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  Neil Armstrong wants hair back that he left on barbershop floor (Page 2)

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Author Topic:   Neil Armstrong wants hair back that he left on barbershop floor
collshubby
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posted 06-01-2005 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for collshubby   Click Here to Email collshubby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don’t think it is the hair or the money he is worried about. I think it is the betrayal. The barber turned down several offers by this guy, but unfortunately all too often money gets in the way of friendship.

eurospace
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posted 06-01-2005 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eurospace   Click Here to Email eurospace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think these hair collectors are in good company: the Catholic church has been collecting, selling and buying and exhibiting body parts of their Saints for centuries.

Churches are full of this kind of relics still today. Bones, fingers, skulls, you name it.

Why not exhibit Neil Armstrong's foot with which he stepped on the surface of the Moon in Space Chapel one day?

Food for thought ....

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Jürgen P Esders
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Astroaddies

James Brown
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posted 06-01-2005 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Brown   Click Here to Email James Brown     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Astro Bill:
By the way, the person who has the hair collection not only has a hair collection, he has a DNA collection.
Actually, DNA is only found in the hair's roots, so unless his barber pulled his hair out, there won't be any DNA.

James

nasamad
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posted 06-01-2005 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nasamad   Click Here to Email nasamad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't really want to get into the if's but's and wherefore's, but I really feel for the guy if he can't even get his hair cut without someone trying to make money from him!

It is hardly surprising he limits himself to posing for photo's and not signing.

Adam

gliderpilotuk
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posted 06-01-2005 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wehaveliftoff:
The article stated that the barber DID contact the buyer and the buyer refused to return it, at least he is an historic collector and not a silly eBayer, already owning a Napolean lock among other historical locks. Not defending the buyer but he is a legitimate collector of hair locks, not an eBay profiteer.
Let's not get too sympathetic with Reznikoff. He is a DEALER who HAPPENS to have (for some strange reason) a hair collection. We don't know how much hair was bought but I lay my money on the likelihood that small samples will be appearing for sale in the future.

I agree with ejectr - place respect for Armstrong's privacy above commercial ambition.

Ironically, Mr. Reznikoff is one of the PSA/DNA authenticators (with a scary photo on R&R's website) so maybe he has more success with hair than autographs.

Paul

James Brown
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posted 06-01-2005 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Brown   Click Here to Email James Brown     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Smoking Gun: One Small Snip Of Hair...

James

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-01-2005 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting link, Jimmy. So by the content of that letter, combined with the infromation told the Associated Press (presumeably by Sizemore), Todd Mueller is an "agent" for John Reznikoff.

At least one of these individuals has posted to collectSPACE in the past and I am fairly certain the other is well aware of this site. Perhaps one or both of these gentlemen would be so kind to respond to this thread.

gliderpilotuk
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posted 06-01-2005 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very clever reference in his lawyer's letter to the tax returns of buyer and seller to ensure they don't "accidentally" understate the sale proceeds <LOL>.

Paul

Wehaveliftoff
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posted 06-01-2005 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wehaveliftoff   Click Here to Email Wehaveliftoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IF $3000 is awarded back to Neil I hope his donation goes to the "First Flight Lunar Project" in Warren, Ohio, which is a work in progress about Neil's first airplane flight there at six years of age. It will take $400,000 to complete.

Rob Joyner
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posted 06-01-2005 08:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rob Joyner   Click Here to Email Rob Joyner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wonder if we'll see Armstrong with a pony tail in about half a year...

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posted 06-01-2005 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for earlyduke   Click Here to Email earlyduke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From a strictly legal standpoint, there are some considerations that haven't been mentioned.

Since ignorance of the law is not a recognized excuse for violating it, there is very likely liability in this case.

Also, as Mr. Armstrong's barber and Mr. Reznikoff (or his agent) worked together in violating the cited Ohio law, (if, in fact, they did) grounds for a conspiracy charge likely exist as well.

I have no idea how far Mr. Armstrong wants to pursue the matter, but I can certainly understand his undertaking the legal route; the man obviously feels he was violated and exploited, and whether this is a "silly" matter or not, the letter from his attorney is probably meant to act as a disincentive to others and serve notice that he won't tolerate such antics in the future.

