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Author Topic:   Lisa Nowak arrested on attempted kidnap, battery charges
Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-06-2007 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
An update from the Orlando Sentinel:
[Nowak] was being held on no bond at Orange County Jail, but a judge this morning set bail at $15,500.

Her commander at NASA, Steve Lindsey, and fellow astronaut Chris Ferguson both appeared on her behalf this morning.

MarylandSpace
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posted 02-06-2007 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MarylandSpace   Click Here to Email MarylandSpace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am saddened.

But haven't you, a family member, a friend, or a co-worker lost it or almost lost it at one time.

I hope that her friends will not desert her.

I am grateful for my friends, including my cS friends, who have helped and picked me up in my journeys.

We hold our astronaut friends up to high standards, but they like us, are people, too.

fireflyer21
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posted 02-06-2007 09:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fireflyer21   Click Here to Email fireflyer21     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dr. Santy's blog sounds like an attempt to get interviews and sell books. She seems to imply that the attempts by NASA to put the astronauts on a pedestal will lead to these types of situations.

The people on this board, and anyone else who has more than a superficial knowledge of the history of NASA, knows that relationship problems have existed in the astronaut corps in the past. Of course, it also exists in the non-astronaut population as well. It's not the relationship problem that is so shocking in this instance, it is how it was dealt with, and I frankly can't see how being an astronaut contributed the particulars of this sad, scary story.

Does my respect and admiration for those who risk their lives to explore space cause me to treat them as "demigods?" I guess everyone that visits this site is part of the "whose ridiculous exploits the public follows with obsessive interest" crowd.

spacecraft films
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posted 02-06-2007 09:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I've been considering it for some time now. I suppose I'll have to go ahead and announce the upcoming release of our "Astronauts Gone Wild" DVD collection.

SPACEFACTS
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posted 02-06-2007 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SPACEFACTS   Click Here to Email SPACEFACTS     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't forget Lisa's three children. As far as I know today is the birthday of her oldest child.

cspg
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posted 02-06-2007 10:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by zee_aladdin:
Aristotle said that people outside society are either gods or beasts, and this just shows that we are all human and that we constantly need each other for love and guidance in life.
We've seen the beasts, where are the gods? Hiding? That's what my doctor answered when I asked where the "happy" people were...

KC Stoever
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posted 02-06-2007 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KC Stoever   Click Here to Email KC Stoever     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was interested to see Dr. Pat Santy's take in her eponymous blog (a blog I didn't even know about!).

A couple of thoughts (caveat: IANAP -- I am not a psychiatrist).

I don't know that the adulation that Dr. Santy describes in her "Crashing to Earth" post necessarily produces "acquired narcissism" in those who are excessively adored by strangers.

Seems to me a lot of very famous individuals are able to stay sane and balanced. They do not necessarily become narcissists who don diapers to drive nonstop from Houston to Orlando with a bunch wet-work paraphernalia in the car.

Several examples of unassuming nonnarcissists spring to mind from the astronaut corps and A-list actors and actresses.

We have, what, hundreds of living astronauts now?

It's safe to say that they are drawn from a cohort of high-achieving obsessive types--admirable individuals, but not perfect--the vast majority of whom manage to keep their worst emotions in check most of the time. As Rob noted, felony charges are a rarity among active-duty astronauts.

One astronaut has just gone off the deep end as we watch in horror. But to castigate NASA culture for her behavior? I dunno.

This alleged criminal behavior has roots, I believe, in her individual psychopathology. Very, very sad for her three children.

cspg
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posted 02-06-2007 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spacecraft films:
Well, I've been considering it for some time now. I suppose I'll have to go ahead and announce the upcoming release of our "Astronauts Gone Wild" DVD collection.
Love your post. Can't figure out if you're kidding or not!

That being said it's a sad story, for all those involved, and for our belief that astronauts are "special" people. Seeing one of them falling off the pedestal we've put them on, is sad.

Love is blind, they say. And with that, I can deal with the knife, the spray, the gloves, the trip, you name it.

But I had to laugh when it came to the diapers...Can you drive for 12 hours without refilling your car's fuel tank? and if so, then you can stop to go the bathroom? No?

Weird, very weird.

cspg
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posted 02-06-2007 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ejectr:
That ends that career...
I would be more worried about the kids.

