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Author Topic:   Apollo 11 Flight Plan re-issue [Kickstarter]
Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-16-2016 01:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
collectSPACE
Apollo 11 flight plan for first moon landing getting crowdfunded re-issue

It was the minute-by-minute plan that put the first men on the moon in July 1969.

Now, almost 50 years later, NASA's Apollo 11 Flight Plan is being relaunched on Kickstarter as the "perfect" reprint.

"We've set out to produce the highest quality reproduction of the Apollo 11 manual that was used by Mission Control, astronauts and supporting personnel," wrote Reproduction IO, the Melbourne, Australia-based team behind the Apollo 11 Flight Plan Re-issue, on the crowdfunding website.

David C
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From: Lausanne
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posted 07-16-2016 03:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have an original, but one of these will protect it from me.

Philip
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posted 07-16-2016 04:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Worldwide shipment will be US $12.

The Apollo 11 mission patch binder cover will be offered and backers will be able to take part in a survey to determine two more possible covers.

Go4Launch
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From: Seminole, Fla.
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posted 07-17-2016 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Go4Launch   Click Here to Email Go4Launch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Offering a binder option with the NASA Logotype seems at odds with the stated "one goal - to recreate the 1969 Apollo 11 Final Flight Manual in the most accurate way possible," since the "worm" was only authorized from 1975-1992.

Robert Pearlman
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From: Houston, TX
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posted 07-17-2016 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The way I look at it, the original-issued flight plans didn't include a binder; they were stapled with a salmon-covered cover (which is included in the reproduction). So any binder is going to be an invention.

As Alistair Moorby of Reproduction IO replied to someone on Kickstarter:

Isn't the NASA worm logo incorrect for the Apollo era? The worm was introduced in 1975, six years after Apollo 11.

You're absolutely right, I just think the worm is the best logo they've ever had. The final production will have a number of covers to choose from, so it's entirely up to the backer if they would like the worm, the meatball or the Apollo 11 patch.

Rick Mulheirn
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posted 07-25-2016 12:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow. With 20 days still to go and 1330 plus backers, the Kickstarter campaign currently stands at $159K Australian dollars.

With that kind of pledge they could use gold leaf on the binding.

RobertB
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From: Israel
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posted 07-25-2016 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RobertB   Click Here to Email RobertB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So what do you guys say? Value for money or is this just paying for public domain documents?

Rick Mulheirn
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posted 07-25-2016 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Speaking as somebody who does not own an original Apollo 11 Flight Plan, and unable to justify a potential price tag of one or two thousand dollars to acquire an original... I consider a high quality replica for a fraction of the price value for money.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-25-2016 07:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RobertB:
Value for money or is this just paying for public domain documents?
If all you want is a copy of the flight plan to browse once and then never look at again, you can download NASA's PDF copy for free.

This project, as I understand it, is not a cleaned up scan, but a total recreation. Every page is being re-typeset, every chart recreated as vector graphics. So it's not just a reprint, but a reproduction, and that is what justifies the cost.

kyra
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From: Louisville CO US
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posted 07-30-2016 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kyra   Click Here to Email kyra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is no mention of the P&I (Pen & Ink) changes to the Final copy. In flight notes could also be added in as graphics. A replica of the flown and back version with a small reproduction watermark might be desireable to some.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 08-17-2016 12:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
4,100 backers pledged $533,333 AUD (about $406,666 US) to help bring this project to life.
We set out with the goal of finding 150 people to help fund the restoration project of the Apollo 11 Flight Plan, a modest goal we were hoping to meet. What we found were 4,100 individuals, making this project the 8th most funded publishing project on Kickstarter to date!

Robert Pearlman
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posted 08-19-2016 05:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you missed the window to pledge to the Kickstarter campaign and still desire a copy of the Apollo 11 flight plan re-issue, Reproduction IO is now taking additional pre-orders through Indiegogo.
Pre-Orders open until October 31st, 2016 - Shipping commencing December 1st, 2016.

Exclusive to the crowdfunding campaign, once November hits, this replica will no longer be offered for sale!

Rick Mulheirn
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From: England
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posted 08-19-2016 05:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Assuming the reproduction is as accurate and of the quality promised, what impact if any do other members think they will have on the value of originals as and when they come to market in the future?

nasamad
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posted 08-19-2016 08:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nasamad   Click Here to Email nasamad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think it will make any impact on the value of originals, it's collectors who buy the originals and they will always pay for originality. PDFs have been available for years of all the flight plans and that didn't impact values as far as I can tell.

