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  Regency-Superior Oct. 2007 auction (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Regency-Superior Oct. 2007 auction
Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-03-2007 09:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Regency-Superior release
quote:
Regency-Superior Space Public Auction
October 11-12, 2007

Regency-Superior will conduct a two-day Public Auction at their gallery in Beverly Hills, California on October 11th & 12th. This sale will have nearly 1,000 Space Memorabilia lots ranging from early aviation to unmanned space flights through the Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Skylab, ASTP and Shuttle programs of the United States, as well as items from the Vostok, Voskhod and Soyuz programs of the Soviet Union and Russia. Other strong areas include early Rocket, Balloon and Zeppelin material along with the current items related to the International Space Station and "SpaceShipOne".

The auction begins at 10am (Pacific Time) on both days with a live bidding floor and simulcast bidding on eBay Live Auctions (www.ebayliveauctions.com). Viewing of the lots is available beginning Wednesday, October 10th at Regency-Superior's gallery at 9478 W. Olympic Blvd, 2nd Floor, Beverly Hills, CA 90212. Those who would like detailed lot information my contact the gallery at (310) 553-5475.

The entire auction is available online for viewing and bidding at www.RegencySuperior.com, and includes full lot descriptions, estimates, color photographs and opening bids. A full color catalog is available to all bidders by calling toll-free 1-800-782-0066.

The sale begins with a special section comprising over 60 lots from the estate of astronaut Theodore 'Ted' Freeman who tragically perished in 1964, before he had a chance to utilize his extensive education and training as a pilot and aeronautical engineer.

Some of the highlights of the sale are as follows:


(Lot 24) A presentation album presented to Faith Freeman by the entire Astronaut Corps given to her after the memorial service for her husband, Theodore Freeman. This was the last time the entire group would be together in one place at the same time. The 25-page photo album is highlighted by two pages of autographs signed by dozens of astronauts including Grissom, White, Chaffee, See, Williams, Bassett, Aldrin, Armstrong, Collins, Gordon, Borman, Schirra, Glenn, Shepard, and many more.


The Rocket section is loaded with dozens of individual and group cover lots from many countries during the 1930s through 1950s. A highlight from this section is (Lot 172) a 1948 launch cover for the V2 Rocket that carried 'Albert' the primate astronaut to a height of 39 miles on June 11, 1948. Remarks on the cover include 'Partly successful (monkey died of suffocation)'.

The Mercury section contains no fewer than five different lots signed by ALL SEVEN original Mercury astronauts. This section also includes several items carried into space aboard various missions.


Apollo, as usual, has numerous historic and valuable items. The section begins with a Roger Chaffee signed cover and continues with several flown flags from various missions. One of the highlights is (Lot 363) a cover flown to the Moon on Apollo 11 from the Michael Collins collection signed by the crew with 'Delayed in Quarantine' black handstamp, and cancelled Webster, TX Aug 11, 1969 cds. The cover is notated in Collins' hand 'Carried to the Moon aboard Apollo 11'.


There is (Lot 480) a Personal Preference Kit carried to the moon surface by Lunar Module Pilot Jim Irwin aboard the Apollo 15 mission.


The Skylab program is highlighted by (Lot 528) the King James Bible that was part of Skylab's on-board Library for many months and traveled millions of miles (consignor, Astronaut Bill Pogue will be donating the proceeds of the Bible to charity).


The Shuttle section is highlighted by autographed materials relating to both the Challenger and the Columbia tragedies. There is (Lot 625) a magnificent cover signed by the complete crew of STS-51L with the KSC hand cancel dated Jan 28, 1986, Launch Day.


(Lot 624) a lot containing the famous signed and inscribed photo by Christa McAuliffe which states: "May your future be limited only by your dreams".


(Lot 663) STS-107 is represented by a photo and a litho each signed by the entire crew.


Our "Model" section includes (Lot 952) a rare nuclear rocket engine 'NERVA' model from Aerojet, plus a LEM prototype model made at JSC and on display there for many years.

