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  Heritage October 2008 space auction (Page 2)

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Author Topic:   Heritage October 2008 space auction
gliderpilotuk
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Posts: 3043
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-08-2008 06:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spaced out:
Many of the foreign and state flown flags were bargains: e.g. an Apollo 13 flown Italian flag at $1553.50 (with Lovell and Swigert sigs). If you had a piece of paper with the same signatures it would probably fetch $550.
That's what I thought! Compared to the Ap13 plug lucite at $1800 it was a deal.

The flags were good deals compared to some of the flown documentation. I just hope that these historical documents don't get broken up for resale.

The PPK's went for less than I expected and I'm kicking myself for not bidding on the Ap8 PPK at $5500. The Ap13 one went for $7k.

Hard to understand why the Ap13 flown patch 41085 didn't sell but the flown and more nicely signed beta-cloth went for "only" $2400 + premium.

HA Live bidding worked very well - although I struggled even with an 8Mb line even to get constant audio, let alone video.

Paul

freshspot
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Posts: 272
From: Lexington, MA, USA
Registered: Dec 2005

posted 10-08-2008 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for freshspot   Click Here to Email freshspot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will definitely be keeping my checklist in its complete form - 140 pages exactly as flown. No scissors. No dealing. No destruction.

I hope others do the same.

Dave Scott (the other one)

garymilgrom
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Posts: 1571
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 10-08-2008 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garymilgrom   Click Here to Email garymilgrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was lucky enough to get Mitchell's flown Canadian flag. I liked the AP13 one too but the bidding went beyond my budget.

I don't understand why the documents went for so much unless the buyers are going to disassemble them for resale. If so that's a shame. When a bunch of paper goes for more than a piece of the machine that actually landed on the moon (Cernan's LEM arm rest) I don't understand what's going on. I would have paid 50K for that arm rest if I could afford it.

Thanks to Steve Smith on this board for pointing me to the Canadian flags.

Aztecdoug
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Posts: 1330
From: Huntington Beach
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 10-08-2008 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aztecdoug   Click Here to Email Aztecdoug     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
41081: Apollo 8 Flown Unopened Bottle of Coronet Brandy from the Personal Collection of Mission Command Module Pilot James Lovell - $17,925
Was this the bottle which was on display at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry?

------------------
Kind Regards

Douglas Henry

Enjoy yourself and have fun.... it is only a hobby!
http://home.earthlink.net/~aztecdoug/

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 27328
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-08-2008 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by garymilgrom:
I don't understand why the documents went for so much unless the buyers are going to disassemble them for resale.
I have moved the responses to Gary's question that involved the current economic situation to the thread: Is the current financial market climate affecting your space budget?

...as the factors involved apply to more than just Heritage. If there were reasons why collectors bid on the checklists vs. hardware from a non-economic viewpoint, they can continue to be posted to this thread.

driftingtotheright
unregistered
posted 10-08-2008 07:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The PPK's went for less than I expected and I'm kicking myself for not bidding on the Ap8 PPK at $5500.

Paul, it was my surprise & delight to get that PPK at such a price. A8 was such a memorable, stunning accomplishment of spaceflight!

Jerry

gliderpilotuk
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Posts: 3043
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-09-2008 02:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well done Jerry! Glad it went to a serious collector and not just a financier with deep pockets.

Paul

spaceflori
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Posts: 1376
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000

posted 10-09-2008 03:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaceflori   Click Here to Email spaceflori     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
If there were reasons why collectors bid on the checklists vs. hardware from a non-economic viewpoint, they can continue to be posted to this thread.
Books and documents historically always commanded higher prices than artifacts - because it's something to study, to read and to learn from and - slam me or not - not to put into a museum behind thick glass where nobody could study or see it. I strongly stay behind my decision to make the A17 checklists public and available for everyone incl. a complete scan of the whole book (as opposed to Aldrin, Cernan, Haise, Conrad who as far as I know didn't scan or keep a full copy of their checklists/maps they sold split up individually through the years).

