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Author Topic:   Missing Apollo Hasselblad camera magazines
LM-12
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From: Ontario, Canada
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posted 02-17-2011 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have never seen any Apollo images from the following Hasselblad magazines:
  • 63
  • 100-103
  • 123
  • 126-130
  • 132
I believe that one magazine was left behind on the lunar surface by mistake on Apollo 14. Were the other magazines never used or are there photos out there that have rarely if ever been seen?

328KF
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posted 02-19-2011 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 328KF   Click Here to Email 328KF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pete and Al mistakenly left a color film magazine on the lunar surface, but I don't have the number handy. I know they discussed it with MCC during the trip home so it can probably be found in the transcript.

LM-12
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posted 02-19-2011 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you 328KF for sending along that interesting bit of information. I did not know that Apollo 12 had also left behind a magazine on the lunar surface.

The Hasselblad magazines listed in the Apollo Image Atlas and the Apollo Image Gallery range from mag 01 (Apollo 4) to mag 163 (Apollo 17). The list seems to take into account the Apollo 14 magazine that was left on the lunar surface, but not the Apollo 12 magazine that was also left on the lunar surface. That is somewhat confusing.

There are missing frame counts that correspond to the missing magazines listed in my previous post, so that would seem to indicate that those magazines do exist somewhere.

Fezman92
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posted 02-19-2011 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 328KF:
Pete and Al mistakenly left a color film magazine on the lunar surface.
Man, that sucks. When we go back to the moon, I hope they can get it...

paulus humungus
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posted 02-20-2011 05:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for paulus humungus   Click Here to Email paulus humungus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The magazine will be well and truly frazzelled by now.

LM-12
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posted 02-20-2011 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Apollo 14 Lunar Surface Journal identifies the film left on the lunar surface as magazine HH.

The method used to identify the Apollo Hasselblad magazines is very confusing to say the least ... a combination of numbers, letters, double-letters and number-letters.

Perhaps the person who came up with this system is the same guy who is responsible for the ultra-confusing number-letter and out-of-sequence Shuttle flight designations!

Blackarrow
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posted 02-20-2011 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pete Conrad was quoted somewhere as saying that the magazine left behind contained mostly lunar orbital photography, implying that not many many lunar surface pictures were lost.

Changing the subject slightly, did both Hasselblads have B&W film on the second Apollo 12 EVA? If not, when one of the cameras broke could they not have swopped the magazines to allow colour photography of Surveyor 3?

LM-12
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posted 02-20-2011 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is my understanding that on Apollo 12, mags 46/47 on EVA-1 were both colour, and mags 48/49 on EVA-2 were both black and white. I think I got that right.

LM-12
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posted 03-12-2011 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are there any plans to add additional full Hasselblad magazines to the Project Apollo Archive Apollo Image Gallery? The latest update was back in 2007. Currently there are no magazines posted for Apollo 8 10 and 13.

mooncollector
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posted 03-20-2011 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mooncollector   Click Here to Email mooncollector     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have been wanting to ask this about the Apollo Archive as well, I really wish they would post the Apollo 10 magazines there. There are a lot of engineering shots of the docked LM and of the lunar orbit operations that are unique to that mission and I would love to see all that content added.

GerryM
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posted 03-20-2011 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GerryM   Click Here to Email GerryM     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mooncollector:
I really wish they would post the Apollo 10 magazines there.
You might consider the Apollo 10 Hi-Res image disc at RetroSpaceImages.com.

I believe that magazine 27, 34 and 35 are included... not to mention all the other great stuff on the disc.

bernoullis
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posted 04-06-2011 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bernoullis   Click Here to Email bernoullis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mooncollector:
I have been wanting to ask this about the Apollo Archive as well, I really wish they would post the Apollo 10 magazines there.
No need to really bother with RetroSpaceImages.com either - plenty of the Apollo 10 Hasselblad images are available on the Apollo Flight Journal! They are in decent resolution too, much better than currently available on the Lunar & Planetary Institute's website.

LM-12
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posted 04-06-2011 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Apollo Flight Journal does have the full Hasselblad magazines for Apollo 8. Magazines 12-18 are posted. The images are high-resolution.

LM-12
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posted 04-08-2012 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Apollo Image Atlas has the five Apollo 13 Hasselblad magazines 58-62 in high-resolution.

There are some nice LM and SM views - you can even see the top of the SM.

