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  Heritage March 2008 Air & Space Auction (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Heritage March 2008 Air & Space Auction
lunareagle
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posted 11-21-2007 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunareagle   Click Here to Email lunareagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As a follow up to the great success of its inaugural Air & Space auction this past September, Heritage Auction Galleries will be bringing the Spring 2008 Air & Space Auction this coming March.

As all of you who had participated in the first auction already know, the Heritage auctions are First Class and will strive to bring collectors the absolute best material available. Catalogues and descriptions are top-notch and are delivered well in advance of the sale allowing bidders to carefully examine the offerings.

I have been involved in or a participant in almost every auction in this venue since the mid 1990s and would encourage everyone to save up for what is shaping up to be one of the greatest of them all.

Also, for those who have not seen it, check out the new cable channel, Auction Network . If you check out Video On Demand and right click the top arrow until you reach the Collectibles Heading in the lower right box, you can watch the highlights of the first Heritage Air & Space Auction.

4allmankind
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posted 11-22-2007 09:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 4allmankind   Click Here to Email 4allmankind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those movies were great. It was nice to see some video of the better items.

Hopefully space collectibles expert Terry King will see them as well!

Jay

Russ Still
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posted 11-22-2007 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ Still   Click Here to Email Russ Still     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, well done. I enjoyed watching.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-27-2008 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Heritage has set Tuesday, March 25 through Wednesday, March 26 for their 2008 Grand Format Air & Space Auction (Auction #6000).

According to their website, proxy bidding will begin on March 6.

rjurek349
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posted 02-16-2008 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rjurek349   Click Here to Email rjurek349     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My gosh - has anyone been watching the Heritage site and the lots that are up already for the sale???? Wowza! This is going to be one of the best auctions ever, with high end material that will make your eyes pop out of your head. It looks like they are only a third of the way done with posting auctions, and already I want to second mortgage the house, sell the kids, and go to the blood bank. Some amazing material to say the least. This will set the bar for auctions to come...and prices as well, I think.

poofacio
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posted 02-16-2008 03:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for poofacio   Click Here to Email poofacio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now that is what you call an auction!!!!!!

spaced out
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posted 02-16-2008 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Amazing stuff, but my only hope of buying anything in it has gone out the window now that Poofacio has seen the preview.

Rick Mulheirn
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posted 02-16-2008 06:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stunning hardware items. Makes me realize just how much I need a lottery win!

Regards,
Rick

mensax
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posted 02-20-2008 06:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mensax   Click Here to Email mensax     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Without a doubt this sale has set a benchmark that no other space memorabilia sale has ever come close to achieving. I am simply amazed... overwhelmed might be a better word... at the quality and quantity of the offerings. The catalog alone could very well become a collectible in the future.

Noah

benguttery
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From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
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posted 02-21-2008 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for benguttery   Click Here to Email benguttery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I may indeed be selling one of the kids prior to this auction.

stsmithva
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posted 02-22-2008 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for stsmithva   Click Here to Email stsmithva     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Their first sale had more top-quality autograph items, but the hardware in this sale is the best I have seen (not that I've been around as long as most collectors). The LM cue cards from Apollo 16 and 17, the sunglasses, flashlight, scissors, pliers... all quite fine. But the Apollo 14 lunar scoop is extraordinary. An actual tool used on the moon's surface, connected with one of the more famous episodes of moonwalking (golf shot), presented by one moonwalker (the first American in space) to a future moonwalker (the last of the Apollo program) with iron-clad provenance. Yes please!

Steve

rchappel
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posted 02-22-2008 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rchappel   Click Here to Email rchappel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As a medallion collector, I am particularly curious how the prices of Robbins and Fliteline medallions will fare in this auction. On one hand, there are some great ones in the auction (Flown A17 for instance) and prices have been really high for these things recently. On the other hand this is a LOT of quality Robbins for one auction and I'll be curious if there's enough demand for that many medallions to keep prices all their prices up.

mikeh
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posted 02-23-2008 12:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mikeh   Click Here to Email mikeh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow. This is almost overwhelming! What a treat just to see such wonderful items. So many incredible things. Amazing!

