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Author
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Topic: Missing Apollo Hasselblad magazines
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-17-2011 08:56 PM
  
I have never seen any Apollo images from the following Hasselblad magazines: - 63
- 100
- 101
- 102
- 103
- 123
- 126
- 127
- 128
- 129
- 130
- 132
I believe that one magazine was left behind on the lunar surface by mistake on Apollo 14. Were the other magazines never used or are there photos out there that have rarely if ever been seen? |
328KF
Member Posts: 1294
From:
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 02-19-2011 12:35 PM
Pete and Al mistakenly left a color film magazine on the lunar surface, but I don't have the number handy. I know they discussed it with MCC during the trip home so it can probably be found in the transcript. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-19-2011 02:07 PM
Thank you 328KF for sending along that interesting bit of information. I did not know that Apollo 12 had also left behind a magazine on the lunar surface.The Hasselblad magazines listed in the Apollo Image Atlas and the Apollo Image Gallery range from mag 01 (Apollo 4) to mag 163 (Apollo 17). The list seems to take into account the Apollo 14 magazine that was left on the lunar surface, but not the Apollo 12 magazine that was also left on the lunar surface. That is somewhat confusing. There are missing frame counts that correspond to the missing magazines listed in my previous post, so that would seem to indicate that those magazines do exist somewhere. |
Fezman92
Member Posts: 1031
From: New Jersey, USA
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 02-19-2011 03:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 328KF:
Pete and Al mistakenly left a color film magazine on the lunar surface.
Man, that sucks. When we go back to the moon, I hope they can get it... |
paulus humungus
Member Posts: 400
From: Burton, Derbyshire, England
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 02-20-2011 05:46 AM
The magazine will be well and truly frazzelled by now. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-20-2011 09:36 AM
The Apollo 14 Lunar Surface Journal identifies the film left on the lunar surface as magazine HH.The method used to identify the Apollo Hasselblad magazines is very confusing to say the least ... a combination of numbers, letters, double-letters and number-letters. Perhaps the person who came up with this system is the same guy who is responsible for the ultra-confusing number-letter and out-of-sequence Shuttle flight designations! |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3241
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 02-20-2011 03:28 PM
Pete Conrad was quoted somewhere as saying that the magazine left behind contained mostly lunar orbital photography, implying that not many many lunar surface pictures were lost.Changing the subject slightly, did both Hasselblads have B&W film on the second Apollo 12 EVA? If not, when one of the cameras broke could they not have swopped the magazines to allow colour photography of Surveyor 3? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-20-2011 04:15 PM
It is my understanding that on Apollo 12, mags 46/47 on EVA-1 were both colour, and mags 48/49 on EVA-2 were both black and white. I think I got that right. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-12-2011 04:36 PM
Are there any plans to add additional full Hasselblad magazines to the Project Apollo Archive Apollo Image Gallery? The latest update was back in 2007. Currently there are no magazines posted for Apollo 8 10 and 13. |
mooncollector
Member Posts: 104
From: Alabama, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
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posted 03-20-2011 03:33 PM
I have been wanting to ask this about the Apollo Archive as well, I really wish they would post the Apollo 10 magazines there. There are a lot of engineering shots of the docked LM and of the lunar orbit operations that are unique to that mission and I would love to see all that content added. |
GerryM
Member Posts: 245
From: Glenside PA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-20-2011 07:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mooncollector:
I really wish they would post the Apollo 10 magazines there.
You might consider the Apollo 10 Hi-Res image disc at RetroSpaceImages.com. I believe that magazine 27, 34 and 35 are included... not to mention all the other great stuff on the disc. |
bernoullis
Member Posts: 14
From: UK
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 04-06-2011 03:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mooncollector:
I have been wanting to ask this about the Apollo Archive as well, I really wish they would post the Apollo 10 magazines there.
No need to really bother with RetroSpaceImages.com either - plenty of the Apollo 10 Hasselblad images are available on the Apollo Flight Journal! They are in decent resolution too, much better than currently available on the Lunar & Planetary Institute's website. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 04-06-2011 04:26 PM
The Apollo Flight Journal does have the full Hasselblad magazines for Apollo 8. Magazines 12-18 are posted. The images are high-resolution. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 04-08-2012 03:56 PM
The Apollo Image Atlas has the five Apollo 13 Hasselblad magazines 58-62 in high-resolution.There are some nice LM and SM views - you can even see the top of the SM.