For the curious browser pdfs are fine, for most space fans the reissue will be great, for collectors original is the holy grail.

David Carey
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posted 08-19-2016 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Carey   Click Here to Email David Carey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That sounds right to me. A superb replica (which this seems to be) might even broaden the base of interested collectors and increase prices for the original.

I'd guess overall strength of the market and collecting trends are the dominant factors affecting value of the real deal (along with condition, association, signatures, etc.).

crash
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From: West Sussex, England
Registered: Jan 2011

posted 01-20-2017 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for crash   Click Here to Email crash     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For anyone who has purchased the Flight Plan and hasn't read their emails, the plans are in the shipping phase. Make sure that you haven't deleted any emails from Kerry Logistics (like I did) as this is the tracking information. There has been a bit of confusion with delivery addresses but it seems to be resolved.

For UK recipients there is some not-so-good news and that is that they have decided to use Yodel for delivery. I wonder how long it will take, and how many will ever reach their destination.

crash
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From: West Sussex, England
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posted 01-24-2017 03:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for crash   Click Here to Email crash     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So far the feedback about the Flight Plans is mixed. It seems initially all looks good but on closer inspection things are not as they appear.

The promise of "foil printed" artwork and text on the binder has not materialised and either the images are different to the options offered or quite dark as they are printed on a blue background. In addition the promise of "mylar paper," which then became "reinforced paper" due to manufacturing issues, has failed to materialise and the pages are just regular paper.

Someone with eagle eyes has spotted an error on the abbreviation section but I suspect that that it is on the original. Some binders are turning up with the wrong artwork to what was ordered. Many have still not received any shipping emails even though yesterday was the deadline for shipping.

All the above is also being discussed on Indiegogo where it was also funded.

Meanwhile Alistair Moorby has failed to appear and give any explanation whatsoever or respond in any way to the many emails he is being sent.

Rick Mulheirn
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posted 01-25-2017 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Took delivery today of the Kickstarter Apollo 11 Flight Plan. I would probably sum it up as okay: not bad. I'd prefer to take a better look in natural day light to get a better appreciation.

A few observations - The binder and the box sleeve appear to be good quality and well made. But the Apollo 11 patch on both is disappointing. It appears flat and does not "pop"... as it appeared to on the Kickstarter launch page. With hindsight perhaps I should have gone with the white binder.

The image below is not a true reflection of how it appears in the flesh: it flatters the reality.

The pages appear very white and 'crash' was right: I think they have used bog standard paper with no signs of reinforcing as promised.

Overall, 7 out of 10. Good effort but not quite on the money. Certainly NOT what was promised.

But on the other hand, I don't have an original so would summarize as satisfied over all, if not enthused.

crash
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From: West Sussex, England
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posted 01-26-2017 06:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for crash   Click Here to Email crash     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have now received mine and I am thoroughly underwhelmed, disappointed and annoyed.

I'll echo Rick's comments about the image quality. It really is very dull, dark and not foil printed as promised. Not at all good.

The slipcase has the artwork and title printed on the wrong side which is actually highlighted in Rick's photo. Ideally you should place the slipcase on a shelf with the book spine at the back for protection. That's why they print on the spine of the slipcase so as to replicate the book and it's cover. The binder in Rick's photo is the wrong way around with the opening to the left.

The paper quality is not at all as promised and I could have printed it at home for far, far less on better paper.

The abbreviations section goes page iv, ix, v., vi, vii viii, x. If this a misprint then it's unforgiveable as it is so early in the Flight Plan. I would be curious to know if anyone out there has an original and it's in that too.

Not something to admire and it'll probably end up in a box fairly soon.

1202 Alarm
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posted 01-26-2017 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 1202 Alarm   Click Here to Email 1202 Alarm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From Kickstarter:
Each page will also be printed on reinforced paper to eliminate stretching or tearing.
Got mine this morning. If this is reinforced paper, I wonder what normal paper looks like. A bit disappointed too.

David Carey
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posted 01-26-2017 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Carey   Click Here to Email David Carey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by crash:
I would be curious to know if anyone out there has an original and it's in that too.
These errors are not in my original.

For reference, one of the better Apollo 11 Flight Plan scans I've seen is available on the Honeysuckle Creek tribute website as a downloadable PDF.

Ronpur
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Posts: 1253
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012

posted 01-26-2017 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From what I have read, no one in the US has even gotten a shipping notice yet. Has anyone here in the US gotten anything yet?