To all of you experienced guys out there, please let us newbies know if you see any potential red flags on any of the signed items.

Thanks!

Scott
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posted 02-23-2008 06:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FYI I have not been able to review all the autographed items in this upcoming auction. There does appear to be a very small number of autopens. From what I have seen, the only suspect American space program item (IMO) is a Wernher von Braun signed cover. I will write Heritage to have it removed.

atpowell
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posted 02-27-2008 08:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for atpowell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is a truly amazing auction! I'm a fledgling collector and have been drooling over the large number of flown items in this auction. A question for the experts out there - with so many "higher end" flown artifacts - do you think that some prices may be more reasonable (only so many collectors with so much money out there?) Most auctions lately have had only a few quality flown artifacts that a number of people bid over and thus commanded hefty premiums. Just curious.

Thanks!
- Albrecht

mensax
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posted 02-28-2008 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mensax   Click Here to Email mensax     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"...with so many "higher end" flown artifacts - do you think that some prices may be more reasonable?"

I wouldn't count on it. Considering Heritage's track record, with investors now pouring money into collectables, with the dollar being at such a low point, and with recent record prices being set at R&R, I doubt if anyone will be bragging about the steal they got at this sale. Keep in mind that everyone likes a good deal... but sometimes the joy comes in acquiring an incredible rare piece, and there is certainly no shortage of those in this auction.

Noah

Matt T
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posted 02-28-2008 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Matt T   Click Here to Email Matt T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd agree that no one's going to get a bargain on the iconic pieces like Shepard's golf club handle, but some items that have previously been thin on the ground are starting to appear in increasing numbers. How many lunar surface flown manual pages / cue cards, Fliteline and Robbins medallions have surfaced in the last couple of years? I'd be looking at items like these in forthcoming auctions if you're hoping to find something slip past the 'cheque-book' collectors

Cheers,
Matt

------------------
www.spaceracemuseum.com

rchappel
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posted 02-28-2008 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rchappel   Click Here to Email rchappel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would have thought I would agree with you about the increasing number of Robbins and Flitelines appearing on the mkt. But, if I remember right, I think there were two Apollo 11 Robbins in the last Heritage auction that each sold for more than $15K.

4allmankind
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posted 02-28-2008 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 4allmankind   Click Here to Email 4allmankind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my mind, the recent frequency of Robbins medallions coming to market should do nothing to lower their value or demand. We are talking about an item with a fixed and confirmed finite population. These auctions simply give us the opportunity to acquire them.
Jay

Matt T
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posted 02-29-2008 02:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Matt T   Click Here to Email Matt T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, whichever direction the bidding takes there's certainly plenty of opportunities for flown medallion collectors at the moment. Heritage has three flown examples of the Apollo 14 Robbins, two each of Apollos 9, 10, 11, 13, and 15, one each from the other missions - plus the complete set on the bracelet. There's another 12, 14 and 15 at Swann, plus a 7, 9, 10 & two more 13s which are also available at Farthest Reaches. The Spacesource are offering Apollo 13 Robbins direct from Fred Haise, while last month's Novaspace auction included a 9 and 15.

Also worth noting is that nearly all of these are coming direct from astronaut collections. The number of Robbins is indeed a fixed quantity, but the number in circulation is growing - an important distinction for collectors.

40 or so Robbins on offer in such a short space of time - and that's not including the unflown - I don't remember seeing before. It'll be interesting to see whether it creates a buzz for new Robbins collectors or softens prices for the more common medallions.

Cheers,
Matt

------------------
www.spaceracemuseum.com

4allmankind
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posted 02-29-2008 08:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 4allmankind   Click Here to Email 4allmankind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Matt, I donít disagree that there are some great medallions out there right now for the taking.

