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Author
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Topic: STS-1 / Columbia mission patch
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The Evelyonian
New Member Posts: 9
From: USA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 11-09-2005 03:40 PM
  
On the official STS-1 patch the (blast? fire?) under the shuttle fades from yellow to orange to red.On the STS-1 patch I have it just fades from yellow to red. Does this mean mine is a fake or just a different design? |
sts205cdr
Member Posts: 768
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 11-09-2005 06:05 PM
Your patch is what is called a "replica" patch (rather than a "fake"). These can be manufactured years after the mission and are usually less attractive in looks than the ones made for NASA (such as by A-B Emblem). Authentic and replica patches are about 4" in diameter. "Souvenir" versions are about 3" in diameter. Here's a good website for reference. |
KAPTEC
Member Posts: 666
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-11-2005 01:01 PM
I have the AB Emblem patch, buyed on STS-1 launch time... and fades yellow to red, without orange. And I'm sure that it is not a replica or a fake. |
sts205cdr
Member Posts: 768
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 11-12-2005 12:41 PM
Just as a follow up, I checked in Relics of the Space Race (1995, '98, 01 by Russell Still), which states: Moving into the Shuttle era, with the exception of STS-1, the evidence becomes stronger that A-B Emblems produced most, if not all, of the official mission patches......although bids were usually submitted by several companies for each flight, A-B Emblems got the patch contracts for all missions since the mid-80's. There is no mention of who might have produced an "official" STS-1 patch, nor are there any examples of the STS-1 patch in this edition. It does name Hanky Panky and Swiss Artex as two other companies that have produced Shuttle patches. |
Bill Hunt
Member Posts: 406
From: Irvine, CA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 11-12-2005 08:41 PM
While A-B Emblem patches are generally considered to be the "official" patches for the NASA missions, particularly in the Apollo era (and through to Skylab and the very early shuttle flights), astronauts would often wear both AB and non-AB patches. For STS-1, I've seen photos of Young and Crippen taken at different times over the years wearing both the AB and the Lion Bros patches. While it's probably safe (and best) to consider the AB patch as "official", the astronauts often used Lion Brothers patches (and patches of other manufacture) interchangeably with the AB on these early missions. |
Harald Kraenzel
Member Posts: 325
From: Dinslaken,Germany
Registered: Nov 2005
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posted 11-19-2005 04:12 PM
So far as I know the STS-1 patch was manufactured in three versions having two, three and four colored flames. The three flame version was made by Lion Brothers.I was told that there were a number of four colored patches which flew on board of Columbia during the STS-1 mission. I was able to collect more than 10 different STS-1 patch versions. |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1062
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 12-31-2005 12:35 PM
The original STS-1 patch, as worn by Young and Crippen had orange colored flame and readable "USA" on wing (Lion Brothers has just a black rectangle). |
KSCartist
Member Posts: 3119
From: Titusville, FL
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted 01-02-2006 09:32 AM
When I read this thread, I too pulled out my STS-1 patch and checked it. Like Jorge (KAPTEC) I also purchased it in 1981 from AB Emblem. It is the "two color" version yellow to red. When I want to double check accuracy I find the best way is to look at photographs of the astronauts on launch day. They show that they wore a patch known as the three color version (yellow-orange-red) which in my opinion more closely follows Bob McCall's artwork. So I guess I need to look for a new patch. I have found that A-B Emblem's quality suffered for a time. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 56962
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-02-2006 11:24 AM
I have an example of the "four color" flame STS-1 patch with 'USA' clearly readable on the wing of Columbia. It is much thinner than modern AB patches, or even early AB examples. The stitching is not as tight and the wax backing is much more flexible (though that may also be a result of its age). |
Voyager1975
Member Posts: 188
From:
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 01-29-2009 02:24 PM
It is my understanding that the STS-1 mission patch worn by Crippen and Young was not sold to the general public. Only made in limited quantities for the crew and some to be flown on the flight to give out to family, friends and co-workers by the crew after the mission was over. As stated by two people on this thread, they bought the AB Emblem patch in 1981 at the time of the launch and it was the two flame variation, like the ones AB Emblem manufactures to this day. So I am guessing that any four flame variations like the ones the crew wore were made by a different patch company and not AB Emblem. |
Harald Kraenzel
Member Posts: 325
From: Dinslaken,Germany
Registered: Nov 2005
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posted 01-29-2009 05:16 PM
To my knowledge the four flame variation also was made by AB Emblem.Please have a look at Chris Spain's "Crew Patches" page and here specially the one for STS-1. |
Voyager1975
Member Posts: 188
From:
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 01-29-2009 06:00 PM
Yes Exactly. AB Emblem made two variations, the four flame which was made for the crew and NASA and the two flame variant that they sold to the public. AB Emblem did not sell the four flame variant to the general public. Therefore, if there is a four flame version out there that someone may have then it must be from a different patch company and not AB Emblem. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 56962
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-29-2009 09:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Voyager1975:
Therefore, if there is a four flame version out there that someone may have then it must be from a different patch company and not AB Emblem.
