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Author
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Topic: Apollo 11 Flight Plan re-issue [Kickstarter]
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Andy Anderson
Member Posts: 110
From: Perth, Australia
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted 02-01-2017 01:50 AM
   
With reference to my previous post, I have added to the list of page corrections here in Dropbox if anyone wants to print their own replacement pages. The new pages fix the typo of 14,00 ft to 14,000 ft on page 3-i and a new page for page 3-50a that has been reported as being inserted with the binding holes on the wrong side although in my copy it looks correct with the "This Page Intentionally Left Blank" on the "odd" side and the Burn Chart on the "even"side. |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1253
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 02-01-2017 09:27 AM
I guess I need a different size paper to reprint these. My paper is too large. |
Andy Anderson
Member Posts: 110
From: Perth, Australia
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted 02-01-2017 06:32 PM
Yes... for reasons I never understood, NASA cropped down their printed material then used for printing manuals, reports, etc. to a slightly smaller size than the standard letter size.So you need to crop down from 8.5x11 inch to resize it at 8x10.5 inch unless you are in my part of the world where we use A4 size, 210x297 mm and then you need to get to 203x269 mm. Then, as was required for my copy, reprinting page 1-7 the foldout page, which should be 22x10.5 inches. Along with the hole punching, another complication in re-printing replacement pages. |
ringo67
Member Posts: 195
From: Seekonk, Mass., USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 02-05-2017 12:40 AM
I finally got my copy today in Massachusetts. I have to agree with what Rick and Andy said above regarding quality. I found the same printing issues that need to be corrected, as well. Also, as you can see below, although I ordered the Apollo 11 wordmark binder, I got the mission patch (not an uncommon occurrence, I understand). And as others have said, it photographs much better than it looks in real life. It is very muted. The only damage I saw to my copy was a rivet head that had broken off the bottom of the inside of the binder. Not a big problem, except that as it rolled around inside the binder it made some stray marks on the cover page. As you can see below.  Also, I don't know if anyone else has had this problem, but the binder won't close completely. I may have to put a weight on it for a bit to see if that will make it sit correctly. The photo below, show what it looks like out of the slipcase.  All-in-all, I was impressed, it looks nice. But I expected a little more for the price I paid. I wish I received the binder I ordered. Also I wish the actual flight plan printing was proofed better. I hope there's eventually some kind of update packet that will fix the printing problems. So, TLDR = this was good, but it could have been much better. |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1253
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 02-05-2017 09:24 AM
Yep, my binder stays open when not in the slipcase as well. It didn't have that problem when I opened it, but it does now.I really feel bad for those backers who are still missing copies or received damaged ones. I hope this guy does right and fixes their problems at least. Once I source a good paper, I will just print my own pages that are messed up. One of my Facebook friends is missing his fold out page completely. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3479
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 02-05-2017 12:55 PM
I wonder how long it will be before someone tries to sell one of these on eBay as an "original" Apollo 11 final flight plan? A bit of careful "distressing" in the form of crumpling, dog-ears, and even a few coffee-stains could age the document 48 years in the eyes of the unwary. Those of us "in the know" would spot the absence of staple holes and the presence of four, rather than five, binder holes, but there are probably some collectors with money who could be fooled. It might be an expensive mistake! |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3479
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 02-05-2017 01:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Andy Anderson:
...for reasons I never understood, NASA cropped down their printed material then used for printing manuals, reports, etc. to a slightly smaller size than the standard letter size
There seem to be exceptions to that rule. I have two Apollo 11 press kits. One is 8x10.5. The other, with two slightly corroded staples, double-sided printing and the unreproduceable "serrated spine" is 8.5x10.7. I also have an Apollo 13 press kit which certainly looks like an original document (the diagrams are too well printed to be a period copy) but the pages are 8.5x11. That begs the question: does anyone have an 8x10.5 Apollo 13 press kit? If so, why would NASA make two sizes? |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1253
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 02-06-2017 07:10 AM
A new update from the project says the shipping company knows who received incorrect orders, rather you got the wrong cover or too many or not enough. They say they will correct the errors, even if it means printing more copies to ship. |
Philip
Member Posts: 6150
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 02-07-2017 04:27 AM
So even more will end up on eBay... |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1253
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 02-15-2017 08:15 AM
I received an email from the logistics company today saying they are aware I received the wrong copy but they aren't going to fix it. Not what I wanted to hear. |
SpaceyInMN
Member Posts: 358
From: Andover, MN
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted 02-15-2017 09:39 AM
So, will they still be filling unfulfilled orders? My brother ordered a copy for himself and one for me. His showed up a week or two ago. There's no sign of mine so far. |
Davbrunson
Member Posts: 95
From: Dothan, Alabama USA
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted 02-15-2017 12:27 PM
Received my book at the end of last week. Mine really has no issues, other than the fact the cover is not what I requested. I received a rather lame email this morning stating that they had unfortunately shipped me the wrong cover, they apologize, but due to not having any other product, they can't fix it and have a nice day! I replied and told them how disappointed I was with the piece and made comparisons to the standards manual that Danne did, which was done very well. I asked them if they had ever done a multi-page print project before, because it sure doesn't look like it with the final product and all the bumbles they had with the process! |
Jonnyed
Member Posts: 563
From: Dumfries, VA, USA
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted 03-12-2017 08:14 PM