Danno
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posted 02-06-2007 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Danno   Click Here to Email Danno     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris Ferguson, a pilot on the mission, also attended the hearing. Asked afterward about Nowak's behavior, Ferguson said "perplexed is the word I'm sticking with."

That sums it up pretty well.

thump
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posted 02-06-2007 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for thump   Click Here to Email thump     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One thing I hate about this, outside of the obvious, is that this is getting this much media, but shuttle/ISS operations get little, or no, media coverage.

cspg
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posted 02-06-2007 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
I find it interesting that people want to discuss this here on cS, yet people also also thought Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper's faltering during the crew return shouldn't be discussed or be news...
Agree 100%. Good point.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 02-06-2007 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thump:
One thing I hate about this, outside of the obvious, is that this is getting this much media, but shuttle/ISS operations get little, or no, media coverage.
It could be a couple of things, but people want to read about people, whether its an astronaut, their kid, or their senator. They may not know (or care) what a P3/P4 truss is, but they can identify with Nowak.

That said, people are more inclined to read - and editors are more inclined to include - something if it's local. I don't recall what our ISS/shuttle coverage from the last missions were, but I do know that we ran our own piece (not AP) when Polansky, whose family lives in the area, called home following his last mission.

Separately, how much coverage of ISS/shuttle is enough? Keep in mind that cS is a unique group of people who want to know all there is about the various space programs. There's other, more local news that the media outlets have to cover (unless they're dedicated entirely to covering the space program.)

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-06-2007 11:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
According to MSNBC ("Breaking News"), "Astronaut Lisa Nowak charged with first-degree attempted murder."

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 02-06-2007 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cspg:
But I had to laugh when it came to the diapers... Can you drive for 12 hours without refilling your car's fuel tank? and if so, then you can stop to go the bathroom?
Hmmmm... if it was one of the ones worn for launch and re-entry, will she be charged with stealing government property as well?

tegwilym
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posted 02-06-2007 11:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Last night during the preview of the news stories, I only heard half of the story and figured they weren't related. I thought they were mentioning something about Suninta William's new women spacewalking record. But then later found out that "Astronaut, kidnapping and diapers" were all the same story. I'm shocked and disappointed.

Well, like someone else in the list said "they are human after all". Hmmmm...

dcfowler1
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posted 02-06-2007 11:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dcfowler1   Click Here to Email dcfowler1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To say the Navy and NASA will take care of her is naive. She probably will keep her job in the short term, but her career is over. A felon, or someone with a potential felony conviction hanging over their head will not have the security clearances to do any meaningful work at CB.

As far as the Navy goes, she (as well as the other two people in the triangle)is a serving military officer. She is subject to court martial now, for among other things, adultery (which the military prosecutes), possibly having an inappropriate relationship with a subordinate (Oefelein), and potentially other issues resulting from her civilian legal problems. If Oefeilen was knowingly engaged in an inappropriate relationship with a married superior officer, then he too, will be subject to court martial proceedings by the Navy.

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posted 02-06-2007 11:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joe Holloway   Click Here to Email Joe Holloway     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The female CNN anchor just described the new accusation as, "this TRUMPED-UP murder charge."

Ouch.

mjanovec
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posted 02-06-2007 11:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lunatiki:
If this was your daughter or wife she tried to mace, kindnap and do God knows what else, would you just want her "to get the help she needs"?
Yes, I would. Because if someone tried to do that to someone I love, I would want them to get help to regain their sanity... so they never attempt to do it again.

The act Lisa allegedly did is indicative of someone who has lost control. It sounds like a mental instability... something that can likely be treated. I doubt that Lisa is an inherently bad person who should be locked up forever and have the key thrown away. To me, she seems like a good person who cracked... going over the edge for a couple of days.

Also, remember her children. They are the ones who will suffer the most because of this. If Lisa can get her act together and assuming she avoids a long prison sentence, she can hopefully still be a mother to her children.

If you want her fired, don't worry... she has essentially ripped up her ticket back into space. NASA will NEVER allow her to fly again, assuming she's ever a free woman again during the remainder of the Shuttle program. They simply won't want the publicity. There are too many unflown astronauts waiting for their first flight to risk the bad publicity of giving another flight to Lisa. In fact, I suspect Oefelein's spaceflight career is done too... he probably won't be fired, but the future flight assignments may never come.

