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Author Topic:   Lisa Nowak arrested on attempted kidnap, battery charges
FutureAstronaut
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posted 02-06-2007 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FutureAstronaut   Click Here to Email FutureAstronaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For those interested in watching, her court appearance is on TV as we speak.

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posted 02-06-2007 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FutureAstronaut   Click Here to Email FutureAstronaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bail set at $10,000, on top of the original $15,500. She will also have a GPS ankle bracelet.

Scott
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posted 02-06-2007 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tonight on Larry King Live:
Exclusive: Former astronaut Buzz Aldrin speaks to Larry about Lisa Marie Nowak, the astronaut charged with attempted murder and kidnapping. Watch tonight at 9 ET.

albatron
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posted 02-06-2007 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for albatron   Click Here to Email albatron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
$10,000 for Attempted 1st Degree Murder? $15,500 for the other charges? SOMEONES got a good attorney.

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posted 02-06-2007 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rpb2   Click Here to Email rpb2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just pray for her husband and children. Just saw on the TV they're letting her out on bail, she just can't go east of Orande County (to the Cape). Needless to say it will be a very quiet homecoming back in Houston for her. Very, very sad. You hate to see your heroes fall and for what? Something like this? Unreal.

capoetc
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posted 02-06-2007 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
Whoa! Perhaps we should wait for the trial and possible conviction before making a judgement about her "need" to go to prison, about her being a "bad/evil person" or being "a bad seed" or even judge her level of sanity.
Wow! Did I miss it, or did it actually take 3 pages of posts before someone said this?

It would probably be a good idea to ease up on some of the speculation until more of the facts become known.

Dirk
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posted 02-06-2007 04:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dirk   Click Here to Email Dirk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So you see thy are no heroes, but just people like you and me.

They are just human beeings, and what happened, happens every day, every where in the world.

Lisa Nowak flew over 1500 hours on 30 planes or so, but she is also married and has three children.

She knew what she was doing as I read her statement. I hope that she will be treated as normal people doing the same thing.

It will only prove that the US justice is a good justice.

randy
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posted 02-06-2007 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for randy   Click Here to Email randy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Like several others have said-WOW! I hope she gets the help she needs.

Glint
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posted 02-06-2007 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glint   Click Here to Email Glint     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Scott:
Tonight on Larry King Live...
Why? Is King hoping to connect today's news with the Bart Sibrel incident?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-06-2007 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Glint:
Why? Is King hoping to connect today's news with the Bart Sibrel incident?
I was interviewed today by a national magazine that asked about today's astronauts and their family lives. One of the topics that was raised concerned the Apollo (and earlier) era astronauts who have since commented about their own struggle balancing their families with the pressures of their chosen profession. I have no insight into what Dr. Aldrin might speak about tonight, but this might be one of the topics Larry King raises.

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posted 02-06-2007 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark Zimmer   Click Here to Email Mark Zimmer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lunatiki:
I've seen several posts saying "I hope she gets the help she needs". How about fired in disgrace and prison time?
Why do you think these are mutually exclusive? We're not talking about a career criminal here; assuming the allegations are true I think we have someone whose life, once well functioning, has gotten completely messed up. She may need to be fired and serve time, but that doesn't mean she doesn't also need some serious help.

Dirk
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posted 02-06-2007 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dirk   Click Here to Email Dirk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
One of the topics that was raised concerned the Apollo (and earlier) era astronauts who have since commented about their own struggle balancing their families with the pressures of their chosen profession.
There can be a personal story told about every moonwalker after his moonwalk indeed...

space4u
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posted 02-06-2007 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for space4u   Click Here to Email space4u     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I read online at Nowak's wikipedia site (which has been updated with all this stuff today) that her husband is a flight controller for the ISS at NASA. They also had some good links to prior interviews including one from a Navy site that is in an audio interview format.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-06-2007 06:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA release
Statement Regarding the Status of Lisa Nowak

The following is a statement from Michael Coats, director of NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston, regarding the status of astronaut Lisa Nowak.