Good luck with your bidding, and thank you for your participation.


clifford
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posted 09-03-2007 09:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clifford   Click Here to Email clifford     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The catalog is now online. I have consigned crew signed photos from every Gemini mission (even the rare G-3, G-4 and G-10) and a few Mercury and Apollo things as well. Check it out. Also lots of great flown things that are not mine.

Clifford

Ken Havekotte
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posted 09-04-2007 06:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For a quick heads up before I'm out for most of the day concerning the new Regency-Superior space auction catalog; The catalog looks great for their Oct. 11-12 auction with nice color and graphics, however, there are some major lot description flaws.

Their listed Mercury 7 signed lot (#197) does contain a Schirra autopen and a Shepard secretarial (and can't see the Cooper too well). Yet another Mercury 7 lot (#203), advertised with all autopens, does indeed include a genuine Glenn, Carpenter, but has a Shepard secretarial.

Lot #209 is one of Shepard's later secretarials and I never cared for the Grissom pattern on Lot #214 (just my opinion). The signed White launch cover, lot #269, isn't authentic, along with the Schirra signed cover on lot #321. There are some others with Borman, I think Anders, and the Apollo 11 crew (Lot 391 is a big "forgery" joke) that I haven't had a chance to examine, but will do so as time permits.

Scott
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posted 09-04-2007 07:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lot 388 is a German Apollo 11 crew forgery of the classic style - absolutely no doubt about it. I have already written Alan to let him know.

capoetc
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posted 09-04-2007 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Scott:
Lot 388 is a German Apollo 11 crew forgery of the classic style - absolutely no doubt about it. I have already written Alan to let him know.
Out of curiosity, how can you tell? Is it just experience, or do you have an example you compare it against?

I sure would have thought it was authentic ... thanks for the heads up.

------------------
John Capobianco
Camden DE

Scott
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posted 09-04-2007 09:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi John,

Unfortunately I cannot tell why here in this thread, for obvious reasons. Yes it is experience - after seeing enough of these you can almost recognize them as you would recognize a friend (or actually, enemy would be more appropriate). It is riddled with tells, on all 3 signatures. I am certain about it - there is no doubt in my mind.

These Armstrong, Collins and Aldrin styles have apparently only emanated from a particular space dealer in Germany who was very active in the late 90s to early 00s, but currently keeps a very low profile. To my knowledge this dealer has yet to adequately explain to any of us (either in the States or in Germany) where he obtained this style (i.e., conflicting stories, names no one has heard of accompanied by no contact information). FWIW, I do not know if he is the actual forger.

SpaceChick
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posted 09-04-2007 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceChick   Click Here to Email SpaceChick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi All,

I am a member of the Space department at Regency Superior. Some of you may have met me at the shows in Florida and Arizona.

OK, now down to business. The following changes have been made:

Lot # 197, Schirra autopen & Shepard secretarial (ADDENDA)

Lot # 203, includes genuine Glenn & secretarial Shepard (ADDENDA)

Lot # 209, Shepard Secretarial (ADDENDA)

Lot # 269 Withdraw (not genuine White signature)

Lot # 321 Withdraw (not genuine Schirra)

Lot # 388 Withdraw (German Forgery)

As always, we welcome your questions and comments. Keep 'em coming.

Nicole Browne

Scott
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posted 09-04-2007 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks so much, Nicole!

SpaceChick
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posted 09-04-2007 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceChick   Click Here to Email SpaceChick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lot 391 was also withdrawn.

mjanovec
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posted 09-04-2007 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kudos to Nicole to responding to this thread and taking action to remove the forgeries from the auction. The fact that someone from Superior is responding to this thread and showing an interest in "cleaning up" their own auction is a good sign!

While not in the space items category, I would suggest someone from Superior get a second opinion on the Beatles signatures offered up for auction. The McCartney and Lennon signatures, in particular, appear to be questionable. (Edit: I also don't care for the Ringo and George signatures that much either, on second glance.)

mjanovec
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posted 09-04-2007 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SpaceChick:
Lot # 203, includes genuine Glenn & secretarial Shepard (ADDENDA)

I would include that the Carpenter is genuine too, as Ken also noted. It is generally known that Carpenter didn't have an autopen pattern during his time at NASA.