LM-12
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posted 05-09-2012 07:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All the Apollo Hasselblad 70mm photos taken on the lunar surface can be found on a couple of websites. Those photos are listed by magazine and the frame numbers are in sequence. But some magazines are a mixed bag of lunar surface, orbital and multiple-EVA photos. Magazine 134 from Apollo 17 contains both EVA-1 and EVA-3 photos, for instance.

Using the NASA photography indexes, I thought it would be interesting to list the frame numbers by EVA instead of by magazine. That would give you a list of all the photos taken on any particular EVA. For example, the final EVA on Apollo 17 would look something like this

    Apollo 17 EVA-3
  • 20452-20532 ... mag 134
  • 21185-21273 ... mag 139
  • 21351-21509 ... mag 140
  • 21510-21668 ... mag 141
  • 21669-21833 ... mag 142
  • 21834-21982 ... mag 143
  • 22192-22228 ... mag 145
  • 22289-22450 ... mag 146

LM-12
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posted 12-31-2012 07:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
During the Apollo 12 post EVA-2 activities back inside the LM, Pete Conrad mentions the 70mm colour magazine that was left on the lunar surface:

CONRAD: Well, I got some bad news for you and some good news. In the first place, the third magazine was a color magazine, and all it had on it were some shots that were taken of earthrise and a few things like that coming around on descent; and, unfortunately, Al and I got our signals crossed, and it's outside on the lunar surface right now. Now, what we did was take the black-and-white magazine off of Al's camera when it failed and put it on my camera and used it up so that we have two complete black and whites on the second EVA and two complete colors of the first EVA, and the only thing that's missing is the color magazine that has undocking and a couple other mundane things like that on it at -- at the beginning of the LM operation; and, unfortunately, that's out there in that saddle bag. We didn't catch that one.

LM-12
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posted 03-13-2013 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The film left on the moon on Apollo 14 was 16mm DAC magazine HH. The moonwalkers mentioned it in the crew debriefing:

MITCHELL: Except I felt a bit disappointed with the sketchy documentation we did on some of those rocks, that we couldn't do a better job of identifying -- putting a number on a particular rock so that we could subsequently identify which rock was picked up where. It's going to be a hard job to sort it out, I'm sure.

SHEPARD: With the geologists, we may be able to sort it out very well in a matter of a day or so. We did get everything in that we needed although we made two trips with the ETB and an extra rock bag. We did get everything up there all right, with the exception of one camera magazine.

MITCHELL: Outside of my own stupidity -- missing that one magazine. This was complicated by the fact that, in real time, we decided to take the extra magazine we hadn't used on EVA-1 out on EVA-2, so that we had an extra magazine on the surface. In checking things off on the checklist before ingress on the second EVA, I very brightly marked off three magazines. We had three indeed. There was the fourth magazine sitting there on the camera that we just overlooked.

LM-12
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posted 11-06-2013 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
  • magazine 63 is Apollo 13 (black and white earth? views)
  • magazine 127 is Apollo 16 (earthshine photography)
  • magazine 129 is Apollo 16 (earthshine photography)
  • magazine 132 is Apollo 16 (onboard images)

One Big Monkey
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posted 11-07-2013 06:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I found the missing Apollo 13 images (or some at least) at the Gateway to Astronaut Photography of Earth, which is an excellent source of high quality scans and frequently has images that the Apollo Image Atlas, ALSJ or AFJ don't have.

The links to the images are:

They all show the same scene at different exposure levels and the weather satellite data suggest a time of around 06:30 GMT on April 17th 1970.

The view is of the Pacific ocean with eastern Australia just coming into view. An hour after my suggested time, capcom tell the crew that they will be handing over to Honeysuckle, which ties in with my interpretation at least!

LM-12
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posted 11-07-2013 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks very much for those images.

The list from the opening post is getting smaller and smaller. The remaining magazines I have never seen anywhere are 100, 101, 102, 103, 123, 126, 128 and 130. There are gaps in the frame numbers that correspond to those mags.

Most of those mags (if they exist) are probably from Apollo 16. A few might be from Apollo 15.

One Big Monkey
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posted 11-07-2013 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I searched for Apollo 16 Earthshine photography and came up with this: Magazines 127 and 129

Most are pretty unrevealing, but there are some that will be interesting to look at with some enhancement and in comparison with astronomy software like stellarium!

LM-12
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posted 11-07-2013 04:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are thumbnail photos (10) of Apollo 16 magazine 132 in the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal.

One Big Monkey
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posted 11-07-2013 11:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stars! At last there are stars!!

Compare and contrast AS16-129-20063 with this Stellarium view.