An artifact may be appealing more to us collectors, of course, but I assume Heritage clients also include book and other document collectors, so there's simply a bigger competition.

A valuable space stamp is not only interesting for us space collectors, but also for other stamp collectors that only collect countries e.G.

My 2 cents... as always this may only be a part of the reason for the generally higher prices.

Florian

------------------
Flown artifacts, autographs and more !
www.spaceflori.com

lunareagle
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Posts: 377
From: Michigan
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-09-2008 04:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunareagle   Click Here to Email lunareagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All of the unsold items are still available for outright purchase at the reserve prices plus the buyers fee for the next few days. There are still quite a few great items.

stsmithva
Member

Posts: 1319
From: Centreville, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 10-09-2008 05:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for stsmithva   Click Here to Email stsmithva     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was outbid by just a tiny bit on the flown Apollo 13 Japanese flag. I was quite disappointed since that item combines two of my greatest interests- I got to go to Japan for a month a couple of years ago to study their schools and other aspects of their culture, and I want to return again and again. However, thanks to cS I found out that the winner is not only a longtime collector and nice guy, but someone who because of business had/got to move to Japan with his family and is there now. So if someone else was going to get it, I'm glad it was him!

I thought it was funny that I had thought I might sneak in and get a bargain on the LM manual that Aldrin and Haise worked with in training. My pre-auction bid of something like $700 met the reserve, and I was prepared to raise that bid during the auction. Then... oh, um... whoa... it went for over $11,000. Never mind!

Steve

gliderpilotuk
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Posts: 3043
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-09-2008 09:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good case in point, Steve. $11k for an unflown manual... whodathunkit!

You could almost have had the Ap8 flown flashlight AND PPK for that.

Paul

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 10-09-2008 09:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm wondering to myself who won the Apollo 13 flown Union Jack. I can't help feel it must be a cS member, and I have my suspicions (a certain scatological username springs to mind).

atpowell
Member

Posts: 43
From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 10-09-2008 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for atpowell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With everyone sharing, I thought I’d weigh in here too. I’ve been collecting small artifacts over the years (kapton, piece of A13 netting, etc) but have always wanted a "significant" artifact. I won two items. A13 piece of PLSS backpack from Cdr. Lovell. I thought this was a really neat piece – just thinking of him wistfully looking at his “lost moon”, and taking the time to cut off a piece of equipment that would have served him on moon’s surface as a memento. I love the ‘stories’ behind artifacts and think this must have a very interesting one behind it. I’m hoping to ask Cdr. Lovell about it at the ASF event next month.

The other item I won was the A16 restraint strap from Gen. Duke – I’ve always wanted a piece of LM Hardware (and this went to the surface and is stained with dust!!). I do continue to be surprised that the manuals and even autographs (e.g. Armstrong) continue to command such higher prices than many flown artifacts/hardware. But as previous posts have cited, everyone has their passion. Spent quite a bit more than I had planned, but I thought both were fair deals, and especially coming directly from my boyhood heroes, these will be cherished by a family who really loves the space program, and the heroes of a byegone era...

- Albrecht

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 10-09-2008 10:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The PLSS piece was a great buy - something that should have gone onto the lunar surface but didn't quite make it. The strap is great too of course.

But just think - instead of those unique items carried to the moon you could have bought that trimmed personalized Armstrong WSS (for just 50% more than you paid for the moondust stained strap)! Maybe it's not too late to change your mind?

4allmankind
Member

Posts: 715
From: NJ
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 10-09-2008 12:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 4allmankind   Click Here to Email 4allmankind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stsmithva:
However, thanks to cS I found out that the winner is not only a longtime collector and nice guy, but someone who because of business had/got to move to Japan with his family and is there now. So if someone else was going to get it, I'm glad it was him!
Steve, that is a great way to look at losing an item at auction - especially losing by a small margin as you say. I used to get so upset when I got outbid on items in the past, but now I look at it with your view. Clearly someone out there in the hobby wanted it more than I did, and then they deserved ito win it more than I did.

