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Topic: Charles Lindbergh's attendance at Apollo 8 launch
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LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-16-2014 07:09 PM
Aviation pioneer Charles Lindbergh was at the Cape to see the Apollo 8 launch, and he visited with the crew at the crew quarters prior to launch. Was he at the launch day breakfast? Is that Charles Lindbergh at far right in this Apollo 8 pre-launch breakfast photo? |
golddog Member Posts: 210 From: australia Registered: Feb 2008
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posted 02-17-2014 02:13 AM
It looks to me like it could be Dr. Robert Gilruth - I found a reference that indicates George Low was there but there was no mention of Lindbergh being present at the breakfast, I can't be sure. |
Headshot Member Posts: 864 From: Vancouver, WA, USA Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 02-17-2014 07:02 AM
One possible source would be the Public Affairs Officer countdown transcripts. Attendees at the pre-launch breakfast are almost always enumerated by PAO during his running commentary of the countdown. NASA has all the PAO transcripts online for Gemini, but I do not know if they have them online for Apollo. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-17-2014 10:35 AM
Great suggestion. The PAO pre-launch commentary does mention on page 10/1 that the guests at the breakfast included George Low, Deke Slayton, Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Jack Schmitt.I don't think that is a complete list of those who were at the breakfast because the man in question still is not identified. It sure looks like Lindbergh to me. |
randy Member Posts: 2176 From: West Jordan, Utah USA Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 02-17-2014 11:15 AM
In response to the question posed by LM-12, I also don't think it's Lindbergh. The caption to the picture says "mission officials" (NASA EP-66) and doesn't mention Lindbergh. |
Headshot Member Posts: 864 From: Vancouver, WA, USA Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 02-17-2014 12:17 PM
A further comment on the PAO countdown transcripts.During at least one Gemini countdown the PAO listed the participants for the pre-launch breakfast only to amend the list 15-20 minutes later in the countdown. I surmised that the first listing were the planned participants and the second listing were the actual participants. |
collocation Member Posts: 383 From: McLean, VA, USA Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 02-17-2014 04:07 PM
May have been covered, but did Lindbergh attend any of the other Apollo launches? |
Fra Mauro Member Posts: 1587 From: Bethpage, N.Y. Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 02-17-2014 04:28 PM
He was invited to the Apollo 11 launch but didn't go. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-17-2014 04:49 PM
For comparison, here is a photo of Charles Lindbergh with the Apollo 7 and Apollo 8 crews in the White House. The photo is dated 3 December 1968. |
J.L Member Posts: 674 From: Bloomington, Illinois, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted 02-17-2014 06:10 PM
The gentleman at the far right is this picture is Hal Collins of KSC. He basically ran the Crew Training Building. I am not aware of any photos that show Lindbergh at the launch. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-17-2014 06:29 PM
Lindbergh apparently avoided the cameras and forewent viewing the Apollo launch from the VIP site. Instead, the aviator and his wife watched the Saturn V lift off from a nearby sand dune.Interestingly, the Guardian quoted Jim Lovell in 2008 as having been with Charles Lindbergh for the Apollo 11 launch. I sat beside Charles Lindbergh at the launch of Apollo 11. "It's a great event," he said, "but you know you were the ones who really spearheaded the moon programme". |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-18-2014 12:20 PM
The 12 July 2002 issue of Spaceport News has an article about VIP visits to KSC and mentions Apollo 8: In December 1968, just days before the launch of Apollo 8 - the first lunar orbital flight with the three-man crew of Frank Borman, James Lovell Jr. and William Anders - Buckley recalls getting a phone call from Borman with a request: "He asked me to take care of a dignitary who was coming to KSC and give him a low-key visit." Then Buckley learned who the dignitary was - Charles Lindbergh. "He talked a lot about his own historic flight," said Buckley. Only 41 years had passed since Lindbergh's solo airplane crossing of the Atlantic, and now three men were poised to cross the sky and circle the moon. Lindbergh and Buckley later joined the Apollo 8 crew at their traditional pre-launch meal Dec. 21, 1968. (Charles Buckley was Chief of Security at KSC) |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-20-2014 02:36 AM
James Hansen mentions in First Man that on the night before the launch, backup CDR Neil Armstrong took Charles Lindbergh out to see Apollo 8 on the pad.How amazing is that? |
YankeeClipper Member Posts: 617 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Mar 2011
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posted 02-21-2014 12:43 PM
Robert Zimmerman wrote in Genesis: The Story of Apollo 8:Marilyn Lovell and her children had been picked up by a NASA official before dawn and driven to an isolated sand dune on the beach, only three miles from the launchpad...Also on the sand dune sat Charles and Anne Lindbergh. Two days earlier they had visited the astronauts for a pleasant afternoon lunch. The astronauts, about to join the ranks of pioneers like Lindbergh, sat in delight as he described his flight across the ocean. Later he talked about the time he had met Robert Goddard, the inventor of the liquid fueled rocket and the father of American rocketry. Everyone laughed when Lindbergh described how Goddard thought he could have designed a rocket to reach the moon, though 'unfortunately it might cost as much as a million dollars.' The 1960s American space program, whose sole goal was to send a man to the moon, cost approximately twenty-five thousand times more. Lindbergh himself was filled with wonder at what the astronauts were doing. At one point in the evening he calculated that in the first second of the Saturn 5's flight, it would burn 'ten times more fuel than I did all the way to Paris'. Several months later, Anne Lindbergh wrote about this short afternoon meeting with the astronauts. In 2013, I asked Apollo 8 backup CMP Buzz Aldrin if he remembered the lunch, but he wasn't able to add more detail than that written in the book. Apollo 8 backup LMP Fred Haise said that he didn't attend the lunch as he was busy setting up the CM and running checks. |
YankeeClipper Member Posts: 617 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Mar 2011
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posted 02-21-2014 01:23 PM
In 2012, RR Auction sold a business card belonging to Charlie Duke on which he had obtained the autographs of Charles Lindbergh and the crew of Apollo 8, while in the Apollo 11 launch VIP viewing area.The card is documented here and in this 2009 cS post. Charlie remembered him as a distinguished gentleman but he didn't converse much with him. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-21-2014 09:47 PM
Marilyn Lovell and her children had been picked up by a NASA official before dawn and driven to an isolated sand dune on the beach, only three miles from the launchpad ... Also on the sand dune sat Charles and Anne Lindbergh. Perhaps that was near the secluded Astronaut beach house south of pad 41.Interesting details about that pre-launch lunch. What a prized possession that autographed business card would be! |
YankeeClipper Member Posts: 617 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Mar 2011
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posted 02-21-2014 11:48 PM
quote: Originally posted by LM-12: Perhaps that was near the secluded Astronaut beach house south of pad 41.