NASAgoob
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posted 01-26-2017 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NASAgoob   Click Here to Email NASAgoob     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nada.

RobertB
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posted 01-27-2017 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RobertB   Click Here to Email RobertB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll echo Rick's 7/10.

The whole point of the Kickstarter was to get a physical copy at a quality that would be difficult/too expensive to achieve by myself.

Having it printed on the same paper as I can easily obtain at any shop dilutes the experience considerably.

David C
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From: Lausanne
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posted 01-27-2017 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RobertB:
So what do you guys say? Value for money or is this just paying for public domain documents?
No sign of mine yet but it's beginning to sound like the latter. For me it's about the plan, not the slipcase and binder.

ringo67
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posted 01-29-2017 02:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ringo67   Click Here to Email ringo67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I live in Massachusetts and I have yet to receive any email regarding shipping. However, a backer form New Jersey posted on Facebook that he received his yesterday (1/28). And he's seeing the same quality issues that have been mentioned here.

Lightyear69
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posted 01-29-2017 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lightyear69   Click Here to Email Lightyear69     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have now received mine, I'm very disappointed. See posts from Crash and Rick Mulheirn!

I wrote an e-mail; still no answer!

Mike Dixon
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posted 01-29-2017 04:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glad I didn't sign up for it... that's just sloppy.

Andy Anderson
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posted 01-30-2017 02:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Andy Anderson   Click Here to Email Andy Anderson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Got mine a couple of days ago and it arrived in good shape although I live just down the road from Hong Kong from where it originated.

The whole thing was wrapped in light plastic but in hindsight it seems to me that it would have been better to have the printed plan also wrapped separately in plastic rather then inserted already into the folder and a bit more foam packing around all that and a more sturdy box may have helped with those where shipping damage has been an issue.

I found some of the dark blue covering material had come away inside the slip case but a bit of craft glue fixed that.

The issues with the dull and washed out detail of the Apollo 11 logo have been already discussed. Perhaps it would have been better not to have so many binder choices complicating this aspect of production and to have just concentrated on one.

To me this was always a "reprint" with additional features added by the project originator and not a historically accurate reprint of what was really a basic functional manual that was subject to constant revision and updating, some of it by hand in its final form.

So I suppose I cannot be too critical of things like the non-standard use of four binding holes rather than the usual NASA five hole arrangement for their 8 by 10.5 inch printed documents and manuals.

Also, the original plan did not have colored extended tab dividers but they are a nice feature for this project.

As it turns out, the "plain" paper has helped me with scanning and reprinting replacement pages for the out of order page sequence in the Abbreviation section at the beginning.

Equally, my copy had an oversized (8 1/2 inches wide instead of 8 inches) foldout at page 1-7, so that got reprinted as well.

Maybe an amendment can be issued and sent to the participants to at least replace these problem pages.

I have not found any real issue with turning the pages in my binder.

One thing I never understood was that once enough pledges were obtained to "Kickstart" the program and thereby fund it adequately, then why was there also not an upper limit to the number of participants to keep it within some limit of exclusivity or, in this case, with 4099 people eventually participating, you might have thought that economies of scale may have reduced the eventual price. I guess that is just the way KickStarter works.

Notwithstanding all of that, after "fixing" the few problems I had with my copy and lucky enough for it not to be damaged in transit, I am "mildly" happy with my copy.

Ronpur
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From: Brandon, Fl
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posted 01-30-2017 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I received mine this morning. I had no email either. I had wanted the Saturn V, but got the patch instead. I have not had a chance to open it and look through it yet.

Ronpur
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From: Brandon, Fl
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posted 01-30-2017 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Andy Anderson:
...you might have thought that economies of scale may have reduced the eventual price.
One thing I have noticed with the Kickstarters I have done, or a few of them anyway, is that they have stretch goals. If they go over their goal, there is a bonus reward. In this case, it was two sticker. Wow.

Ronpur
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From: Brandon, Fl
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posted 01-30-2017 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
After having a good look at this flight plan after work, I have mixed feeling. Very disappointed in the cover, not only because it is not the one I ordered, but because the patch just looks horrible. You can barely tell there is an eagle on it!

I doubt there is any chance I will ever get it replaced, because the project leaders have gone silent.

I am not too disappointed in the paper, but that maybe because I didn't even realize it was supposed to be re-enforced.

I compared the pages with the downloaded PDFs up thread and noticed many changes in the layout and what ends up on what page. This one seems like it has more pages in the sections than those PDF versions. And this one shows a date on Nov 68, those have May 69 in places. I will have to look more closely at this.