But for my point - did you see the Japanese flag from A14 available now? A nice deal for sure.

Jay

spaced out
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Posts: 2597
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 10-09-2008 12:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you're the second bidder on an item you always lose it by a small margin, but that doesn't mean that you could have won it for that amount more.

If you'd bid again it's highly likely that the other bidder would have bid again, and so on, and so on. It only takes two bidders to push an item up by several thousand dollars.

mikelarson
Member

Posts: 293
From: Port Washington, NY
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 10-09-2008 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mikelarson   Click Here to Email mikelarson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Steven,

Sorry to outbid you on that A13 flown Japanese flag! If it makes you feel any better, my max. bid was about $500 higher than what it sold for. So thanks for not bidding it up any further!!!

I'm seriously thinking about picking up the A14 Japanese flag too, the one that is still for sale with the buy it now price. Might think about it for a few days and see what happens!

Take care,

Mike Larson

JasonIUP
Member

Posts: 161
From: PA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 10-09-2008 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JasonIUP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can't see who authenticated for Heritage, but it appears that it wasn't Spence or PSA. It's good to see auctions move away from using those authenticators. I wonder how many real items in the recent auction would have been "knocked down" if Spence or PSA were doing the authentication.

mjanovec
Member

Posts: 3593
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 10-09-2008 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JasonIUP:
I can't see who authenticated for Heritage, but it appears that it wasn't Spence or PSA.

Earlier in this thread, Scott Cornish identified that Heritage utilized his services for autograph authentication.

4allmankind
Member

Posts: 715
From: NJ
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 10-10-2008 11:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 4allmankind   Click Here to Email 4allmankind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Howard, out of curiosity, as items get sold through the post-auction list of unsold items, does the total realized sale number increase?

Thanks, Jay

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 27328
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-16-2008 01:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Heritage Auction Galleries release:
Moon Landing Flight Plans, Astronaut Artifacts Bring Record Prices at Heritage

Record prices realized on rare Apollo Program space flown memorabilia Dallas Auction

There's a famous saying among space buffs that if you took all personal items and mission-used materials that went with the Apollo astronauts to the moon and then came back to earth - excluding moon rocks - then the total contents would just about fill a large suitcase. Three times Heritage has been fortunate to visit that mythical Samsonite, and each time the lots, and the prices, continue to amaze collectors of Space and to set auction pricing records.

On Oct. 7, at its downtown Dallas headquarters, Heritage held its Space Exploration Auction for a rapt in-person audience and an engaged buying public bidding over the phone and via Heritage Live!, the gallery's online, real time bidding service. When the rocket fuel had cleared the showroom and the Ethernet lines the total sales of the auction exceeded $826,000, a remarkable amount considering the finite amount of lots available and against the $713,000 pre-auction high total estimate.

"Many of the consignments in this sale were received directly from the Apollo astronauts themselves," said Howard Weinberger, Senior Space Consultant for Heritage. "Demand for Apollo 8 and 13 memorabilia is very high, and the availability of it very low. Heritage feels extremely fortunate to not only be able to auction these items, but also to get them straight from the source."

What really shone in the sale were items from the Apollo Space Program, in specific Apollo 8, 13, 14 and 17, which saw fierce bidding and unexpected prices. Just as human kind didn't know what to expect when it took those first steps into outer space, Heritage continues to help a rare and important market define itself with its Space Exploration auctions and the attendant prices. In many cases, excited bidders pushed the prices of space flown memorabilia to three and four times its pre-sale estimate. The prices realized not only help to establish the true market value of such important memorabilia, but also places Heritage squarely atop the space memorabilia market and shows the continuing strength of Heritage's collectibles business in the face of an uncertain world economic climate.

