|
Author
|
Topic: "Mr. Inside" (George Abbey profile in Air&Space)
|
Fra Mauro
Member Posts: 1587
From: Bethpage, N.Y.
Registered: Jul 2002
|
posted 07-20-2011 07:11 AM
   
I think there was a sense that Deke has outlived his usefulness after ASTP. That plus his health issues after the mission, pretty much ended any chance of a Shuttle. All in all, Deke did a good job for that era. Let's not be Monday morning OBs here.In general, I thought Abbey had way too much control over the Astronaut Office. |
Delta7
Member Posts: 1505
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007
|
posted 07-20-2011 07:46 AM
Regarding Deke's purported opposition to the recruitment of women and minorities into the astronaut corps, my strong guess is that he was opposed to selecting them for the sake of selecting them, rather than having them in the corps per se. In other words, don't use the fact that a candidate is a woman or minority as a criterion; just pick the best people qualified and let the chips fall where they may. He probably had no desire to engage in "social engineering", as NASA and the Air Force were pressured to do in the Ed Dwight case back in 1963. Slayton was simply a no-nonsense manager and a product of his environment, and such efforts to him were simply outside the area of getting the task done in all likelihood.As for flying the Shuttle, I do remember reading an interview with him back in the late 70s where he said he considered it an option, but at the time he was focused on getting STS-1 off the ground. I always presumed it would have been as a Mission Specialist considering his age and the fact that he had been flying a desk for quite a while, but I could've been wrong. |
Skylon
Member Posts: 274
From:
Registered: Sep 2010
|
posted 07-20-2011 09:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by billshap:
Did Deke have any realistic shot at flying an early Shuttle mission? Once he got cleared for flight and flew ASTP, he surely had enough gravitas--seniority and flight experience--to move into the top echelon of potential Shuttle CDRs. Did he want to? If so, did he push for it?
He did, but it quickly became clear nobody was interested in assigning him to a flight. As I noted earlier, Slayton sacrificed his political power in regards to crew selection when he stepped down as FCO Director. Abbey also seems like he was more interested in getting the younger astronauts space flight experience, as they would be around longer. They were the long term investment in the Astronaut Office. I also wouldn't say there was a sense Slayton "outlived his usefulness" after ASTP. While he wasn't in FCOD, Slayton was given two of the most important jobs in the manned spaceflight business after ASTP - managing the ALT program and later OFT. Those weren't simple, "make work for a former astronaut" jobs. Maybe there was a sense of "we gave this guy his spaceflight...he really thinks at his age he should get another?" Michael's probably right that Slayton didn't want to return to FCOD after ASTP - working those programs would give him a great first-hand familiarity with the shuttle and was much more challenging work than running an Astronaut Office with no flights to assign people to. I just find it telling that it appears nobody even offered it back to him. On a final note, when Slayton did go, it was after STS-2...along with Chris Kraft and I'm pretty sure Max Faget. The fallout with NASA HQ after that mission is another story that begs to be delved into, as it is, in essence, the end of the old guard. |
Fra Mauro
Member Posts: 1587
From: Bethpage, N.Y.
Registered: Jul 2002
|
posted 07-20-2011 12:25 PM
Outlived his usefullness--not what I really meant. I think the new people at NASA were glad to see the Apollo generation of astronauts and managers move on. Maybe it was working in their shadow or feeling that that era of space exploration was over. It's a little like now where if you are an Apollo veteran who disagrees with the direction of spaceflight, you are seen as anachronism by some. |
Michael Cassutt
Member Posts: 358
From: Studio City CA USA
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted 07-20-2011 01:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Skylon:
I just find it telling that it appears nobody even offered it back to him.
I don't. By the time he left the job, he'd been doing it for eleven years. And he resigned it; there was no interim or acting chief of FCOD -- Deke was moving on. quote:
On a final note, when Slayton did go, it was after STS-2...along with Chris Kraft and I'm pretty sure Max Faget. The fallout with NASA HQ after that mission is another story that begs to be delved into, as it is, in essence, the end of the old guard.
