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  Autographica 20, London, UK, March 2014 (Page 5)

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Author Topic:   Autographica 20, London, UK, March 2014
Brian Bayley
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posted 03-26-2014 06:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brian Bayley     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I seem to have caused a stink by bringing this story up.

Daniel wasn't expecting a dedication for free, he is not that naive. He expected to pay a fee and people behind him would, I'm sure have understood that the book had already been signed, and paid for previously. Daniel didn't argue or cause a fuss, he accepted the decision and gracefully declined. I have dealt with him before and he is a very polite young man.

I doubt if Buzz would have had a request like this all weekend to compare with so I don't think it would have hurt to charge maybe £30-50.

I agree entirely with gliderpilotuk statement. Buzz was there purely for transactional reasons and not because he loves his public, however it is wonderful to meet such an important historical figure and we are all lucky in that respect. But £185 for 2 words which cheapen the item, come on!

If it was the assistant's decision or Buzz's I think it was rather greedy.

JasonIUP
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posted 03-26-2014 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JasonIUP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree that this is entirely transactional. I don't look forward to meeting people like Buzz. I really don't. I want my stuff signed a certain way at the pre-set fee (and not more!) and that's it.

David Bryant
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posted 03-26-2014 08:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Bryant   Click Here to Email David Bryant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How would Buzz - or anyone else - know whether the lad had bought the book from him at a signing? And if he did, why didn't he get it dedicated at the time? Like most of the posters, I don't know the facts about the book's origin and neither did Dr Aldrin.

Yes: it was a financially-motivated response, but so what? Autographica is a commercial enterprise and the guests are there to make money. As I said, I think the kid was, at best, naïve...

Paul23
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posted 03-26-2014 08:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul23   Click Here to Email Paul23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can't help but feel that this one incident, where it appears the outcome was accepted by the person involved, seems to be souring some people's perceptions of what was an excellent and enjoyable weekend with some fascinating space guests.

Personally I think it is more interesting to see what Dave's comments to robert_l regarding the future, and better shows for more expense will look like.

Apollo14LMP
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posted 03-26-2014 10:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Apollo14LMP   Click Here to Email Apollo14LMP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had a good experience with Buzz in Dublin 2004...

I won't be going to Autographica. So expensive, even for a photo, had better experiences elsewhere. Just my take.

AstroAutos
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posted 03-26-2014 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AstroAutos   Click Here to Email AstroAutos     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just now getting back down to Earth after a wonderful weekend at Autographica.

Dave Phillips and the team put on a fantastic show this year and myself and girlfriend Demi were very impressed.

The highlight of the weekend guest-wise for us was Greg Johnson. We spent a lot of time with him both at and after the Friday drinks reception and he is a fantastic guy. So easy to speak with on a whole range of topics and it was great to have the chance to go for a few drinks with a two-time shuttle pilot. His lecture on Saturday morning didn't disappoint - the combination of video, Greg explaining things and the Q&A made it an excellent talk and probably the best I have attended at Autographica. I wish him well in his very important work with CASIS.

Alan Bean was also a fantastic guest. We had the privilege of sitting with Alan and Greg Johnson on the Sunday evening in the bar as they compared flying stories for well over an hour. That was probably the highlight of my weekend. Alan's lecture on Saturday was also excellent and he deservedly received a standing ovation at the end.

Bruce McCandless was also a great guest and one I'd love to see back. I had heard his lecture on the Saturday was quite technical, and while on Sunday it was quite similar he did make it very interesting. Was intriguing to hear him talking about his 1st flight of the MMU - what an incredible experience that must have been. I wasn't aware of his quote when he first used the MMU - 'That may have been one small step for Neil, but it's a heck of a big leap for me.' I had thought Pete Conrad had been the only one to say that on becoming the 3rd man to walk on the Moon, but turns out McCandless said it in space also.

I once again decided to pass on Aldrin's autograph due to the fee but I was glad to have the option and many people went for it - good for them, they know they got the real deal! I managed to snap up a framed photo of the visor shot with a cut Aldrin signature for just £65 from one of the dealers which I thought was pretty good. Buzz looked very wide-eyed and distant this weekend but let's put it down to jet-lag. I'm just glad I got to shake his hand again and say thank you to his helpers Christina and Rob for organizing our interview in October 2012.

We sadly never got the chance to meet Hoot or Rhea properly and so would love to see them both return as guests in the future.

It was fantastic to meet up with some cS friends again (and to meet some for the first time). Autographica is as much about meeting up with you guys as meeting the astronauts in my opinion. You all know who you are and here's to supporting many more Autographica events in the future.