I doubt I would pledge for any other volumes that get made. Unless there is an adequate response to the issues with this one.

I hope the Voyager Record project turns out better!

quote:
Originally posted by Andy Anderson:
...reprinting replacement pages for the out of order page sequence in the Abbreviation section at the beginning.
Andy, could you share your scans so we could print out corrections?

Andy Anderson
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posted 01-31-2017 12:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Andy Anderson   Click Here to Email Andy Anderson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sure, I have put them in Dropbox, here, or send me an email and I can "post" them to you.

By the way, you will need a hole punch with 5/16 inch punches. I use a Swingline model but as the holes are wider than the punch, I had to punch the top two holes then turn the page over to punch the bottom two holes.

Ronpur
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From: Brandon, Fl
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posted 01-31-2017 09:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you!

David C
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posted 01-31-2017 10:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mine just arrived and I've had a chance to compare it to my original July 1, 1969 Final Apollo 11 Flight Plan.

Overall, this is not a replica (identical in all respects), but a modern reproduction. There are lots of tiny style differences - hole punching, less bold font, extended colored dividers, and for some reason, no pink back cover. Since I have an original, none of that bothers me except for the missing back cover. The last page is sure to get worn and damaged without it.

I'm swimming against the stream here, but the binder and slipcase are fine by me. The mission patch is dull compared to the advertised image on Kickstarter, but I actually prefer it. To me the bright patch would make it look like a school kid's folder. The pink sheets seem like they may be reinforced, the white are regular paper - not what was promised, but again, for me, not a problem.

Yes, some of the abbreviations pages have been printed out of order, replacements should be mailed out free of charge. Thankfully the 1-7 foldout has avoided punching through the diagrams. Section 3, the flight plan has what should be page 3-7 labeled as a second page 3-6. Quite a few section 3 pages (such as 3-65) are actually Revision A, July 8, 1969 not the basic final edition. For me this is a bonus, the nearer to the flight version the better.

Obviously I haven't read through each page in detail. I am concerned that more errors may have crept into the content. In that regard straight photocopies may have been better. I'd have liked to see more attention paid to getting the plan right than on fancy covers.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with mine but I do think it was overpriced.

kyra
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From: Louisville CO US
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posted 01-31-2017 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kyra   Click Here to Email kyra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On the idea of flight version being the best, I have been keeping scans and pictures of all the pages I could find that Buzz Aldrin has sold. Many pages had pen and ink (P&I) updates that were made my the MOD before launch in addition to crew made changes and notes.

While projects like these are a great idea in light of how much has fallen into the abyss, hopefully future projects will take the revision history into account with more proof checking. I would not suggest redoing or reformatting anything. All that would be proper is to clean up any stains and grey scale in the original proof and darkening, if needed, of the original text.

kyra
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posted 01-31-2017 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kyra   Click Here to Email kyra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by David Carey:
For reference, one of the better Apollo 11 Flight Plan scans I've seen is available on the Honeysuckle Creek tribute website...
Thank you David, this is a perfect scan. Also a huge thank you to Bryan Sullivan and Colin Mackellar. This is how to digitally preserve history!

NASAgoob
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From: Dallas, Texas, USA
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posted 01-31-2017 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NASAgoob   Click Here to Email NASAgoob     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Received mine today. No email notification, but happy to receive. Happy with product, but not the Saturn version selected.

I also hope the Voyager works out.

Modifying my comments. The stories on Kickstarter are ugly. I guess I will count my blessings.

Jonnyed
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From: Dumfries, VA, USA
Registered: Aug 2014

posted 01-31-2017 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jonnyed   Click Here to Email Jonnyed     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My copy of the Flight Plan arrived today and the notebook binder is a disaster. Two corners of the case are bashed in. The metal 4-ring binder has torn loose from the notebook cover and the rings are crushed together and overlapping.

The key sign that something was seriously wrong was when I first pulled the notebook from the case, the complete first section of pages fell to the floor in a heap.

Wow, what a mess of a product.

Ronpur
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Posts: 1253
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012

posted 01-31-2017 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NASAgoob:
The stories on Kickstarter are ugly. I guess I will count my blessings.
After reading those comments on Kickstarter, I do consider myself lucky to have gotten mine. With many people who ordered two receiving one and those who ordered one getting two, I don't know how they could ever fix this. If they even try.

They claimed in the last update that they had 300 saved to replaced damaged in shipping product. I hope that is true and it is enough.

Are the rest of the Apollo flight plans archived somewhere?


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