Slayton and Faget -- among others -- left because of a quirk in civil service retirement rules at that time: they could retire in 1981, collect retirement pay, but still serve at NASA as "annuitants" or something like that, on a year-to-year basis. (Kraft's situation was different, I believe. He was planning to retire and turn over the JSC directorship to Lunney, but got crosswise with incoming administrator Beggs, who essentially forced Kraft out, spiked any chance of Lunney succeeding him, and brought Gerry Griffin in as director.) Deke wanted to fly again as a Shuttle CDR, and remained current on the T-38 until the day he left NASA. (He had zero interest in flying as an MS.) But he did not fly the STA, as far as I know... and got no encouragement from Kraft or Abbey about a possible return to active status (again, a fairly unlikely move in those days), so, seeing the end of OFT, he packed it in. |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
|
posted 07-20-2011 03:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Cassutt:
Deke wanted to fly again as a Shuttle CDR, and remained current on the T-38 until the day he left NASA.
The photo of Deke Slayton as a shuttle-era astronaut is quite evocative of what might gave been - people forget that, unlike John Glenn who came back, Deke was there for every NASA manned program there has been to date. Given the interesting discussion here, I'm suspecting Michael might be asked back to a future Spacefest to give his George Abbey talk again, this time with a much longer Q+A time!  |
DJS
Member Posts: 23
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2011
|
posted 07-20-2011 09:18 PM
Did Alan Bean have a realistic shot at a shuttle flight? I know that he stayed in the astronaut office up till and including the early Space Shuttle Era. I also know that he quit to become an artist and he is a great one. Was he assigned to a flight at the time he quit? Or was he about to be? He definitely deserved a Shuttle flight if he wanted it. |
Fra Mauro
Member Posts: 1587
From: Bethpage, N.Y.
Registered: Jul 2002
|
posted 07-21-2011 06:20 AM
I remember reading or hearing Bean say that he could have beeen on an early shuttle mission but he had already decided to move on. |
Delta7
Member Posts: 1505
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007
|
posted 07-21-2011 10:42 AM
I read somewhere that Bean was in line to command STS-9/Spacelab 1.I also remember a TV interview with him back in the 70s where he said "I've been an Astronaut for (over a decade) and have flown twice. As a Shuttle pilot I'll be flying 3 times a year." This was around the time that the 1978 class had been selected. |
DJS
Member Posts: 23
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2011
|
posted 07-21-2011 12:00 PM
I am surprised that Bean was not assigned to one of the first 4 shuttle flights. It made sense that John Young was on the first, since he was a member of the next nine. It seems to me that Bean should have commanded either STS-2 or one of the orbital test flights. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
|
posted 07-21-2011 12:13 PM
Except that when Young was training for STS-1, Bean had Young's job in the astronaut office. They would have needed to find someone to take Bean's place. |
Skylon
Member Posts: 274
From:
Registered: Sep 2010
|
posted 07-21-2011 03:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DJS:
I am surprised that Bean was not assigned to one of the first 4 shuttle flights. It made sense that John Young was on the first, since he was a member of the next nine. It seems to me that Bean should have commanded either STS-2 or one of the orbital test flights.
As noted, Bean was running the Astronaut Office while Young was in training. Also, as far as STS-2 goes, I think everyone wanted to give Joe Engle his shot. I'd read there was talk if Bean was to command a flight it would have been STS-9/Spacelab 1. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
|
posted 07-23-2011 08:33 AM
If Deke wanted to fly or had a shot of flying one of the OFTs, then why didn't he have a portrait done in the OFT spacesuit? Granted, having such a photo done is not definitive (such as Crippen in an Apollo spacesuit), but like Holmquest or Engle in an Apollo spacesuit, can be indictive of the intentions.(Conversely, or whatever the word is, why did Allen, Lenoir and Musgrave have such a photo? Was STS-5 originally going to fly with them?) |
Skylon
Member Posts: 274
From:
Registered: Sep 2010
|
posted 07-23-2011 03:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
If Deke wanted to fly or had a shot of flying one of the OFTs, then why didn't he have a portrait done in the OFT spacesuit?
Slayton never had any plans to fly an OFT, which I know of. He was the program manager and in no position to fly an OFT while he held that job - plus the OFT crews were announced and in training. He probably hoped to snag an "operational" flight.
|
carmelo
Member Posts: 1047
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004
|
posted 03-17-2015 08:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Skylon:
Ed White - Deke may have soured on him
Why? quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
If Deke wanted to fly or had a shot of flying one of the OFTs, then why didn't he have a portrait done in the OFT spacesuit?
I think because the decision of switch from pressure suit to flight suit were not yet taken at the moment of these photos (1979-80 circa).
|
advertisement