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  [Discuss] Artemis III (Orion/HLS in LEO) (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   [Discuss] Artemis III (Orion/HLS in LEO)
Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-11-2026 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please use this topic to discuss NASA's Artemis III mission, an Earth orbit rendezvous mission between the Orion spacecraft and available human landing systems.

Space Cadet Carl
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posted 04-11-2026 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Cadet Carl   Click Here to Email Space Cadet Carl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anybody seen any solid evidence that the crewed versions of SpaceX Starship or Blue Origin's Blue Moon will be anywhere remotely close to being ready to test next year on Artemis 3?

I haven't seen one single photo or read one article about the actual vehicles for Artemis 3 being fabricated or being on schedule for launch. Has anybody seen either vehicle actually under construction?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-11-2026 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I believe both companies are focusing on test vehicles at the present before starting fabrication of the flight article.

Blue Origin just completed vacuum tests of its Mark I lunar lander that they plan to send to the moon later this year. That vehicle is going to test tank designs and avionics to be incorporated into the larger Mark II that is their Artemis HLS (human landing system).

The company also is pulling from its New Shepard team for life support and cabin design development.

SpaceX is about 4 to 6 weeks away from flying its first third-generation Starship, the model that will become the Artemis HLS. It has a separate division working on life support and cabin design for the crewed version.

perineau
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posted 04-11-2026 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for perineau   Click Here to Email perineau     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And either one will be ready for a manned test flight in Earth orbit next year (as per the NASA timeline)?

Space Cadet Carl
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posted 04-11-2026 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Cadet Carl   Click Here to Email Space Cadet Carl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you so much, Robert for the quick reply. It sounds like a lot is happening later this year at both SpaceX and Blue Origin. I also have to keep reminding myself that today is not the 1960's, when we had 400,000 people and three percent of our total national budget going toward Apollo.

SpaceAngel
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posted 04-12-2026 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAngel   Click Here to Email SpaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Should we or not discount the possibility of naming the crew of Artemis III sometime late this year?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-21-2026 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA video
NASA moved the core stage, or the largest section, of the SLS (Space Launch System) rocket that will launch the crewed Artemis III mission in 2027 from the agency's Michoud Assembly Facility to the agency's Pegasus barge in New Orleans on April 20.

Space Cadet Carl
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posted 04-28-2026 08:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Cadet Carl   Click Here to Email Space Cadet Carl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ars Technica is saying that NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman told lawmakers on Monday, April 27th that SpaceX and Blue Origin, the agency's two lunar lander contractors, say they could have their spacecraft ready for the next Artemis mission in Earth orbit in late 2027, somewhat later than NASA's previous schedule.
When NASA revealed the revised Artemis III flight plan in February, officials suggested it might launch as soon as mid-2027, followed by up to two Artemis missions to the lunar surface in 2028...

Now, it's looking more like late 2027, at the earliest, for Artemis III.

"I've received responses from both vendors, both SpaceX and Blue Origin, to meet our needs for a late 2027 rendezvous, docking, and test of the interoperability of both landers in advance of a landing attempt in 2028," Isaacman said Monday.

GACspaceguy
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posted 04-28-2026 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am here on site at Kennedy Space Center for the SLS core stage rollover for Artemis III into the VAB. Fist movement was at 8am.

star61
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posted 04-28-2026 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for star61   Click Here to Email star61     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So I guess I've missed something. Either landing vehicle ready for the end of 2027? So does NASA test fly with whoever is first? Or both? Or just Starship and use Blue Origin if Starship fails?

With such different approaches to the landing system how do you design and train for a complex orbital docking and manoeuvring test flight, not knowing which system will be used?

I don't think for one minute Artemis III will fly in 2027 and seriously doubt a landing attempt before 2029. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but recent history doesn't inspire much confidence. Having said that, was super pleased that Artemis II appears to have been pretty near perfect flight once they finally got away.

Headshot
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posted 04-28-2026 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Agreed.

Also, along with the landing systems concern, I have read that the availability of new lunar spacesuits for NASA's current time frame is questionable as well.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-28-2026 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA has said that the new plan for the Artemis III mission is to test one or both human landing systems in Earth orbit. The details have yet to be shared.

It is not clear how long NASA will wait for a second lander to be ready before deciding to fly with just one, or if Starship gets preference given it had the contract for an Artemis III landing.