In this case, it's a correction that actually adds to the desirability of the item in question.

Ken Havekotte
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posted 09-04-2007 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nicole--Wow! A pleasnt surprise to see your posting so quickly in removing some autopen and/or some "very atypical" autograph lots. Unfortunately, we didn't meet at the KSC-Florida show. My schedule only permitted me to attend at certain times/days, so please forgive me. I think such a decision(s) puts a responsible Regency-Superior "over the top" with their competitors. Good show.
Anyway, here are a few more observations that I would like to submit based on my opinions;

Lot 252 -- Not too crazy about this Grissom.

Lot 253 -- Is there more background on this?

Lot 288 -- One of the German forgeries?

Lot 315 -- More info is needed as I am not too crazy about the Chaffee in this format

Lot 334 -- Need better scan; possible Borman autopen

Lot 337 -- Perhaps one of the German forgeries?

Lot 336 -- Anders autopen as already noted.
There are a few other "unlikely" Anders on a few other lots, but will let them go for now.

Lot 342 -- As noted, these are indeed Apollo 9 crew autopens, but I also question about the flag being flown as it needs more documentation in a weak format such as this.

Lot 387 -- I just don't like this piece, mainly the Armstrong signature, and Collins, too?

Lot 388 -- Yes, I agree with Scott; one of the German forgeries. This appears to be one of many different photo-scenes he uses-- all on original NASA color glossies.

Lot 485 -- Not too crazy about this Scott.

Lot 507 -- Need to see it closer.

Lot 510 -- Another Cernan-flown flag with "copy" of his certifying letter. If a copy, stay away from it unless you have the original Cernan/Evans letter.

Lot 516 -- All Apollo 17 crew autopens.

Lot 585 -- Believe it or not, don't like the Crippen on this piece and need to see the Young better.

Lot 663 -- Need to see a bigger pic of this STS-107 signed litho, but appears to be autopens (even though from the Clark estate).

Lot 889 -- No, not a good Armstrong.


Lot 462 -- Needs a better look at.

clifford
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posted 09-04-2007 07:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clifford   Click Here to Email clifford     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As always thanks to Ken for his advise and help, and I agree it is refreshing to see such candor from the auction house. I have documented my troubles with Aurora here, and am pleased, as a consigner, with what I have seen so far for Superior.

That said, a few of the lots in question are mine. I am surprised (and disappointed), having thought that the were all bought from reputable dealers, but in the interest of the truth here is what I know about them.

Lot 209 the shepard secretarial was bought by me from Sean Mesar (spelling?) in Bethpage NY, about five years ago. (Yes, on ebay)

lot 253 the crew signed G3 nasa ep pamphlet was bought by me from SpaceMike in Germany about 5 to 7 years ago, from his website.

lot 288 crew signed G7 photo was also bought from SpaceMike about the same time.

I hope that this helps clarify somewhat. If the forum here feels that these are not real I will ask Superior to pull them from the sale. I have no interest in being a part of perpetuating false autographes.

Let me know what you think,

Clifford.

spaceflori
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posted 09-05-2007 01:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaceflori   Click Here to Email spaceflori     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ken,

can you elaborate us a bit on this :
"Lot 288 -- One of the German forgeries?"

I didn't know that there is a fake style known of these two guys here.

Both Borman and Lovell have signed for $10-$20 till the late 90s through the mail I believe and since Clifford revealed the source "Spacemike" I can confirm that Spacemike indeed sent tons of items to these astronauts back then - even in my presence when we met at a Superior sale in the 90s.
I can't say obviously that this photo was among these batch of items, but we should be a bit more careful here before claiming anything fake.
Ken, you remember that Gemini 7 item on ebay which you declared fake just because of a blurry scan and then had to paddle back when I requested a fullsize scan from the seller (not spacemike).