If you want her disgraced, don't worry. Her case has been made VERY public and millions of complete strangers who otherwise never heard of Lisa Nowak know what she did and will have seen the mugshot. Her disgrace has been magnified for everyone to see. Granted, that seems to be the consequence of having a very public job and then messing up.

Prison time? If found guilty of the attempted kidnapping charges, I don't think there is anyway around it... we're looking at 5 years, 10 years, life...

If she's guilty, she needs to pay the consequences. Nobody here has said otherwise. But I hope she can get the help she needs to put the pieces of her life back together once she has paid for what she has done... both for her sake and her children's sake.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 02-06-2007 11:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
I find it interesting that people want to discuss this here on cS, yet people also also thought Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper's faltering during the crew return shouldn't be discussed or be news...
The objections raised following the STS-115 crew return were about the way that some of the media covered the story. I think that the same objections are valid to this story, as was pointed out by Jim Oberg on MSNBC. While the incident itself has hurt some people, the media coverage and the way in which it has been handled may result in hurting others — others who are innocent.

I struggled with this story last night, whether to post it to the message boards and whether to make any mention of it on the front page. I consulted several space journalists who were in the same position and the consensus was that it was a legitimate — albeit ugly and regrettable — news story. Most, like myself, didn't relish having to write about it. The editor of at least one other website (NASASpaceFlight.com) decided not to publish an article and initially restricted discussion to a password protected area of their forums.

Frankly, I was concerned about the shape that this discussion would take and briefly removed a few of the posts that I thought were potential causes for trouble. I've since restored those posts and have apologized by e-mail to their authors. I must say I am proud of our readers' level-headed approach to this news, especially when compared to the discussions posted on other sites.

I interviewed Lisa Nowak last summer and we all followed her mission. I still find it difficult to believe that the woman we saw in court this morning was the same astronaut who sat before me at Johnson Space Center and spoke about her dreams for spaceflight.

capcom9
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posted 02-06-2007 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capcom9   Click Here to Email capcom9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, this is just gonna' be great for PR at NASA. What a disappointment this is.

robsouth
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posted 02-06-2007 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for robsouth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Astronauts are only human and love/obsession can affect anyone depending on the circumstances of a person's life at that particular moment. Never met her, don't know much about her, but she's a human first and an astronaut second. Her actions sound like something out of a Hollywood movie, scarey isn't the word for it! God only knows what state her mind was in. But then again, you lot never heard of the saying "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".

East-Frisian
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posted 02-06-2007 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for East-Frisian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sad enough, that. Sad first of all for Colleen Shipman, then for the children, for William Oefelein, whoms career may end, too and for Lisa Nowak.

But we can point out everything, what could have been better, fact is, that things like this happen, all over the world and every time.

Bad PR for NASA wrote one of cS. Maybee, but was it an error of the NASA, that they selected Oefelein and Nowak? I dont think so.

1202 Alarm
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posted 02-06-2007 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 1202 Alarm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So, she is human? Trying to kidnap someone is now the ultimate proof that you're human? HELLLLLO?

Sorry, but for me, someone who planned and made such criminal things (attempted kidnapping, attempted vehicle burglary with battery, and misdemeanor charges of destruction of evidence and simple battery, PLUS charged with first-degree murder attempt, according to Florida authorities as I speak) is anything BUT Human.

I don't ask for more severity because she was (is, ok..) an astronaut, but at least not LESS.

mjanovec
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posted 02-06-2007 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cspg:
But I had to laugh when it came to the diapers... Can you drive for 12 hours without refilling your car's fuel tank? and if so, then you can stop to go the bathroom?
I suspect the logic was that, by wearing diapers, she wouldn't have to go inside of a convenience store to use the restrooms... cutting down on her chances of being caught on camera in a well-lit store. The fact that she only used cash on her travels also suggests she was avoiding leaving an evidence trail of her travels. Of course, this also suggests that she had something more sinister in mind than just "talking" to her rival.

space4u
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posted 02-06-2007 12:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for space4u   Click Here to Email space4u     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Orlando police just increased the charges against Lisa Nowak to include attempted murder. The police did this after the court granted her release on bail. Check the orlando sentinel and florida today websites for updates.