Assuming the September show line-up includes some great astronaut guests (which I know it will) my girlfriend and I will be in Birmingham in September. Looking forward to it already!

AstroAutos
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posted 03-26-2014 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AstroAutos   Click Here to Email AstroAutos     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Our table on Sunday evening in the bar heard some incredible stories from Greg Johnson and Alan Bean over a few pints of Guinness!:

Greg Johnson - the highlight of our weekend:

The shuttle trio; Hoot, Rhea and Box:

Howard and David - two very funny guys. I'm more of a practical jokes kinda guy!:

AstroAutos
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posted 03-26-2014 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AstroAutos   Click Here to Email AstroAutos     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Forgot to mention the SR-71 pilots in my previous post - Buz Carpenter and Gil Bertelson were fantastic guests with amazing stories to tell. Would love to see them return to a future show and they told me of their own desire to do so.

Me with Gil Bertelson (SR-71 Blackbird pilot):

My girlfriend and I with Buz Carpenter (SR-71 Blackbird pilot):

Me with Bruce McCandless:

JasonB
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posted 03-26-2014 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JasonB   Click Here to Email JasonB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I must say that reading the ridiculous argument about Buzz reminds me that if that's a window into what Buzz has to put up with it's astounding anyone would want to put up with some people. Let alone an 84 year old former astronaut.

It seems that some people on here look specifically for something to complain about when it comes to Aldrin because they seem to hate him. I mean seriously — one gut wants special treatment, doesn't get it from Aldrin's ASSISTANT and some people show outrage? Get over yourselves! If you want the job of pompous jerk yelling "Oh look he did something wrong" then apply for it or at least wait until he actually does something wrong. The Aldrin hating or "he should've done this" on here gets real old.

JasonB
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posted 03-26-2014 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JasonB   Click Here to Email JasonB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great photos AstroAutos. I've found that I enjoy my photos with the astronauts more than the autographs I get when I meet them.

rgarner
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posted 03-26-2014 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also had a fantastic time, although I was very ill most of the weekend which meant I couldn't attend the Friday drinks reception and even had to leave straight after the Gala! Looks like I missed a good time in the bar!

BUT even with all of that going on, I had a fantastic time. Greg Johnson had to put up with 20 minutes of my questions during the gala (poor guy!) and Alan Bean inscribed my autograph with a reference to an email I sent him some weeks before - he remembered! What a guy.

As for Buzz... when I'm 84 and have travelled the world a dozen times over, answered the same questions for the past 40 years AND travelled to the moon, you can bet I won't be even half as welcoming as Buzz is! You're there to meet him, everything else is just a bonus - one that won't be around forever. Deal with it.

Paul23
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posted 03-26-2014 02:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul23   Click Here to Email Paul23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great pictures Shane, shows how observant I am that I think I was actually sitting next to you and your good lady in the Alan Bean talk on Saturday and never realised!

Buel
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posted 03-26-2014 05:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buel   Click Here to Email Buel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JasonB:
I must say that reading the ridiculous argument about Buzz... The Aldrin hating or "he should've done this" on here gets real old.
Utterly brilliant!

(Shane — Top quality pics!!!)

JasonB
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posted 03-26-2014 10:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JasonB   Click Here to Email JasonB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was in a similar spot at last year's ASF show. I was getting someone else's multi-signed poster signed for them and while it was already signed by Cernan, Mitchell and Worden he wanted further inscriptions added. I said it'd probably cost the autograph price anyway and he was fine with that.

Cernan remembered me from earlier buying three signatures from him and said no charge. His assistant said to buy a raffle ticket (I did). I was prepared to pay his fee so I was really caught off guard by their kindness and told Cernan I'll come back to ASF every year he's there.

Al Worden also told me no charge despite me not having bought an autograph. I also got a photo with him and he couldn't have been nicer.

Edgar Mitchell and his assistant were confused on what to charge (it is a weird request) til his assistant said "how bout $150?" which was fine.

My point is if you want something from them and expect to pay the price you won't be disappointed. You may sometimes even get astonished by how nice those guys really are — including Aldrin.

Buel
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posted 03-27-2014 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buel   Click Here to Email Buel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Bayley:
If it was the assistant's decision or Buzz's I think it was rather greedy.
Brian, the reasons why Buzz/his assistant/both gave the price of £185 have been clearly explained - that Daniel would, essentially, have got a £185 signature for approximately £50 (£20 cost of book plus £30 for two words).

As has been mentioned, if Buzz had done that for Daniel then he would have been expected to do it for everyone thereafter.

This is very clear and, although perhaps not in the best spirit, is understandable.