Florian

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Scott
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posted 09-05-2007 10:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:

Lot 315 -- More info is needed as I am not too crazy about the Chaffee in this format

Lot 334 -- Need better scan; possible Borman autopen

Lot 387 -- I just don't like this piece, mainly the Armstrong signature, and Collins, too?

Lot 485 -- Not too crazy about this Scott.

Lot 889 -- No, not a good Armstrong.



Ken, Thank you again for taking the time to go through the offerings.

Some personal comments regarding Ken's comments:

Lot 315: IMO this has a recent Chaffee style, apparently from Germany. This is the 3rd time I have seen this distinctive off-style, the first two times were on items coming from Germany. I believe it is not an authentic style. [BTW, a bit off-topic, but what kind of person would forge Chaffee's, White's or Grissom's autograph? - 3 brave men who died in a fire trying to get Man to the Moon and who never made a dime on their autographs. Unbelievable.]

Lot 334: I believe this Borman is probably handsigned and authentic, but of course a larger scan would help confirm one way or the other.

Lot 387: Don't like this Armstrong or Collins either.

Lot 485: This IMO is not an authentic Dave Scott style. This is at least the 2nd time I have seen this apparently recent and very distinctive off-style. The first time was on a GT-8 crew signed piece being offered online by a seller in Germany. FWIW, that piece also contained an Armstrong forgery style IMO.

Lot 889: An odd-looking Armstrong, but a larger scan is needed. Just my opinion.

poofacio
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posted 09-05-2007 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for poofacio   Click Here to Email poofacio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Beatles autographs are very dubious (and that is being kind!)

clifford
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posted 09-05-2007 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clifford   Click Here to Email clifford     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to update, I have recieve an email from a CS member stating that "spacemike is thought by some to be a seller of many forgeries..." Thought by whom ? This is the first that I have heard of this. I have been collecing for almost two decades and have never heard this or seen it discussed at CS. It would be helpful to know who holds these opinions (and why) before we accuse anyone of wrong doing. Has anyone else heard of this ?

I encourage all who have an experience or facts on SpaceMike or on any of my lots to discuss it publicly here. (lots 253 and 288)

Ken, can you be more specific with what you don't like than

"Lot 253 -- Is there more background on this?

Lot 288 -- One of the German forgeries?"

Please understand that your word carries weight here and that many members will not bid on your say so. if you have a real reason for not liking something than please let us know, but it is unfair to be so vague.

Clifford.

Scott
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posted 09-05-2007 09:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clifford,

An inordinate number of the classic style German forgeries of the Apollo 11 crew members appear to have the dealer you mention as their earliest known owner. This conclusion is based on information gathered from a dealer in Germany (who I won't name here) as well as observations of collectors elsewhere.

As to why this information is little-known, a primary reason is that it was not known (at least to my knowledge) by any collectors interested in this issue until fairly recently. These specific Apollo 11 forgery styles had been known for some years to emanate from Germany, based on considerable circumstantial evidence, but no specific possible source was known. A couple of years ago, a German dealer came forward and revealed that every example of these styles which he had ever owned had come from Spacemike (Michael Anderiasch). Since that time, there have been other examples of these forgeries whose ownership has been traced to Spacemike. In each case, Anderiasch has either not provided a verifiable provenance for the item or has not responded at all to questions concerning the item's origin.