The Lovells are seen here and here on the beach during the Apollo 8 launch. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-22-2014 11:01 AM
Looks like a different location.Charlie Duke started his first shift as Apollo 11 CapCom in Houston about six hours after watching the launch from the VIP viewing area at KSC. |
dabolton Member Posts: 419 From: Seneca, IL, US Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 02-22-2014 01:03 PM
Would they shoot straight across the gulf in their trainer jets? |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-25-2014 10:45 AM
Charlie Duke only mentions in Moonwalker that he flew back to Houston immediately after the Apollo 11 launch.Anne Morrow Lindbergh wrote about the Apollo 8 launch in the February 28, 1969 issue of LIFE magazine. |
Cozmosis22 Member Posts: 968 From: Texas * Earth Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 02-25-2014 11:06 AM
quote: Originally posted by dabolton: Would they shoot straight across the gulf in their trainer jets?
Oh heck yeah! That way they could hit Mach speed and not "bother" people on the ground. |
LM1 Member Posts: 667 From: New York, NY Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-26-2014 02:37 PM
I uploaded the image and enhanced it. In my opinion it is not Charles Lindbergh. However, at the Apollo 12 pre-launch breakfast a year later, Ham the space-chimp can be seen eying Alan Bean's steak & eggs - |
BA002 Member Posts: 175 From: Utrecht,NL Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 03-14-2014 02:03 PM
Thanks to this thread I am now the proud owner of a Lindbergh signed photo of the Spirit of St Louis. Following YankeeClipper's link to Charlie Duke's signed business card I noticed a link to an online auction and I just couldn't resist. Thank you, collectSPACE and YankeeClipper. |
YankeeClipper Member Posts: 617 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Mar 2011
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posted 03-15-2014 09:05 AM
Glad I could help (even if indirectly). Congrats on your new Lindbergh piece! |
Pop Top New Member Posts: 1 From: Titusville, FL USA Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 03-28-2015 06:42 AM
You are correct, that is Hal Collins in the upper right. He was in charge of the Flight Crew Quarters in the O&C Building. Lindbergh's visit was low key and when he visited the Flight Crew Training Building there were no photographers tagging along. I gave him and his wife a briefing on the training simulators with the help of Neil Armstrong who was training that day. He and his wife signed our Guest Book. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-28-2015 07:20 AM
Thank you for those details. Always interesting to hear how it was from people who were actually there. |
J.L Member Posts: 674 From: Bloomington, Illinois, USA Registered: May 2005
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posted 03-29-2015 03:38 PM
quote: Originally posted by LM1: ...Ham the space-chimp can be seen eying Alan Bean's steak & eggs.
Bean is talking with Jim McDivitt. |
YankeeClipper Member Posts: 617 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Mar 2011
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posted 07-29-2015 10:49 AM
quote: Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: Interestingly, the Guardian quoted Jim Lovell in 2008 as having been with Charles Lindbergh for the Apollo 11 launch.
On a related note, the Chicago Tribune quoted Alan Shepard in 1991 as also being with Charles Lindbergh for the Apollo 11 launch.Despite all his airborne experiences, Shepard said the highlight of his career came on the ground, when he and childhood hero Charles Lindbergh talked shop while awaiting the launch of Apollo 11 at Cape Canaveral, Florida. "I would say that was the most exciting moment of my life," he said. |
moonguyron Member Posts: 191 From: Trinity, FL USA Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 07-29-2015 12:12 PM
On a related note, I have before me an ad for Ryan Flying School of San Diego, from "Aero Digest", Sept. 1929. In the ad it mentions the head of Ryan Aircraft as T. Claude Ryan. It was this company that built Lindbergh's aircraft. This same Claude Ryan attends the launch of Apollo 11 as a guest in the VIP section of launch control. Turns out his company is responsible for the landing radar on the Lunar Module. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 07-29-2015 09:46 PM
Shepard was born before the famous Lindbergh flight. The Apollo 11 astronauts were born after. |
Jonnyed Member Posts: 396 From: Dumfries, VA, USA Registered: Aug 2014
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posted 07-29-2015 10:14 PM
Additionally, what's really fun to think about is if Orville Wright (d.1948) could have held on for another two decades (he would have been about 97 years old), he could have seen history move from what he and his brother accomplished at Kitty Hawk in 1903 to landing on the moon in 1969. Mindboggling — 66 years is all it took. Now Orville would have been a hell of a VIP at the Apollo 11 launch. The image of the Wright brothers' flying machine morphing to a Saturn V is thrilling. I digress and imagine too much though, back to Lindbergh. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3208 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 07-29-2015 10:31 PM
The Apollo 11 mission was 42 years after the Lindbergh flight. Hard to believe it has been 46 years since the Apollo 11 mission. |