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 05-09-2012 07:53 AM
All the Apollo Hasselblad 70mm photos taken on the lunar surface can be found on a couple of websites. Those photos are listed by magazine and the frame numbers are in sequence. But some magazines are a mixed bag of lunar surface, orbital and multiple-EVA photos. Magazine 134 from Apollo 17 contains both EVA-1 and EVA-3 photos, for instance. Using the NASA photography indexes, I thought it would be interesting to list the frame numbers by EVA instead of by magazine. That would give you a list of all the photos taken on any particular EVA. For example, the final EVA on Apollo 17 would look something like this Apollo 17 EVA-3
- 20452-20532 ... mag 134
- 21185-21273 ... mag 139
- 21351-21509 ... mag 140
- 21510-21668 ... mag 141
- 21669-21833 ... mag 142
- 21834-21982 ... mag 143
- 22192-22228 ... mag 145
- 22289-22450 ... mag 146
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 12-31-2012 07:11 AM
During the Apollo 12 post EVA-2 activities back inside the LM, Pete Conrad mentions the 70mm colour magazine that was left on the lunar surface:CONRAD: Well, I got some bad news for you and some good news. In the first place, the third magazine was a color magazine, and all it had on it were some shots that were taken of earthrise and a few things like that coming around on descent; and, unfortunately, Al and I got our signals crossed, and it's outside on the lunar surface right now. Now, what we did was take the black-and-white magazine off of Al's camera when it failed and put it on my camera and used it up so that we have two complete black and whites on the second EVA and two complete colors of the first EVA, and the only thing that's missing is the color magazine that has undocking and a couple other mundane things like that on it at -- at the beginning of the LM operation; and, unfortunately, that's out there in that saddle bag. We didn't catch that one. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-13-2013 08:48 PM
The film left on the moon on Apollo 14 was 16mm DAC magazine HH. The moonwalkers mentioned it in the crew debriefing:MITCHELL: Except I felt a bit disappointed with the sketchy documentation we did on some of those rocks, that we couldn't do a better job of identifying -- putting a number on a particular rock so that we could subsequently identify which rock was picked up where. It's going to be a hard job to sort it out, I'm sure.SHEPARD: With the geologists, we may be able to sort it out very well in a matter of a day or so. We did get everything in that we needed although we made two trips with the ETB and an extra rock bag. We did get everything up there all right, with the exception of one camera magazine. MITCHELL: Outside of my own stupidity -- missing that one magazine. This was complicated by the fact that, in real time, we decided to take the extra magazine we hadn't used on EVA-1 out on EVA-2, so that we had an extra magazine on the surface. In checking things off on the checklist before ingress on the second EVA, I very brightly marked off three magazines. We had three indeed. There was the fourth magazine sitting there on the camera that we just overlooked. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-06-2013 10:51 AM
- magazine 63 is Apollo 13 (black and white earth? views)
- magazine 127 is Apollo 16 (earthshine photography)
- magazine 129 is Apollo 16 (earthshine photography)
- magazine 132 is Apollo 16 (onboard images)
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One Big Monkey
Member Posts: 173
From: West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 11-07-2013 06:17 AM
I found the missing Apollo 13 images (or some at least) at the Gateway to Astronaut Photography of Earth, which is an excellent source of high quality scans and frequently has images that the Apollo Image Atlas, ALSJ or AFJ don't have.The links to the images are: They all show the same scene at different exposure levels and the weather satellite data suggest a time of around 06:30 GMT on April 17th 1970. The view is of the Pacific ocean with eastern Australia just coming into view. An hour after my suggested time, capcom tell the crew that they will be handing over to Honeysuckle, which ties in with my interpretation at least! |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-07-2013 08:06 AM
Thanks very much for those images. The list from the opening post is getting smaller and smaller. The remaining magazines I have never seen anywhere are 100, 101, 102, 103, 123, 126, 128 and 130. There are gaps in the frame numbers that correspond to those mags. Most of those mags (if they exist) are probably from Apollo 16. A few might be from Apollo 15.