Ken Havekotte
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posted 09-06-2007 06:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Florian--Just for the record, can you email me a scan of the GT-7 signed pic referred to in your prior post here? Honestly, I can't seem to recall the incident as I usually didn't comment on GT-signed items (of Spacemike origin) only until recently unless they were of different signed patterns. I think Scott points out a few major concerns here, not known years before, in his prior posting. For Clifford--Thanks for the kind remarks, but please remember, my observations are strictly my own opinions. Lot #253 with the Grissom and Young, it appears, may/does originate from the same German source, correct? Not to imply that everything from such and such a particular source must be bad, no, but one must be very careful when it comes to purchasing hard-to-find autograph material with crews like GT-3, 4, 8, 10, Apollo 8, 10, 11, 16 and perhaps a few others. The same can be said, rather true or not, for Lot #288 with the GT-7 crew signed mission color glossy. Look at the original source, but even going a bit further, it would appear to me that certain Borman (and sometimes Lovell) characteristics are similar to "his" later Apollo-crew signed color glossies. As a long-time collector of astronaut autographs, certain space pilots did change in their patterns somewhat throughout the years. For instance, if someone tells you that this and that particular autograph piece was of vintage era, when in fact, the signatures on it were not--but signed years later--what does that help to tell you? Such is an incident involving a well-known German dealer when offering an Apollo 10 vintage-mission-era-signed color glossy. In fact, the Cernan autograph on the piece was not signed within the 1969-70 era as indicated, which by the way, appeared to be signed by Stafford and Young (I believe "good forgeries") during that said "vintage era" within the same year or two of the lunar voyage.
The Cernan-style autograph was not known until AFTER his Apollo 17 lunar trip in Dec. 1972. These are only a few examples.

spaceflori
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posted 09-06-2007 10:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaceflori   Click Here to Email spaceflori     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a question re. the flown Apollo 11 cover in the Superior auction from the collection of Mike Collins:

I was under the impression all flown covers are consecutively numbered:
EEA - for Aldrin
C - for Collins
A - for Armstrong

however this cover doesn't have a number?
Does anybody have any further information here?

Florian

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clifford
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posted 09-06-2007 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clifford   Click Here to Email clifford     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To Ken and Scott,

Thank you both for your help in this matter, as well as looking over almost all lots in auctions years past, and helping us all identify possible problems. I have relied on both your opinions in past auctions. (and florian) For me this is the real value of this great community (CS) that we all share.

I have read about the specific apollo 11 german forgery style, but was unaware that they came from spacemike. I agree that caution is called for when anything else comes from the same source.

On the other hand one should be careful not to condem all material just because it came from that source. one bad apple in the barrel does not mean that the whole barrel is rotten, but it does mean that one should go through the barrel carefully and look for more rot.

Is there any specific known forgery styles for Grissom, Young, Borman or Lovell (the signers in my two photos) ? I got my catalog today, hope you got yours, and the photos of the signatures are pretty clear. Please look them over in the catalog for me and tell me what you think of the signatures.

As to the date that things were signed it is possible that a gemini photo was signed in the apollo era. As an example my lot 266, a G-4 signed photo. I owned the the photo signed by White for a decade before I sent it to Kim to be signed by McDivitt. So we have a gemini era White signature with a post apollo McDivitt signature on the same photo and both are real. No one told me, and I have not claimed that the G7 photo is vintage.

My offer stands to pull the two lots if you two, and Florian and perhaps Kim feel that they are not real.

With Thanks, Clifford.

Scott
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posted 09-06-2007 08:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by clifford:
To Ken and Scott,

Thank you both for your help in this matter, as well as looking over almost all lots in auctions years past, and helping us all identify possible problems.



You are very welcome, Clifford, though I cannot take credit for the exhaustive auction comments of this year or years past. That was/is Ken. As you note, it is very generous of him to share his considerable knowledge and experience, over multiple fields (autographic, philatelic, flown, etc) with our community in this way.

To answer your questions about forgery styles: Sadly there are apparently a few master Grissom forgery styles. There are apparently ones of Lovell and Borman, too, but those are (at least for me) harder to pin down. I know there has been a good bit of discussion offline regarding Youngs from a particular source (you can probably guess) in the past several years. Young's autograph however can be (IMO) one of the more difficult astronaut autographs to authenticate - much like Anders' (again, my opinion), and so it usually takes a good bit of comparison, study & discussion (appearance, provenance, context, etc) with fellow collectors to come to a consensus on whether something is a non-authentic style. It often takes a good consistent tell (a good example of such a tell being on the German Collinses, where a nonsensical "mystery letter" or "peak" often appears between the "k" and "e" in "Mike") or two to pin down a forgery style.

clifford
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posted 09-06-2007 09:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clifford   Click Here to Email clifford     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just been going through my notes and have that I am in error as to where I got the G3 signed Ep. It was in the spring 2000 Superior auction, lot number 146. Sorry to have caused any confusion and I hope that this clears up the authenticity of this piece.