As for the spacesuits, if they are not ready to fly on Artemis III, they will be tested on the International Space Station.

dtemple
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posted 04-28-2026 07:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dtemple   Click Here to Email dtemple     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Before getting to my main point, I should note that I have not kept myself deeply informed about the Artemis moon landing craft. I am aware NASA is planning on testing two versions - one from SpaceX and the other from Blue Origin - on Artemis III. This seems to be a remarkably ambitious goal.

I wonder why NASA did not resurrect the Altair lander from the cancelled Constellation program. Seems it would have been further along in development at the time the current two proposals were initiated.

Blackarrow
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posted 04-28-2026 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the forthcoming Starship Flight 12 goes well, I could certainly see SpaceX being able to put a prototype HLS lander in orbit for Artemis III within a year, let alone 18 months or so. That's not the problem - the problem for NASA and SpaceX is and remains the requirement for multiple (I believe 10) Starship launches to refuel the HLS lander for a lunar landing mission.

Meanwhile, Blue Origin has suggested they are working on a Blue Moon 1.5 lunar lander, which apparently wouldn't need refuelling, but could do the landing with the fuel it has in its tanks. That would suggest that Blue Origin has the edge on SpaceX for the Artemis IV landing.

Headshot
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posted 04-28-2026 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not to hijack this thread, but another way to "accelerate" the Artemis IV landing mission would be to use the Blue Moon 1.5 lander and set it down, not at the South Pole area where the terrain and lighting conditions will be dicey and require some hovering time, but at one or two of the previously considered Apollo landing areas.

Rima Bode II is close to the equator (thus saving fuel) and has, since 2010, become a much more scientifically attractive site. It is also on the Chinese short list of landing sites. It would be cool if we beat them there and then land at the South Pole with Artemis V.

The other Apollo site is a bit more daring, but the Surveyor VII site on Tycho's north rim still gets geologists and engineers all misty-eyed. Imagine retrieving Surveyor parts that have been on the Moon for 60 years. It has the added benefit of being very suitable for a walking exploration mission, which Artemis IV is likely to be.

oly
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posted 04-29-2026 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do SpaceX and Blue Origin fly an uncrewed test of their lander designs first, before an Artemis III test is attempted? Is Artemis III planned to be a crew transfer to the lander, do a flight test, transfer back, and come home, or is it a test of the docking and maneuverability performance test?

History shows that it may be prudent to fly the landers first to ensure things like windows blowing out and structural integrity can be maintained before putting people in it.

It seems that Blue Origin is further along in its vehicle development, but this is only based on what information each has shared. If Blue Origin gets past the NG-3 problems and is cleared for flight, do they have the hardware, and can they do an uncrewed test flight of a crew design before any planned Artemis III flight?

Does SpaceX have a design locked in enough to do an uncrewed test flight of hardware that resembles their finalised lander design between now and any planned Artemis III launch?

star61
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posted 04-30-2026 03:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for star61   Click Here to Email star61     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have also been wondering about crew assignments. Presumably , the crew that flies Starship will be different from the crew that flies Blue Moon. I envisage two Artemis III crews in parallel training with final assignment when the landing vehicle is confirmed.

In someways it feels like the old days of military flight testing in the heady days of the 50s, with new jets coming through rapidly. At least that may have been the objective with competing companies using different concepts. I don't, however, think it has transferred well to spaceflight. It's the flight cadence problem and available crews. I think we may well end up with Artemis III, IV, V before a landing.

For Apollo the concept of all up testing got them to the goal of a landing before 1970. However, they knew exactly what vehicles were part of the system years before.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-30-2026 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At this point, NASA has not given any indication of there being two crews selected for Artemis III.

The agency has provided very little information with regards to the flight profile and objectives for the mission. All that has been confirmed is that it will be an Earth orbit mission with one or two of the human landing system vehicles to test rendezvous and docking techniques.

There has been no mention of the Artemis III crew entering the lander(s), or the lander(s) being anything more than a target for Orion.

Blue Origin is preparing to launch its Mark 1 Blue Moon lander to land on the moon later this year. Its Mark 2 will be used to land humans and the vehicle that flies on Artemis III is expected to be closer to a Mark 2 than a Mark 1.

Both Blue Origin and SpaceX have said they plan an uncrewed moon landing with their human-rated HLS before Artemis IV flies.

SpaceAngel
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posted 05-03-2026 11:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAngel   Click Here to Email SpaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is it true that the launch has been pushed to late 2027; if so, what's the reason?

Tom
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posted 05-03-2026 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom   Click Here to Email Tom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I were to guess, I would say it was lander(s) related.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 05-03-2026 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, both SpaceX and Blue Origin told Jared Isaacman that they needed more time to have their landers ready.

