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  ESA - JAXA - China - International
  NASA Administrator: Outreach to Muslim world (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   NASA Administrator: Outreach to Muslim world
Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-06-2010 08:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Al Jazeera video

Charles Bolden, the NASA administrator, in conversation with Al Jazeera's Imran Garda.
Editor's note: Since this video was released on July 1, several collectSPACE members have sought to discuss the interview and specifically Bolden's comment about the priorities set out for him by President Obama to reach out to the Muslim world. To date, these posts have been removed out of a preventive concern (supported by other websites, where the same topic has resulted in hate speech).

The interview does provide insight into a particular area of NASA's outreach activities and therefore is not without some merit for discussion. To be clear though, any reply that comes even close to being discriminatory or hateful, per our board's rules, will be removed.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-06-2010 08:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It may be instructive to consider this interview alongside the remarks delivered by Bolden at the American University in Cairo. In addition to citing the contributions to NASA by Dr. Farouk El-Baz, the NASA Administrator addresses President Obama's goals for the region as it applies to NASA.
While the majority of NASA's cooperation is accomplished with space faring nations, other nations are increasingly relying on the unique capabilities of space for day-to-day activities such as urban planning, resource management, communications, weather forecasting, navigation, and disaster response.

As a consequence, NASA's international partnerships have continued to grow in diversity and importance, as the Agency has engaged both developed and developing nations in a wide range of mutually beneficial activities.

At the same time, it remains the case that nearly half of our active agreements involve cooperation with the same small group of about eight countries.

Soon after President Barack Obama stood in Cairo, just over one year ago, and spoke of partnership between the United States and Muslims around the world, he asked NASA to change that ratio by reaching out to "non-traditional" partners and strengthening our cooperation in the Middle East, North Africa, Southeast Asia and in particular in Muslim-majority nations.

NASA has embraced this charge. International cooperation contributes significantly to NASA's mission just as it does to the national goals and objectives of our partners. Existing cooperation with non-traditional partners is reflected in many of our agreements that involve low-cost, high impact activities in science and education...

As our challenges are interconnected, so are our solutions. The more we engage with our global partners on these endeavors, to address significant questions about the Earth and space, to study and understand the challenges to our own planet and develop solutions, the greater the benefit to us all.

International cooperation has always been a basic principle of NASA's mission. With the renewed energy from President Obama's Cairo initiative, we continue to expand our efforts to work together with other nations in pursuit of common objectives.

BNorton
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posted 07-06-2010 09:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BNorton   Click Here to Email BNorton     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Administrator's remarks are very disturbing and frequently untrue. (For example, we, the US, apparently cannot do anything without the help of the rest of the world, etc.) He apparently really believes what he is saying. Yet another very sad day for the US space program.

jimsz
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posted 07-06-2010 09:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jimsz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since when is it the space programs mission to reach out to any religion of people?

NASA is perceived poorly amongst many Americans and injecting politics into the mix will do little good.

NASA would be better served, as would the American taxpayer, if NASA would stick to exploring space. if they wish to make anyone "feel good about their contribution" as Mr. Bolden states, how about encouraging and equipping students within the US to pursue math, science and engineering?

The fact that the leader of our country believes the US in unable to perform space exploration without assistance is a bit disturbing.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-06-2010 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jimsz:
Since when is it the space programs mission to reach out to any religion of people?
To quote Wikipedia out of convenience, "In a historical or geopolitical sense, the term [Muslim world] usually refers collectively to Muslim majority countries or countries in which Islam dominates politically."

While the term can apply "in a cultural sense... to the worldwide community of Muslims, adherents of Islam," that is not the case here, as Bolden's remarks are directed at international partnership.

It would be like saying that NASA's partnership with Israel, which by definition is a Jewish state, is religious rather than political, which it is not.

KSCartist
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posted 07-06-2010 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This effort to "make them feel good" or appreciate their contribution to math and science on it surface is commendable. But what are we hoping to accomplish here?

We have been allies to Muslim countries for decades. We try to encourage all allies to adopt our democratic values in the hopes of promoting peace and stability. But it hasn't worked.