BTW, earlier in this thread, "Wehaveliftoff" wrote: "Neil [Armstrong] is not, nor will he ever be, more than a fraction as popular, hair or otherwise, as Elvis". I strongly disagree. If the human race still exists 1000 years from now, people will know the name of the first human to step foot on another planetary body. Elvis will just be "Elvis who??"

Astro Bill
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posted 06-01-2005 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro Bill   Click Here to Email Astro Bill     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Earlyduke,

I understand why you stated that Neil Armstrong is more memorable that Elvis, you are a space enthusiast. That is why you post to this message board with other space enthusiasts. But ask as many people as you wish "Who is Neil Armstrong?" and "Who is Elvis?" You better be sitting down because you will be in for a shock.

Most people do not know the Mercury 7 astronauts, or the 12 astronauts who have landed on the Moon or the first person to orbit the Earth or the name of the first person who walked on the Moon. Try it tomorrow, unless you live at KSC or another NASA facility. EVERYONE knows Elvis, but very FEW remember what Neil Armstrong did.

While on the subject, what did Neil Armstrong do, specifically? If his claim to fame is that he was the first to set FOOT on the Moon, he was followed moments later by Buzz Aldrin. Like most great races in history, it was almost a photo finish.

I cannot agree that people will ever forget Elvis, but will remember Neil Armstrong. Who was the first person to climb Everest or the first to break the 4-minute mile? Neil Armstrong will have his place in history but he will be followed by many others who will surpass all of his achievements. But there will never be another Elvis. []

mikelarson
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posted 06-01-2005 09:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mikelarson   Click Here to Email mikelarson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Regardless of who prevails in the courts, I'm not sure anyone wins in the court of public opinion. It's sad that this type of story is national news in the first place.

It's unfortunate Neil Armstrong has to deal with this news story which I'm sure he's embarrassed to be a part of. I do applaud him for holding his ground and not letting it pass, but I've got to think after seeing the media attention the story has received he's wondering if it was worth it.

Most frustrating for collectors is that I tend to agree that this incident severely hurts any chance of Armstrong following in Young's footsteps and conducting an autograph signing. Just imagine if Armstrong did agree to a signing and Reznikoff or Mueller won the Novaspace auction to spend the day with Armstrong at their office...

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-01-2005 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Astro Bill:
But ask as many people as you wish "Who is Neil Armstrong?" and "Who is Elvis?" You better be sitting down because you will be in for a shock.
I would be willing to bet my bottom dollar that in a worldwide poll held of every single person living today, more people would know of Neil Armstrong then they do Elvis Presley.

To the generation who grew up with Elvis, he is the king. To those born after his era (my peers) he's an over-hyped musician with a good PR agent.

Whereas, Neil Armstrong is at the very least an answer on a history quiz we all had to take growing up.

Just as there is a Carl Sagan Station on Mars, its reasonable to expect that someday there will be an Armstrong pad or Aldrin complex. I doubt strongly that Elvis will be honored similarly.

A quick search of Google shows there are Armstrong Elementary, Middle and High Schools (Aldrin has an elementary and a junior high). Elvis (at least according to Google) has not been similarly remembered.

Elvis was manufactured to be a celebrity. Armstrong and Aldrin has celebrity thrust upon them. In the history mankind, its the people in the latter category who are truly remembered.

Astro Bill
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posted 06-01-2005 11:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro Bill   Click Here to Email Astro Bill     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert,

I am sorry to hear or see you say that because I do not agree with any of it. It would take too long to argue every point that you made. Some of your points have merit, but the school naming was a cheap shot. Elvis received many honors while he was alive and many (including a US stamp) after his death.

Also, your comment that Elvis was an "over-hyped musician with a good PR agent" is insulting to his memory. Elvis was an entertainer. He has millions of fans who will never forget him. This is not to say that Neil Armstrong is not memorable, but he is not Elvis. Neil Armstrong was an astronaut who did his job. He landed on the Moon WITH Buzz Aldin. It is only chance that he was the first to step on the Moon.