As for the g7 signed one, a CS member has asked me to scan my other spacemike purcheses, and I have a A15 and A17 crew signed photos from him. I will send those to him as examples. Would it help to send those to either Scott or Ken ?

Clifford.

Scott
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posted 09-06-2007 09:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes I would be interested to see them. Thanks, Clifford.

Ken Havekotte
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posted 09-06-2007 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First, for Florian, I know that Aldrin used the notation "EEA" with a number for each of his flown moon covers on their front surface above the printed cachet area. I don't recall Collins using a notation number, like Aldrin did, on his lunar covers. I'll have to check my records on this, and to the best of my knowledge, I've never seen nor heard of any Armstrong flown covers with or without a number notation.

For Clifford in response to your above post. Lot #266 may have originated from the Ken Sharp(e?) collection many years ago. He was a close friend of many early astronauts and sold much of his signed pictures and other space memorabilia. I would feel comfortable with White being authentic on this piece as I also have a White-signed color Gemini spacesuit glossy inscribed to "Ken" that came from the original Sharp collection. Yes, it would appear, that McDivitt's autograph was indeed a later-acquired signature (did you say it was signed during one of Kim's signings?).

Yes, as noted in my prior post, one cannot asssume that all autograph material purchased from a particular dealer isn't good... but... it does require careful consideration, especially concerning deceased astronauts and hard-to-find Gemini/Apollo crews, when trying to acquire such items. Other White items in the current auction that I would support as authentic are the two Slayton pics, even though one of those Whites is a bit peculiar--but the provenance is certainly there (White's boss--from the Slayton estate)! The signed card looks good to me (#270), but after a closer look, I am not confident with White's signature on the GT-4 crew-signed prime recovery ship cover depicted as Lot #271. The "r" and "d" of White's first name along with the last letter "e" and Roman numeral "II" of his last name doesn't match up to my own collection patterns in comparison with dozens of different White signatures from 1962 to possibly early/mid Jan. 1967. I don't know what more can be said about the GT-7 signed glossy (#288) as definitely more info., as I noted before, would be most helpful. Is there any solid background history of ownership, how the signatures were obtained, and possibly any other provenance areas that can be extremely helpful? Most--if not just about all of my better autograph material--can be documented, and in many ways, from my own collecting experiences. In most instances I can tell you where, how, and when most of my prized astronaut pieces were obtained. Why is it that with so many "prized" pieces we're seeing more and more on today's marketplace, when asked for any provenance, none is usually available? Clifford, in all honesty, I can only relate to you my personal opinion about such and such an item in auction so-and-so, but, I can only say so based on my own collecting experiences and opinions. The GT-7 crew-signed glossy may indeed be authentic...but...in my mind, it needs a closer examination in trying to answer some of the provenance questions raised here. If a collector likes the Gemini signed lot, despite what others may think--that is fine--so long as he/she is happy with their purchase. Before buying, of course, think it over carefully and if my comments along with other veteran collector-specialists within the space collecting industry could perhaps help someone with such a "yes" or "no" decision, I am happy with that. Regarding the GT-7 lot, since you are consigning it to the auction house, perhaps just a brief mention, or add-on, to the lot description that it came from a German source sometimes in question. Perhaps that isn't a good idea, I don't know, but what do you think?

connoisseur
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Posts: 171
From: Northridge, CA
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posted 09-06-2007 11:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for connoisseur   Click Here to Email connoisseur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Guys - FYI - I may have severed my association with RegencySuperior, but I brokered and described all of the Ted Freeman Estate and Deke Slayton Estate, lots in the RegencySuperior sale. I doubt if there will be any questions about these lots, but if there are, I would be glad to clear up any questions about them.

Michael Orenstein

spaceflori
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posted 09-07-2007 12:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaceflori   Click Here to Email spaceflori     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The first Collins cover I've seen sold in a past Superior auction was numbered C-1 - Fall 1995 Sale, Lot 571.

