posted 07-08-2010 08:57 PM               

This appearance by Bolden led to some strong statements by Gene Cernan, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he actually called for Bolden's resignation. Some have interpreted it that way and reported as such, but I think the headline is slightly misleading.

posted 07-08-2010 09:59 PM               

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Originally posted by rchappel:
What is Bolden thinking?

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Originally posted by rchappel:
If his three stated goals are the President's mission and Bolden's mission for NASA now, I say we just cancel the whole thing...

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posted 07-08-2010 10:24 PM               

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Originally posted by rchappel:
Apparently we are now going to try and do that without the SPACE part. I think, once the SPACE part goes away, any attempts to inspire American kids to do math and science by "NA_A" will be a complete waste of money and effort.

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But speaking of inspiring children in other nations and Gene Cernan, I'm in total agreement with his remarks... delivered in 1972 from the surface of the Moon:

I think probably one of the most significant things we can think about when we think about Apollo is that it has opened for us -- "for us" being the world -- a challenge of the future. The door is now cracked, but the promise of the future lies in the young people, not just in America, but the young people all over the world learning to live and learning to work together. In order to remind all the people of the world in so many countries throughout the world that this is what we all are striving for in the future, Jack has picked up a very significant rock, typical of what we have here in the valley of Taurus-Littrow.

It's a rock composed of many fragments, of many sizes, and many shapes, probably from all parts of the Moon, perhaps billions of years old. But fragments of all sizes and shapes -- and even colors -- that have grown together to become a cohesive rock, outlasting the nature of space, sort of living together in a very coherent, very peaceful manner. When we return this rock or some of the others like it to Houston, we'd like to share a piece of this rock with so many of the countries throughout the world. We hope that this will be a symbol of what our feelings are, what the feelings of the Apollo Program are, and a symbol of mankind: that we can live in peace and harmony in the future.

posted 07-09-2010 07:36 AM               

The US was completing its first exploration of the moon. Cernan (as were most Americans) was expecting that we (the US, not the international community) would return to the moon and move on to Mars by the end of the century. I believe that he hoped that US leadership in space would inspire people around the world.

Now, we have a NASA administrator running around the world on an outreach program, hoping to inspire young people and hoping other countries will contribute money and hardware to explore space. And, do you know what those countries will say? They will say, "What is in it for us?"

It seems to me, and apparently to a LOT of other Americans on this forum and elsewhere, that the current NASA direction diverts resources into lots of things other than manned space exploration -- and THAT ticks us off. The program sets goals to do... ummmm, "something" ...a LONG time in the future, with no real plan on how to get there.

I, and many others, agree that it is a plan that "presents no challenges, has no focus, and in fact is a blueprint for a mission to nowhere." And that ticks us off too.

posted 07-09-2010 08:21 AM               

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Originally posted by capoetc:
Robert, those were different times, and you know it!

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We are marking the 35th anniversary of the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project this month. An Apollo-era example of international cooperation that didn't immediately advance the U.S. space program or our leadership position, but by most accounts had far reaching benefits that ultimately led to the International Space Station.

In the full interview with Al Jazeera, Bolden specifically addresses the topic of U.S. leadership in space and the expectation and encouragement by other nations that the U.S. will continue to serve as their leader moving forward.

NASA has had international outreach as part of its activities since the start. We sent astronauts on goodwill tours, we flew international flags and handed out moon rocks. We invited international students to not just tour NASA facilities, but extended them internships.

posted 07-09-2010 10:33 AM               

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Originally posted by issman1:
I sincerely believe the reason humanity goes to space is to make us a better species and world.

I like what Bolden is trying to do and wish him all the success despite the cynicism and negativity of his critics (including other astronauts).

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posted 07-09-2010 10:36 AM               

These comments are fairly and justly being scrutinized by space lovers (and many others) who are very distressed at the direction that our "space" agency is taking.

posted 07-09-2010 10:50 AM               

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Originally posted by rchappel:
Calling criticism of actual remarks made by the President's own NASA administrator "yellow journalism"...

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...and then saying that anyone who isn't okay with this "mission" for "NA_A" is really just, I guess, anti-Muslim or racist (not sure what else could be meant by saying we all just have a problem with Bolden's comments because of the part of the world Bolden is referring to) do nothing to advance the conversation or keep it on a civil level.

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...who are very distressed at the direction that our "space" agency is taking.

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Also, people often show their true colors and beliefs in their unprepared remarks (like the TV interview) more than in a long list of prepared (possible even with speechwriters involved) remarks (like those at the university).

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posted 07-09-2010 11:15 AM            

We all know he flew on seven shuttle missions and today is the inventor of VASIMR - an engine which may propel humans through interplanetary space.

