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Author
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Topic: Spacecraft Films: Apollo 11 To The Moon
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mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 11-02-2012 11:49 AM
   
quote:
Originally posted by heng44:
...the only info that shows up is: 'electronic shipping info received'.
That message means your package has not yet been received by the US Postal Service for shipment. Anybody can obtain a tracking number for a package by going online, but the tracking number only provides useful information once the actual package has been received by the USPS. Once they receive the package, that will be noted under the item's shipping status.It's ultimately the responsibility of the vendor to make certain the USPS receives the package. |
PeterO
Member Posts: 399
From: North Carolina
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 11-02-2012 12:10 PM
More specifically, it means that Spacecraft Films has gone online to either the USPS, PayPal or various other USPS contractors, created a shipping label and paid the postage. It also means that it has not been scanned by the USPS yet. Hence the USPS knows the label exists, and is expecting it to be mailed sometime.Once the package has been picked up by the mail carrier or taken to the PO, the package will be scanned, and the tracking information may be updated. It's important to understand that USPS Delivery Confirmation is not real-time tracking. It is designed only to provide confirmation that an item has been delivered, and any other updates before delivery are a bonus. |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 11-02-2012 12:30 PM
Ed, also bear in mind that the USPS is recycling old tracking numbers as new ones cannot be created- run out of numbering possibilities with the existing system. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 11-02-2012 01:33 PM
It's possible that numbers get recycled after they have been used up, but with the USPS using 9-20 digit tracking numbers (depending on the type of delivery and tracking service ordered), it would likely take several years to cycle through the numbers. |
PeterO
Member Posts: 399
From: North Carolina
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 11-02-2012 06:08 PM
It's much too soon for the number to have been recycled. However, the number becomes inactive some number of days after the last scan event. At that point, if you attempt to track the number, it generates an error. I'm not sure if this happens to numbers that have not yet been mailed. |
heng44
Member Posts: 3386
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 12-18-2012 01:48 PM
Although I did not order the Apollo 11 set (yet), there is good news from Spacecraft Films in that I received the Shuttle 51J through STS-28 set that I ordered 18 months ago. I was notified that it was shipped on September 27, so it took almost three months to reach The Netherlands by first class international mail. I call that second rate international mail. But not the fault of Spacecraft Films. |
Saturn V
Member Posts: 176
From: Golden, Colorado, USA
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted 12-31-2012 11:29 AM
Hey Ed, did you ever receive your package? It would be interesting to know how long it took. This information could be applied to any shipment from SF to determine an actual delivery date after you get the message from them that the package had been made ready for shipment. |
NJSPACEFAN
Member Posts: 128
From: Ocala, FL USA
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 12-31-2012 04:33 PM
Okay, it's been nearly four months since the Apollo 11 To The Moon was announced as beginning to be shipped. Has anyone to date received a copy? |
heng44
Member Posts: 3386
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 01-01-2013 02:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Saturn V:
Hey Ed, did you ever receive your package? It would be interesting to know how long it took.
I believe I gave that info in the post above yours...  |
Saturn V
Member Posts: 176
From: Golden, Colorado, USA
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted 01-02-2013 11:51 AM
Ah, that makes more sense! I thought it was a different DVD. I have ordered some stuff from SF in the past two months and got decent delivery times on those items so SF must be working on getting stuff out for pre-orders still. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 02-01-2013 07:11 PM
We're coming up on six months since Mark Gray said these sets started shipping. Have any collectSPACE members received their copies yet? If so, I'd like to see a review of this set if anyone has time to share their thoughts. |
paulus humungus
Member Posts: 400
From: Burton, Derbyshire, England
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 02-02-2013 04:50 AM
I love Spacecraft Films and what they do. Mark's products are amazing. I have pretty much everything that they have brought out but this delivery system is exceedingly frustrating for the buyer. This is the problem... I desperately want to buy "Apollo 11 to the Moon" and also "The Cape" but until I start to see people here saying that they are starting to receive their copies then I am not going to place my orders. How many pre-orders could there have been for it to be taking this long? |
mama04
Member Posts: 151
From: Haarlem, N-H, Netherlands
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 02-04-2013 05:48 AM
I agree with the last post, Mark's products are amazing and I too have every single set they ever produced. That said, I have decided to cancel my remaining three pre-orders (The Cape, Apollo-11 and the Space Shuttle set) and ask for a full refund because frankly I have given up hope of receiving them any time soon. The Space Shuttle set has been in pre-order since 2007 which is kind of ridiculous. When these sets do come available I might order them but will decide then.Mark has offered me a refund before and I am sure he will honor my request now. |
alanh_7
Member Posts: 1252
From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 02-04-2013 08:31 AM
Just a question: I have been interested in ordering from Spacecraft Films but from reading this thread have hesitated to do so. Are there problems with delivery on all of the products or just issues with those on pre-order or are there problems with delivery of items listed in stock as well?I would like to order a few items but I am reluctant to do so. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2474
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 02-04-2013 11:11 AM
I too have wanted to order some items but based on this thread I have been buying what I can from other sources such as eBay. |
OLDIE
Member Posts: 267
From: Portsmouth, England
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 02-04-2013 01:28 PM
I've not spoken up before, but I ordered some DVDs last April. I got the DVDs in June, but was double charged. I'm still awaiting a refund (despite reminders) but I'm not holding my breath! |
mikej
Member Posts: 481
From: Germantown, WI USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 02-04-2013 06:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by alanh_7:
Are there problems with delivery on all of the products or just issues with those on pre-order or are there problems with delivery of items listed in stock as well?