"We are deeply saddened by this tragic event. The charges against Lisa Nowak are serious ones that must be decided by the judicial system. She is officially on 30-day leave and has been removed from flight status and all mission-related activities. We will continue to monitor developments in the case."

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posted 02-06-2007 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lunatiki   Click Here to Email Lunatiki     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Scott:
Tonight on Larry King Live...
Buzz Aldrin seems like a logical choice to discuss this with. He has been open about fighting his own demons.

Tonyspace
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posted 02-06-2007 07:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tonyspace   Click Here to Email Tonyspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You talk about sick. Your not going to believe this on eBay #160082911886

SRB
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posted 02-06-2007 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SRB   Click Here to Email SRB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is Lisa Nowak the first American astronaut to have flown in space and later been accused of a serious crime? I know of several who have had personal and family problems, but no situation at all like this.

The publicity generated by this crime will be a top news story for years. This story has it all; love, sex, betrayal, and "famous" good looking people. So I'm not surprised that Larry King is ready to drop everything else and put it on the very first night. I imagine that books will be written and moves made. Right now I feel sorry for the victims, and Lisa Nowak's family, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for Lisa Nowak in view of her planning for days (or weeks) a violent crime and then attempting it carry it out. The accounts so far - if true and proven - portray Lisa Nowak as a cold blooded and ruthless stalker and attacker of another woman. And that characterization accepts Lisa Nowak's claim that she was only trying to scare Shipman, not kidnap or murder her. It a tragedy all right, but the immediate cause of it is Lisa Nowak's violent actions.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-06-2007 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Statement From the Family of Lisa Nowak
The following is a statement from the family of Lisa Nowak:

We will not be granting interviews at this time, but do want to issue the following statement in response to numerous media requests.

We are naturally saddened and extremely concerned about the serious allegations being made against Lisa. We love her very much, and right now, our primary focus is on her health and well-being.

Lisa is a very intelligent, accomplished individual. As a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, and in her professional career in the Navy and NASA's Space Shuttle program, she has served over 20 years with an unblemished record. Lisa attained the rank of Captain, and flew as a Mission Specialist aboard the Space Shuttle Discovery in July 2006.

Personally, Lisa is an extremely caring and dedicated mother to her three children. She has been married for 19 years, although she and her husband had separated a few weeks ago.

Considering both her personal and professional life, these alleged events are completely out of character and have come as a tremendous shock to our family.

We are anxious to allow the facts to develop so that we can better understand what happened, and why. We hope that the public will keep an open mind about what the facts will eventually show and that the legal system will be allowed to run its course.

Finally, we are very grateful for the expressions of love and support that we have received from family and friends, and we ask for your continued thoughts and prayers for our family.

The Family of Lisa Nowak

KSCartist
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posted 02-06-2007 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I urge everyone to demonstrate restraint and compassion for everyone involved in this tragic event. We only know part of the story and what we know is a very sad fall of a person held in high esteem.

Lisa Nowak traveled 900 miles and dangerously confronted someone who she felt was an obstacle to her future happiness. Why did she feel the need to take such drastic actions, we don't know.

She will pay for her actions as she should. But we don't need to pile on to the pain. People we all hold in high regard are suffering tonight. They will be under intense media scrutiny for a long time. Some of it deserved and some unfair and painful.

None of us is perfect. Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. Lets let the process work, the story will come out, and pray for the victims of this tragedy: Colleen Shipman, Lisa's children and her family and friends who may have noticed something and didn't or couldn't stop it.

I met Steve Lindsey when he escorted Evelyn Husband for the dedication of the Astronaut Memorial for the crew of STS-107 in October 2003. He had served as the CAO for the Husband Family. It was sad duty that he performed with dignity. Today he had to escort a fellow astronaut and crew member out of jail after being arraigned for a felony. My guess is this hurt just as much.

divemaster
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posted 02-06-2007 10:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lead in for the 11 O'Clock News: "Lust In Space"

I wonder what intern thought that one up?