OV-105
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posted 02-06-2007 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for OV-105   Click Here to Email OV-105     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wonder if the ISS crew has been told about this? It is a shock to all of us just think wha it is for the people who know her. I think it would have been worse for NASA if they had been on the same flight or had flown together before.

Lunatiki
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posted 02-06-2007 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lunatiki   Click Here to Email Lunatiki     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
Yes, I would. Because if someone tried to do that to someone I love, I would want them to get help to regain their sanity... so they never attempt to do it again.

The act Lisa allegedly did is indicative of someone who has lost control. It sounds like a mental instability... something that can likely be treated.


To do what she did, the calculation and effort put into her plan, she was far from insane and it won't fly at any trial. She ruined a lot of people with her lust. Kids, husband, w/o doubt the career of Cmdr Oefelien will be greatly impacted. I'd say his shuttle rides are over. Some predictions to look for:
  1. Her defense laywers will try to use STS-107 as the trigger that started her downfall. She "just couldn't handle the loss of her friends".

  2. NASA will come out with a new policy on employee relationships.
She needs to go to prison. She isn't insane or "not feeling" well. You have to be a bad/evil person to do the things she did. I worked with bad and evil people in law enforcement. She isn't a nut, just a bad seed.

Gordon Reade
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posted 02-06-2007 12:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gordon Reade   Click Here to Email Gordon Reade     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anyone stopped to consider that if Lisa had flown on STS-107 she would be remembered as an American hero of the first order.

Such is the differance between a hero and a heel. Luck.

1202 Alarm
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posted 02-06-2007 12:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 1202 Alarm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gordon Reade:
Has anyone stopped to consider that if Lisa had flown on STS-107 she would be remembered as an American hero of the first order.
Sorry, don't get it bad, but this is totally absurd.

The STS-107 crew didn't chose their faith.

On the contrary, that woman choose (and made really good preparation) every criminal action she did. It wasn't the result of circumstances.

And last, you mean that the STS-107 crew were 'lucky' by dying in flames at Mach 7 since that prevented them to potentially do some criminal actions later?

Oh well...

CAC
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posted 02-06-2007 01:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CAC   Click Here to Email CAC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As any crime, this is tragic and hurts more people than those directly involved.

I think most of us need to stop and remember that this is terrible for the victim, Colleen Shipman.

We also need to keep in mind that Nowak is innocent until proven guilty.

Each jurisdiction is different but the way that this usually works is that police show up at the scene of a crime and fill out a report and affidavit. The person is held on the charges in that initial affidavit. They will go for a first appearance before a judge who will review the information submitted by the police and make a determination if probable cause does exist. If it doesn't, they are released. If it does, they get their bond set.

Now, keep in mind that all of this usually happens before the prosecutor (aka, district attorney) gets to look at the case. Once they do look at it, the prosecutor can amend the charges, especially if a subsequent investigation reveals more infomation than was known at the time of the arrest.

Based on the info we have, she planned this out, took very deliberate steps to carry it out, made efforts to disguise her identity and actually attacked Shipman. For some reason she failed to carry out her plan. But based just on what is in the news, her intent was to do serious harm and it isn't suprising that it was amended to attempted murder.

We are always fascinated when society breaks down. Crime is just that, society breaking down. Heidiemarie passing out is not society breaking down and shuttle missions are so regular that they aren't covered anymore. Likewise, when a rural meth lab is busted, it may get a little attention in the local news but not much. It is a rather common crime and it isn't paid much attention. This is an unusual crime involving unusual players.

Gordon Reade
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posted 02-06-2007 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gordon Reade   Click Here to Email Gordon Reade     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 1202 Alarm:
And last, you mean that the STS-107 crew were 'lucky' by dying in flames at Mach 7 since that prevented them to potentially do some criminal actions later?
You misunderstand me. I didn't say that the STS-107 crew chose their fate (although they may have chosen their "faith"). I didn't say that they were lucky to die.

If you read my post you will see that all I said was that if Lisa had been on STS-107 she would have been remembered as a hero.

1202 Alarm
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posted 02-06-2007 01:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 1202 Alarm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry Gordon, yes, I misunderstood you. Not only I can't write english well, I can't even understand it...

Yet I'm so angry about this thing. The EVA's of last week were so fabulous, and now all the focus will be on that pathetic thing.

zee_aladdin
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posted 02-06-2007 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for zee_aladdin   Click Here to Email zee_aladdin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am wondering if some will try to benefit from this by selling some of her stuff on eBay...