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One Big Monkey
Member Posts: 173
From: West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 11-07-2013 03:01 PM
I searched for Apollo 16 Earthshine photography and came up with this: Magazines 127 and 129Most are pretty unrevealing, but there are some that will be interesting to look at with some enhancement and in comparison with astronomy software like stellarium! |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-07-2013 04:14 PM
There are thumbnail photos (10) of Apollo 16 magazine 132 in the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal. |
One Big Monkey
Member Posts: 173
From: West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 11-07-2013 11:40 PM
Stars! At last there are stars!!Compare and contrast AS16-129-20063 with this Stellarium view. Taken with the Nikon camera using an f1.2 55m lens. There are several other views on magazines 127 and 129 of this collection of bright stars in various exposure settings.  |
Philip
Member Posts: 6078
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 11-08-2013 06:29 AM
Also check "Hasselblad and the Moon" by Alain Lazzarini. |
One Big Monkey
Member Posts: 173
From: West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 11-10-2013 02:10 PM
There is some information about the magazines used in the Apollo low light level photography in these reports: 1 and 2.Magazines 128 and 130 seem to have been used for calibration purposes for the filters used in the low light level experiments. Magazine 126 was used for Gegenschein photography and to image the Gum nebula. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-10-2013 03:22 PM
Impressive research, OBM. Here is an updated missing mag list with the latest info that we have found: - mag 63 - Apollo 13 (black and white earth views)
- mag 100 - Apollo 15 (zodiacal light, Milky Way... ) 35mm
- mag 101 - Apollo 15 (calibration, lunar surface, libration... ) 35mm
- mag 102 - Apollo 15 (calibration, Milky Way, lunar eclipse... ) 35mm
- mag 103 - ?
- mag 123 - Apollo 16 (Far Ultraviolet Camera/Spectroscope photos)
- mag 126 - Apollo 16 (calibration, Gegenschein, Gum Nebula... ) 35mm
- mag 127 - Apollo 16 (earthshine photography) 35mm
- mag 128 - Apollo 16 (calibration) 35mm
- mag 129 - Apollo 16 (earthshine photography) 35mm
- mag 130 - Apollo 16 (calibration) 35mm
- mag 132 - Apollo 16 (onboard images)
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-11-2013 04:32 PM
The UFO photos must be on mag 103. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-12-2013 04:41 PM
Here is a list of magazines for each flight, using the above information to fill in the gaps. Most magazines are 70mm. Some are 35mm. - mag 01 ... Apollo 4
- mag 02 ... Apollo 6
- mags 03-11 ... Apollo 7
- mags 12-18 ... Apollo 8
- mags 19-26D ... Apollo 9
- mags 27-35 ... Apollo 10
- mags 36-45 ... Apollo 11
- mags 46-57 ... Apollo 12
- mags 58-63 ... Apollo 13
- mags 64-80 ... Apollo 14
- mags 81-102 ... Apollo 15
- mag 103 ... ?
