quote:Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: Discovery's launch is now no earlier than 2:52 a.m. EST Friday, Dec. 3 - more details here.
I had a feeling that a launch on November 30th would not be feasible...
issman1 Member
Posts: 1042 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 11-19-2010 09:45 AM
So does that mean four consecutive launch attempts for Discovery? It also appears Wheelock, Walker and Yurchikin won't be asked to remain aboard ISS (in fact they'll be landing sooner rather than later).
I also understand a possible window for STS-133 may open in mid-December. Presumably that's in daylight, but how long would that be? Surely it'll also impact the arrival of Kondratyev, Nespoli and Coleman?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-19-2010 09:58 AM
If Dec. 3 is approved for the first launch attempt, then NASA will have until Dec. 6 to get Discovery off the ground.
Teams are off looking at a possible late December window opening on or around Dec. 17, which would still be a night launch (around 9 p.m. EST). Launching then would require removing about 600 pounds of payload from Discovery.
Soyuz TMA-20 is set to dock at the ISS on Dec. 17, so it would not be impacted by a launch by Discovery on the same or later days.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1042 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 11-19-2010 10:25 AM
I presume the 600lb reduction would be low-priority items? Still, it's good that all options are being considered to fly Discovery before year's end. A night launch, but daylight landing then?
teopze Member
Posts: 180 From: Warsaw, Poland Registered: May 2008
posted 11-23-2010 04:26 PM
Any news how certain the Dec. 3 date is? Also, what is the last possible launch opportunity in the early-Dec. window (including all possible extensions)? thanks
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-24-2010 11:03 AM
NASA release
NASA Schedules News Conference About Next Space Shuttle Launch
NASA managers will hold a news conference at 2 p.m. CST today from the agency's Johnson Space Center in Houston to provide the status of the next space shuttle mission, STS-133, and the progress of repairs since Discovery's launch was delayed Nov. 5.
The news conference will follow today's Space Shuttle Program Requirements Control Board. Program officials reviewed repairs and engineering evaluations associated with cracks on two 21-foot-long, U-shaped aluminum brackets called stringers on the shuttle's external tank.
The briefing participants are:
Bill Gerstenmaier, associate administrator for Space Operations
John Shannon, Space Shuttle Program manager
The conference will air live on NASA TV and the agency's website.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-24-2010 12:10 PM
Space shuttle Discovery's STS-133 launch is now no earlier than Dec. 17. Read more here...
Fezman92 Member
Posts: 1031 From: New Jersey, USA Registered: Mar 2010
posted 11-24-2010 02:19 PM
From what I have read, most of the issues are about the ET. Now was this the same ET that was damaged from Katrina?
GACspaceguy Member
Posts: 2475 From: Guyton, GA Registered: Jan 2006
posted 11-24-2010 02:39 PM
No, that tank from Katrina will be used on STS-134.
AJ Member
Posts: 511 From: Plattsburgh, NY, United States Registered: Feb 2009
posted 11-24-2010 09:16 PM
Earlier this week my family booked a trip to Florida in December... returning home on the 18th. To say that we're now hoping and praying for a Dec. 17 launch is a bit of an understatement.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1042 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 11-25-2010 03:20 AM
Evidently this is a fatal flaw. Swapping the external tank with STS-134's or the will-it-or-won't-it-happen STS-135's seems the obvious thing to do.
GACspaceguy Member
Posts: 2475 From: Guyton, GA Registered: Jan 2006
posted 11-25-2010 04:15 AM
The issue is that without knowing root cause all remaining tanks are suspect.
Jay Chladek Member
Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
posted 11-27-2010 04:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by issman1: Evidently this is a fatal flaw. Swapping the external tank with STS-134's or the will-it-or-won't-it-happen STS-135's seems the obvious thing to do.
And what part of an engineering background ever gave you that conclusion?
Based on past situations, NASA will likely fly this ET, but they want to understand what happened first and take into account all the variables first before deciding to fly it. That is how they work. There is nothing about cracked stringers that says "fatal" flaw, at least from what I've heard or seen.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 12-03-2010 11:06 AM
Space shuttle Discovery's STS-133 launch is now no earlier than Feb. 3, 2011 at 1:34 a.m. EST (0634 GMT). The delay also reschedules Endeavour's STS-134 launch to no earlier than Apr. 1 at 3:15 a.m. EDT (0715 GMT). Read more here...
chappy Member
Posts: 231 From: Cardiff, S. Wales, UK Registered: Apr 2006
posted 12-03-2010 01:07 PM
Does this mean that there will be no meeting up between the Kelly brothers after all?