Described "an example of a flown cover marked C-1".

Florian

------------------
Flown artifacts, autographs and more !
www.spaceflori.com

spaceflori
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posted 09-07-2007 02:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaceflori   Click Here to Email spaceflori     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, okay....I did some research :

Swann's sold a flown cover labeled "A-58" with a letter from Buzz Aldrin saying it's his initial and certifying the cover.

Superior sold a flown cover labeled "EEA-48" in their Fall 1999 auction (Lot 589), with a letter from Buzz and Joan Aldrin.

The total figures are :
Armstrong - 47 covers
Collins - 63 covers
Aldrin - 104 covers
(handwriting by Buzz Aldrin on the bag of covers they were carried in - Lot 571 Superior auction Fall 1995).

Assuming these covers are consecutively numbered (why not ?) : 58+48 = 106 covers.

But Buzz carried only 104 covers..................
Did Neil possibly gave his to Buzz ? Since Ken H. has never seen any Armstrong flown covers, that would make sense at least.

Maybe a question to ask in London ?

Florian

clifford
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From: Maplewood, nj, 07040
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posted 09-07-2007 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clifford   Click Here to Email clifford     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Scott and Ken, I feel better about my lots and will let them stand. I have learned even more about this crazy hobby of ours. I will now stop monopolizing this thread.

Scott, I will send those scans of my other spacemike purchases for your review. (I have sent them to one other CS member too) I don't know if it is appropriate but I am willing to post them here as well if that would help flush out the truth about forgeries. (perhaps this is a question better asked of Robert)

Clifford.

Ross
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posted 10-03-2007 10:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ross   Click Here to Email Ross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've just had a look at the catalog. Some very nice items in one of my areas of interest, Recovery ships. While understandable, it's a pity that the concentration has been on the signatures. Not a criticism, just an observation. Of particular interest in the Recovery Ship area are lots 224 and 229. Those of you who have seen my article on MA-6 USS Noa covers that will appear in the next Astrophile will know why I find these of such interest. If I had the money, I'd bid on these myself as they are probably one of the two rarest PRS covers in existence (not counting Captain's covers). One question on these is why the difference in estimates? I would have thought they would be approximately the same value. Also some other nice Mercury Recovery Ship covers including a MR-3 Lake Champlain cover, a MA-4 USS Decatur cover Captain's cover! plus a number of MA-7 PRS and Captain's covers.

DOX32
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From: Fairfax, VA USA
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posted 10-05-2007 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DOX32   Click Here to Email DOX32     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ross,

Lots 224 and 229 both show "P.M." in the hand cancel. These are suspect to being backdated!.

See page 6, Primary Recovery Ship Cover Handbook by Cartier. These two covers are addressed to Mrs. Trudy Woods, same backdated cover address as in the Handbook!

At least Glenn signed for lot 224.

Woody

capoetc
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From: Newnan GA (USA)
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posted 10-05-2007 09:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
Lot 889 -- No, not a good Armstrong.

I am interested in this lot, so I am curious about what the concerns might be with it.

I see a very VERY similar example is listed on the web site of a well known dealer (it does NOT, however, look identical) -- that example sold for almost $5,000. I won't list the site here, although if Ken Havekotte would like to know where I saw it I will e-mail the location to him.

------------------
John Capobianco
Camden DE

Ross
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From: Australia
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posted 10-11-2007 08:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ross   Click Here to Email Ross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DOX32:
See page 6, Primary Recovery Ship Cover Handbook by Cartier. These two covers are addressed to Mrs. Trudy Woods, same backdated cover address as in the Handbook!
Hello Woody,

That was Ray's view when he wrote his Handbook. However, he has since been convinced that they are genuine. In fact, I argue in my article that if they are genuine, as appears to be the case, they are the only covers which can be guaranteed to have been aboard the Noa on the recovery day. You'll need to read my full article to see the other evidence that supports my view. I consider these covers potential extremely important.

Ross.