Or, in the 28 years that have passed since STS-1's launch, the patches made for the crew and mission have entered the secondary market. I have had a chance since posting in 2006 to compare my STS-1 "four color" flame patch to one of the crew-sourced patches and they are identical. I have no reason to believe the patch I (and others) own is not an original. A good thing to keep in mind: 2,000 STS-1 patches flew on STS-1 and as best as I am aware, all of them were of the "four color" flame variety. |
andrewcli
Member Posts: 328
From: La Jolla, CA, USA
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 01-29-2009 09:31 PM
Like Robert said, over 2,000 crew patches were flown. Additionally, I am sure the crew gave out many to various friends and NASA employees. Again, these patches were not available to the public and people who do have them most likely got them on eBay or auctions from these same individuals. Chris Spain estimated that nine STS-1 crew patches were sold in 2008. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3224
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 01-30-2009 02:09 AM
Unflown examples of the 'crew' STS-1 version were sent out to a large number of space program workers (NASA and contractors) after the flight. I have no idea just how many of these letters were sent but I'd guess many thousands.AB Emblem were used by NASA or the crews to produce limited runs of special patches for other missions too. In most cases these runs were limited to a few hundred examples at most. The patches were delivered direct to NASA and never sold to the public. It's only over time that some of these patches have found their way from the collections of former space workers on to the secondary market. |
Voyager1975
Member Posts: 188
From:
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 01-30-2009 10:35 AM
Robert, Andrew and Chris, I totally agree with you guys. Very interesting stuff! That would all make perfect sense too because we do know that the originals were made by AB Emblem and they were all four flame variants. Also if you guys notice on the originals the space shuttle on the original patch has a white orbiter, and a gray external tank and gray twin solid rocket boosters. On the AB Emblem replica the (two flame version) as well as the three flame Lion Brothers patch not just the orbiter but the external tank and twin solid rocket boosters are all white. I noticed those differences as well not just in the number of flames between the original crew patch and the replicas. |
andrewcli
Member Posts: 328
From: La Jolla, CA, USA
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 01-30-2009 11:56 AM
You are right. I actually have two STS-1 crew patches with subtle changes in the thread color of the SRBs.I also remember Chris had a STS-1 patch that actually had a fifth color added (brown), just below the right main engine. By the way, it wasn't dirt, because I checked under the microscope. He concluded that this was an authentic "crew" patch, not a replica. But I do wonder if this is an error patch because the brown flame is not below the left main engine for symmetry.  I consider these examples as minor variants. Nonetheless, the STS-1 crew patches were still made by A-B Emblem even though there are subtle differences among them, whether it was deliberate or a different production run remains to be determined. |
Voyager1975
Member Posts: 188
From:
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 01-30-2009 12:18 PM
Andrew, I have never seen a five flame variant with the brown flames below the right main engine. Interesting, I would like to know more about that one. We obviously know that Crippen and Young wore the four flame patch that went from yellow to pale orange and two shades of red but no brown. |
Harald Kraenzel
Member Posts: 325
From: Dinslaken,Germany
Registered: Nov 2005
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posted 01-31-2009 02:40 PM