A lesson learned, perhaps.

JasonIUP
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posted 03-27-2014 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JasonIUP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I can explain where the Aldrin pricing comes from.

Now, if you present him with something he already signed and want an inscription (usually a mission or date and not someone's name), you're charged the same fee that the autograph alone would cost on that item. For example, if you have a signed photo that you bring to him and want "Apollo 11", "To Bill", etc., the fee is £350 ($550 US).

I'm not saying this price structure is fair in my view, but I think this is why the fee was applied rather than a free personalization or a mission/inscription fee.

Buel
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posted 03-28-2014 03:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buel   Click Here to Email Buel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm afraid that isn't correct.

Daniel wanted a book that had been signed by Buzz at a book signing (where Buzz had signed for free if you bought the book) to be personalised. Because the book had been signed for free, the charge was £185.

I had a book that was previously signed and personalised to me (the last time Buzz was at Autographica, I paid the full price, around £250ish?) and I asked how much I would be charged for a few extra words. The reply? £15 per word.

The reasoning behind this was that it was clear that I had paid the full price previously (apart from the obvious personalisation, I suspect that there are other ways they can tell, such as where the signature is on the page, for example).

This all seems quite clear so, hopefully, this should be the end of the debate regarding whether it was 'right' or 'wrong'. Next scene...

As regards to your opinion on the man, everybody is entitled to their own but I do feel that Buzz is somewhat of an easy target.

David C
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posted 03-28-2014 05:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's curious to me how we were all desperate for Neil's autograph and I doubt we'd have blinked at whatever price he'd chosen.

Or how about Bill Anders?

Buzz provides his for a fee and a lot of us aren't entirely happy. Buzz just rubs people up the wrong way and going by the accounts of his former colleagues, he's being doing it for a long time. It's a shame, and age is no excuse but that's how he is, and it's not going to change. And hey, you can say you've met the real Buzz not some two faced smile for the crowds version.

Better to focus on those items you've got from him that others wouldn't provide.

Just sayin'.

Tykeanaut
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posted 03-28-2014 06:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tykeanaut   Click Here to Email Tykeanaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We all have good and bad days. But if you turn up to make money you should be gracious with your customers whoever you are.

YankeeClipper
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posted 03-28-2014 08:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YankeeClipper   Click Here to Email YankeeClipper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm always gently bemused by the focus and emphasis on Neil and Buzz. Each lunar landing crew was, in a sense, "first" to their respective destination sites. I've never particularly differentiated between any of the moonwalkers based on chronology. They all recognise that they were part of something much, much larger than they themselves as individuals. For me, Lindbergh was correct when he indicated that Apollo 8 was really the tip of the spear and high point of "firsts". Neil and many within NASA concurred with this view.

That said, I've always approached Buzz ready to pay full price for whatever, and if some slack is cut for me then that is a huge bonus. Most of my experiences with him have been very positive. Moonwalkers may be global icons/stars but they are very much human too and have off days like everyone. Unfortunately, fame is something impossible to turn off and escape from. Attend enough shows and you see that experiences with the same astronauts can vary from day-to-day and show-to-show. Unforunately, because of price most people get only one experience with Buzz and base everything off that one encounter. Talk about pressure to perform!

Tykeanaut
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posted 03-28-2014 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tykeanaut   Click Here to Email Tykeanaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Buzz has a choice, as do we. If he doesn't want to "perform" then don't turn up. If you don't want to pay the price, then you don't have to. Surely it's as simple as that?

rgarner
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posted 03-28-2014 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is as simple as that.

Buel
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posted 03-28-2014 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buel   Click Here to Email Buel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tykeanaut:
We all have good and bad days. But if you turn up to make money you should be gracious with your customers whoever you are.
Again, I will just point out that it was his assistant who dealt with Daniel. I hope this is crystal clear to all. For what it's worth (which is very little), every time I have paid a them a visit, both he and his assistant have been top notch. I knew what the asking price was... and paid it.

Buel
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posted 03-28-2014 10:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buel   Click Here to Email Buel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rgarner:
It is as simple as that.
It was that simple. I was there, Buzz's assistant (please see last post) was firm, fair and polite.

Tykeanaut
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posted 03-28-2014 11:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tykeanaut   Click Here to Email Tykeanaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Apologies, my comments were a generalisation as I believe this has been a problem in the past?

Paul23
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posted 03-28-2014 11:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul23   Click Here to Email Paul23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm starting to wish I could turn back time and be there when this original question came up so I could pay the £185 on behalf of the young man so this whole debate could have been avoided!