In the 1960's and 70's we had friends in the Shah of Iran and I remember seeing photos of Don Rumsfeld and Saddam Hussein together. Look what happened to those relationships when those leaders abused their power. We don't have many friends in those countries now.

Why do we as a nation need to make them feel good about their contributions to math and science? They should already be learning that without our help. This is not NASA's mission - give it to the State Department and the United Nations. NASA's job is to explore space.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-06-2010 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bob Jacobs, NASA's assistant administrator for public affairs, told Fox News on Tuesday that Bolden was speaking of priorities when it came to "outreach" and not about NASA's primary missions of "science, aeronautics and space exploration."

Still, he said, "international cooperation and collaboration is important to the future of space exploration." Jacobs said he will let the administrator's comments "speak for themselves," but said it was unfortunate those comments are now being viewed through a "partisan prism."

...as is clear in the above cited remarks delivered at American University in Cairo.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 07-06-2010 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KSCartist:
This effort to "make them feel good" or appreciate their contribution to math and science in it surface is commendable.
And though it was, strictly speaking, a Russian mission, NASA should have started by insisting that Ansari be allowed to wear the Iranian flag on her patch...

cspg
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posted 07-06-2010 01:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jimsz:
The fact that the leader of our country believes the US in unable to perform space exploration without assistance is a bit disturbing.
Fort Knox is empty, hence the need for assistance.
quote:
Originally posted by KSCartist:
This is not NASA's mission - give it to the State Department and the United Nations. NASA's job is to explore space.
Maybe it's not, maybe it (partly) is. Yet there are more urgent problems that need to be tackled.

jimsz
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posted 07-06-2010 04:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jimsz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
More commentary on part of NASA's bold new mission...
The former head of NASA on Tuesday described as "deeply flawed" the idea that the space exploration agency's priority should be outreach to Muslim countries, after current Administrator Charles Bolden made that assertion in an interview last month.

"NASA... represents the best of America. Its purpose is not to inspire Muslims or any other cultural entity," Michael Griffin, who served as NASA administrator during the latter half of the Bush administration, told FoxNews.com.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-06-2010 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BNorton:
Yet another very sad day for the US space program.
This is sad day for the U.S. space program, but only because a group of very intelligent people are allowing -- if not outright encouraging -- a poorly-stated soundbite to be blown completely out of proportion.

Bolden is at fault for not explaining himself clearly (again) and making the mistake (again) that an overseas interview would not be seen at home.

But it is a far worse act by those with the capability of researching -- simply reading or picking up a phone -- what were the intent behind Bolden's words, to instead flame the fires.

At least the debates to date -- extend the space shuttle, save Constellation, Moon vs. Mars, commercial vs. contractor -- have some real merit behind them.

This is nothing more than yellow journalism.

Matt T
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posted 07-06-2010 05:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Matt T   Click Here to Email Matt T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Bolden is at fault for not explaining himself clearly (again) and making the mistake (again) that an overseas interview would not be seen at home.
Well yes though that could also be seen as -

Bolden is at fault (again) for telling one person/group what they want to hear and then turning around and telling the next person/group what they want to hear. (Again).

It's becoming a very familiar pattern, from 'quick, give me some plan Bs' to 'no there never was a plan B' and onto 'yes Gene, there could be a massive bailout' to 'no I don't believe I mentioned bailouts to anyone'. (Obviously I'm paraphrasing his remarks but in Bolden's case it seems somehow appropriate. )

bobzz
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posted 07-06-2010 05:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bobzz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
This is nothing more than yellow journalism.
I might agree with you if the whole interview wasn't available. Mr. Bolden's words speak for themselves. I would not call his comments as a gaffe. He may be guilty of giving an honest answer to a journalist and for that he may be politically naive.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-06-2010 05:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt T:
Well yes though that could also be seen as -
Actually, in this case, no it can't. Why? Because Bolden's remarks delivered in Cairo are in the public record. Bolden was (poorly) recounting to Al Jazeera what he had said at the university.