Fezman92 Member
Posts: 1031 From: New Jersey, USA Registered: Mar 2010
posted 12-03-2010 01:32 PM
Expedition 26 ends in March a month before STS-134, so no, unless there is another change.
tegwilym Member
Posts: 2331 From: Sturgeon Bay, WI Registered: Jan 2000
posted 12-03-2010 03:41 PM
So does this mean that NASA will be selling more tickets again before this next try?
capoetc Member
Posts: 2169 From: McKinney TX (USA) Registered: Aug 2005
posted 12-03-2010 03:49 PM
If I recall correctly, tickets already sold will still be honored.
GACspaceguy Member
Posts: 2475 From: Guyton, GA Registered: Jan 2006
posted 12-03-2010 04:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by tegwilym: So does this mean that NASA will be selling more tickets again before this next try?
Just so that we all understand, NASA does not sell tickets. That is left up to Delaware North the company that has the contract for the tours at KSC. Also, Delaware North sets the policy on ticket sales not NASA.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1042 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 12-03-2010 06:00 PM
quote:Originally posted by Jay Chladek: And what part of an engineering background ever gave you that conclusion?
Well, NASA has delayed the mission into 2011. So they're not sure Discovery would reach orbit on December 17 without suffering major damage to its TPS.
Perhaps the shuttle programme really is showing its age?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 12-03-2010 06:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by issman1: So they're not sure Discovery would reach orbit on December 17 without suffering major damage to its TPS.
That is not the reason NASA provided for delaying the launch further.
At this point, the concern is less about foam shedding from Discovery's external tank than it is about not understanding the root cause behind the cracked stringers.
As repaired, NASA considers Discovery's external tank to be in flight-ready condition but without knowing what caused the original crack, they are taking the time to conduct further tests and analysis to better their understanding of what led them to having to do repairs.
onesmallstep Member
Posts: 1310 From: Staten Island, New York USA Registered: Nov 2007
posted 12-03-2010 06:31 PM
Taken Nov. 1 by the GeoEye-1 satellite, this is how the shuttle looks on Pad 39A from 425 miles up. Pretty impressive!
Now we only have to wait patiently until February of next year to see a rocket plume and an empty pad again...
issman1 Member
Posts: 1042 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 12-04-2010 03:30 AM
quote:Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: That is not the reason NASA provided for delaying the launch further.
In that case, I'm not sure why NASA delayed the launch for months to study a minor problem that affects just two missions (STS-133 and 134).
Either the ETs are safe to fly or aren't. They repaired the cracked foam and stringers which, if left as it was, violated safety criteria. Slightly confusing for us laypersons.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 12-04-2010 06:11 AM
They delayed because they have encountered a problem they do not understand and since the external tank is not recovered post-flight, the only way to gain that understanding is by testing before launching.
Yes, in the end, they may discover that an isolated incident resulted in these cracks -- in fact, at this time they have no reason to suspect that the problem is generic -- but they do not fly based on suspicions or assumptions.
As the program officials have said a few times, they are not driven by the manifest schedule but by the engineering. They expected to resolve this problem quickly as they expected an obvious cause of the cracks. They didn't find one. So they are taking the additional time needed to do the testing and improve their understanding.
Rob Joyner Member
Posts: 1308 From: GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
posted 12-04-2010 08:25 AM
quote:Originally posted by tegwilym: So does this mean that NASA will be selling more tickets again before this next try?
I was told by the KSCVC ticket office that the LTTs for STS-133 would only go on sale again if there was a scrub after the KSC busses had already run to the causeway, and then only at the ticket plaza where they would most likely sell out. I don't know, but I would think if they didn't sell out at the plaza, KSC would then make them available on their site, but I'd call to make sure.
Fezman92 Member
Posts: 1031 From: New Jersey, USA Registered: Mar 2010
posted 12-04-2010 11:02 AM
Is this the longest a shuttle mission has been delayed, apart from the groundings after Challenger and Columbia? This means STS-134 has been delayed for just about an entire year now.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 12-04-2010 11:08 AM
STS-125 was originally set for launch in May 2008 and after multiple delays, including a swap in the manifest order and rollback to the Vehicle Assembly Building, ultimately flew in May 2009.
