Posts: 238
From: Ohio
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 06-16-2011 01:38 PM               

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Take the term "underappreciated" as you will, but in my mind I was thinking of those whose work and/or contributions may not get the recognition they earned or deserved.

Among the general public, I would nominate Jim McDivitt and Tom Stafford as those with little to no name recognition who really should be better known. Neither one of them moon walkers (which is the main problem), but both commanded missions that were arguably make-or-break for the first moon landing, or at least for it occurring when it did.

More to the point, though, how about "underappreciated" even among those of us who consider themselves space program devotees? There the name that kept coming up for me was Jack Swigert. Not only did he have to step into a new crew just days before launch (which had to automatically lead to an enormous amount of pressure to perform, even beyond the norm), but he then had to help handle the emergency of Apollo 13. Sure, the LM did a lot of the "work" to get them home, but without the command module (Swigert's central responsibility) they don't make it in the end. He may have only made one flight, but it was a doozy.

So, anyone else have any other names to put out there?

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Posts: 1618
From: Gardner, KS, USA
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posted 06-16-2011 02:09 PM               

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I wouldn't think Jack Swigert would make the list. Not even close. Keep in mind that the Apollo 13 movie overdramatized Swigert's change and how the astronauts felt about it. Swigert would have flown on ASTP would he not have been caught in the middle of the cover/stamp scandal NASA went through in the 1970s.

To answer your question, I would say that Walt Cunningham got the low end of the deal. Sure he didn't don a helmet during reentry and had issues during flight, but he still did a fine job and deserved a second flight. He is also a great ambassador to spaceflight and deserved to have at least gone to the moon.

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Posts: 244
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 06-16-2011 04:21 PM            

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Rusty Schweickart, who put in as much of the ground work for testing the LM as McDivitt, carried off a successful flight, and was then willing to become a post-flight test subject to investigate space sickness, in circumstances where Borman had downplayed his own sickness on Apollo 8(recognising that "downplayed" may be too emotive a word). It would seem that this took Rusty out of the rotation, and saw him fall from favour, where if he had stayed "in favour" and in the rotation he could conceivably have lined up for, say, Apollo 15 as Dave Scott's LMP, and walked on the Moon.

And then he got relegated to backup duties on Skylab.

Definitely one of the most under-appreciated of the Group 3 astronauts, and indeed the whole astronaut group in the 1960s.

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Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
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posted 06-16-2011 06:21 PM               

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The most underappreciated astronaut is a title that could be shared by a couple hundred of the men and women who flew on the space shuttle...who never got to partake in the glory of the Mercury-Gemini-Apollo years...but still made great contributions to our space program.

The way I see it, all of the M-G-A guys are well-appreciated (some more than others, of course).

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Posts: 1597
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 06-16-2011 09:37 PM               

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Wow... I never realized that the Skylab crews were not presented the Ambassadors of Exploration Award.

Anyone know how that was decided?

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posted 06-17-2011 07:08 AM               

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Don Lind, Bruce McCandless and Joe Engle from the "Original 19," the astronauts chosen in April 1966.

Engle was bumped from his expected Apollo 17 LMP spot in favor of geologist Jack Schmitt and then again lost out when Apollo 18 was cancelled. He did fly shuttle ALT flights and commanded STS-2 but missed a chance at an Apollo or Skylab mission.

McCandless and Lind were not selected for Apollo flight assignments and had to wait many years for shuttle missions. One veteran astronaut told me that this was because they were not test pilots. During the M-G-A days, test pilots definitely ruled the roost in the Astronaut Office.

Posts: 1252
From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2008

posted 06-17-2011 07:23 AM               

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I would vote in order

Ron Evans
Karl Bo Bobko

Evans did a great job as the CM Pilot for Apollo 17 but seems to be that 'unknown' of the crew because he did not walk on the moon.

Bob Bobko not only flew three missions on the shuttle but his support work on various programs included the Skylab Smeat Program and as Prime Chase pilot and capcom on ALT program. He also worked support for ASTP and STS1

Bobko seems to be one of the many unheralded crews in the space program that did much of the behind the scenes work with little fanfare.

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From: Houston, TX
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posted 06-17-2011 03:47 PM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by dogcrew5369:
I appreciate their upcoming sacrifice.

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I would hesitate to call working and living aboard the International Space Station a sacrifice. There are nearly three dozen Americans, many of whom launched and/or landed on a non-U.S. vehicle, who I am quite sure would balk at the idea that their expeditions were a hardship.

Likewise, I can think of many more Americans who would jump at the chance to do what Group 20 is about to get the opportunity to do.