I pre-ordered a set about a month before it was to have been released. After many months (maybe over a year?), its status was changed from "pre-order" to "in stock," so I expected to receive it after a short while. I didn't receive it, and I emailed every two to three months, always receiving a "you'll have your set soon" type reply. Sixteen months after it was supposedly shipping, I asked for a refund. This, too, took several rounds of emails (and I only received a refund for the cost of the set, not the shipping charges).Take your pick as to whether you want to call that a problem with "pre-order" or "in-stock" merchandise. |
alanh_7
Member Posts: 1252
From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 02-04-2013 06:43 PM
Your point is well taken, sad to have to go to third party like eBay but at least I will get the DVDs in a reasonable time. Thanks for the information. |
Greggy_D
Member Posts: 977
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 02-04-2013 08:10 PM
I'm really surprised this type of behavior (by a vendor) is tolerated. It is completely unacceptable, in my opinion, to charge and keep a payment for an indefinite time period before delivering a product (and in some cases the product is not delivered). |
the clocks running
Member Posts: 382
From: Rochester, NY
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 02-04-2013 08:21 PM
In 2009 I ordered a DVD set from Spacecraft Films that was not yet released and changed my order to an in-stock title without any problem. The gentleman that owns the company also refunded the difference in the form of a check for the difference that I was due. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3118
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 02-04-2013 08:42 PM
I think it's time for a lot of people on this site to wake up and smell the coffee. The Ohio BBB Business Review has some illuminating observations about Spacecraft Films, to which they give an "F" rating (on a scale from A+ to F). The Review notes: "The address the firm is using...is that of the UPS Store, a mail receiving and forwarding service. BBB does not know where the firm is physically located. BBB urges customers to use extreme caution when choosing whether to do business with a firm whose location is unknown." |
Lasv3
Member Posts: 410
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted 02-05-2013 12:44 AM
I did not want to enter this thread again as I broke all my relationship with Spacecraft Films (SF) three years ago when I asked for the refund of my orders of Apollo 11, Cape and Space Shuttle. The truth is I got it (the refund) very quickly. However, I fully agree with the Blackarrow's call for "wake up" — there must be some very serious trouble with the SF and to take the money in 2007 (and 2006 in case of Apollo 11) and not to deliver till today is absolutely unacceptable and a way to the business suicide.SF — in my opinion — is using the Pre-order money to finance their backlog which must be growing every day. As it was said by somebody here already this system can be understood in a way, however, the clients must know the full truth. Everything would be OK if you would not have to pay in advance — and wait then for years. SF does not understand this basic behaviour and thinks the clients are the fools. The example is the creation of the "Shipping the pre-orders" category in case of the Apollo 11 set. I think the set is simply not available yet — somebody would have reported the receipt already after six months, I do not have other explanation. It's a kind of the message created by purpose after six years of collecting money from pre-orders to silence the growing criticism for not delivering. The product is either In Stock or it is not. To close this post two things. First — SF existing products are excellent. Second — I advise not to pay a cent for the pre-orders unless you accept that "soon" may mean a very long waiting. |
Jurg Bolli
Member Posts: 977
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 02-05-2013 10:42 AM
I have not had anything to do with SF, I agree that the product itself is fabulous, but I will never deal with them directly!This is really bad business practice. |
SCE to AUX
Member Posts: 245
From: Anytown USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 02-26-2013 11:59 AM
OK, so everyone feels the same and the Ohio Better Business gives SCF an "F". What can be done? Consumer advocate?...legal? |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 02-26-2013 02:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jurg Bolli:
This is really bad business practice.
Or the owner(s) do not need to sell DVDs to make a living; it's just something they do on the sideline. |
pollux
Member Posts: 54
From: London, England
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 02-26-2013 03:38 PM
Poor business practice perhaps. But this thread seems to be extrapolating the delays from one or two products as representing the behaviour of SCF as a whole. I see several posts, here and elsewhere, that say they have ordered DVDs recently and received them promptly. Not the behaviour of a company that is "cutting and running".