Your last statement will be the critical point. Time will tell on that I guess, but I am thinking with new hobby entrants like Heritage involved, I can not say that medallion circulation, as you call it, will be a major issue. Just my opinion of course.

Leon Ford
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posted 02-29-2008 09:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Leon Ford   Click Here to Email Leon Ford     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jay,

I have to say that all the Robbins medallions that are coming on the market right now hasn't seemed to drop the price of the medallions by much. If anything, the last Heritage auction set new highs for a few of the medallions. I collect them and have purchase a couple of extras lately. I think they are good investments as well as great collectables.

Leon

PS NEVER buy these items or any other space artifact to try to make money on them. When I say it was a good "investment" I mean that I feel it will hold it's value. Just want to make that clear. LF

lunareagle
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posted 02-29-2008 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunareagle   Click Here to Email lunareagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt T:
40 or so Robbins on offer in such a short space of time - and that's not including the unflown - I don't remember seeing before. It'll be interesting to see whether it creates a buzz for new Robbins collectors or softens prices for the more common medallions.
It's great to see some talk about the Robbins Medals. After the comments so far, I thought I would weigh in. Yes, more Robbins Medals have come to market as the prices have picked up. However, if the above numbers are correct, with all of the chatter, 40 or so total medals offered over a number of venues from 7 different missions still is not a lot.

The September Heritage sale sold two Apollo 11 silver Robbins for approximately $15,000 and $19,000, which are new highs for this medal. Also, last month a flown Apollo 15 silver Robbins fetched approximately $9,000, another new high.

Heritage is the largest coin auctioneer in the country and their first catalogue (last September) exposed the Robbins to coin guys who have never before seen them. The coin market has been in a bull market for a few years now and the coin guys have great profits. So, $10,000-$30,000 on a medal flown to the moon is not a lot to these fellows.

I agree that it will be interesting to see if the other mission medals catch up to these recent new highs, or whether the next round of sales will bring prices down a bit. I still believe that the days that some of the less popular medals, like Apollo 7 or Apollo 9, can be had for the kind of money they have sold for in the last couple of years is coming to an end. I do believe that it is natural for the strongest and most desirable medals to lead the rise. I expected that we would now see a slow pull upward for the next most desirable or scarcest medals and we saw it with the latest sale of the Apollo 15. If this holds true, the Apollo 16 and others in the next sale that have been in a predictable price range should begin to move up too.

I have reviewed a few records of known sales of a few of the missions and I am still amazed that as many as we are reporting here that have recently sold or are being offered, over a 10 year period or so, there are still only about 30 Apollo 11 medals that have changed hands, 16 Apollo 16 medals and less for many others.

I think it is worthy to also advise that I know for a fact that many of the astronauts are either out of medals completely, or have only a handful remaining in their collections and they are now reluctant to let any more of them go.

Regardless of the sale prices upcoming, this sale offers what I believe are some of the last opportunities to get these medals from astronauts and especially crewmembers with the kind of certification that is being provided.

I am also not sure if the community knows that the evening before the Heritage auction, Heritage will be hosting a reception at the Dallas Air & Space Museum for registered Heritage bidders. An invitation is required so you should phone Heritage and be sure to get one. The following astronauts are expected to attend the reception at this time:

Eugene Cernan
Charles Duke
Walt Cunningham
Richard Gordon
Joseph Kerwin
Jack Lousma
Edgar Mitchell

If you can't attend I would still consider getting a catalogue. It looks like it will be a great reference.

lunareagle
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posted 03-01-2008 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunareagle   Click Here to Email lunareagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For those interested, it looks like the Heritage Auction has now gone live and is open for bidding.

stsmithva
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posted 03-01-2008 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stsmithva   Click Here to Email stsmithva     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like how the bid amounts have in parenthesis the total amount including buyer's premium. Do other auction houses do that? I can think of a couple that don't.

