Posts: 2
From: Owensboro, KY USA
Registered: Nov 2011

posted 11-04-2011 06:49 PM            

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Are there any differences between the patches that were actually issued to personnel involved in a space shuttle mission and the ones you see on eBay and the like?

I only ask as my late husband was a USAF Sgt assigned to an emergency abort landing team for two space shuttle launches in Ganbia in 1990 and has patches from those missions (one Columbia and the other Atlantis) that were issued to him at that time. Thanks!

Posts: 200
From: Vineland NJ, USA
Registered: Aug 2009

Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000

Posts: 200
From: Vineland NJ, USA
Registered: Aug 2009

Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted 11-04-2011 11:33 PM               

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A co-worker of mine was a USAF cop in the 90s and he said twice he had to go to Zaragoza Air Base in Spain to cover that field just in case the shuttle had to land there. It'd never occurred to me they would need a security element at all alternate landing sites but that does make sense.

I know Mike Mullane's book mentions astronauts being at one of more of these sites with passports for the crew just in case and the crew being told to pack civvies in case that happened.

Posts: 200
From: Vineland NJ, USA
Registered: Aug 2009

Posts: 333
From: Lowestoft, Suffolk, UK
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 11-09-2011 03:03 AM               

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I'd have to say that yes there is a different between patches that AB Emblem makes for one mission. They can be smaller and the color can charge. I see this a lot in the sets of mission patches I have.

But most of the time it is down to AB going from making the first few of them in the USA and then handing them over to there far east operator to do the mass of the souvenir patches for them.

Some times they send them off too soon and they run out of the ones they have made, and have to issue ones made in the far east.

Sometimes, AB will run out of a color in a run and will replace it with one that is close. I must say some of them have not been that close, too.

Posts: 451
From: Ellicott City, Maryland
Registered: Dec 2005

Posts: 200
From: Vineland NJ, USA
Registered: Aug 2009

Posts: 2
From: Owensboro, KY USA
Registered: Nov 2011

posted 11-09-2011 03:54 PM            

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Thanks everyone for your responses. My late husband was part of the USAF Medical Logisitcs division and was assigned to transport and monitor the box of human blood that the shuttle emergency landing team had with them in case of the need for blood transfusions in the event of an emergency landing.

The two patches that I have are the same as the regular mission patches (STS-35 and 37 I think) and are not specific for the Gambia location. Nice mementos to keep with a great story! Thanks again for all you insights!

Posts: 750
From: Statesville, NC
Registered: Mar 2009

posted 11-12-2011 08:16 AM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Z:
I really think it's sad that AB Emblem has the patches made in the far east! I even saw an American flag down in the Washington, DC area made in China.

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I live in North Carolina and have pride ABEmblem makes patches in my state. I am mortified they would outsource shuttle or any patch to another country. What a let down. Sign of the times though. Where I work will be leaving for Costa Rica next year. We're screwing ourselves.

Posts: 977
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 11-12-2011 08:54 AM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Z:
I really think it's sad that AB Emblem has the patches made in the far east!

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Is this true?

Posts: 328
From: La Jolla, CA, USA
Registered: Jul 2007

Posts: 578
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

Posts: 750
From: Statesville, NC
Registered: Mar 2009

Posts: 101
From: Bryan, Texas USA
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 11-15-2011 09:29 PM               

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Bad enough trying to sort out the differences between original 80's production runs and their contemporary AB reissues, but now we find out that we can't even count on getting an original, official production run patch for a mission that is still in orbit.

Where's Lion Brothers when we really need them?

Posts: 578
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

Posts: 750
From: Statesville, NC
Registered: Mar 2009

Posts: 2896
From: Titusville, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 11-16-2011 04:58 AM               

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I'm sure AB can speak for themselves but here's my take on this situation:

AB opened the factories outside of the US to keep production costs down. Unfortunately a familiar story these days. When a patch is newly released AB has manufactured prototypes for NASA and possibly filled the crew orders. These patches are made in North Carolina.

To increase the chance of having a crew patch made in the US, order your crew patch as soon as it's released. To keep up with demand, I expect all factories were cranking out STS-135 patches this year.

My own issue with AB is that over the years, the artwork is "dumbed down" until the current issue barely resembles the original. Case in point, Apollo 13. Is this due to international factories? I don't know.

Posts: 429
From:
Registered: Jul 2007

posted 11-16-2011 06:03 AM               

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Can I broaden this out a little, from shuttle patches to space patches?

For example, it is virtually impossible to obtain original ESA patches and the only way of filling a gap would be to have a souvenir patch from an Asian source. Something in me militates against supporting Malaysian copies (which are allegedly stolen) but how else can we get a representation of such, otherwise unobtainable, patches in our collection?