After reading the last entries for this post I looked through my flour flame patches and discovered one minor difference and I am not sure whether it is one or not.If you have a look at the above "brown" four flame patch you will see a "large US flag" on the left wing of the orbiter. If you look at Chris Spain's site you will see the same. If you have a look at the Heritage Auction where the patch John Young wears on board of Columbia during STS-1 is offered it looks to me that the US flag is a larger one also. I do have six four flame patches showing a small US flag and one showing a larger US flag. So I as asking myself whether there have been different runs or whether the stitching machines did work differently. Another minor difference these patches show is that the "smaller US flag" patches do have white thread for a lot of areas like f.e. the SRBs and the ET while the "large US flag" patch do have grey thread for these areas. Further on the blue features shown on earth are slightly darker for the "large US flag" patch while it is lighter for the "smaller US flag" patch. These differences for my point of view clearly support different runs of this kind of patches. |
Voyager1975
Member Posts: 188
From:
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 01-31-2009 02:48 PM
I don't think there are different variants of flags on wings in these patches it just looks like part of the stitching. In other words, the way the stitching came out. I think it was just the way the red threads were stitched by the machines. |
andrewcli
Member Posts: 328
From: La Jolla, CA, USA
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 01-31-2009 03:09 PM
Also remember that these patches are more than 28 years old. Depending if they were exposed to light or handling over the years, these factors could affect its color and wear on the threads. If they are different production runs, the batch to batch variation is very minor and one should not assume that one variant is the "real deal" over the others. On the other hand, this is not the case with the Apollo 12 "crew" MQF variant patches. |
Harald Kraenzel
Member Posts: 325
From: Dinslaken,Germany
Registered: Nov 2005
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posted 01-31-2009 03:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by andrewcli:
Depending if they were exposed to light or handling over the years, these factors could affect its color and wear on the threads.
OK, understand but the grey colored areas are not the result of wear. This is definately different colored thread. Just what I can see on my patch. quote:
Again, if they are different production runs, the batch to batch variation is very minor and one should not assume that one variant is the "real deal" over the others.
I was not thinking of a "real deal". I was just looking at my patches and detected different things which I described above. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 4079
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-31-2009 04:50 PM
One of my flown STS-1 patches that came from the crew only has the "yellow-to-red" exhaust or flame variety. My other STS-1 patches, from my own 1981 vintage-era collection, does indeed contain many different variations. Perhaps the most colorful crew patch from Columbia's maiden voyage is a framed one on my studio wall that was displayed along with a flown-used STS-1/Columbia brake disk segment. That particular cloth patch was produced by Rockwell's Space Division, prime contractor builder of the shuttle orbiter spaceplanes. |
Voyager1975
Member Posts: 188
From:
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 02-01-2009 09:03 AM
Robert Crippen and John Young flew two flame (yellow to red) STS-1 mission patches? That's news to me. Never heard of that before. |
aerospace educator
unregistered
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posted 02-01-2009 10:10 AM
Here are two images of Bob Crippen just prior to STS-1. The first (launch and entry suit) is from 19 March 1981, and the other (blue flight coveralls) is from 11 April 1981. I have included blow-up details of the patches he wore. They both look like the three-colour (red, orange, yellow) flame. Other details, such as the flag, are not clearly visible in these images. 