Also, the opening bids sure give you an idea of what you're getting into. Most of the hardware I had marked as "watching" have opening bids of $3,000 or higher. The PLSS strap starts at $30,000; and the scoop I gushed about above starts at $125,000- or, with BP, $149,375!

Steve

LCDR Scott Schneeweis
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posted 03-01-2008 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LCDR Scott Schneeweis   Click Here to Email LCDR Scott Schneeweis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And with the devaluation of US currency suspect there will be heavier the usual opportunistic bidding from foreign participants who perceive good deals to be had...much of this collection and important American "Heritage" will exit the country

Now I know how the Russians felt in the 90s!

------------------
Scott Schneeweis
http://www.SPACEAHOLIC.com/

rchappel
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posted 03-04-2008 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rchappel   Click Here to Email rchappel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Got my Heritage catalog today. Wow! Great catalog, great stuff, and a lot of new info on Flitelines and Robbins medallions form Howard. Really, really great stuff!

gliderpilotuk
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posted 03-05-2008 08:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LCDR Scott Schneeweis:...much of this collection and important American "Heritage" will exit the country. Now I know how the Russians felt in the 90s!

...or how we, the Brits/Europeans, have felt having bankers, fund managers and US industrial magnates raid our 2000+ yr heritage. Mind you, we got 'em with that "London Bridge" deal

Paul

mikelarson
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posted 03-05-2008 08:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mikelarson   Click Here to Email mikelarson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As an American who recently moved to Japan, I must say the current exchange rates were not a benefit I was anticipating, but I guess I'd better take advantage of it since my 401K is getting hammered!

Mike

Wings4Flight
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posted 03-05-2008 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wings4Flight   Click Here to Email Wings4Flight     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is it just me or do a lot of the starting bids seem a little high. I think that the estimated sale prices are too. Take for instance the 1992 Gathering of Eagles lithograph. The starting bid for this is $3500.00. If you go to Aviationautographs.com you can buy this exact piece for $1000.00 and in my opinion even thats a little high. I realize that not all of the prints were signed by George Bush but I purchased a copy of this print last year for my collection and only paid $500.00 and Bush signed my copy, so either I got a steal or these prices are way inflated. Not to mention that even if it cost you $1000.00 through aviationautographs.com and it wasn't signed last I heard was that if you mail the print to him he still signs them. I just have a hard time believing that his signature would add $2500.00 to the prints value. You can get a decent Armstrong signature for that and last I checked George never made it to the moon!

------------------
Aaron M. Lyon
www.wings4flight.com

Ken Havekotte
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posted 03-05-2008 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just for the record, there are some autopens in the upcoming auction not noted. For starters, Lot #58412 contains a Grissom autopen. The Apollo 8 flown flag certificate, Lot #58152, has both Borman and Lovell autopen prints. With Lot #58202 the signatures of the STS-1 crew, Young and Crippen, are not genuine, but autopen prints. For Scott, I only see two W. von Braun signed lots, and both are authentic in my opinion; a signed-inscribed Saturn 1B model and a letter to Aldrin signed "Wernher." Did I miss one?

Ken Havekotte
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posted 03-05-2008 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For "lunareagle" (Howard), Enjoyed your articles and writeups in the current Heritage Air & Space Auction catalog about the Gemini Fliteline medals and the Apollo Robbins medallion series. If I understand you correctly, Howard, are you saying the ten Apollo 11 medals with no dates added on the reverse were indeed flown on the mission? As you know, all do have serial numbers, but with blank backs. It has always been my belief, which I cannot confirm, that all ten medals were removed from the orginal roll of unflown medallions by an astronaut office worker.

lunareagle
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posted 03-05-2008 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunareagle   Click Here to Email lunareagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
It has always been my belief, which I cannot confirm, that all ten medals were removed from the orginal roll of unflown medallions by an astronaut office worker.
Ken - I read the article again on catalogue page 36 "The Enigmatic Apollo 16 Robbins Medals" and do refer to the ten Apollo 11 blank backs as unflown. Please read again.