Posts: 200
From: Vineland NJ, USA
Registered: Aug 2009

Posts: 42984
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 11-16-2011 09:25 AM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by lm5eagle:
...how else can we get a representation of such, otherwise unobtainable, patches in our collection?

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I completely understand the desire to own a "complete" collection but may I suggest that not everything is meant or needs to be readily accessible to collectors?

I think it is healthy for the hobby to have items that are out of reach or for which only relatively few exist. They may create holes in our collections, but they are also goals to strive to find.

As for the original topic, unless AB Emblems' patches produced overseas differ greatly from the those made domestically, I don't see the controversy. After all, the space shuttle itself was made from parts and flew hardware fabricated overseas.

Posts: 333
From: Lowestoft, Suffolk, UK
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 11-16-2011 11:27 AM               

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Yes Robert, I am with you on out of reach patches but on the AB Emblems patches produced overseas I am not with you on this as there is a great difference in the patch I get from AB overseas makers.

Most are smaller and the colour are not the same as the ones I have from AB U.S.

Here's one for you: Expedition 19 named patches that we had made for us on here by AB. The patch is a lot smaller as are a number of the patches in this set, and the golds/yellow colors goes to lemon yellow in this patch to the original patches size and colour. This makes a number of patches in the set stand out as being odd to the original patches.

Onto a newer patch, the ISS Expedition 31 patch. In this patch the ISS is a mustard yellow and not gold.

I have just had in ISS Expeditions 31, 32 and 35 all made in Taiwan, and ISS Expedition 36 made in China. I now have to see if I can get them one more time, but this time made in the U.S.

Posts: 1031
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003

Posts: 333
From: Lowestoft, Suffolk, UK
Registered: Mar 2007

Posts: 224
From: Riner, Virginia USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted 11-16-2011 06:22 PM               

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You mean we still make things here in the good ole USA. Just kidding, I know how you feel Butch. The last few patches I purchased had stickers indicating "Made in Taiwan" and "Made in China". I was not happy with that but like most things we buy they are not made here in the USA.

Like you, I see a color variation at times. I look at it like this, by them being made in different countries using slightly different colors it only adds to the collection. However, in my opinion since AB Emblem states they are the official supplier of NASA patches they need to make them in one location so every patch will be alike in size and color. I am very patriotic so in my opinion they should be made in the USA.

As for the ISS crew patches, if not made in the USA then they should be made in one of the ISS contributing countries that actually fly astronauts on-board the ISS.

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From: The Netherlands
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From: Cape Canaveral, FL
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From: The Netherlands
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From: Lowestoft, Suffolk, UK
Registered: Mar 2007

Posts: 40
From: Stanhope, NJ 07874
Registered: Jun 2012

Posts: 427
From: Pampa, TX, US
Registered: May 2011

posted 09-01-2012 04:27 AM               

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What's really ironic is when they make US Flags in China. For example I ordered 154 3"x5" US flag patches from AB Emblems. Two had no tag on the back and the rest were made in China; the stripe directly below the starfield was slightly curved on the China patches (what's sad is that I've seen photos of astronauts wearing flags that had the same design error) and one out of 10 of them had incorrectly trimmed threads. One of them was so bad that I almost couldn't fix it.

That's the cost of cheaper manufacturing. Still, at least they don't do all of their manufacturing overseas like some other corporations...

As far as the number on the tag goes, I've been wondering the same thing. The top number is the item number (or SKU number or part number, whatever you want to call it). I guess the ##/## is the month and year? Every single China flag I have says "11/11 10" although it's hard to imagine them embroidering hundreds of these things on a single machine at a time.

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From: Paris, France
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From: Pampa, TX, US
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Posts: 596
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 09-05-2012 09:30 AM               

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Paying double does not guarantee no defects. Look at the recent STS-103 patch issue I discovered. ALL of the colors were wrong (despite being made at the US plant)! What we discovered was that 50 patches were made this way and that they (most likely) were a test run that shouldn't have been released.

What it all boils down to is that each collector has their own responsibility of getting and verifying that what they have is "official", if that's what they want, or what they believe they have in their collection holds true.

And then again, how do you define "official"? If it comes from AB, regardless of the slight variances in color and/or size, is it still "official" because it came from the source and is a representation of the actual patch worn on the mission?

I guess the only real answer is to only have patches from the first runs made for the astronauts, families and crews - only those that are identical in every aspect to those worn by the crew. But to me, that is severely limiting. Are you collecting for the purity of having "official" patches only or are you collecting to have each mission represented in your collection? For me, I'd choose the latter, and then, if I deem it important to the mission (Apollo 11 for me), I then ADD to that set in my collection the "official" versions if I find I don't have it already.