If the university remarks did not exist, then you could claim Bolden was changing his story -- but they do, and so you (the 'royal' you, as in everyone) cannot.

quote:
Originally posted by bobzz:
Mr. Bolden's words speak for themselves.
They do... I agree, but only if we are talking about all of his words, including those delivered at the university.

bobzz
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posted 07-06-2010 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bobzz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anyway you slice it we are "Boldly going where no man has gone before".

jimsz
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posted 07-06-2010 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jimsz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This story has been out for a couple of days. If Mr. Bolden or the White House wished to correct the comments or provide the "proper" context they have had plenty of opportunity and time.

If they are a gaffe, it is one of many for Mr. Bolden and maybe it is time for him to be replaced. Either Mr. Bolden is in over his head or the direction NASA is being steered is misguided or both.

Either way, it does not speak well for those in power at NASA or in the government.

As for "yellow journalism", I think not. Could it be maybe that the links are from what is perceived as a second rate news organization rather than the less popular liberal leaning news organization (who by the way has had this story online as well).

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-06-2010 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA did issue a clarification to Fox News (cited earlier in this thread).

I can't speak for others' perceptions of any news organization, but I believe the charge of yellow journalism enjoys equal opportunity, bi-partisan employment...

Go4Launch
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posted 07-06-2010 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Go4Launch   Click Here to Email Go4Launch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KSCartist:
This is not NASA's mission - give it to the State Department and the United Nations. NASA's job is to explore space.

I couldn't agree more with Tim.

issman1
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posted 07-06-2010 11:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for issman1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"We came in peace for all mankind," famous words uttered by an American on 20 July 1969.

Seems to me that Mr. Bolden is trying to extol the virtues of them 41 years later. NASA is as good a foreign policy tool as any for the US to win over hearts and minds.

Malaysia was the first Muslim nation to send an astronaut to ISS back in 2007. I'd like to see more follow suit. Perhaps they need to be encouraged that spaceflight is for all and not just an elite few?

KSCartist
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posted 07-07-2010 04:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by issman1:
NASA is as good a foreign policy tool as any for the US to win over hearts and minds.
Very true but what I'm trying to say is that by letting NASA do it's unique mission, THAT alone should inspire people from around the world.

We flew the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia aboard Discovery in 1985. Did that do anything to make the United States more popular or "win hearts and minds"? I don't believe it did. Although flying Sultan al Saud was still a great idea.

Muslims throughout history have made contributions in many areas and (I hope) the youth of those countries are inspired by those accomplishments.

Lord knows the USA is not perfect. But we have accomplished some amazing things in the areas of science and technology. Many have been inspired to participate and that's wonderful. But there was no need to make a special effort to reach out to anyone - the fact that they were inspired by the accomplishment and wanted to become a part of the organization that did it was enough.

Fully fund NASA, let it do its job and invite international participation. If Muslims (or anyone else for that matter) want to join us then let them offer something that will help accomplish the mission.

issman1
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posted 07-07-2010 05:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for issman1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think President Obama is simply making a goodwill gesture here and some are reading way too much into it.

Think of it along the lines of 'ping pong diplomacy'. On a personal note, NASA and its incredible achievements truly represent the best of America. But I'm not very impressed by much else.

So if this "outreach" inspires a new generation of Muslim boys and girls to study space sciences, good.

jimsz
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posted 07-07-2010 06:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jimsz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It should be not be NASA's job for any of this "outreach".

If Muslim countries (or china, or India, or France, etc) want a manned space program, let them build a manned space program.

NASA should be focused on building the US Space program, with Americans, since it is American's who are funding NASA. If NASA is now part of the state department and will make this Muslim outreach a priority than it is time to scuttle the entire space program.

issman1
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posted 07-07-2010 07:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for issman1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jimsz:
If NASA is now part of the state department and will make this Muslim outreach a priority...

Neither Obama or Bolden are making it a "priority". But it's good PR for America's image in the Muslim world nonetheless (goodness knows you need it).

Some might say that Apollo was a part of America's strategic defence and space just another battlefield for the Pentagon. No-one complained how NASA was being used back then.

BNorton
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posted 07-07-2010 10:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BNorton   Click Here to Email BNorton     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
This is sad day for the U.S. space program, but only because a group of very intelligent people are allowing -- if not outright encouraging -- a poorly-stated soundbite to be blown completely out of proportion.