Elvis had talent. I am sorry that you do not recall him. Elvis was not just a "celebrity" as you stated, he was a phenomenon. He was not "manufactured" as you stated. He was one of the founders of rock & roll. He will never be duplicated, although many have tried.

Neil armstrong was one of many astronauts. It was only fate that made him famous. If the Apollo 1 fire had not happened, there is much speculation that Neil Armstrong may not have been first to step on the Moon.

I am 62. I remember the Apollo XI Moon Landing and the career of Elvis. Actually, we are comparing apples and oranges, but I am not the one who started this discussion of the relative merits of Neil Armstrong and Elvis Presley. Elvis had an enormous amount of talent and a commanding presence. I could continue, but my point has been made.

robsouth
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posted 06-01-2005 11:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for robsouth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This hair would not be a flown item for the simple reason that hair grows pretty fast, so any moon hair is long since gone.

There is a question of trust here, Armstrong should be able to trust his barber not to allow his hair to be taken and used for commercial purposes.

Rodina
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posted 06-01-2005 11:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not entirely sure Mr. Armstrong has a case. The definition of Persona doesn't seem to include things which are not inherently recognizable as being Mr. Armstrong and some silvery-black hair isn't that

Now, I haven't looked at the case law, which probably covers some of that, but it's not obvious to me that our barber -- however obnoxious his acts -- doesn't have a defense.

earlyduke
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posted 06-02-2005 12:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for earlyduke   Click Here to Email earlyduke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Astro Bill, read my post carefully. I said in 1000 years! If you think anyone will remember Elvis Presley 1000 years from now... well, let's just agree to disagree. If more people today might know Elvis better than Armstrong, and I concede that is possible, it's likely because at any given moment in time a popular figure will have more notoriety than a historic figure. Also, I'm not comparing Elvis and Armstrong as personalities. I'm comparing them only in terms of likely longevity of memorability. A thousand years is a very long time.

robsouth
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posted 06-02-2005 01:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for robsouth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Armstrong may well be remembered but 1000 years is a very long time.

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posted 06-02-2005 02:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kucharek   Click Here to Email kucharek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just wait until the first craze in need of money goes after some celebrity with scissors...

When Reznikoff now says, that "Neil Armstrong has always been one of my heroes", what he did is even more cynical. When he "knows" Neil Armstrong, he knew that Armstrong would be disgusted by such a thing.

nojnj
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posted 06-02-2005 07:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nojnj   Click Here to Email nojnj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hairs an update from a local news broadcast from Cincinnati. (Lebanon is only about 30 miles or so away) It was reported on Local channel 12 that the collector has agreed to donate the money to a charity.

------------------
Evan

reznikoff
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posted 06-02-2005 07:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for reznikoff   Click Here to Email reznikoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi guys! I know some of you think hair collecting is unusual, but I would ask if your mom has a lock of your baby hair? ...hair collecting as a memento predates autographs by about 2000 years! I hope to have a display at a museum some day. For the record I neither approached nor bought the hair from the Barber. I bought it from a dealer who contacted him. I also called Neil's lawyer and offered to match my initial $3000 payment by making a payment to "The hole in the Wall Gang" ( in his name)a camp for Terminal children here in CT. that is run by Paul Newman and that is charity I work closely with. For any with access I would purchase (fully documented of course, and for less$) any other astronauts or famous people. I just purchased on ebay this # 7323237242 French Kings, King Louis XVI and King Louis XVII his son, and Queen Marie Antoinette hair and am surprised that did not create more press than Neil. Happy collecting email me direct cause I don't get to log on here much

thanks
John

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John Reznikoff
President University Archives, div. of USC, Inc.

Apollo-Soyuz
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posted 06-02-2005 07:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Apollo-Soyuz   Click Here to Email Apollo-Soyuz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Washington Post which has been the news lately had an article in today's Style section about this.

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John Macco
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Space Unit
Shady Side, Md.

Scott
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posted 06-02-2005 08:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My hunch is that, as Rodina thinks, Armstrong doesn't have a strong case and that, as someone else suggested, this letter is mainly to dissuade others from trying something similar.