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posted 02-06-2007 11:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While this is a pretty sad situation, spare the high dundgeon about "waiting for a trial" -- read the statement that she made to the police after being read her rights. She *did this* -- the only question that's really open is whether there's enough to add the attempted murder charge on top of it all. That struck me as much more a tactical decision by the prosecutors to deal with what was a pretty lenient decision on bail.

Yeah, it's awful for everyone. But the only question out there, really, is the punishment this sad woman is going to face. Hopefully, the DA will cut her a fair deal in light of her previous, honorable service to this country. I hope she can find satisfying work teaching her fellow prisoners some math skills to cope in the outside world and, with that, find some new meaning to her life. Since her old life is, for all purposes, over.

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posted 02-06-2007 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dennisl   Click Here to Email dennisl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rodina:
While this is a pretty sad situation, spare the high dundgeon about "waiting for a trial" -- read the statement that she made to the police after being read her rights. She *did this* -- the only question that's really open is whether there's enough to add the attempted murder charge on top of it all. That struck me as much more a tactical decision by the prosecutors to deal with what was a pretty lenient decision on bail.
This is absolutely true. She did do this. According to the police report, she was advised of her Miranda rights and provided the information. Now it will come down to which charge or charges the DA will pursue (attempted kidnapping; attempted murder; or assault).

Most importantly, this an extremely sad day for the innocent victims in this bizarre story - her three children (and Bill O's two children, as well). I pray for them all to have strength to be able to get through this ordeal.

mjanovec
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posted 02-07-2007 12:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rodina:
I hope she can find satisfying work teaching her fellow prisoners some math skills to cope in the outside world and, with that, find some new meaning to her life. Since her old life is, for all purposes, over.
Wow... you already have her sitting in a prison cell, teaching inmates math skills because her own life is over. Incredible.

The reason we should "wait for the trial" is to simply wait for more details to emerge from this, discover motivations, find out more about what led up to these events, and find out what medical and mental evaluations reveal about her. This case is still fresh (still less than 48 hours old) and we haven't heard all of it. A crime was likely committed, but the severity of the crime and how it will be punished is far from having been determined.

When you say "she did this" keep in mind exactly what she said she did. She said she wanted to talk to Shipman and did, in fact, spray her with pepper spray. She *did not* admit to any kidnapping or attempted murder plot. And that's what a trial will have to answer for. We can sit here and guess at her intentions, but only a trial will determine what she will be found guilty of (if anything). Until that happens, let's not have her teaching math to fellow inmates in prison.

I do agree the attempted murder charge was likely a tactical ploy to keep her in jail and that if they truly felt she was going to murder Shipman, the charge would have been made sooner. Also, unless new evidence comes forward, I think they would have a really tough time proving attempted murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

spaced out
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posted 02-07-2007 02:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's ironic that this story got more coverage on the main French news last night than the total coverage during her 13 day shuttle mission.

spacecraft films
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posted 02-07-2007 03:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What I find ironic is the fact that this thread (as of now) has over 104 postings in about 24 hours, more than any I think I have seen before (other than the long term postings in the Spaceflight magazine discussion).

When we discuss how this story has had far more coverage than any space mission coverage, perhaps this forum community is proving the media's own point. The topic seems of greater interest - even here - than any recent discussion of a single spaceflight or specific space topic.

Something to think about...

kimmern123
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posted 02-07-2007 05:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kimmern123   Click Here to Email kimmern123     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As her family noted she separated from her husband a few weeks ago. That probably had an impact on her.

I think we should wait and see what the police finds out, and then she should get here punishment. I just hope this doesn't ruin Oefelein's career.

At least by some news media this case has been blown out of proportions. Here in Norway the case filled almost the entire front page of the country's biggest newspaper. I think that's the first time since the Columbia-tragedy.