Well, I just answered my own question! Someone is already selling her signature on eBay and showing her mug shot and calling her the 'Arrested Astronaut'!

Any thoughts on this?

albatron
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posted 02-06-2007 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for albatron   Click Here to Email albatron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Holloway:
The female CNN anchor just described the new accusation as, "this TRUMPED-UP murder charge."
Imagine, CNN (or any network) being judgemental in their reporting. WAY too premature to state this.

This is an ugly event no matter how you slice it.

But the reality is, she drove 900+ miles to commit an act. SOMEWHERE along that route, something should have clicked in her that this was not a good choice or good thing to do.

That it did not shows her intent. That she planned it with the paraphernalia she had and used it upon arrival, shows pre-meditation. 900 miles of driving pre-meditation to boot.

Having read her arrest affidavit I was surprised they had not charged her with attempted murder previously. Now I see why they did not.

The initial bond of $15,500 was ludicrous. They probably knew the Judge's history, and waited until the bond was handed down. When it happened as they suspected, they then presented the previously written information in open court filing it at that time. This negates the low bond, and will result in either a higher one, or a no bond situation.

Had a reasonable bond been handed down, then they would have pursued the charges in depth, and then either taken it to a grand jury or filed the information direct. This would have given them time to follow up more.

This is not unusual. This situation is highly unusual. Yes NASA does a ton of psych screening, but nothing is infallible. And IF this is a character/personality flaw, she could have easily beaten the screening.

There are 3 sets of victims here: Her kids first and foremost, her husband and then Shipman - and assuming there's not more behind Shipman's actions. Not suggesting there was.

Scott
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posted 02-06-2007 02:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by zee_aladdin:
I am wondering if some will try to benefit from this by selling some of her stuff on eBay...
In my opinion, selling or bidding on her autograph right now is not really appropriate. Give it at least a week or month. It can wait. There was an auction on A-A that Kim ended. Thanks Kim.

FutureAstronaut
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posted 02-06-2007 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FutureAstronaut   Click Here to Email FutureAstronaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I too am in complete disbelief. I first read this here last night, and when I woke up, I had to come read this again to make sure I wasn't dreaming.

I too hope that she gets the help she needs, but that she is also punished for what she has done.

I am sure this has ended her NASA career. Thinking about it, she is probably as shocked as we are.

I hope that she is punished, but that nothing else pops up that will destroy the careers of both Ms. Shipman, or Mr. Oefelein.

mjanovec
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posted 02-06-2007 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by albatron:
Yes NASA does a ton of psych screening, but nothing is infallible. And IF this is a character/personality flaw, she could have easily beaten the screening.
Good point. Also remember that she was selected as an astronaut in 1996, which was probably around the time that she went through the majority of the psych screening. Her frame of mind and general mental health may have been completely different then from what it is now. Normal, healthy, happy people have gone downhill a lot faster than 10 years.

I heard other people off-list suggest that NASA failed in it's screening attempts. How many people suspected that OJ was capable of murder a decade before it happened?

gliderpilotuk
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Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-06-2007 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Scott:
In my opinion, selling or bidding on her autograph right now is not really appropriate. Give it at least a week or month. It can wait.
Yeah but this is disgraceful... complete with allegations and mugshot just to make it even more salacious.

mjanovec
Member

Posts: 3593
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 02-06-2007 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lunatiki:
She needs to go to prison. She isn't insane or "not feeling" well. You have to be a bad/evil person to do the things she did. I worked with bad and evil people in law enforcement. She isn't a nut, just a bad seed.
Whoa! Perhaps we should wait for the trial and possible conviction before making a judgement about her "need" to go to prison, about her being a "bad/evil person" or being "a bad seed" or even judge her level of sanity. Or do you have particular knowledge about her character, other than what you've read on the internet in the past few hours?

While the evidence to date looks pretty damning, it helps to remember we haven't heard the full story yet. I admit I have been guilty of guessing her intentions and actions based on what little we've heard, but I fully admit I don't truly know what happened and what her motivations/intentions were. As such, I want to try to retain an open mind. I would also guess that most of us know nothing beyond what the media has told us and what we've seen in the police documents.


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