First, this is far from a sound bite. It is a long interview, in which the Administrator had plenty of time to try to "fix" any statement problems. It is now one of many where he has made what I will call "disturbing" remarks.

I do not understand why so many continue to "write off" his statements. The "wishful thinking" by people who keep classifying his statements as just poor communication is perplexing. Even though you may not like what you hear, believe what he says...it is the Administration's "plan" for NASA.

drjeffbang
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posted 07-07-2010 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for drjeffbang   Click Here to Email drjeffbang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by issman1:
Neither Obama or Bolden are making it a "priority". But it's good PR for America's image in the Muslim world nonetheless (goodness knows you need it).

How could it not be considered a priority if President Obama made improving Muslim relations foremost on his Administrator's agenda?

This really seems to be beyond the scope of NASA.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-07-2010 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BNorton:
First, this is far from a sound bite. It is a long interview...
The interview is long -- the university address is even longer -- but it is only a few seconds of that interview, a.k.a. a soundbite, which has driven the headlines and news.
quote:
...it is the Administration's "plan" for NASA.
Yes, it is (bet you didn't think I'd say that). It is the Administration's outreach plan for NASA to involve "nontraditional" partners, something that Bolden has been saying since he became the Administrator. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It is those who are "writing off" that fact -- that this was clearly an outreach priority and not a programmatic priority -- that are (knowingly) exaggerating this non-story.

issman1
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posted 07-07-2010 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for issman1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by drjeffbang:
How could it not be considered a priority if President Obama made improving Muslim relations foremost...

Because it comes under the "scope" of the NASA Outreach programme - something happening for a number of years now.

I'm still unsure why anyone is getting upset (the mere mention of Islam/Muslims seems to be toxic for some).

jimsz
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posted 07-07-2010 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jimsz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
...that this was clearly an outreach priority and not a programmatic priority -- that are (knowingly) exaggerating this non-story.
This is a potentially big story when woven together with the lack of focus Obama has brought to NASA, for the mounting questionable statements from the administrator and the lack of benefit for the US space program for any outreach program to the Muslim (or most other) world. They have nothing the US needs and nothing the US can benefit from.

Mr. Obama has demonstrated yet again that he see's little of value in NASA other than to further his own agenda. As for the administrator, it is about time he leaves as he seems in way over his head.

jimsz
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posted 07-07-2010 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jimsz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by issman1:
Neither Obama or Bolden are making it a "priority". But it's good PR for America's image in the Muslim world nonetheless (goodness knows you need it).
When it is stated as being one of the three or four goals outlined to the new administrator it is a priority.

As for America's PR, this is not the place for a political discussion but any NASA outreach would have no affect. As for the US, there is no benefit at all in this.

quote:
Some might say that Apollo was a part of America's strategic defense and space just another battlefield for the Pentagon.
Just because it is said does not make is so.

moorouge
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posted 07-07-2010 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In a very telling phrase from Byron York, a columnist of the Washington Examiner, he characterises the President's space policy as moving "...from Moon landings to promoting self esteem."

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-07-2010 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jimsz:
...woven together with the lack of focus Obama has brought to NASA, for the mounting questionable statements from the administrator and the lack of benefit for the US space program for any outreach program to the Muslim (or most other) world.
Allow me to reply by quoting your own words...
Just because it is said does not make is so.

Go4Launch
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posted 07-07-2010 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Go4Launch   Click Here to Email Go4Launch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by issman1:
I'm still unsure why anyone is getting upset (the mere mention of Islam/Muslims seems to be toxic for some).

My goodness, I re-read this entire thread and could not find a single comment that came anywhere close to anything "toxic." As others have written, this flap has little if anything to do with Islam. There'd be similar head-scratching if Bolden had said the same thing about outreach to some other religion. It does have to do with whether this administration is setting the right course for NASA, and that's what is upsetting to some.

Jimsz is on the right track when he says, "woven together." If Obama were strongly backing a robust human spaceflight program, Bolden's comments would have been little more than a curiosity. But when Obama is perceived to have shut down such a program (note I said perceived), it just doesn't play well with the public when his NASA chief then seems to suggest a substitute mission for the agency.