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posted 02-07-2007 05:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fabfivefreddy   Click Here to Email fabfivefreddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I happened to be in the Orlando airport this a.m. on a business trip. There was a media circus here.

I do not think it is fair to look at the so-called media "facts" of this case. Nowak deserves a fair trial and has rights. The judicial system is here for that reason.

The media portrays her "stress" as an astronaut as a cause of her alleged behavior. This is a ridiculous claim. Her astronaut status in not a "cause" of this alleged behavior. But it sure makes a great news story...

PowerCat
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posted 02-07-2007 06:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PowerCat   Click Here to Email PowerCat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was reading Tom Jones' book the other week and I recall a story of how Mark Lee was pulled off the STS-98 crew shortly after it was learned that Mark and his wife Jan Davis were going through a nasty divorce.

It's sad to see such an incident take place, but let the legal system run its course first. It will be safe to bet that Mrs Nowak will not fly in space again nor may Mr. Oeflein if he faces military charges for adultery (a punishable offense in the sevice).

hlbjr
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posted 02-07-2007 09:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hlbjr   Click Here to Email hlbjr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There's now a story saying that Mrs. Nowak used her government connections to track down where Ms. (Capt.) Shipman lived etc. This is rather damning if true. When you put together the mallet, rubber hose, trash bags, obsessive stalking, etc. this could very well have been much worse.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-07-2007 10:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Harvey, the article you cited is based on a restraining order filed by Ms. Shipman, which in turn was only based on her own speculation. If you read the order (it's online), you'll see that Ms. Shipman's account is less than specific. She filed the restraining order at the direction of the Orlando police. She claims that Nowak stalked her for two months, but provides no other details then the incident that led to Nowak's arrest.

KC Stoever
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posted 02-07-2007 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KC Stoever   Click Here to Email KC Stoever     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could anyone kindly report here on Buzz Aldrin's appearance on Larry King last night? I was not able to see the show.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-07-2007 10:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kris, if it helps, CNN has a transcript online.

DChudwin
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posted 02-07-2007 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DChudwin   Click Here to Email DChudwin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is a mistake to rush to judgment on this matter because we do not have all the facts about her mental condition and exactly what happened.

My sympathies are with all those involved.

KSCartist
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posted 02-07-2007 10:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KC Stoever:
Could anyone kindly report here on Buzz Aldrin's appearance on Larry King last night? I was not able to see the show.
It was "generalities" at best. Buzz confirmed the physical and psychological testing that is conducted prior to slection. He bemoaned the fact that while there are regularly scheduled reunions for other teams (namely his squadron) there are none for the team of astronauts who flew in M-G-A.

I was hoping he would speak to the depression that can envelope a highly trained and motivated person post flight. It happened to him and could be a possible explanation for Nowak's actions. Miles O'Brien even opened the door for that to happen but good ol' Larry King (who should have retired years ago) never took the bait.

In my opinion, King wanted to jump on this story to be first with analysis and discussion but his effort was a waste of time.

KC Stoever
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posted 02-07-2007 11:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KC Stoever   Click Here to Email KC Stoever     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, Tim (and Rob, for the transcript).

Sounds like a lost opportunity indeed. The psychological/psychiatric screening for astronauts -- prior to their selection -- is generally exhaustive.

And then there is the psych screening produced just by military service, especially combat flying. If you're vulnerable to inordinate stress (there's no shame in this: some people are), the evidence will written up in your service jacket, and NASA will see it, and consider you ineligible, when you apply to the astronaut corps.

Here's the question: For the all the screening NASA does on its astronauts PRIOR to selection, how much earnest, annual, follow-up screening is done for the astronauts after missions, after accidents like Challenger and Columbia (or Apollo 1), and after extreme life stressors like divorce?

I ask because I really don't know about how the shuttle-era astronauts are medically treated. I understand none was done for M-G-A astronauts. Aldrin could have discussed this.