Let's not forget two things here - 1) this is a *very* niche market, and 2) SCF appears to be a one man band. I know that I'm not going to get this material from anywhere else, and when I do get it, it is always outstanding. Sure, I've waited in the past for my goods to turn up. In fact I'm not sure that I have ever received them in the timeframe initially advised. But they've always been worth the wait.Without wishing to open up the whole "my order is older than your order" debate again, let's just say that I'm being ultra patient. I would dearly love to have the "To the Moon" set in my hands, I don't want to lose the money I've paid to SCF. But on the other hand my life won't end if I don't receive the goods. I don't spend my waking hours thinking about whether or not it has arrived yet. These are, after all, luxury goods. I know that we're not going to get this material from anyone else. What I would hate to see happen is for Mark to get the impression that it just isn't worth the aggro he's getting from those who don't want to play the game, and just give up producing new material. I may be wide of the mark with the general feeling, but I felt I had to put in my two penn'th. |
Whendall
New Member Posts: 2
From: Peterborough, UK
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted 02-27-2013 12:39 PM
I'm in agreement with Pollux. I have pre-orders waiting and I have pre-orders waiting with similar companies and organisations who produce for a small market. I am willing to bet that there isn't a fortune to be made from producing these sets but there is a massive amount of work involved. Frustrating though delays and waits may be, without SF we would have little of this material in generally lousy quality and pay over the odds for it. We should be grateful for what they have done so far. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 02-27-2013 03:09 PM
For what it's worth, I have an item on pre-order as well... but I remain firmly in the "in-support-of-Mark-and-Spacecraft-Films" camp.Please note that the "Spacecraft Films Blog" is updated pretty much once a week (usually), and sometimes more-so. It's not like SF is a fly-by-night company that suddenly disappeared with our hard-earned money. Mark is still out there plugging away, doing something which few people have the talent for and basically no one else has the passion for: preserving these old films for future generations. Just my 2 cents' worth... |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3118
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 02-28-2013 03:37 PM
Do you understand the concept of "stringing people along", otherwise known as "telling people what they want to hear"?Six months after "I've started shipping pre-orders..." not one cS member has reported receiving a copy of "Apollo 11: To the Moon." Just my two pence worth... |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 02-28-2013 06:41 PM
Yes, I am familiar with the term. I do not think it applies in this case. I think Mark reports overly optimistic estimates for releasing products, and then inevitable delays occur thereby resulting in not meeting those estimates. Many companies believe in "under-promising and over-performing", or creating lowered expectations so that, when those expectations are exceeded, customers are pleased. SF has never done this practice -- I cannot speak for Mark, but I think he is giving a good faith effort to get products out as soon as possible but the process is complicated and the "work force" is, of course, understaffed as a mostly one-man operation. The fact remains that Mark's products have never failed (in my memory) to meet or exceed customer expectations. If timeliness is an issue, then my recommendation would be to either (1) only buy in stock DVDs, or (2) buy the DVDs from a reseller or the secondary market. As I said, I feel your pain -- I too am waiting on the To the Moon set, and I have had delays in ordering even in stock items... still, with patience and perseverance, I have always received what I paid for. If you expect SF to operate in the same manner as Time-Life or some other large company, then your expectations are likely unrealistic. I just hope that all the negativity does not influence Mark to throw in the towel -- that would be a loss for the space community, and it would be a loss to future generations who might not be able to benefit from video that in the future has deteriorated to the point where it is unusable. So, my second 2 cents worth is... let he who has contributed more than Mark to the preservation of space history cast the first stone. |
Saturn V
Member Posts: 176
From: Golden, Colorado, USA
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted 03-01-2013 10:14 AM
I have no bad feelings with Mark. He has created wonderful products and does, as most people say, deliver the products eventually.But I am having trouble with people bashing other forum members for asking for information about their order for this particular product offering from SCF. I do have to say that if a company adopts an "over promising and under performing" business model problems will occur with its customers. And you can't just blow those customers off that complain about non-delivery as someone who "does not want to play the game" because when they bought the product there was no indication that there was a game to play - it does not state this on the SCF website. I think the best thing to do would be to put right on the SCF website a disclaimer that some products may take years before pre-orders will ship. This way everyone who does put their money down on a future product have nothing to complain about. Sure there are order shipping mix ups but that happens with all companies and is usually only a small fraction of the orders. This particulaer problem that has some people upset, in my opinion, can easily be avoided. The SCF website when you go to it looks like any other business. People assume that behind that website there are secretaries, computer technicians, shipping personel, and so on and therefore expect the company to act just like any other big firm. You place your order, you expect a product. If it says coming soon, you expect coming soon, not coming years from now (and BTW, years from now is not coming soon in anyones dictionary). Additionally, you have no way of knowing that it is a one man operation from what you see on the website. So maybe Mark made a mistake by stating it was coming soon and it did not work out that way. Maybe the company learns from that mistake and doesn't do it again. The first time is okay as long as you get out there in front of your customers and say you made that mistake and here is what you are going to do to fix it. That seems very simple and common sense to me. It certainly would make this forum thread a lot shorter. And that my friends is my 2 cents. |
