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  Aurora Auctions April '07 Auction (Page 3)

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Author Topic:   Aurora Auctions April '07 Auction
BuddyBoy
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posted 04-16-2007 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BuddyBoy   Click Here to Email BuddyBoy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by H E Pennypacker:
Ebayers selling forgeries are shot down here (as they should be), but apart from a few concerned voices like Rick's, the silence over this auction house's behaviour is deafening...
The only difference I see is that the Auction Houses have a little more "plausible deniability" because they are handling so many items. Just the same, for the fees and the size of the auction in general, I think it isn't unreasonable to expect a bit more verification that we have seen.

I also notice that some of the other auction houses are willing to provide feedback and engage the members here regarding the authenticity of their items, at the very least pretending to appreciate the expertise of some of our members, and further examining and withdrawing questionable lots. I haven't seen that from Aurora, but I wonder if that's due to the fact that many Aurora items are identified as coming from a particular collection and Aurora may not want to risk libeling these folks. I know some of the issues raised here result in items being pulled or descriptions being revised, but without the publication of a press release.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 04-16-2007 12:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ArtandAstro:
Do you have any comments in regard to the Apollo 15 flown PLSS cable(s)?
Per the report of someone who was on the auction floor, the bidders in Bell Canyon were informed that the cable was not from a PLSS.

spaced out
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posted 04-16-2007 02:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The eBay listing was also updated to change the description. I noticed this at the time of the auction but don't know how far in advance it was done.

NAAmodel#240
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posted 04-16-2007 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NAAmodel#240   Click Here to Email NAAmodel#240     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Having failed to read this thread prior to bidding I bid and won an Apollo 10 crew signed (lot 488) cover for $200. I am comfortable identifying autopens but am poor with fakes.

Once I read this thread I realized my error. Citing cS I requested my winning bid be cancelled. After responding that you guys are mistaken Aurora, to it's credit, released me from my bid.

Thanks to the cS community. :)

clifford
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posted 04-16-2007 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clifford   Click Here to Email clifford     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you are looking for a crew signed A10, I consigned a VIP signed card to Aurora, and for some reason it was not listed in the catalog but will be offered in the follow up ebay/Aurora auction on the 21st.

I am a little confused as I thought that only things that went unsold were offered again at this later date, but perhaps that is my fault as I assumed this rather than checking.

Never the less I would think that they would want to give such an item as much publicity as possible, VIP cards are collectable as is, and crew signed are rare, but I will wait and see how it works out. (I would understand if it was a less desirable piece like a unsigned magazine).

mjanovec
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posted 04-16-2007 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by clifford:
If you are looking for a crew signed A10, I consigned a VIP signed card to Aurora, and for some reason it was not listed in the catalog but will be offered in the follow up ebay/Aurora auction on the 21st.

Do they still charge a full commission on items they don't list in the published catalog? Seems like a bad deal if they charge full commission for lesser services.

To me, the auction seemed weighed down with too much "stuff" priced under $50. That stuff eats up a lot of catalog space and eats up a lot of auction time (especially considering all of the items that didn't even reach their "starting price"). Yet, I saw "bid faster" messages on Ebay live during some of the premium items that naturally take a while to find their maximum price. Strange.

Scott
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posted 04-16-2007 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NAAmodel#240:
Having failed to read this thread prior to bidding I bid and won an Apollo 10 crew signed (lot 488) cover for $200. Citing cS I requested my winning bid be cancelled. After responding that you guys are mistaken Aurora, to it's credit, released me from my bid.
While it is good that Aurora released you from your bid, am I understanding you correctly that Aurora still insisted that Lot 488 is authentic and that we on cS were mistaken when we questioned it?

NAAmodel#240
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posted 04-17-2007 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NAAmodel#240   Click Here to Email NAAmodel#240     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Mistaken" is my gentle way of putting what I was told.

Scott
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posted 04-17-2007 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NAAmodel#240:
"Mistaken" is my gentle way of putting what I was told.