No, jimsz, I'm not American and though living in England, I look beyond the confines of borders/boundaries. The accomplishments of NASA have profoundly helped to shape my world view.

posted 07-09-2010 11:20 AM               

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
We are marking the 35th anniversary of the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project this month. An Apollo-era example of international cooperation that didn't immediately advance the U.S. space program or our leadership position, but by most accounts had far reaching benefits that ultimately led to the International Space Station.

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This is not Star Trek... at best we are probably in the "Kon-Tiki" era of space travel. However, there is always room for international cooperation. Such cooperation and outreach, in the proper program mix, is unquestionably a good thing. Foreign astronauts fly on the shuttle, etc. However, foreign countries do not control the shuttle nor do we refuse to fly without their input or permission.

Apparently, however, you are missing the point that outreach and international cooperation is going to be the space program.

You wanted "can-do", did you not? At Mr. Bolden's KSC press conference in February, he expressed amazement that the US was building a spacecraft where the US had not consulted with other countries first. In this interview in question, the US cannot leave LEO without the aid of other countries. We (the US) just cannot do anything anymore without another country holding our hand. This is "can-do"? This is pathetic.

Oh, but the world wants the US to still lead. You bet. Would you not want on to a program where someone else is paying 99% of the cost and you get the same benefit? Oh, and how about the world cup and...

Another example of more outreach he has spoken of: The Administration's position has been more or less what is the point of a space program if there are no engineers, etc. We need to take the NASA money and make more engineers, etc. (Ask the many unemployed or under-employed engineers how they feel about this.)

I do not believe all this talk in the subject interview and elsewhere would be of concern to but a few if it appeared to be a minor focus. If the Administrator were spending as much time talking about concrete plans for the United States for robotic missions to Titan or Mars or..., you would not read the responses on this thread you see. He is not... and I see nothing on the horizon that was not in place since the President took office.

posted 07-09-2010 11:32 AM               

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Originally posted by BNorton:
There are very few who think differently 35 years later.

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Apparently, however, you are missing the point that outreach and international cooperation is going to be the space program.

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One needs to stop reading and listening to what he, Mr. Bolden, is saying with such apparently substantial bias.

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posted 07-09-2010 11:53 AM               

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Apparently, you are missing the point that outreach and international cooperation has been the space program for at least the last three decades.

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posted 07-09-2010 11:58 AM               

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Originally posted by BNorton:
I do not believe all this talk in the subject interview and elsewhere would be of concern to but a few if it appeared to be a minor focus.

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posted 07-09-2010 12:30 PM               

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Originally posted by BNorton:
But since the above is your viewpoint...

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All but one space shuttle mission has flown with international hardware aboard, and many times it has been placed in the critical path for mission success. There have been internationally-led missions (Spacelabs) and international crew members.

The space shuttle has deployed, serviced and returned international satellites, docked at a foreign-controlled space station, and ultimately helped build an International Space Station, which for the past 10 years has been the manned space program.

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...are you happy with the space program for the last thirty years?

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posted 07-09-2010 03:30 PM               

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Originally posted by BNorton:
One piece of hardware? This is hardly the direction seemingly proposed by the Administrator.

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posted 07-09-2010 09:16 PM               

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Originally posted by issman1:
Perhaps there's an mind out there in one of those Muslim nations waiting to be lighted (a spin on David Scott's words after Apollo 15)? A mind that may enable us to reach the stars.

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posted 07-09-2010 09:44 PM               

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
I wasn't calling the criticism yellow journalism, I was labeling many the news reports yellow journalism, which is a significant difference. Many of the news reports were simply reporting what another news organization reported, without doing even the most basic reporting or research of their own. The stories were headline-driven, the definition of yellow journalism.

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Robert, again I must respectfully disagree. Yellow journalism would involve, say, the Carver Media Group Network from Tomorrow Never Dies reporting that according to a source, Bolden may have a link to a suspected Egyptian terrorist, or some tabloid claiming he has a Muslim girlfriend over there. Or at least a big headline or a breathless anchor proclaiming, "NASA's Chief in League With Arabs!"

posted 07-10-2010 04:15 AM            

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Originally posted by jimsz:
There is nothing anyone can do that an American centric space program can do itself.

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You can't be this insular in the 21st century. The world is a small place, as they say. But the hostility to this latest outreach by NASA says more about those criticising it than anything else.

posted 07-10-2010 12:49 PM               

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Originally posted by issman1:
You can't be this insular in the 21st century. The world is a small place, as they say. But the hostility to this latest outreach by NASA says more about those criticising it than anything else.

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This attitude has been growing throughout the life of the shuttle and ISS and where has it gotten us? No where. We are still stuck in LEO, spending crazy amounts of money due to a lack of goals, a money pit in the ISS and inept leadership.

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The intention was to encourage friendly Muslim nations with established space programmes. Hopefully, the ISS partnership will expand in the near future and include at least one.

