Remember that the reasons that Anders cited for his signature being worth $2500 included the fact that his autograph isn't "common" and that his autograph is needed to complete a collection of Apollo astronauts signatures. Since he controls the amount of signatures that are available (and how common they are), he uses it as justification to set a high price. If that's what he wants to do, it's his right...but I don't think it puts him in the same category as Neil Armstrong.

I suspect DChudwin is correct in his theory that Anders gets a sense of satisfaction by restricting his signature from autograph collectors. Somewhere along the line, he appears to have developed a bad attitude towards the hobby and collectors...and that if one recognizes Anders in a crowd and approaches him for an autograph, he'll think of them as a "nerd" (a term he used in his JSC oral history).

xlsteve
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Posts: 376
From: Holbrook MA, USA
Registered: Jul 2008

posted 03-12-2010 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for xlsteve   Click Here to Email xlsteve     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
...he'll think of them as a "nerd" (a term he used in his JSC oral history).
Wouldn't be the first time I've been called a nerd because of one of my hobbies. Look at it this way -- without "nerds" there wouldn't have been a space program.

Spacefest
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Posts: 1092
From: Tucson, AZ USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted 03-12-2010 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think Anders, like Armstrong, is making his autograph more desirable, by making it "scarce", though for different reasons. Basic supply and demand... Maybe.

However both remove themselves from all the commerce going on when profits could be going to charity, they go to dealers (like me). I understand Armstrong's error, but Anders is a Harvard Business School grad.

Armstrong and Anders aren't scarce, just expensive. I have six Anders in my collection, and I am not even trying.

Every time you try to manipulate the market, it has unintended results. I personally don't WANT A&A to sign again.

DChudwin
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Posts: 1017
From: Lincolnshire IL USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 03-12-2010 01:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DChudwin   Click Here to Email DChudwin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Spacefest:
However both remove themselves from all the commerce going on when profits could be going to charity, they go to dealers (like me). I understand Armstrong's error, but Anders is a Harvard Business School grad.
Even though they are at an inflated price of $2,500, the "Earthrise" prints that Gen. Anders has signed go to charity, including ASF and Heritage Flight Museum. Anders does not need the money personally so all the proceeds go directly to good causes.

I agree that Anders, by rarely signing, is manipulating the market. Also, I do believe, based on his letter to me and his conversations with me and other collectors,
that he derives some odd satisfaction in frustrating collectors by making his autograph so scarce. I also believe he does not have much respect for autograph collectors

But I guess when you are in his income bracket, $2,500 to charity is not a lot of money.

FFrench
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Posts: 3095
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-12-2010 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We put on a special signing event today and we are in the closing minutes - where is everyone?

FFrench
Member

Posts: 3095
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-12-2010 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ah, too late, he's put the price back up again... I'd better pay up.

...all joking aside, supporting the ASF and other charitable organizations is a very worthy gesture which I’d strongly encourage, whether in this or other forms.

dss65
Member

Posts: 852
From: Sandpoint, ID, USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 03-12-2010 09:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dss65   Click Here to Email dss65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good one! Gotta love it!


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