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Posts: 946
From: Washington, IL
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posted 06-18-2011 06:48 AM               

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I would have to say Joe Engle and Jack Lousma. It would have been neat to see Joe Engle walk on the moon with Gene Cernan during Apollo 17, and after all the training, to get bumped from the flight?

I think Jack Lousma also would of have been a great person to walk on the moon! Jack is one of the nicest people you will ever meet. A true class act! Both of these fine gentleman have had excellent careers in the military and at NASA! It would have been really neat to see these two guys walked on the surface of the Moon.

Posts: 750
From: Statesville, NC
Registered: Mar 2009

posted 06-18-2011 10:20 AM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
I would hesitate to call working and living aboard the International Space Station a sacrifice.

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I didn't mean they sacrifice as if it was a hardship being an astronaut. The context I was putting it into involves the state of our space program right now. They will be the class that doesn't know how it will feel to lift off from Cape Canaveral or even land in our own hemisphere.

I would go through it all to be an astronaut just like any of them would do it over again.

I'm comparing them to the classes before. They all knew they had or would have an American rocket to ride. Class 20 will be veterans before they even have the hope of riding from the Cape again.

I think future space historians will under-appreciate them since they won't be riding an American rocket... at least not for a long time. While they're flying to the ISS the media will be talking about our lack of capability and I'm afraid they will be lost on the public like so many shuttle astronauts have been. Hope this doesn't happen, but it probably will.

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
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posted 06-18-2011 10:35 AM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by dogcrew5369:
Class 20 will be veterans before they even have the hope of riding from the Cape again.

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Not to stray too far off topic, but since the first Class 20 member won't be flying until late 2013, most of the group's members won't make their first flight until after U.S. commercial flights are targeted to begin operating (2015-2018).

In which case, they very well could become the first to fly a new vehicle, an envious position for any astronaut and one that could put many of them in the spotlight.

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posted 06-20-2011 11:37 AM               

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Certainly, the point about the shuttle and ISS crews resonates as a response. Unlike those of a generation who sat glued to the television to watch the smallest details of the M-G-A missions, the shuttle program has gone largely unnoticed except when a problem arises. Few can name the crew of any given mission, let alone details about their role in a mission, while the crew and role of any Apollo mission were known to many.

That said, somewhat in keeping with more of the responses, I would nominate John Young. His commitment to the program was and is staggering. The variety and depth of his accomplishments with NASA leave most in the dust. If testing and disproving theories is as important as confirming, then the mission of Apollo 16 was critical to our knowledge of the Moon, yet it is viewed as a bit of a failure.

Posts: 2331
From: Sturgeon Bay, WI
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-20-2011 04:15 PM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by dogcrew5369:
Thanks for seeing the glass as half full.

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I have to admire that quality in Robert. I think most of us (me included) have a pretty bitter attitude about all the upcoming changes in the program. But Robert keeps his "glass half full" and I think we have to admire that in our fearless leader of collectSPACE!

Anyway, back on topic.

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posted 06-21-2011 11:25 PM               

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For Apollo, my vote goes to Stu Roosa. He was chosen as part of Al Shepherd's crew (referred to as the "retread and the two rookies" in some circles) to fly as CM pilot and did a great job, such as will the LM docking that didn't go quite right when the probe wouldn't lock in right. After that mission, he stayed at NASA and was backup CM pilot for Apollos 16 and 17. He didn't grouse about moving on, he didn't complain, he did the job and did it well. If he had stayed around NASA, I think he would have been a great shuttle commander.

Any number of shuttle and or ISS astronauts could fit the underappreciated title. For my choice, a classic example might be Don Petit, the "ubernerd". Most think of him as a scientist and just a nerd while not a macho pilot like the astronauts of old. But to me, this guy to me is Mr. Wizard in orbit! His mind is always working, he comes up with great ideas for stuff and is thinking four or five steps ahead of others. Plus, he tends to be the "go to" guy at NASA for some things. Apparently when the ISS had its problem with redeploying the snagged solar array on Expedition 16, Don was part of the team that came up with the "cufflink" fix used on the spacewalk. He came up with the construction video for the on-orbit crew to follow in building the things. Other things he has done include his water science studies on orbit, taping three CD players together to make a gyro-stabilized flashlight holder in zero Gee, and using the IMAX camera mount and a power drill to act as a camera tracker for taking some very nice photos of cities at night on the ground. In his personal flight kit, he usually uses that space to fly stuff for his science experiments as opposed to flying just trinkets. There are a lot of things that Don Petit has done which people don't hear about. I am glad he is going back to the ISS November on Soyuz as I can't wait to see what interesting discoveries he will make up there this time.