See Carl's (Space Cadet Carl) post above (from April 28) for more.

oly
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posted 05-03-2026 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There seem to be many unanswered questions about the lunar lander programs.

What are the NASA expectations regarding the flight testing of either system before putting crew on board? Does NASA or the FAA have a standard for qualifying spacecraft that carry people to the Moon?

We are already in Q2 of 2026. SpaceX has not flown its Block 3 Super Heavy launch vehicle or its lunar lander prototype. The Super Heavy has not yet put anything into a stable orbit; they have not done on-orbit rendezvous or refueling, which must be done before SpaceX can confirm how many refuelings they need to do to achieve a lunar landing. How many test flights do they need before they have successfully tested their lunar lander in space, including the life support, rendezvous, and maneuverability systems, before the end of 2027?

Blue Origin is in the same boat and has pulled people from the New Shepard program to work on the lunar program; at the same time, they have announced a significant ramping up of operations. They are also making changes to the New Glenn booster and second stage, which will require flight testing.

Both systems were developed with the Gateway in mind, and now have to modify their approaches to how they carry out a lunar landing. The end of 2027 is probably optimistic.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 05-26-2026 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA release
NASA to Announce Artemis III Crew, Provide Mission Progress Update

NASA will provide an update on the agency's Artemis III mission and announce the astronauts assigned to the test flight during a live event at 11 a.m. EDT on Tuesday, June 9, at the agency's Johnson Space Center in Houston.

The event will stream on NASA+ and on the agency's YouTube channel.

Artemis III will launch four astronauts from NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida aboard the Orion spacecraft on the SLS (Space Launch System) rocket. The mission will test critical rendezvous and docking capabilities between Orion and commercial human landing systems needed to deliver astronauts to the lunar surface. Building on the successful Artemis II crewed test flight in April, Artemis III will pave the way for future surface missions.

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posted 06-03-2026 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can the SLS/Orion combination be altered to include a lightweight dummy Blue Origin HLS for rendezvous and docking tests should New Glenn not be ready by the time Artemis III flies?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-09-2026 07:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA video
Tune in on Tuesday, June 9, at 11:30 a.m. EDT (1530 UTC) to meet the astronauts flying aboard Artemis III, the mission that will test rendezvous and docking capabilities with commercial landers in low Earth orbit. Commercial landers are needed to bring astronauts to the lunar surface during future Artemis missions.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-09-2026 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Artemis III crew is:
  • Randy Bresnik, commander
  • Luca Parmitano, pilot
  • Frank Rubio, mission specialist
  • Andre Douglas, mission specialist
The back-up crew member is Bob Hines.

issman1
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posted 06-09-2026 11:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for issman1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great crew, may their journey and orbital destination(s) be safe.

Delta7
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posted 06-09-2026 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great crew. The only real surprise was Frank Rubio. Up until now he's been the training coordinator for the current ASCAN class, so I assumed he was out of the loop.

SpaceAngel
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posted 06-09-2026 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAngel   Click Here to Email SpaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Congrats for the Artemis-III crew selection; why weren't any women chosen for this mission?

brianjbradley
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posted 06-09-2026 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for brianjbradley   Click Here to Email brianjbradley     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The whole announcement was interesting. It was not as exciting, motivating and frankly happy as the Artemis-II announcement at Ellington. Maybe we are used to this now or, to loosely quote the film Apollo 13, they are making a trip to the moon as exciting as a trip to Pittsburgh.

SpaceAholic
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posted 06-09-2026 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAngel:
why weren't any women chosen for this mission?

"Most qualified" for this mission profile based on available candidate pool was likely the selection criteria. Doesnt suggest women were excluded from consideration nor indicate women will not continue to fly on subsequent Artemis missions (may turn out next go around "most qualified" for Artemis IV's commander happens to be a female).

star61
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posted 06-09-2026 05:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for star61   Click Here to Email star61     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seems to me Bob Hines might be on his way to the Moon.

SpaceAholic
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posted 06-09-2026 08:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do find it interesting that NASA has adjusted its risk appetite with a single backup crew member.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-10-2026 08:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman responds:
Why are there no women assigned to Artemis III?

I have seen reactions ranging from disappointment to outrage. I have personally been to space twice with 50% female crews. My closest advisors and some of the smartest engineers I know are women. In our latest NASA leadership organization, nearly 50% of the Center Directors and Mission Directorate leadership are women. The last astronaut candidate class selected under this Administration was majority female because they were the best of the best, including one astronaut I previously went to space with.