Delta7 Member
Posts: 1505 From: Bluffton IN USA Registered: Oct 2007
posted 12-04-2010 12:33 PM
I believe STS-107 was significantly delayed from it's original launch date.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 12-04-2010 07:06 PM
quote:Originally posted by chappy: Does this mean that there will be no meeting up between the Kelly brothers after all?
From Mark Kelly, via Twitter...
Our launch date changed. Now 1 April 2011. Unfortunately no visit with my brother Scott in space. Nature of the spaceflight business.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1042 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 12-05-2010 01:10 AM
They could have met if NASA did what it originally planned by flying STS-134 ahead of 133.
There was a cheeky question asked by one reporter at the press briefing that if the problem is that vexing, perhaps the shuttle programme should end now.
moorouge Member
Posts: 2454 From: U.K. Registered: Jul 2009
posted 12-05-2010 03:03 AM
Silly question. Why haven't they rolled the stack back to the VAB? And what are the likely effects such a long time on the pad going to be?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 12-05-2010 08:44 AM
quote:Originally posted by issman1: They could have met if NASA did what it originally planned by flying STS-134 ahead of 133.
Not necessarily; it was the change in flight order that originally resulted in the two brothers' mission dates overlapping. Further, the manifest change also swapped the external tank (and solid rocket boosters) for STS-133 and STS-134, so instead of Discovery, Endeavour would now be facing delays as a result of the hydrogen leak and cracked stringers.
As the Kellys are the first to say, it was happenstance that brought the possibility of their meeting in space and it was -- and now is -- happenstance that has removed that possibility.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 12-05-2010 09:51 AM
quote:Originally posted by moorouge: Why haven't they rolled the stack back to the VAB?
They are conducting a tanking test on the pad -- currently set for later this week -- where they will first instrument the tank with strain and temperature gauges, as well as train cameras to measure movement, and then load liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen as they would on launch day.
After exposing the tank to the same cryogenic conditions as what led to the Nov. 5 scrub, engineers and technicians will inspect the vehicle for further cracks, as well as verify that their work to replace the Ground Umbilical Carrier Plate halted the gaseous hydrogen leak.
If after collecting and analyzing the data from that test the program determines it still needs to inspect the side of the external tank facing away from the orbiter, then the shuttle could still be rolled back to the Vehicle Assembly Building. But at this time, they have no pressing reason to do so.
The shuttle can and has safely remained on the pad for several months.
moorouge Member
Posts: 2454 From: U.K. Registered: Jul 2009
posted 12-05-2010 02:10 PM
quote:Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: The shuttle can and has safely remained on the pad for several months.
Another silly question. So what's the longest a shuttle has remained on the pad before launch?
moorouge Member
Posts: 2454 From: U.K. Registered: Jul 2009
posted 12-11-2010 11:53 AM
To answer my own question - assuming a 3rd Feb 2011 launch (announced as earliest) and that there is no return to the VAB, Discovery will have been on the pad for 104 days. Is this the longest?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 12-11-2010 03:30 PM
I don't know if it is the absolute longest, but Challenger sat on the pad 126 days (Nov. 30, 1982 through April 4, 1983) before flying its maiden mission, STS-6.
Discovery, if it is not rolled back and assuming a Feb. 3, 2011 liftoff, will be on the pad 136 days (from Sept. 21, 2010).
There has been some increased talk about rolling Discovery back to the VAB, but a decision to do so won't come before the tanking test currently planned for Dec. 15.
moorouge Member
Posts: 2454 From: U.K. Registered: Jul 2009
posted 12-11-2010 05:15 PM
You are quite correct about Discovery Robert. I forgot to include October when I added up.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 12-13-2010 05:47 PM
Discovery won't be setting any records for time on the pad. After the tanking test -- now scheduled for Friday -- the shuttle will be rolled back to the Vehicle Assembly Building.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 12-14-2010 05:44 AM
Via NASA TV, a few minutes of footage showing technicians installing strain gauges to prepare Discovery's external tank for Friday's tanking test:
A total of 89 strain gauges and temperature sensors will be installed to precisely record movement and temperatures from the external tank's ribbed intertank area as it chills and warms again during the fuel loading and emptying process.
hawaiidan New Member
Posts: From: Registered:
posted 12-20-2010 05:03 PM
Flying (again) 12,300 miles for Feb 3. Anyone have two tickets to causeway and KSC? I work with Keck, mid mid-pacific astro physics... dsmith66@earthlink.net if you can help.
posted 11-18-2010 03:43 PM
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