On edit: The 1959 selection process that produced the Project Mercury astronauts, by the way, is sometimes lampooned or derided as having been totally over-the-top psychiatric nitpicking (especially phase 4 of a 5-phase process which consisted of three days with air force shrinks who had earlier developed the tests used for identifying U2 pilots).

The proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating. I say three days of expert probing is a superior selection tool to cursory one-hour exam carried out in a cultural environment (military flying) that is professionally leery of psychiatry and even medicine itself.

Glint
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posted 02-07-2007 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glint   Click Here to Email Glint     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kimmern123:
I just hope this doesn't ruin Oefelein's career.
The Commander may have some worries if, after her trial, he is viewed as having conducted himself in a way unbecoming of an officer. I'm not assuming that he has done so, but with adultery still being a no-no in the military code of justice poking on a married woman might not be viewed too highly.

mjanovec
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posted 02-07-2007 11:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KSCartist:
I was hoping he would speak to the depression that can envelope a highly trained and motivated person post flight. It happened to him and could be a possible explanation for Nowak's actions. Miles O'Brien even opened the door for that to happen but good ol' Larry King (who should have retired years ago) never took the bait.
I noticed this too... it was probably the topic most closely related to the Nowak incident that Buzz could shed some light on, but it was totally passed over by Larry. The problem was that he was juggling 5 different guests simultaneously, but managed to cover nothing of any significance (a Larry King specialty, perhaps?).

I always get a laugh out of how King introduces a guest and then immediately turns the attention away from the guest before the guest has a chance to say a word.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-07-2007 11:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KC Stoever:
Here's the question: For the all the screening NASA does on its astronauts PRIOR to selection, how much earnest, annual, follow-up screening is done for the astronauts after missions, after accidents like Challenger and Columbia (or Apollo 1), and after extreme life stressors like divorce?
To my knowledge, there are no annual psychological screenings (as there are for medical examinations). There is help available "on demand" but given the competition within the astronaut office there exists a motivation not to seek assistance less they give TPTB any reason to jeopardize their chances for a(nother) flight assignment (as was raised by Aldrin last night). Mike Mullane covers this topic in his book, Riding Rockets (Chapter 27: Castle Intrigue).

KC Stoever
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posted 02-07-2007 11:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KC Stoever   Click Here to Email KC Stoever     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A couple of interesting comments from the CNN transcripts:
Ken Miller, Ladies Home Journal: Well, I was doing a story for "Ladies Home Journal" on mothers with dangerous jobs. And the first person they wanted to get was Lisa Nowak. You know, about 5 percent of people in -- of astronauts have not come back alive, so you need quite a lot of courage to do that job.

King: Was she cooperative?

Miller: She was very cooperative, yes. Seemed grounded, articulate, open and perfectly sane.

King: Were you in person or on the phone?

Miller: On the phone.

King: Did she give any sign of any hyperactivity [huh? hyperactive?--kcs note], anything along those lines?

Miller: No, nothing along those lines at all. I mean, my impression was she was a very driven person, very dedicated, the kind of person who to get into flight test pilot school had tried -- had applied six times and gone back and done it until she got in.

(emphasis supplied)

Is this unusual? Applying so many times to get into Test Pilot School (I am assuming Miller is referring to Patuxent.) My understanding is that one is nominated to TPS. You're then appointed--or not. Patuxent decides.

Then there was this comment:

King: Dr. Ludwig, our psychotherapist, author of "Till Death Do Us Part," what's your read?

Dr. Robi Ludwig: Well, you know, I wonder, with somebody who is so ambitious, if there's something about the strong pursuit of the dream that can actually keep you psychologically together. And if there's something about achieving that dream and not having anything to pursue, that contributed to her unraveling.

martyn20
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posted 02-07-2007 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for martyn20   Click Here to Email martyn20     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It was good to see Steve Lindsay with Lisa when she arrived back in Houston, great to see her friends and co-workers at Nasa are there by her side at this time of great stress for her.

I feel confident that although we do not know anywhere near all the facts of this case she does need help and support and that she will get that from Nasa and the Navy.


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