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posted 07-10-2010 10:16 PM               

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Originally posted by jimsz:
And what friendly Muslim nations have established space programs?

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posted 07-11-2010 06:02 AM               

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Among the Muslim world nations that have that operate satellites: Algeria, Malaysia, Egypt, Indonesia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

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posted 07-11-2010 07:03 AM               

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Originally posted by jimsz:
The US needs to be bold, go it alone, accomplish the impossible. When we partner up it drags us down.

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If the US wasn't involved with the ISS right now it MIGHT just be starting to launch the first modules of the 'Freedom' space station.

posted 07-11-2010 08:00 AM               

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Originally posted by capoetc:
Maybe we can help them improve their technology.

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The outreach efforts that Bolden spoke of in Cairo include having students collect local environmental data to calibrate U.S. and international weather satellites; sharing satellite data and computer models to improve forecasts of natural disasters; and providing access to a digital learning network where NASA education specialists can help guide students through their science and engineering studies.

posted 07-11-2010 09:28 AM               

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
I know we don't always given the U.S. military and intelligence agencies the credit they are due for providing reliable insight into national threats, but I think were any of NASA's 39 active agreements in 30 dominantly Muslim countries considered harmful to our domestic interests, they would put a stop to them pretty quickly.

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My comments were intended to be tongue-in-cheek ... guess I should have put a little smiley-face at the end.

Outreach is fine, of course -- just don't make it one of your highest priorities.

Words matter. If the Administrator's intent was to say that outreach was but a small part of his charge from the President, then he should have said so. If he simply mis-spoke, that's fine ... folks do it all the time.

posted 07-12-2010 08:27 AM               

You should be hopping mad. You should be complaining to elected officials and decision-makers, at NASA headquarters, the White House and Congress. You should demand immediate action to rectify a crisis that threatens to stymie America's space program.

Why? Because our nation's leaders -- and by extension, the media -- need to focus on resolving long-overdue decisions about NASA's future instead of this nonsense. People at NASA, the White House and Congress spent an inordinate amount of time this week jawboning about whether President Obama shifted the agency's "foremost" mission from space exploration to Middle East diplomacy.

First, let's address the al-Jazeera interview: Bolden screwed up. He was asked why he was in the Middle East and explained the priorities the White House gave him for one part of his mission: global cooperation in space exploration. He wasn't listing the agency's overall priorities, but the global cooperation priorities. The poor answer invited the criticism he got, especially if someone -- and plenty did -- clipped the one answer from the interview and didn't play the other 20-minute discussion about U.S. space policy...

posted 07-12-2010 09:14 AM               

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Originally posted by dom:
That is insulting to your friends aboard the ISS who are mainly responsible for NASA being able to get a regular supply of money out of the many manned spaceflight skeptics in Washington DC.

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If the US wasn't involved with the ISS right now it MIGHT just be starting to launch the first modules of the 'Freedom' space station.

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Personally, I would take a lesser more successful US only program of the Space Station Freedom than the money pit partnership ISS.

Remember, the US was capable of building an ISS like station without the assistance of others but there is nobody else that was capable of building it without the US.

Partnerships like we have in the ISS are only beneficial one way and it works to the benefit of lesser programs. That is why any outreach to any other countries with lesser programs (Muslim or otherwise) hold little benefit for the US.

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That's if it hadn't already been canceled alongside the shuttle program after the Columbia tragedy...

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posted 07-12-2010 04:02 PM               

Fox News: Muslim Outreach Not the Job of NASA, White House Says

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Monday that NASA Administrator Charles Bolden must have misspoken when he told Al Jazeera last month that one of his top priorities is to reach out to Muslim countries.

"That was not his task and that's not the task of NASA," Gibbs said.

Bolden, though, said last month in the interview that it was President Obama who gave him that task. He made a similar claim in February.

The White House also backed up Bolden last week when his remarks first stirred controversy. A White House spokesman last Tuesday said Obama wants NASA to engage with the world's best scientists
and that to meet that challenge, NASA must "partner with countries around the world like Russia and Japan, as well as collaboration with Israel and with many Muslim-majority countries."

NASA last week walked back Bolden's claim that Muslim outreach was the "perhaps foremost" plank of his mission, saying that Bolden was merely talking about his "outreach" responsibilities and that space exploration is still NASA's No. 1 job.

But Gibbs on Monday appeared to deny that Bolden was asked to focus on Muslim outreach at all.

Asked whether Bolden misspoke, Gibbs said: "I think so."

He said he wasn't aware of Obama speaking to Bolden about his comments.

posted 07-12-2010 05:16 PM               

It's an excellent question, I don't think, uh, uh, that was not his task and that's not the task of NASA.

I think so, yes.

I'm sure people... People at the White House talk to NASA all the time.

posted 07-12-2010 05:23 PM               

"What the President meant when he said Administrator Bolden said that the President said was..." etc etc