Many items in the sale were as hot as they've been since their first re-entry into the earth's atmosphere, including the Apollo 17 Command Module Flown Flight Plans, Volumes I and II, which realized an astounding $35,850 against a pre-auction estimate of $7,500-$10,000. The Apollo 8 Flown Update Book, signed by Mission Command Module Pilot James Lovell, garnered another interstellar gavel price with a final bid of $33,460 against its pre-auction estimate of $7,500-$10,000. Another important piece of Apollo 17 memorabilia that created a significant buzz was the Lunar Module Flown Lunar Rover Malfunction Procedures Checklist Card, with smudges of lunar dust on it, and signed by Mission Commander Gene Cernan; it brought $28,860 against a pre-auction estimate of $7,500-$10,000.

Of particular interest to space buffs were the very strong prices realized for signed photos by Neil Armstrong, the first human being to set foot on the moon. Two different photos, both signed, realized higher prices than have ever been recorded before for the famous space explorer's autograph. An Armstrong color spacesuit photo, inscribed, sold for $7,170 against and pre-auction estimate of $800-$1200, while another Armstrong color spacesuit photo, not inscribed, realized at $8,365 against a pre-auction estimate of $1800-$2500. Both prices are at-auction records for signed 8x10 Armstrong photos. All prices quoted include a 19.5% Buyer's Premium.

Several items in the sale were sold to benefit the Astronaut Scholarship Foundation, and featured special dinners, trips and other family-focused activities with different American astronauts. The highlight of this special section of the sale was the Apollo 14 Lunar Module Flown Portable Utility Light as Presented by Mission Commander Alan Shepard to Support Crew Member William Pogue. This light was flown to the surface of the moon as part of the Apollo 14 Lunar Module Antares that spent more than 33 hours in the lunar highlands of Fra Mauro, on Feb. 5-6, 1971. It realized $20,315.

Following on the success of this sale, and the increasing demand for such rarified material, Heritage is already moving its plans for its May Space Exploration Auction plans onto the launch pad. The auction, coming as it will in the year that marks the 40th anniversary of human kind's first step on the moon, is expected to garner just as much interest and as many record prices - if not more - than the previous three, and a tremendous amount of national and international interest.

lunareagle
Member

Posts: 377
From: Michigan
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-16-2008 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunareagle   Click Here to Email lunareagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 4allmankind:
Howard, out of curiosity, as items get sold through the post-auction list of unsold items, does the total realized sale number increase?
Jay - The "prices realized" available on the Heritage site should continue to reflect sale totals as items are sold.

lunareagle
Member

Posts: 377
From: Michigan
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-17-2008 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunareagle   Click Here to Email lunareagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is the final weekend that items will be posted and available for purchase on the Heritage site. Items will be taken down on Tuesday, October 21. There are still quite a number of incredible items, including many flown and lunar surface items, as well as a few very inexpensive ones.

The items are being offered at the auction reserve prices plus the buyers fee. However, you are also able to submit an offer and might possibly get an item for less. A number of collectors have submitted offers.

mikelarson
Member

Posts: 293
From: Port Washington, NY
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 10-18-2008 04:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mikelarson   Click Here to Email mikelarson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I sent a note to Heritage about their lowest price for the A14 flown Japanese flag and never got a response. Been waiting for over a week.

Mike

capoetc
Member

Posts: 1705
From: Newnan GA (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 10-18-2008 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mikelarson:
I sent a note to Heritage about their lowest price for the A14 flown Japanese flag and never got a response.
I thought the reserve price was the lowest price?

------------------
John Capobianco
Camden DE

mikelarson
Member

Posts: 293
From: Port Washington, NY
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 10-19-2008 04:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mikelarson   Click Here to Email mikelarson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They have a "make offer" feature built into the buy it now items that basically gives you a slight discount off the BIN price. Since the item didn't sell at the buy it now price or the make offer range, I was curious to to see how flexible the lowest price was.

But since I never heard back from them, I assume to the lowest price I was provided by the "make offer" tool is the absolute lowest price for the item.

So I guess any items that don't sell at those prices will be returned to their consignors.


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