JasonB
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posted 03-28-2014 11:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JasonB   Click Here to Email JasonB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd also like to point out that no one is there to "perform". He's not a monkey. Just because he or his assistant don't do whatever anyone wants all the time doesn't make them jerks. It does though imply that some people simply expect him to do whatever they want and that seems ridiculous. If you're not going to simply enjoy meeting the guy and accept the posted prices then don't go and don't complain. At some point you start to wonder if people enjoy hating Buzz more than they like space exploration and that says more about you than Buzz.

And I must say when I met him he perfectly nice, patient with people and accommodating. He wasn't the most out going guy there but so what. He also was the only guy who ran it like a sports show but he's also a hundred times more well known than anyone else there so you have to expect that.

Brian Bayley
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posted 03-28-2014 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brian Bayley     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nobody hates Buzz.

Nobody complained at the time.

Nobody expected anything for free.

It's only become a problem HERE where certain people seem to want the last word.

I apologize for bringing this MINOR incident up which I did purely out of interest and not to create mischief.

Buzz can charge what he likes, people don't have to pay and we can all have an opinion. It is always an honour to meet or even to sneak a glance at him going about his business.

Shall we call it a day on this now, overdone topic and reflect on what was a great event with some extraordinary guests?

YankeeClipper
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posted 03-28-2014 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YankeeClipper   Click Here to Email YankeeClipper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JasonB:
I'd also like to point out that no one is there to "perform".
(The following is intended to be a general observation.)

NASA astronauts attending public functions "in the barrel" very much have their "meet-and-greet" game-faces on.

It's arguable that, as private citizens, Apollo astronauts no longer carry that burden. Where people may get confused is when they see Alan Bean in a NASA flight jacket deliver two excellent motivational style lectures, or listen to the great double act that is Hoot Gibson and Rhea Seddon. Nobody who heard their lectures over the weekend would argue that they were doing anything other than performing.

If people just want an autograph, they could bid online at any of the upcoming auctions. People come seeking an interaction too, an engagement, a performance of sorts especially with their kids. Engaging pleasantly with 100 strangers in a row may become really tedious toward the end, even for the most extrovert and gregarious of astronauts or former astronauts.

Buel
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posted 03-28-2014 12:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buel   Click Here to Email Buel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Bayley:
Shall we call it a day on this now, overdone topic and reflect on what was a great event with some extraordinary guests?

This, I think they say, is the final word.

Buel
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posted 03-28-2014 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buel   Click Here to Email Buel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So... to change the subject: I thought the lectures were all superb. However, as I said to Shane on Sunday, Bruce McCandless doesn't do 'Dumbing down'. What a man!

Robert Pearlman
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posted 03-28-2014 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It was good to see McCandless in Shane's photo and hear he was (apparently) enjoying his time at the show. His wife of 53 years passed away in January.

Buel
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posted 03-28-2014 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buel   Click Here to Email Buel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
His wife of 53 years passed away in January.
That is very sad to hear. He didn't have to come to Autographica given those circumstances... but we sure are glad that he did. Also excellent to hear that he enjoyed himself.

rgarner
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posted 03-28-2014 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wasn't aware of that, I'm not sure I could have handled it so soon. A gentleman and scholar if I've ever seen one.

Paul23
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posted 03-29-2014 08:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul23   Click Here to Email Paul23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's very sad to hear, speaks volumes that he still made the journey over.

UKRuss
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posted 03-29-2014 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for UKRuss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On Sunday afternoon, I was talking to Robert Davi when Buzz walked in to chat to David Prowse. Buzz and David stood and posed for a barrage of photographs, then Buzz sat and put on David's Darth Vader mask!

It was a really cool moment and despite looking a little dazed Buzz was very generous with his time posing for photos.

Paul23
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posted 03-30-2014 05:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul23   Click Here to Email Paul23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's one of the things I like about Autographica, the mixture of guests means you get to see some combinations of people you might not normally get to see.

I remember a few years ago seeing a group of WW2 RAF bomber pilots going over to speak to Tom Stafford, I only wish I could have earwigged on their conversation!

Buel
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posted 03-31-2014 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buel   Click Here to Email Buel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mark England:
My wife was with me and she is a massive fan of him.
Apologies Mark. I was about to email you the pic but I see you have not made your email address public. If you email me then I shall send you the pic.

Mark England
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posted 03-31-2014 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark England   Click Here to Email Mark England     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Buel, just sent you an email.

Keith Barber
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posted 04-16-2014 09:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keith Barber   Click Here to Email Keith Barber     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know the dealer who was selling Patrick Moore's autographed Moon map at the show please?


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