Scott
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posted 06-02-2005 08:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
I would be willing to bet my bottom dollar that in a worldwide poll held of every single person living today, more people would know of Neil Armstrong then they do Elvis Presley.
Robert my friend, I have some advice: Stay away from Vegas.

See Rob Sumowski's astute post from about a month ago where he mentioned sadly his personal experiences of how many people don't even know who Armstrong is. Mind you, this has nothing to do with him not being remembered for a thousands years. He will. But currently better known than Elvis? No.

quote:
To the generation who grew up with Elvis, he is the king. To those born after his era (my peers) he's an over-hyped musician with a good PR agent.
Well I'm as amazed as Astro Bill about this. Elvis, regardless of what you think of him, was a good man who literally raised himself up from a dirt floor to become an icon. He is considered to be one of the greatest singers who ever lived and brought happiness to billions of people.

What about that saying that there are only two things that people in every area of the world have heard of: "Coca-Cola and Elvis"?

quote:
Just as there is a Carl Sagan Station on Mars, its reasonable to expect that someday there will be an Armstrong pad or Aldrin complex. I doubt strongly that Elvis will be honored similarly.
My guess is there won't be a guitar named after Neil anytime soon, either. Don't see the relevance of that example, sorry.

Steve Procter
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posted 06-02-2005 09:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Procter   Click Here to Email Steve Procter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Scott, you are correct the Fender 'Armstrongcaster' just doesn't work!

Steve

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-02-2005 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Scott:
But currently better known than Elvis? No.
If the poll was limited to (ironically) the U.S., I would agree but I think worldwide you would find the demographics change. But perhaps you are right and Elvis is more popular on a person to person basis. Not that there is anyway to answer this one way or another.

But I agree that a census today wouldn't have much influence on the results in 1000 years.

ejectr
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posted 06-02-2005 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ejectr   Click Here to Email ejectr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How about the C.F. Martin Armstrong signature model? Oh yeah, forgot, he doesn't sign.

I never thought too much of Elvis having grown up during the British invasion.

That all changed when I found myself in Memphis with some time on my hands and went to Graceland.

As I stood in the "Awards and Trophy" room and looked both left and right as far as the eye could see,...literally thousands of awards from all over the world from the worlds' leaders and gold/platinum records, I realized that all this was accomplished by just one man.

I left that complex with a new appreciation for Elvis and what determination can accomplish.

thump
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posted 06-02-2005 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for thump   Click Here to Email thump     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Astro Bill:
Who was the first person to climb Everest or the first to break the 4-minute mile?
Sir Edmund Hillary and Roger Bannister And IMHO worldwide Neil will be known longer than Elvis, sorry...

Wehaveliftoff
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posted 06-02-2005 12:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wehaveliftoff   Click Here to Email Wehaveliftoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is a fact, more Americans think John Glenn walked on the moon then Neil Armstrong. (We know better.) Also a fact Elvis's Graceland is the Second most visited place in America, Very few visit Neil Armstrong's Ohio museum. Besides being the first to walk on the moon, Buzz Aldrin's push towards the further development of space exploration is a hundred times more influential than Neil's deeds. Buzz will be more fondly remembered than any apollo astronaut, far more than the guy that took a step a few minutes before he did. In 1000 years Elvis' footnote will be much longer than Neil's.

If the world is still intact then.

#204
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posted 06-02-2005 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for #204   Click Here to Email #204     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Astro Bill:
I cannot agree that people will ever forget Elvis, but will remember Neil Armstrong.
Bill, I don't know what you've been smoking but your statement re. Armstrong, is a little bent.

For the generations of people who were living at the time of the first moon landing, Armstrong will never be forgotten. If you are trying to say that many people who were born since the moon landing don't recognize the name, you are probably correct, but I wouldn't say VERY FEW remember him or his place in history.

As far as Elvis is concerned his fans have turned him into some kind of religious figure head, the Pope of rock n roll but personally I think The Beatles were far better, more creative, more connected to the world as a whole. Just my opinion, eh???

MrSpace86
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posted 06-02-2005 01:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrSpace86   Click Here to Email MrSpace86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
More people visit Graceland than the Armstrong museum, but how many people have seen the Apollo 11 command module and how many people visit it?