Michael
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posted 10-11-2007 10:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Michael   Click Here to Email Michael     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is this Roger Chaffee authentic? Just Asking?

jimsz
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posted 10-11-2007 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jimsz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Due to working while the Regency auction is taking place Thursday I won't be able to watch on-line.

Is there a portion of the Regency site that will list Thursdays auction and the selling prices? I've looked at their site and did not see anything like that.

stsmithva
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From: Centreville, VA, USA
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posted 10-11-2007 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stsmithva   Click Here to Email stsmithva     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jimsz:
Is there a portion of the Regency site that will list Thursdays auction and the selling prices?
I believe this eBay completed Live Auction items page is what you are looking for.

I have a question about one of the lots: 55. This is on the same page as the flag that was discussed. It's a T-38A flight crew checklist that "was with Freeman onboard his ill fated last T-38 flight." Really? It was either recovered from the wreckage of the plane, or was in a pocket of his flight suit?

I seem to be the high bidder on lot 266, an Edward H. White II EVA photo signed by he and McDivitt. I'm happy with the price and it will frame up nicely with some other things. But I can't believe the price for lot 267, the EVA photo with a long inscription to Deke Slayton! Sure, it's sepia and way bigger than I wanted, but at that price with that connection... wow. I wonder if the winner will send it to the McDivitt signing in a couple of weeks.

Steve

jimsz
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posted 10-11-2007 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jimsz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Congratulations Steve! (and thank you for the info).

You won one of the items I wanted to bid on. I was stuck at work and missed the White lot by 3 items. I did put bids in but just missed out.

The same happened with the Grissoms.

Oh well, maybe one day I will complete my Mercury / Gemini / Apollo autographs. Only the 3 from Apollo 1 remain.

DCCollector
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From: Washington, DC USA
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posted 10-11-2007 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DCCollector   Click Here to Email DCCollector     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a question for the experts...

Lot 436, an Apollo 12 flown flag, went for $8,000, while Lot 510, an Apollo 17 flag flown to the lunar surface, only went for $2,000.

Why the rather significant difference?

spaced out
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From: Paris, France
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posted 10-12-2007 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Apollo 17 flag has no provenance. It is a flag accompanied by a copy of a letter saying "this flag flew to the moon". There could be hundreds of copies of the letter with hundreds of small $1 flags out there. Only the original letter has any real value, so where is it?

Also, despite mentioning both spacecraft the wording of the letter doesn't say to me that it (the flag accompanying the original letter that is) definitely travelled to the lunar surface.

On the other hand the Apollo 12 flag is perfect, and has just joined one of the most impressive space collections there is (any chance of a mention in you will David?),

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 10-12-2007 06:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just about in every major space auction, at least 2 or more times each year, the same Apollo 17 flown flag lot that has a "copy" of a letter written to Ed Barker from Cernan and Evans shows up. As said many times before, stay away from a lot "flown to the moon" like this unless you have the original letter, plain and simple. It would be interesting to know if the same source(s) every year continues to submit this bogus flown flag lot. The original flag from Cernan/Evans was carried--throughout the entire trip--inside command ship America. Their letter to Barker in Dec. 1975 indicates our nation's flag "flew to the moon aboard the spaceships "AMERICA" and "CHALLENGER." I think the Apollo 17 crew is referring to the combined command and lunar module spacecrafts, as they are docked or linked-up together in space, as they travel to the moon. One last comment about the Apollo 12 lunar flag that sold in yesterday's Regency-Superior auction. I must disagree, but with all due respect, with "spaced out's" remark that the 12 flag was "perfect." One major flaw with the lunar flag is with the crew presentation itself. Believe it or not, Conrad's autograph on it is indeed an autopen! I am also not too crazy, just my opinion, of the signature placements and type of ink that was used. Perhaps I am being too picky, huh?, but $8K for a command ship lunar-orbital flag with a Conrad autopen sounds a little bit high to me. But, if a collector needs a flown flag from 12 perhaps to complete his/her collection in this area, to each his own. Any other thoughts?


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