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Voyager1975
Member Posts: 188
From:
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 02-01-2009 10:31 AM
Those patches that they are wearing in the picture are the original four flame crew patch. It is just hard pick up the pale orange color from these photos. We have seen pictures of the actual patches that Crippen and Young wore. The patch is clearly the four flame variant. It goes from yellow to pale orange and a lighter red and lastly a darker red. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 4079
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-01-2009 01:12 PM
Just for the record, so-to-speak, one of my primary STS-1 flown patches, referred to in a prior post here, came from the crew signed by Young and Crippen as well.It was presented to the SRB launch processing team here at Kennedy. Mounted alongside the mission patch is a large 7+"x12" American flag, which is uncommon for a flown flag of this size. I just don't know if the reported 2,000 flown patches aboard STS-1 were all of the exact same production type and quality (Robert)? As with many prior spaceflight missions before STS-1, the astronaut office would receive a variety of different crew patches (i.e. from patch manufacturers like AB and Lions), but certainly not all of them that were used by the crews came from these embroidery companies. Others would come from major aerospace contractor companies that had close ties to their NASA agencies. What I do know for sure and feel quite confident with is the flown patch referred to here. It came from the astronaut office, awarded to a prime aerospace company team in 1981, and was hand-signed by both crewmembers; "This flag and crew patch were flown aboard the Space Shuttle "Columbia" (STS-1) April 12-14, 1981... With many thanks for your outstanding support of the first Space Shuttle launch." |
Harald Kraenzel
Member Posts: 325
From: Dinslaken,Germany
Registered: Nov 2005
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posted 02-01-2009 01:18 PM
I put together some different pictures/scans to show what I am talking of. Maybe I am right or not. If you see the patches placed side by side you can see the different sizes of the US flag more clearly. Click to enlarge. |
Voyager1975
Member Posts: 188
From:
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 02-01-2009 03:12 PM
Harald, I see what you mean. Maybe someone else has another take on it, but it still looks to me that the flags on the wings of the STS-1 patches is that it is just the way they came out by the machines stitching the threads rather than a different variant. I could be wrong though but that's just what I feel when I look at them. Does anyone have anymore information about the five flame variation (small brown flame underneath the right main engine). Do we know if they flew those types on the mission, if they were among the 2,000 patches flown? If it is an authentic crew patch and not I replica then I guess they did. |
Voyager1975
Member Posts: 188
From:
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 03-01-2009 10:11 AM
I recently got a hold of an original/early AB Emblem two-color flame version of the STS-1 mission patch that has a black stitched border (black stitching all around the edge of the white border). Does anyone know anything about this particular variant? Was there only a limited amount of these made? I believe they first put these out with the regular two-color flame white border when that came out in 1981 not sure though. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1729
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 03-02-2009 12:08 PM
The two original STS-1 AB Emblem patches that I acquired back in 1981 had the black stitched border. I got them from Stewart Aviation here in the U.K. Not sure who supplied Stewart Aviation but they were from the first batch they received from their suppliers in the U.S. |
dingpatch
New Member Posts: 2
From: Melbourne, FL, USA
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted 08-05-2013 06:49 PM
Greetings! I've just started to research all of my wife's and mine space flight memorabilia and found your excellent site! I grew up on the Space Coast and have lived in Brevard County since 1954. My father was a photographer for RCA at the Cape. My wife moved here in the early '70's and worked on the shuttle Program from the early days until about 1990.So, anyway, "First Up" was the STS-1 mission patch. My wife has the one that was given to the launch support team just prior to the mission. I've included scans of the front and back. The "globe" portion is 3 1/4 inches in diameter, and it is a "four color exhaust". The coloring is very hard to tell by looking at the front, but when you look at the back you can see where it changes from orange to red. On the front the coloring exiting the shuttle goes from white to yellow to orange on the left side, and starts on the right side as orange, and turns to red as it exits the white border of the globe. The coloring of the exhaust from the main/vertical shuttle is just as hard to discern. Without a close look, the flame goes from yellow to the two different shades of red; your eye looses the deeper yellow under the horizontal shuttle. I know that this is an old thread, but I hope that this helps.  
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Philip
Member Posts: 6424
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 08-25-2026 06:59 AM
The STS-1 mission logo was designed in 1979 by Robert McCall with input from John Young.The first time we saw the STS-1 mission logo as an actual patch worn on the suit was January 1981, as before it was only available as a waterproof sticker seen in December 1980? |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 1062
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 08-25-2026 02:49 PM
Most of the time-original AB Emblem patches I have seen that came from people working on the shuttle program, have this small black stitched outline.  |
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