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  Astronaut John Bull (1934-2008) (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Astronaut John Bull (1934-2008)
SPACEFACTS
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posted 08-14-2008 09:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SPACEFACTS   Click Here to Email SPACEFACTS     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Former NASA astronaut John S. Bull passed away on August 11, 2008.

John S. Bull, former NASA astronaut, dies

John Bull, a former NASA astronaut who due to illness was forced to resign while supporting what would become the first crewed mission to the Moon, died August 11 at age 73.

A moment of silence can be signified by an entry with no words and only a period.

Delta7
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posted 08-14-2008 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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Rick Mulheirn
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ApolloAlex
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Henk Boshuijer
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Joe Frasketi
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MSS
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Tom
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ea757grrl
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NavySpaceFan
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E2M Lem Man
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KSCartist
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Lunar rock nut
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randy
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saturn1b
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gliderpilotuk
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GACspaceguy
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kr4mula
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Delta7
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posted 08-15-2008 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any word on the official cause of death, and if it was related to the condition that kept him from flying in space?

I've thought for a long time that Bull stood a good chance of walking on the moon had he not been diagnosed with that pulmonary condition. Deke Slayton stated that he rated Bull near the top of the 5th astronaut group, and was sorry to lose him.

RIP.

jasonelam
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astro-nut
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FFrench
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posted 08-16-2008 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delta7:
Deke Slayton stated that he rated Bull near the top of the 5th astronaut group, and was sorry to lose him.
I have never heard that one, that I recall - what is your source for that? I have read that Deke considered Bull a likely pick for one of the early LMP slots.

Delta7
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posted 08-16-2008 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FFrench:
I have never heard that one, that I recall - what is your source for that?
I'm trying to remember exactly where, but I remember reading that Haise, Mitchell, Irwin and Bull were the top-rated LMPs from that group.

FFrench
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posted 08-16-2008 11:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indeed, in his book with Mike Cassutt Deke says Bull was "a great guy and would have been one of my early picks for a lunar module pilot." That is, quite possibly, a little different from being near the top of the whole group, as it seems that Deke generally seemed to choose those guys for CMP slots, allowing them a normally quicker route to command positions. Not always, but...

In any event, Bull certainly sounds like a talented aviator. I had an E-mail from a member of his group this week saying, amongst other things, "He was a great guy."

spaceman
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Delta7
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posted 08-16-2008 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FFrench:
Deke seemed to choose those guys for CMP slots, allowing them a quicker route to command positions.
True, but Fred Haise WAS the #1 rated guy from that group (according to Deke) and was an LMP from the outset. Plus the fact that Bull would have been an early selectee for any Apollo crew position puts him in the top tier of the group (albeit with some other talented individuals).

spaceman1953
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posted 08-16-2008 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaceman1953   Click Here to Email spaceman1953     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*

Thank you for your work to get us to the Moon.

Gene Bella
South Bend

FFrench
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posted 08-16-2008 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delta7:
but Fred Haise WAS the #1 rated guy from that group (according to Deke)
I don't ever remember reading Deke having said that one, either. I'd certainly be interested in your source there...

Delta7
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posted 08-16-2008 10:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike Collins, a member of the Group 5 selection committee, said in "Carrying The Fire" that Haise came out as the #1 candidate (using a point scoring system established by Slayton). Slayton, when assigning Haise to the Apollo 8 backup crew, referred to him as "the best trained of the guys available". Clearly, Haise stood out among the rest of the members of Group 5. He served on 2 backup crews (for 2 historic missions) before anyone else from his group served on a crew. He was the only Group 5 astronaut actually entrusted with potential command of a lunar landing mission. He was clearly at the very top of the Group 5 pecking order. IMO, Mitchell, Irwin, Mattingly, Roosa, Worden and Bull, along with Haise (and Givens before his untimely death) constituted the top tier of Group 5. Same as McDivitt/Borman/Armstrong in Group 2 and Scott/Bassett/Collins/Gordon in Group 3.

RichieB16
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posted 08-16-2008 10:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RichieB16   Click Here to Email RichieB16     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FFrench:
That is possibly a little different from being near the top of the whole group, as it seems that Deke generally seemed to choose those guys for CMP slots, allowing them a normally quicker route to command positions.
Also, according to Deke!, he chose astronauts for CMP slots who were experienced for the early missions. He felt that the CMP needed an experienced astronaut-preferably one with docking experience-for that job. Now, he said this didn't apply for the first couple missions where there was no docking (this is why Apollo 1 was originally Grissom/Eisele/Chaffee... he felt that a "weaker" crew could fly this mission; the same is true for the original crew of Apollo 2 - Schirra/Eisele/Cunningham). So, I doubt Slayton would have assigned a rookie astronaut as a CMP on an earlier flight until he had too. And, if you look at how it worked out... Apollo 13 was the first Apollo docking mission with a rookie CMP.

RichieB16
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chappy
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ColinBurgess
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posted 08-17-2008 04:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Re the original crew of Apollo 1, for our book "In the Shadow of the Moon" Francis French and I received personal confirmation from Harriet Eisele and backup crewmembers Wally Schirra and Walt Cunningham that the original Apollo 1 crew was Grissom, White and Eisele. Deke Slayton was going to place either Eisele or Chaffee with Grissom and White and chose Eisele, but of course an injury soon after meant that he was replaced and reassigned to the backup crew, while Roger Chaffee took his place. I know this contradicts what is said in the book "Deke" (page 164) and I wish I had a confirming memo or document to this effect, but an extensive search of NASA records from that period by a Houston-based researcher failed to turn up any supporting documentation relating to the original crew. However I feel the clear recollections of those three people is more than sufficient. In fact Harriet Eisele told us that the injury saved Donn's life.

eurospace
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ColinBurgess
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Moonwalker1954
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cddfspace
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ejectr
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FFrench
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posted 08-18-2008 06:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delta7:
Mike Collins, a member of the Group 5 selection committee, said in "Carrying The Fire" that Haise came out as the #1 candidate (using a point scoring system established by Slayton).

Ah, okay, so in Collins' words, not anything Deke wrote - thanks for the clarification...


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