- mags 104-132 ... Apollo 16
- mags 133-163 ... Apollo 17
There was an unnumbered 35mm magazine used for pre-flight (18 July 71) and post-flight (12 Aug 71) calibration. Perhaps that is magazine 103. |
One Big Monkey
Member Posts: 173
From: West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 11-19-2013 01:43 AM
Not a Hasselblad, but one 16mm magazine seems to have had a noble fate. From the Apollo 15 mission report: The only 16-mm data acquisition camera magazine containing very-high-speed black-and-white film was lost. About 35 percent of the magazine had been exposed during lunar orbital flight and transearth coast for solar corona and sextant star field photography. The most probable cause of the loss of the magazine was that it floated through the hatch during the Command Module Pilot's extravehicular activity. By way of keeping the record updated, the reports (here and here contain some discussion about and (poor quality) poor qualities of Apollo 15 and 17 35mm Nikon images from the low light photography experiments. |
One Big Monkey
Member Posts: 173
From: West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 12-10-2013 03:52 PM
I've just come across this page that has UV images from Apollo 16's magazine 123.This page details how those images were treated. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 12-10-2013 05:53 PM
Great find, OBM. Interesting to see these photos. Quite an impressive effort by Mr. Bohn to make these images available.This nasa.gov page has information on the operation of the Apollo 16 UV camera on the lunar surface. 178 UV photos were taken. The backup UV camera was used on Skylab 4. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-21-2014 11:12 PM
On page 10-29 in the Apollo 16 post-flight technical debriefing, John Young talks about the Far UV camera and the problems he was having with alignment settings. The discussion included this: There were at least two targets that they called up that were pointing and we got the alinement with this tough azimuth change and they were pointed right at the lunar module and you know, when I turned the thing around I was taking a nice picture of Charlie looking out the window. I think that was at the end of EVA-3. Does that photo actually exist? |
One Big Monkey
Member Posts: 173
From: West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 03-22-2014 02:07 AM
Hmm — it reads to me like he is saying that the alignment that was called for was wrong and pointed the camera at the LM instead of the sky! Not sure it actually means that he took the photograph. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 05-13-2014 10:28 AM
After Jim Irwin's LMP camera jammed on EVA-3, was it ever used again?The Apollo 15 Lunar Surface Journal indicates (at 167:01:10) that the LMP camera was apparently working again later in EVA-3, but I do not think that is correct. Magazine 88 was on the LMP camera (#38) when it jammed after frame 11881. The Reseau numbers indicate that the remaining frames were taken with the CDR camera (#31). |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-15-2014 12:36 AM
What were the Apollo 15 astronauts trying to photograph on Magazine 83? |
nasamad
Member Posts: 2163
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 06-15-2014 06:23 AM
I can't find Mag 83 on the photography index or the lunar photography data book for Apollo 15. They have been the subject of UFO hunters saying NASA suppressed them over the years. Looking at the shots I'd say if they were images of anything, it was some sort of venting or debris on the windows given the streaking. Maybe the shots were so unusable they didn't bother to catalogue them or spend better directed resources on printing them! |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-15-2014 07:56 PM
It looks like the photos were taken with camera #38, which was the LMP camera that jammed on the lunar surface during EVA-3. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-17-2015 09:41 AM
Interesting hand-written note by Buzz Aldrin about the 70mm magazines used on the lunar surface.Not indicated in the note, but I believe there are also some photos on "Q" that were taken with the 80mm camera before the EVA. |
One Big Monkey
Member Posts: 173
From: West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 03-01-2015 08:31 AM
I recently came across this page featuring four images from Apollo 15's magazine 102 and managed to find the stars that are in it.It would be great to see better quality versions of those images. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3525
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 04-03-2015 12:24 PM
The ASTP flight used at least 32 magazines of film. Most of those images are probably Earth views. Even so, there must be a lot of rarely-seen onboard images on those mags too. Interior photos were taken with a Nikon 35mm camera.The highest photo number I have found is AST-32-2806. Here is partial list of the frame numbers: - AST-01 ... frames 1-70
- AST-02 ... frames 71-146
- AST-03 ... frames 147-197*
- AST-04 ... frames 198-257*
- AST-05 ... frames 258-316*
- AST-06 ... frames 317-376*
- AST-07 ... frames 377-440*
- AST-08 ... frames 441-503*
- AST-09 ... frames 504-575
- AST-10 ... frames 576-640*
- AST-11 ... frames 641-703*
- AST-12 ... frames 704-788*
- AST-13 ... frames 789-859
- AST-14 ... frames 860-968
- AST-15 ... frames 969-1120
- AST-16 ... frames 1121-1273
- AST-17 ... frames 1274-1379
- AST-18 ... frames 1380-1535
- AST-19 ... farmes 1536-1599
- AST-20 ... frames 1600-1672
- AST-21 ... frames 1673-1739
- AST-22 ... frames 1740-1877
- AST-23 ... frames 1878-1945
- AST-24 ... frames 1946-2019
- AST-25 ... frames 2020-2172*
- AST-26 ... frames 2173-2330*
- AST-27 ... frames 2331-2399
- AST-28 ... ?
- AST-29 ... ?
- AST-30 ... frames 2541-2608
- AST-31 ... frames 2609-2670*
- AST-32 ... ?
* list updated 10-02-2016
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