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  Space Shuttles - Space Station
  1970 NASA concept: Saturn V with orbiter

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Author Topic:   1970 NASA concept: Saturn V with orbiter
randyc
Member

Posts: 599
From: Highlands Ranch, CO USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 01-07-2012 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for randyc   Click Here to Email randyc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Check out this official NASA photo [via eBay] from 1970 of a space shuttle concept using the first stage of a Saturn V to help boost the shuttle to orbit.

Although I've seen several 'exotic' concepts, including a manned fly-back booster, I've never seen this one.

GACspaceguy
Member

Posts: 1394
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 01-08-2012 06:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Saw that one. The eBay ad says it was taken by an official NASA photographer. Since it was a dark room creation (this is WAY before Photoshop), I wonder if it was a NASA concept or that of the photographic team. Either way I plan on keeping an eye on the auction.

garymilgrom
Member

Posts: 1571
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 01-08-2012 07:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for garymilgrom   Click Here to Email garymilgrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fred, I would not expect the Karst range to be satisfied with a mere photo. Surely you have a source for an S1-C and a shop to build the orbiter? I look forward to touring the full scale model in February.

GACspaceguy
Member

Posts: 1394
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 01-08-2012 09:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A grand idea at that.

Jay Chladek
Member

Posts: 2211
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 01-09-2012 07:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mmmm, I don't know if it would make it to orbit like that. All I see is the S-1C first stage. I figure to give the thing enough Delta-v before the orbiter's engines fire, it would at least need an S-II stage as well (and I have seen concepts for that).

The folding wings are also interesting (how would the hinge mechanisms survive reentry?).

I don't know, something tells me this might not be a fully fleshed out concept, but maybe a photography experiment.

rasorenson
Member

Posts: 78
From: Santa Clara, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 2009

posted 01-09-2012 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rasorenson   Click Here to Email rasorenson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is not an authentic photo. A concept shuttle such as this was never transported to Pad 39. August 1970 was four months after Apollo 13. I assure you, there were no concept projects rolling out of the Vehicle Assembly Building.

The S-1C stage and tower appear to be a photo, the rest is superimposed. In the very very early days of shuttle ideas, there were a few concept drawings of a shuttle attached to an S-II stage, but they were ONLY drawings.

This never happened. It would have been on the front page of every newspaper in the country. There's a reason you haven't seen this till now.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 27328
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 01-09-2012 10:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think anyone has mistaken this for a real photo, but rather a darkroom creation — a composite of artwork and a photo.

For what it is worth, the eBay auction identifies the NASA Photo ID as 108-KSC-70PC-440 and describes it as "Saturn V First Stage Booster with Orbital Configuration on Top."

kr4mula
Member

Posts: 599
From: Cinci, OH
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 01-09-2012 11:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kr4mula   Click Here to Email kr4mula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a NASA photo (S-71-40393) that depicts two side-by-side models, one of which is a delta-winged Grumman orbiter atop what looks very much like the Saturn V first stage. Not as cool as your photo montage, though. Other photos of that era depict an orbiter piggy-backed onto at least a 2-stage Saturn V. I'm sure their thinking was much the same as it was recently: reuse legacy hardware/designs to minimize development costs.

MattJL
Member

Posts: 57
From: New Jersey, US
Registered: May 2012

posted 05-05-2012 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MattJL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I recall reading that one of the proposals for the space shuttle back in the seventies was to use a S-IC stage as a booster for the orbiter. I also recall seeing a reusable S-IC concept somewhere on this site.

Did anyone in the NASA hierarchy consider combining the two to produce a completely reusable shuttle (and LV)? Or would it have been too expensive?

If anyone could shed some light on this, it would be much appreciated.

Editor's note: Threads merged.

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