I'm guessing it was probably the same person there who once disagreed with me about some autopens (yes, autopens) which I'd privately pointed out to them.

mjanovec
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posted 04-17-2007 09:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my opinion, anyone who auctions off an Armstrong Spitfire photo as genuine has no business telling others who is "mistaken."

NightHawk117
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posted 04-21-2007 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NightHawk117   Click Here to Email NightHawk117     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anyone received the final invoice with shipping yet?

manilajim
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posted 04-21-2007 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for manilajim   Click Here to Email manilajim     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm still waiting for my catalogue...

machbusterman
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posted 04-22-2007 03:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NightHawk117:
Has anyone received the final invoice with shipping yet?

Not me anyway!

atpowell
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posted 04-27-2007 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for atpowell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Got my final Aurora invoice via email today.

NightHawk117
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posted 04-27-2007 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NightHawk117   Click Here to Email NightHawk117     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have received my day 2 invoice, but not day one. I called Tuesday and they said that they would look into it, but still no invoice. I need my models!

gliderpilotuk
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posted 04-28-2007 04:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Had both my final invoices.

Peter Kemp
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posted 05-01-2007 05:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peter Kemp   Click Here to Email Peter Kemp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've also been waiting here in the UK for an Invoice for Lot 802B which I thought I had won with an absentee bid of $150 placed via eBay Live Auctions.

Seems to be problem though as Aurora have a Live Floor Bidder as the winner with exactly the same bid.

eBay Live Auctions state that if an absentee bidder and another bidder place the same bid amount,the earlier bid takes priority.

According to eBay Live Bid History, my bid was placed at 03.44.46 PDT on April 14 2007.

The Live Auction Bid on the floor was placed at 16.28.20 PDT on April 14 2007 and I assume this was in real time.

By my reckoning therefore my absentee bid was placed over 12 hours earlier and I should have been the successful high bidder for this item.

I've asked Aurora for an explanation and am waiting for their reply.

My previous purchases from Aurora's Sales using absentee bids via eBay Live Auctions
have all gone without any problems in the past.

Richard
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posted 05-01-2007 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard   Click Here to Email Richard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think that is true if both bidders are from the internet or proxy. However, it seems to me that in all the auctions that I have taken part (not just space and not just Aurora), the floor bidder is given the priority.

divemaster
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posted 05-01-2007 11:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A floor bid will take priority. It's happend to me in the past.

Peter Kemp
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posted 05-01-2007 01:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peter Kemp   Click Here to Email Peter Kemp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Richard and divemaster for this additional information. I was unaware that live bids took priority.

If that is the case then the guidance on the eBay Live Auction site appears to be totally wrong as it clearly states

"ALL BIDDERS IN THIS LIVE AUCTION (ABSENTEE and LIVE) - If you and another bidder place the same bid amount, the earlier bid takes priority"

This seems to cover the situation where absentee bidders and those in real time are competing but from your experience what happens in practice is very different.

I suppose the upside is that I did save myself $150 plus shipping plus UK customs duties and those signed prints do crop up relatively frequently in sales.

I would still like an explanation from either Aurora or eBay Live Auctions as to why their bidding rules conflict.

mjanovec
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posted 05-01-2007 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have to wonder if the order the bids are entered during the live bidding plays a role in who wins the item. Imagine two bidders bid the same maximum bid on an item with a $100 starting price. Bidder 1 bids $150 via an absentee bid before the auction starts. Bidder 2 bids up to $150 from the floor.

The auctioneer starts the bidding at $100 with the absentee bid from Bidder 1, and increases the bidding in $10 increments:

Bidder 1 (absentee): $100
Bidder 2 (live): $110
Bidder 1 (absentee): $120
Bidder 2 (live): $130
Bidder 1 (absentee): $140
Bidder 2 (live): $150

Bidding stops at $150, because Bidder 1 set $150 as their maximum and Bidder 2 doesn't want to go any higher.

Who should win the item? Bidder 1 because they bid $150 first via absentee bidding. Or Bidder 2, because he placed the last incremental bid during the live auction?