Maybe this whole hair thing is an Armstrong publicity stunt to get him back into the media and then promote a signing? jk.

-Rodrigo

Tod
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posted 06-02-2005 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tod   Click Here to Email Tod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Who built the pyramids? ELVIS!
Who built Stonehenge? ELVIS!"

Shoot, all Armstrong did was walk on the moon...

Astro Bill
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posted 06-02-2005 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro Bill   Click Here to Email Astro Bill     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thump:
Sir Edmund Hillary and Roger Bannister And IMHO worldwide Neil will be known longer than Elvis, sorry...
This was not a test. We know that some people know who these people are. But the majority of people I would guess would not know who Sir Edmond Hillary and Roger Bannister are.

Astro Bill
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posted 06-02-2005 06:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro Bill   Click Here to Email Astro Bill     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tod:
Shoot, all Armstrong did was walk on the moon...
Yes, ALL Neil Armstrong did is walk on the Moon. I agree. He was followed within minutes by Buzz Aldrin. In a just world, they BOTH would have stepped onto the Moon TOGETHER. The LM was not configured for that. They were both followed by 10 more moon walkers on later flights.

It is difficult to find an appropriate comparison, but I would suggest that Babe Ruth might be a "similar" situation. He set the home run record of 60 in 1927. This record resulted from his own effort and ability, although he was part of a team. It was not until 1961 that Roger Maris broke the record with 61 home runs. This was 34 years later, not several minutes as in Armstrong - Aldrin on the Moon.

What if another NY Yankee also hit 60 home runs in 1927 and they were followed by many others who hit 60? Would that diminish Babe Ruth's record. I think that it would. They would share the record for 1927.

Armstrong WAS first, but it was NASA and the US that accomplished the first moon landing. Armstrong was their means to this end. Buzz aldrin should justly share the glory of being First on the Moon, no matter who was first out the door of the LM.

spaceman1953
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posted 06-02-2005 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaceman1953   Click Here to Email spaceman1953     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One of my local newscasts last night carried the Armstrong hair story.....
"Armstrong, you may remember, was the first man to walk on the moon." is a paraphrase of what they said at the end of the piece.

Gene Bella
South Bend

Matt T
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posted 06-02-2005 06:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Matt T   Click Here to Email Matt T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let's not confuse historical record with fact.

Neither Christopher Columbus nor Amerigo Vespucci were particularly important in the history of America, so why is the country now named after one and claimed to have been discovered by the other?

1000 years from now we'll be lucky if they think that the first man on the moon was called Elvis Armstrong

Cheers,
Matt

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www.spaceracemuseum.com

Astro Bill
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posted 06-02-2005 11:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro Bill   Click Here to Email Astro Bill     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt T:
1000 years from now we'll be lucky if they think that the first man on the moon was called Elvis Armstrong
You are right. One thousand years is not within our ability to comprehend. I would be more concerned with what the average person on the street thinks about Neil Armstrong. We already know what they think of Elvis Presley and Babe Ruth.

fabfivefreddy
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posted 06-02-2005 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fabfivefreddy   Click Here to Email fabfivefreddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Imagine if someone took your hair sample and had the DNA "decoded".

Next they published a book of people and their DNA with a relative risk correlation for things like alcoholism, sexual deviance, bipolar mood disorder, baldness, impotence, etc., etc.

The DNA is going to be a "hot seller" when the human genome project is completed.

There is a lot more to this than "just some hair".

Also, the root of the hair is better currently for DNA analysis. But that does not mean that you can't ever get it through other future methods. This area of science will just get better.

Imagine knowing that a President or leader had a disorder that may have caused a fateful decision. It would be an amazing historical discovery (or none of our business?)

Tahir

kucharek
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posted 06-03-2005 04:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kucharek   Click Here to Email kucharek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fabfivefreddy:
Imagine if someone took your hair sample and had the DNA "decoded".
Don't know the laws in the US, but here in Germany your DNA is your private data and we have pretty strict laws about the protection of data privacy. No one is allowed to take or even use DNA of you without your consent.


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