I did find an error on my part though on catalogue page 62 "The Robbins Treasure Medals" where I stated there were 255 Apollo 12 medals when there were actually 262. Stupid error. Sorry.

lunareagle
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posted 03-05-2008 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunareagle   Click Here to Email lunareagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
Just for the record, there are some autopens in the upcoming auction not noted.
I have advised Heritage to have this information updated on their website. Thank you.

Ken Havekotte
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posted 03-05-2008 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Howard--I read a later part of the same article on page 57, 2nd paragraph, that said, "In fact, all struck medals continued to be flown for Apollo 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14." Yes, I did read earlier of the surfaced (all from the same source) ten Apollo 11 medals that "were learned to have been unflown." But I didn't know, from reading the later sentence and from another source, if the "unflown" status of the ten blank backs were fully determined one way or another.

The dozen or more Apollo 16 "blank back" medals produced by Robbins came from the same source as did the ten Apollo 11 medals referred to. One of my engraved Apollo 16 medals, while not numbered on the medal itself, contains a number (61) on the reverse of its black plastic display case.

Do other "unflown" medals from Apollo 16 also include their display cases with numbers on the back?

On a curious note; My only Apollo 7 Robbins medal, #251, was made into a tie clip or bar! It came from the collection of Wally Schirra, mission commander, that I got from him way back during the early 90s.

It was reported that Capt. Schirra said only 2-3 were made into a tie bar clasp. Perhaps Cunningham might have more information about this (I'll ask him later).

lunareagle
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posted 03-05-2008 08:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunareagle   Click Here to Email lunareagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
But I didn't know, from reading the later sentence and from another source, if the "unflown" status of the ten blank backs were fully determined one way or another.
Ken - Now I see. Sorry for the confusion. The 10 blank back Apollo 11s were definitely NOT FLOWN as confirmed by Michael Collins.

As far as the boxes for the Apollo 16 unflown medals. To my knowledge, the plastic boxes DO NOT have any number markings.

Ken Havekotte
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posted 03-05-2008 09:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the clearification, Howard, and I remember reading an account from Mike Collins about the missing Apollo 11 medals from crew quarters. Does anyone know from what source (book?) such a reference came from as I can't find it anywhere in my own aerospace library and reference files? Unless I missed the actual reference, I didn't find it while re-reading Carrying the Fire, Liftoff, and First on the Moon. Thanks!

Perhaps another Robbins mystery; Why is my Apollo 16 medal, inside its plastic display box, have a serial(?) number on the back of the black box? Yet there is no serial number on the edge of the medallion itself!

lunareagle
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posted 03-07-2008 07:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunareagle   Click Here to Email lunareagle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For anyone who has not received the auction catalogue but plans to attend the reception on March 24, I thought it may be helpful to advise that this is a mix and mingle opportunity for collectors and space enthusiasts and not an autograph session. This is an opportunity for the astronauts to talk about some of the artifacts they have consigned, share some stories and meet some of the folks who will be bidding on their items. It has been requested that people not ask for autographs. As most collectors know, these gentlemen normally receive a fee for signing and there will be no such set-up for that. Reasonable requests for photos I'm sure would be appropriate.

Scott
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posted 03-07-2008 10:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
Just for the record, there are some autopens in the upcoming auction not noted.
Hi Ken - sorry for the delay. As you note, those examples you list are autopens. The descriptions have been changed.

The suspect von Braun cover I mentioned in a post above was removed from the auction and is not shown in the current online catalog.

Thanks Ken!

Scott

mensclub10
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posted 03-08-2008 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mensclub10   Click Here to Email mensclub10     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just for my information, what is the approximate value of the Apollo 11 flown Robbins medallions and the Apollo 11 unflown blank back Robbins medallions?

Also, are the Apollo 16 medallions the next most rare and and what are their values?

Dave


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