posted 07-29-2008 10:51 PM               

• #378 - Neil Armstrong
  
• #380 - Neil Armstrong

posted 07-30-2008 09:56 AM               

Program booklet from the Southwest Missouri Teachers’ Association... the caption says "Colonel Neil Armstrong"

When was Neil Armstrong (a Navy Veteran) ever a Colonel?

posted 07-31-2008 04:34 PM               

Personally I would be careful because at best, they look like atypical autographs, if they're authentic. Unfortunately RR hasn't found anyone with Scott's expertise to replace him.

posted 07-31-2008 08:37 PM               

Thanks for the posting.

I know that other experts, like you, were asked to authenticate, but that none accepted the position, until Scott took the job at RR.

Let's face it, there are only a few people as experienced in the field as you are and nobody is offering a 3rd party authentication service, that is seriously respected.

That being said, people like you, Scott, Tahir, Robert, Bob M., Gerry, Kim, Jimmy Brown, Donnis and a couple of others are the experts. The rest of us have to rely on people like you or take a chance that a piece is authentic.

While you and others offer COA's, they're only issued when an item is bought from you (them). Unfortunately the only respected expert who used to issue a 3rd party COA was Scott Cornish.

The major problem is that the vast majority of collectors can be easily fooled by a good forgery, as evidenced by so many fraudulent autographs being sold at the auctions and on Ebay.

When I see you and others having to correct 20-30-40 auction lots from Superior or Aurora, that gives me pause from trusting anyone that sells something, without having been seen by an expert.

When prices are reaching levels they're currently at, this is no longer a "hobby", it's an investment. The only way to protect that investment, is to have a bulletproof COA from someone like Scott Cornish, Kim, Gerry, Bob or you.

posted 07-31-2008 10:23 PM               

But first, I did accept R&R's invitation to work as their space authenticator in 2004--their first in space material--in which 3rd party COAs were issued by the auction company that I signed off on (so Scott wasn't the first, but that isn't so important).

Secondly, there are truly no "experts" in this kind of work, based on my belief.

There are still many auction companies that offer COAs, and some with 3rd/+ COA parties, that mean very little to me. There are even major well-known auction firms today, still ... that are issuing authenticating COAs with multiple "expert" examiners for known autopen and extremely atypical signatures. One such authenticating service even charges a fee for their ironclad or bulletproof certificates of authenticity. How could this be? Yet it happens all the time.

The best I can do in a situation like this, Ray, is to provide a COA that comes with a life-time guarantee of authenticity based on my examination, no matter of whom the owner is.

I've only had one such instance in nearly 30 years of doing business that involved an expensive autograph piece in which the buyer of it, after having it for a few years, wanted an exchange refund with no questions asked. It was done, simple as that, and with no hard feelings. In fact he's still a collector friend and good client.

posted 08-01-2008 12:31 AM               

I wasn't seriously collecting in 2004, the UACC Burbank show being the first time I had met an astronaut and I didn't know you were the 1st space material authenticator for RR, so my apologies.

That being said, I disagree with you that there are no experts in this field. When someone like you, who has seen thousands of Armstrong autographs, says something is authentic, I can spend my money without fear of buying a forgery. I know if I buy something with your COA, I have no fear in buying something or in years to come, selling the item with 100% assurance that it's an authentic piece.

I always read how the major experts say "oh this is just my opinion" or "this is only my opinion", well to the average collector who hasn't seen thousands of autographs, your opinion makes you the expert. I understand it's also a CYA situation where you need to protect yourself if you've made a mistake. Mistakes happen, but I would take your word, Scott Cornish, Kim, Gerry, Bob M, Robert, Jimmy Brown's word over the likes of any other 3rd party "expert".

When I see Scott Cornish spending many hours & days researching and comparing hundreds of Armstrong autographs, then catching extremely well done forgeries submitted for auction, that were previously sold at authentic, he's an expert. I've seen Armstrong autographs that I would have bet my sons life were a forgery, only to have Scott tell me that it was a beautiful example of an authentic autograph.

I know of 6-8 Armstrong and Apollo 11 crew signed pieces that came with Florian Noller COA's that were extremely well done forgeries. To Florians credit, he refunded the buyers money, but still, the level of expertise in ID'ing these beautiful forgeries, rests with a few people like you.

I hate to jump on the PSA bashing bandwagon, but if they're the cutting edge of a 3rd party authenticator, I think anyone would be foolish to buy anything with their COA. IMHO, I think all of the auction houses should be running their material through a 3rd party expert, because all it does is increase their bottom line and increases their customer confidence in what's being sold. Just look at the decrease in sales RR has suffered since Scott was fired by them.

I'm in shock everytime I read your post detailing all of the AP's, preprints, secretary and forged autographs that are in the various auction catalogs. To their credit, most of the auction houses remove the items that are not authentic, but if it wasn't for the "experts" pointing out the bad pieces, there would be plenty of buyers wasting their money, but for you protecting them. Are you sure you don't have a big S on your chest ???

As prices start to reach levels thought impossible only a few years ago, experts like you, Scott, Kim, Gerry, Bob M and others will take a central role in protecting the average collector. Let's also not forget that in order to develop and protect the next generation of collectors, you and the others will be the only ones able to help them ID what is and what is not authentic. Like the astronauts themselves, your knowledge and expertise goes with you.

posted 08-01-2008 04:54 AM               

Just as important (but maybe impractical) would be for R&R to include some words of provenance where possible and, as a consignor myself, I would have no problem if they disclosed that I was a consignor of a specific item (not that it would necessarily add much weight!).

An "opinion" may provide general indicative guidance on the more obvious fakes, but one man's "atypical" (with its cS-derived negative undertones) may be another's "variation."

posted 08-01-2008 05:53 AM               

I think we can all agree that Ken would qualify as an expert in the field, as would others that I've mentioned before. I also agree that most of us would not mind if we were ID'd as the consignor of an item we sent to auction.

However, I'm not worried about those who deal on the up & up, I'm worried about those who happily prey upon the average collector from the shadows. I know for a fact there are items being sent in for auction that are forgeries. It seems that a few auction houses don't screen their material very well, which doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the average buyer.

Hence the need for someone like Ken, Scott, et al, who can guide the average collector through the minefield of forgeries, that is growing with the increase of prices.

posted 08-05-2008 07:20 AM               

BTW, Bob Eaton sent my purchase to Scott a couple of days ago and he said he had a problem with it. Bob than offered to have FedEx pick the item up and give me money back/store credit.

posted 08-05-2008 10:53 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randal:
Bob also informed me that Scott will be back with R&R for September's catalog.

---

posted 08-05-2008 03:51 PM               

Also, the policy to accept a return with Scott's advice and refund is an outstanding buisness practice!

I may list some of my good items with them this fall after he comes on board again!

By the way, he and Bob McLeod have provided me outstanding advice on signed covers.

That is why this is the Best web site in Space!!!

Woody