In a world with so much controversy, I hope this can be a moment where we celebrate the astronauts selected, respect the integrity of the process, and recognize the extraordinary depth of talent across the entire corps. The crew selection does not involve any political appointees. The Astronaut Office assigns the crew that gives the mission the best chance of meeting its objectives, taking into account many factors, including the background and expertise of the astronauts, such as test pilot experience, development work on specific programs, and availability. For example, those raising this concern may not be aware of the pipeline of crews already preparing to launch to the Space Station, or those who have been undergoing lunar-specific training that would be a better fit for a future surface mission.

The Artemis III astronauts are experienced, qualified, and deserve to be celebrated for the mission they have been assigned, just as the crews that follow will be celebrated when their time comes. We have an extraordinary astronaut corps, and every mission and every crew is part of a larger campaign to get America back to the Moon and to build the future we all dreamed about as children.

What are the objectives for Artemis III if both landers will not be fully ready?

Coming off a highly successful lunar mission like Artemis II, it is not surprising that the bar is set high for Artemis III. I think it is important to understand how difficult and dangerous it is to land astronauts on the Moon. We have not done it in a very long time, and we want to draw from a past playbook for success. That means getting into a cadence of launching, learning, and rolling improvements into the next mission.

First and foremost, it is imperative for SLS to be flying with some frequency for operational currency and, honestly, safety. Earlier this year, it was very clear across NASA leadership that an additional mission was necessary in 2027. It is also imperative to gain interoperability data from rendezvous and docking with landers in Earth orbit. We do not need those landers that are still in development to be fully capable and certified for landing on the Moon on Artemis III, but we do need to test certain systems and controllability. Not to mention, we are moving quickly into a future where we do not require a single rocket to bring everything necessary for a mission to space, and as such, gaining experience with multi-launch campaigns and on-orbit assembly is directionally correct.

The Blue Origin test lander for Artemis III will incorporate many of the most important systems and subsystems that have not previously been operated by the provider, including ECLSS in a crew cabin, and other avionics. With SpaceX, they have demonstrated many of those capabilities continuously on Crew Dragon, but other controllability tests are important based on the negative-X axis acceleration that will be necessary when Starship undertakes the TLI burn to the Moon with a docked Orion.

After Artemis III, we will learn a lot and roll in further improvements, be that hardware, software, or procedural updates, as both providers undertake end-to-end uncrewed demonstrations to the surface in 2028, in advance of Artemis IV, where NASA astronauts will finally complete the grand return to the Moon.

As I said in my remarks yesterday, when Gene Cernan left the lunar surface on Apollo 17, he said, “We leave as we came, and, God willing, we shall return, with peace and hope for all mankind.” We are returning, and we are doing so with the fire carried forward from Apollo, the lessons learned from Artemis II, the crew of Artemis III, and all those who will follow. NASA will send the very best crews for the right missions. If the composition of our astronaut corps and our latest class of candidates says anything, it is that we have exactly the talent required to get the job done.

Godspeed Artemis III, and all those who will follow.

Jim Behling
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posted 06-10-2026 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAholic:
Do find it interesting that NASA has adjusted its risk appetite with a single backup crew member.
Shuttle had no backups.

SpaceAholic
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posted 06-10-2026 11:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
More specifically referring to the change from Artemis II to III (2 to 1 backup).

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-10-2026 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA's position has not changed, as it still has only one backup for its crew.

On Artemis II, it would appear that the Canadian Space Agency wanted to make sure that a Canadian flew on that mission (and gained training experience at the same time), so appointed one of its own astronauts (Jenni Gibbons) to backup Jeremy Hansen.

Now, it would also seem that ESA is less concerned about an American (Bob Hines) taking their crew member's seat should Luca Parmitano not be able to fly. (Or ESA has yet to announce their backup and someone [likely an Italian] will be named later.)

Ben
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posted 06-11-2026 09:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ben     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't understand the sudden concern for Artemis backup crews when there weren't any for decades with shuttle. The chances that not one, but two or more crewmembers all need a backup swap and that they wouldn't just delay the mission anyway are remote. There is no critical deadline involved.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-15-2026 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Artemis II Canadian Space Agency backup astronaut Jenni Gibbons will be lead Capcom for the Artemis III mission.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 06-19-2026 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA photo release
Training is underway! The Artemis III astronauts have begun preparing for their mission, starting with familiarization of their spacecraft inside a full-scale Orion mockup at Johnson's Space Vehicle Mockup Facility.


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