Taken with the Nikon camera using an f1.2 55m lens. There are several other views on magazines 127 and 129 of this collection of bright stars in various exposure settings.

Philip
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posted 11-08-2013 06:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also check "Hasselblad and the Moon" by Alain Lazzarini.

One Big Monkey
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posted 11-10-2013 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is some information about the magazines used in the Apollo low light level photography in these reports: 1 and 2.

Magazines 128 and 130 seem to have been used for calibration purposes for the filters used in the low light level experiments.

Magazine 126 was used for Gegenschein photography and to image the Gum nebula.

Fra Mauro
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posted 11-10-2013 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fra Mauro   Click Here to Email Fra Mauro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now if you believe some people, perhaps, just perhaps, these magazines have photos of the UFOs seen on the moon!

LM-12
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posted 11-10-2013 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Impressive research, OBM. Here is an updated missing mag list with the latest info that we have found:
  • mag 63 - Apollo 13 (black and white earth views)
  • mag 100 - Apollo 15 (zodiacal light, Milky Way... ) 35mm
  • mag 101 - Apollo 15 (calibration, lunar surface, libration... ) 35mm
  • mag 102 - Apollo 15 (calibration, Milky Way, lunar eclipse... ) 35mm
  • mag 103 - ?
  • mag 123 - Apollo 16 (Far Ultraviolet Camera/Spectrograph photos)
  • mag 126 - Apollo 16 (calibration, Gegenschein, Gum Nebula... ) 35mm
  • mag 127 - Apollo 16 (earthshine photography) 35mm
  • mag 128 - Apollo 16 (calibration) 35mm
  • mag 129 - Apollo 16 (earthshine photography) 35mm
  • mag 130 - Apollo 16 (calibration) 35mm
  • mag 132 - Apollo 16 (onboard images)

LM-12
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posted 11-11-2013 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The UFO photos must be on mag 103.

LM-12
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posted 11-12-2013 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is a list of magazines for each flight, using the above information to fill in the gaps. Most magazines are 70mm. Some are 35mm.
  • mag 01 ... Apollo 4
  • mag 02 ... Apollo 6
  • mags 03-11 ... Apollo 7
  • mags 12-18 ... Apollo 8
  • mags 19-26D ... Apollo 9
  • mags 27-35 ... Apollo 10
  • mags 36-45 ... Apollo 11
  • mags 46-57 ... Apollo 12
  • mags 58-63 ... Apollo 13
  • mags 64-80 ... Apollo 14
  • mags 81-102 ... Apollo 15
  • mag 103 ... ?
  • mags 104-132 ... Apollo 16
  • mags 133-163 ... Apollo 17
There was an unnumbered 35mm magazine used for pre-flight (18 July 71) and post-flight (12 Aug 71) calibration. Perhaps that is magazine 103.

One Big Monkey
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posted 11-19-2013 01:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not a Hasselblad, but one 16mm magazine seems to have had a noble fate. From the Apollo 15 mission report:
The only 16-mm data acquisition camera magazine containing very-high-speed black-and-white film was lost. About 35 percent of the magazine had been exposed during lunar orbital flight and transearth coast for solar corona and sextant star field photography. The most probable cause of the loss of the magazine was that it floated through the hatch during the Command Module Pilot's extravehicular activity.
By way of keeping the record updated, the reports (here and here contain some discussion about and (poor quality) poor qualities of Apollo 15 and 17 35mm Nikon images from the low light photography experiments.

One Big Monkey
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posted 12-10-2013 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've just come across this page that has UV images from Apollo 16's magazine 123.

This page details how those images were treated.

LM-12
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posted 12-10-2013 05:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great find, OBM. Interesting to see these photos. Quite an impressive effort by Mr. Bohn to make these images available.

This nasa.gov page has information on the operation of the Apollo 16 UV camera on the lunar surface. 178 UV photos were taken. The backup UV camera was used on Skylab 4.

LM-12
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posted 03-21-2014 11:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On page 10-29 in the Apollo 16 post-flight technical debriefing, John Young talks about the Far UV camera and the problems he was having with alignment settings. The discussion included this:
There were at least two targets that they called up that were pointing and we got the alinement with this tough azimuth change and they were pointed right at the lunar module and you know, when I turned the thing around I was taking a nice picture of Charlie looking out the window.
I think that was at the end of EVA-3. Does that photo actually exist?

One Big Monkey
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posted 03-22-2014 02:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmm — it reads to me like he is saying that the alignment that was called for was wrong and pointed the camera at the LM instead of the sky! Not sure it actually means that he took the photograph.

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