On regular Ebay auctions, where bids are done by proxy, Bidder 1 would have won the item. But would the same be true in a live auction setting?

Richard
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posted 05-01-2007 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard   Click Here to Email Richard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You make a good point about the wording, but it is the wording that is the key to this. You seem to have confused an proxy bid placed with ebay live auctions with an absentee bid placed with an auction house directly. These are not the same thing.

A proxy bid for ebay live auctions competes only with the ebay live auction bid. The bid placed earlier within the ebay system gets priorty, however, the auction house still sees the bid as a live auction ebay bid competing against everything else.

Therefore, I believe that if a situation occured where 4 bids were being considered at the same price, the following priority list would be made:
1. proxy bid placed directly with the auction house
2. floor bid
3. ebay live auction proxy bid
4. ebay live auction bid.

So, if you had instead called Aurora and placed a absentee bid directly with their books, then your bid would have won. However, the floor would still have been given the chance to outbid secondarily.

mjanovec
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posted 05-01-2007 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Richard:
You make a good point about the wording, but it is the wording that is the key to this. You seem to have confused an proxy bid placed with ebay live auctions with an absentee bid placed with an auction house directly. These are not the same thing.

No, I understand the distinction between Ebay bids (both live and absentee) and absentee bids placed directly with the auction house. My example was actually meant to illustrate an absentee bid with an auction house vs. a live floor bidder...but I didn't do a good job making that clear.

Sometimes, I think it's simply a matter of what bidders gets their bid registered first in the live auction. In my example above, there is shown a feasible way in which someone who bids first (via an absentee bid) can lose out to someone how bids later (via a live bid)...despite both bidding the same amounts.

I notice that some auction houses (like Swann) will allow absentee bidders to specify whether they are willing to go one increment higher than their maximum bid, presumably to avoid the scenario I illustrated above where the first high bidder could lose out to a second bidder just due to the order in which the bids are recorded. In that case, if Bidder 1 specified that he is willing to go one increment higher (to $160), then presumably he'd win the auction if the live Bidder 2 wasn't willing to go to $170.

The question is whether most auction houses would actually award the item to Bidder 2 for $150...using the scenario I've outlined in my previous post (assuming that Bidder 1 wasn't willing to go any more than $150 either).

Richard
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posted 05-01-2007 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard   Click Here to Email Richard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry about that mjanovec. My post was actually directed at Kemp, but by the time I posted it, you had already psoted a reply (I guess we could start a topic about which post should be accepted first).

mjanovec
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posted 05-01-2007 04:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Richard:
Sorry about that mjanovec. My post was actually directed at Kemp, but by the time I posted it, you had already psoted a reply (I guess we could start a topic about which post should be accepted first).

Oops, I guess I missed Kemp's post! Sorry for the confusion.

Now, if only I can figure out how to post by proxy.

Peter Kemp
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posted 05-01-2007 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peter Kemp   Click Here to Email Peter Kemp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is developing into quite a thread but having done some further research into exactly how eBay Live Auctions operate, it looks as if on this occasion I will need to agree that Aurora did identify the correct high bidder.

Look at this example given by eBay:

quote:
Bob places an absentee bid of $1,300.
Dennis is on the floor bidding live.

The auctioneer opens the bidding at $1,000, which goes to Bob.

The next increment is $1,100, which Dennis raises his paddle for and wins.

The computer proxy bids to $1,200 for Bob.

Dennis places the next bid and wins the auction at $1,300.

The computer proxy is unable to counter Dennis's bid of $1300 because Bob chose $1300 as the highest amount he was willing to pay when he placed his absentee bid.


To ensure your absentee bid will win, you have to place a bid that represents the maximum amount you're willing to pay (and perhaps a generous margin, if like me you are not able to follow the auction live)

eBay Live cannot bid above that amount - as in the example above.

I suppose it still come down to how badly you want to add an item to your collection and whether you are prepared to risk paying way over the odds because you are not in a position to bid in real time.