I would also disagree that the reporting represents yellow journalism. It's actually "24-hour-news-cycle, comments-taken-out-of-context, blogosphere" journalism that all public figures must now contend with no matter who they are. Fair? No. Reality? Yes.

Matt T
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posted 07-07-2010 03:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Matt T   Click Here to Email Matt T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Actually, in this case, no it can't.

Sorry Robert but yes it can - if you choose to characterize it as explaining poorly, or clarifying or any of the other anodyne phrases that have gained universal currency then you are free to do just that but it's equally valid for me to point out that Bolden is once again expressing himself differently to different audiences.

Are the viewers of Al-Jazeera aware that they can only form an opinion on what Bolden said if they first read the Cairo transcript? No, so for 99.9% of the viewing audience the interview is all he said - and (would you believe it?!) he's once again said things pitched to appeal to that particular audience.

And when those remarks are relayed to a different audience then of course he didn't mean that... correction... clarification... poor communication... blah blah blah.

(Again).

jimsz
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posted 07-08-2010 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jimsz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Allow me to reply by quoting your own words...
Just because it is said does not make is so.

Ok, how is it not so?

NASA has a lack of focus, lack of clear goals and a lack of NASA being able to put men into space by their own means (shortly).

Where is the benefit for an outreach to the Muslim world? Is that going to somehow clear up the mess that is now the US manned space program?

An ill conceived political idea/agenda spoken about by a political appointee for a government program which lacks goals or focus.

That's not saying something to make it so, that is the way it is.

drjeffbang
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posted 07-08-2010 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for drjeffbang   Click Here to Email drjeffbang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Go4Launch:
As others have written, this flap has little if anything to do with Islam. There'd be similar head-scratching if Bolden had said the same thing about outreach to some other religion.
I agree. It just seems very strange to be the Admin's priority to reach out to Muslims. I didn't read any toxic reaction to that as stated above.

I would've thought it equally strange if I suddenly found out that NASA's top priority was to reach out to skateboarders.

No offense to skateboarders, just using that as a bizarre example.

capoetc
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posted 07-08-2010 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From Gene Cernan's recent Fox News interview:
"Sometimes its hard to figure out Charlie. I some times don't know if he says what he believes or believes what he says, quite frankly. He's a good man, I respect him - I have for a long time - and he's a friend. But if he really believes what he is quoted as saying about this particular subject... I hate to say this but I don't think Charlie knows or understands what the leadership role of the NASA Administrator really is. International cooperation is one thing. But in the manner in which he put it - the three major objectives in his leadership role as NASA Administrator... it just does not fit in what NASA was designed - what the charter of NASA really is. If he believes this - and I hate to say this is - its pretty strong and heavy - then I think we ought to... that leveler heads ought to call for his resignation because that is not what his job is. And if he doesn't believe it, he ought to stand up if he doesn't support the president' s proposal...
Walking away from this thread also, shaking my head...

Glint
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posted 07-08-2010 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glint   Click Here to Email Glint     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A commentary in today's Los Angeles Times by Andrew Malcolm describes Bolden's foreign utterances as "part of a conga line of Obama folks celebrating the first anniversary of the president's Cairo speech to the Muslim world."

Malcolm also describes Obama's space plan as "a beautifully wrapped downsizing and abandonment of the nation's pioneering manned space exploration."

The piece also has some previous quotes by the administrator regarding NASA's goals.

issman1
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posted 07-08-2010 09:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for issman1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I sincerely believe the reason humanity goes to space is to make us a better species and world.

I like what Bolden is trying to do and wish him all the success despite the cynicism and negativity of his critics (including other astronauts).

capoetc
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posted 07-08-2010 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Humanity doesn't go into space. Companies do in some cases (to earn a profit) and nations do in most cases (to further their own interests).

If the end result is to "make us a better world", then fine... but that is not the reason for going.

issman1
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Posts: 900
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 07-08-2010 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for issman1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So much for the optimism of visionaries like Gene Roddenberry and Isaac Asimov. We live in troubled times and I suppose that's what the future holds.


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