So have the publishers gone "radio silent" on everyone or just me? My binder was destroyed in shipping and I filled out the form for replacement several weeks ago but not a single word since then. Anyone hear anything from these guys recently?What a disappointing mess. |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1253
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 03-12-2017 10:25 PM
I haven't heard anything for weeks. Really sad. And Kickstarter is apparently set up so they have no responsibility and will do nothing to assist. |
neo1022
Member Posts: 319
From: Santa Monica, CA
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted 03-13-2017 02:01 AM
Too bad — it looked like a nice project, but they pulled a classic OPUD (over-promise, under-deliver). And they only had one thing to do right... In the meantime, download the Apollo 11 flight plan from the Honeysuckle Creek website. It's a hi-res scan, and pretty much the next best thing to a clean vintage original. |
crash
Member Posts: 340
From: West Sussex, England
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 03-13-2017 04:28 AM
As a supporter of this project I've been following the events, updates and comments and it is very evident that Alistair Moorby has "done a runner" (technical term). From the Kickstarter project and the other start-up website he gained a huge financial benefit and it is sad to see him do this. His last update, dated Feb. 2, 2017, was one of "Don't panic! All problems will be resolved." Well, this was quickly followed by supporters, who had missing items and/or wrong specifications, receiving emails that stated that what they had received so far was all they were going to get. This project started to fall apart as soon as he commenced production and must have realised that his promises could not be honoured. To get an idea of the upset and issues that he has caused a perusal of the 933 comments on the Kickstater site will give an idea. |
Mike Dixon
Member Posts: 1625
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003
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posted 03-13-2017 05:25 AM
If all that's true, "sad" would be the last term I'd use. |
nasamad
Member Posts: 2181
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 03-13-2017 12:02 PM
Sad to see what could have been a great success for its creators fall short of its promise for so many of its supporters.Although it's not often I'm glad I don't have as much spare money as I used to have, this time is one of them! |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3479
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-13-2017 02:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by crash:
...933 comments on the Kickstarter site will give an idea.
While not a victim of this debacle, I wait with interest for updates from the individuals who have indicated an intention to turn up on Mr Moorby's door-step. |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1253
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 03-14-2017 07:23 AM
Great news... I received an email with a shipping notice for this project today. I am happy to know that it was shipped two months ago and I received it on January 30!! How does a shipping company manage to screw things up so bad? Shipping notice sent out two months after shipping and after I received the wrong product! |
machbusterman
Member Posts: 1794
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004
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posted 03-14-2017 05:16 PM
Seems that Kickstarter also won't intervene? I feel sorry for all those that were deceived by this guy's promises. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 48697
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-14-2017 05:42 PM
Kickstarter and other crowd-funding sites are like a stock market for independent artists and inventors. Investors back projects based on their own research. Stock exchanges generally do not intervene if investors lose their money.As for this project, it is unfortunate that it wasn't able to live up to its promise. It wouldn't be the first project to run into problems because it became too successful on Kickstarter, if indeed that was the root of the problem. |
crash
Member Posts: 340
From: West Sussex, England
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 03-15-2017 04:28 AM
Robert, I think the way that this project differs slightly from the usual "investors risk" ones is that Alistair Moorby has continuously maintained throughout that it would meet all his promises. All his updates have been reassuring and telling people that it would all be right in the end even though he must have been fully aware very early on that it wasn't. When he saw that first batch of plans he must have realised that most of what he had tried to achieve, and promised, would not end up in the finished article and rather than being honest and admitting it he perpetuated the lie. This displays intent on his part which takes this project out of the usual "you win some, you lose some" projects. |
1202 Alarm
Member Posts: 465
From: Switzerland & France
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 03-15-2017 07:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Stock exchanges generally do not intervene if investors lose their money.
Hmm... In the stock market world, if you lose money due to a bad judgment in a honest stock, you are indeed alone. But, if the company did something wrong, gave false information to the investors, etc. the SEC, (and in other cases the SIPC or the FDIC) is mandated to help the victims against the fraud. In the Kickstarter world, sadly, they won't do much apparently. |
Jonnyed
Member Posts: 563
From: Dumfries, VA, USA
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted 07-02-2017 01:09 PM
Hey, apparently the project directors are making some attempt at redemption.I was just notified of a full refund from this group due to the destruction of my product in the mail and its arrival in pieces! While I would have preferred a notebook / flight plan in full optimal condition, the refund is a stab at good faith business ops. Hope the rest of the folks who suffered major disappointment here also get some compensation. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3479
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 06-30-2019 09:12 PM
I see that one of these reproduction flight plans has turned up on eBay with a starting price of $725 and a "buy it now" price of $900. The description says it came from an estate sale, so the seller has no history and cannot say whether it is original or not. |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1253
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 07-02-2019 07:30 AM
I see now he added that many have commented about the Kickstarter. But "After reviewing the options available from kickstarter, i don't believe the original owner bought it from that source of reproductions. the kickstarter options are very different on the binder and the construction." I think he needs to review it a bit better. |
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