Still doesn't explain the contradiction that appears on another part of their website and in the auction details for individual lots which I cited in my previous post

"ALL BIDDERS IN THIS LIVE AUCTION (ABSENTEE and LIVE) - If you and another bidder place the same bid amount, the earlier bid takes priority"

So I've learnt a little more on how the auction process works when you are thousands of miles away and I can start putting aside a little money for the next round of sales later in the year.

At least I'll have no problems bidding at the Christies Sale on the 17th May as for once I can take the opportunity to actually be there in person!

GACspaceguy
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posted 05-01-2007 08:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think that mjanovec and Peter Kemp are saying the same thing. I watched the auction live on line and had a proxy bid for an item set at $200. The bidding started with me as a proxy and I was bidding against the floor bidder. My bid went to $180 and then the floor bidder went to $200, first. Now I could have jumped in at that point, bid live and went to $220, but I elected not to and the floor bidder won at $200, even though my bid was in days earlier. The fact remains that the floor bidder bid the $200 first. If the floor bid had been the starting bid I would have gone to $200 first,in that case the floor bidder would have been required continue to bid if they wanted. As I had set a limit for myself of no more than $200 for that item it would have gone to the floor bidder.

benguttery
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posted 05-07-2007 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for benguttery   Click Here to Email benguttery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My item received in Fort Worth, Texas, today.

daveblog
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posted 05-09-2007 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for daveblog   Click Here to Email daveblog     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My three items arrived in NJ today.

machbusterman
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posted 06-05-2007 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My payment reached the Aurora office on May 3rd... its now June 5th and still my lots have not arrived. I am completely unimpressed.... woeful service. In fact, I had "chased" my payment with Aurora for about a week and was told it hadn't arrived... it was only after I advised of the date of delivery from the tracking number that my payment was found.

contra
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posted 06-06-2007 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for contra   Click Here to Email contra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm trying to contact Victoria Campbell for the last two weeks through e-mail. No luck.

machbusterman
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posted 06-06-2007 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by contra:
I'm trying to contact Victoria Campbell for the last two weeks through e-mail. No luck.

I sent 6 emails and none were answered... your best bet is to pick up the phone I'm afraid.

poofacio
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posted 06-30-2007 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for poofacio   Click Here to Email poofacio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is anyone else still waiting for the things they bought from Aurora's last auction?

gliderpilotuk
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posted 06-30-2007 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nope - got my winnings from the follow-up auction about 2 weeks ago.

machbusterman
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posted 06-30-2007 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Isn't it also great how they don't leave feedback for items won on eBaylive?

clifford
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posted 07-01-2007 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clifford   Click Here to Email clifford     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was a consigner in the last auction. I have heard nothing about what sold, for how much, where my unsold lots are, where my check is, etc. My contract says "payment within 30 days" (section 6 c)

I have emailed Victoria half a dozen times, called and left messages for her and Maureen, and early last week called and actually got Maureen, When I vioced my displeasure at thier lack of response, she assured me she would call back with answers to all my questions the next day. She did not. Nor the next day. Or the day after that. For this I have paid them 15% of the value of my items.

They have lost me as both a buyer and seller forever. Shame on them for treating people this way. Thier loss.

NightHawk117
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posted 07-01-2007 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NightHawk117   Click Here to Email NightHawk117     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by poofacio:
Is anyone else still waiting for the things they bought from Aurora's last auction?

I have not received my items yet!

spaceflori
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posted 07-02-2007 01:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaceflori   Click Here to Email spaceflori     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have received my items but like Clifford I'm waiting for any consignment result list or check, too.

Have not even received a consignors result list from the last october sale though I got a check with an amount I can't verify.

Tons of emails to both Maureen and Victoria remain unanswered as well.

machbusterman
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posted 07-02-2007 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds like the next catalogue might be VERY thin if thats how all consignors are treated... and buyers could be thin on the ground too.

nasamad
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posted 07-02-2007 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nasamad   Click Here to Email nasamad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My thoughts exactly Derek, they say any publicity is good publicity but I'm not sure thats true!


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