Dennis Beatty
Member Posts: 356
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 03-01-2013 09:40 PM
Unlike those willing to wait years for products which were supposed to be "coming soon", I finally cancelled my backorders and, after numerous phone calls and emails, finally received my refund. I did NOT however, receive replacements for discs which were obviously damaged prior to shipment. Also, I never received a reply to my numerous inquiries regarding my desire to return the first set of Space Shuttle discs which "burned" rather than "pressed". (The SCF website made no mention of this inferior manufacturing process for this set.)Though out all of the discussion above, I keep asking myself "Where is Mark?" He could put an end to most of the speculation and bad feelings if he would just update us as to the (honest) status of the unreleased products. For those that justify the endless delays by stating "where else are we going to get this content", I see it from the other perspective: If Mark and SCF continue to disappoint those of us here, who is he going to sell his product to? Yes, there will always be some minor interest from the general public for Apollo 11 and other "firsts" ...but besides us, how many folks really want to purchase the "Project Gemini Flight Controller Orientation" disc? |
SpaceDust
Member Posts: 115
From: Louisville, Ky USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 03-02-2013 10:21 AM
Slightly off topic, but as of March 1st, Mark is now streaming SCF DVDs at $79.99 a year on spacehistory.tv. At the price I would rather have the DVDs. |
TLI
Member Posts: 31
From: London, UK
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 03-04-2013 09:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis Beatty:
Also, I never received a reply to my numerous inquiries regarding my desire to return the first set of Space Shuttle discs which "burned" rather than "pressed".
Are they really burned instead of pressed? If so then that is of concern!I recently received both shuttle sets and have noticed a marked drop in the products physical quality. The paper sleeve seems to have been printed on a basic home inkjet printer, but worse, the discs have printer paper stick on labels which I'm not convinced will fair well with repeated plays. I've had trouble with these before. The material on the discs is first rate as usual but the physical quality no longer matches it. Mark! What are you doing? |
alanh_7
Member Posts: 1252
From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 03-04-2013 09:44 AM
Sadly this thread as turned me off of ever ordering from Spacecraft Films directly. I think the product is great but having read this subject over the last few years have opted for eBay as my source for what they do. |
Dennis Beatty
Member Posts: 356
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 03-04-2013 09:23 PM
Hello "TLI"... Yes, my set of discs (STS-1 to STS-41B) is comprised of "burned" discs. Kind of like how I feel about the transaction. Fortunately, the Apollo discs were all pressed! |
paulushumungus
Member Posts: 466
From: Burton, Derbyshire, England
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 03-05-2013 01:37 PM
I have purchased many items from Spacecraft Films over the years and all of the sets were properly printed with pressed discs however the last set which I purchased about 12 months ago was as described above - ink jet covers and burned discs. I wasn't happy but I just decided to live with it because it was the last of the Apollo sets which I needed (Apollo 17 set). Is this what we are meant to expect from now on? |
garymilgrom
Member Posts: 1966
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 03-05-2013 02:27 PM
1) How can you tell the difference between burned and pressed disks?2) Why does it matter? I thought a digital copy was indistinguishable no matter how it was made. Thank you. |
Dennis Beatty
Member Posts: 356
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 03-05-2013 10:17 PM
The difference between "pressed" discs and "burned" discs boils down to longevity. If taken care of with even reasonable care, a pressed disc will, according to accelerated aging tests, possibly last 100 years or so... while a burned disc may last as little as 2-5 years. It depends upon a variety of variables: brand of blank disc, brand of drive used to burn the disc, temperature, humidity, etc. Basically, SCF has cheapened its product line by using "burned" discs. While good for the company (printing on demand reduces up front expenditures and carrying costs) we, the customer (and wannabe archivists) are shortchanged. |
TLI
Member Posts: 31
From: London, UK
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 03-06-2013 01:38 AM
Dennis is correct, burned discs have greatly reduced lifespan (depending how their cared for) but that lifespan will be even further reduced because of the use of paper stick on labels which damage the top coating of the disc (which the laser needs to read) and can also unbalance the disc in the drive. Believe me, these discs will probably be unplayable within 5 years! |
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