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Author Topic:   Saddam and the Challenger
Dwayne Day
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posted 12-20-2006 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wrote this:
http://thespacereview.com/article/770/1

lewarren
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posted 12-20-2006 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lewarren   Click Here to Email lewarren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting - thanks.

FutureAstronaut
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posted 12-20-2006 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FutureAstronaut   Click Here to Email FutureAstronaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lewarren:
Interesting - thanks.

Yes, not one bit boring!

------------------
Mike

randy
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posted 12-20-2006 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for randy   Click Here to Email randy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting. My how times have changed!

Robert Pearlman
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posted 12-20-2006 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Excellent summary of the archives process, Dwayne. Excellent job of keeping the reader in suspense, too.

I recently had a similar "things that make you go hmmm..." moment in the UHCL/JSC archives while digging through some of the recently indexed Abbey papers. Of course, I didn't find the information I wanted/needed though I did walk away with a stack of copies that will eventually be the kernel for a completely new project. Glad to read that I'm not the only person who has sat, slack-jawed as the simple result of turning a page over.

413 is in
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posted 12-20-2006 09:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 413 is in   Click Here to Email 413 is in     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's a great article, Dwayne. It immediately brought to mind the goodwill messages (received from 74 heads of state) etched onto a silicon disk and left on the lunar surface by the Apollo 11 crew.

An example from Iran:

quote:

"On this occasion when Mr. Neil Armstrong and Colonel Edwin Aldrin set foot for the first time on the surface of the Moon from the Earth, we pray the Almighty God to guide mankind towards ever increasing success in the establishment of peace and the progress of culture, knowledge and human civilization."

Mohammad Reza Pahlavi Aryamehr
Shahanshah


This is in sharp contrast to the dialog that has come out of Iran in recent weeks.

Not surprisingly, there was no goodwill message received from the state of Iraq.

------------------
b i l l

ejectr
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posted 12-21-2006 06:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ejectr   Click Here to Email ejectr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess leaving that goodwill disk on the moon is one of the few projects left behind that didn't work.

Rodina
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posted 12-21-2006 08:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting find, to be sure. I'm guessing he didn't wish for so much fortitude for the families of the 37 US sailors he killed 14 months later.

Dwayne Day
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posted 12-21-2006 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Excellent summary of the archives process, Dwayne. Excellent job of keeping the reader in suspense, too.

Glad to read that I'm not the only person who has sat, slack-jawed as the simple result of turning a page over.


I try to be careful about tooting my own horn too much (because every time you do, God cries... [obscure joke there]). The only reason I posted the link here is because, for some odd reason, I've gotten more positive feedback about that article than a number of others I've written in the last six months.

And, frankly, I don't understand it. I don't think the subject is particularly interesting. But I did want to describe what Robert referred to above, the surprise that can come from turning a page in a musty old stack of papers.

That said, I have to confess that although I've found quite a few surprising documents over the years, I cannot recall many of them off the top of my head. I do remember about two years ago finding a CIA document proposing an SR-71 flight across the Soviet Union intended to provoke them to turn on their radars. It never happened, but it was still a bold proposal.

Perhaps the most interesting documentary finds I've made in the past few years were at the National Archives, where I discovered a document indicating that CIA official Richard Bissell, who ran both the U-2 and Corona programs, was also the person who first proposed using a scientific satellite to establish the concept of "freedom of space." Another fascinating discovery was a document indicating that the CIA flew reconnaissance balloons over the USSR in the 1960s, long after the US government had agreed to stop doing so. I am now convinced that the CIA had some highly classified high altitude balloon programs during this period.

The Saddam document that I described is historically uninteresting. What made it so notable for me was that it was at the top of the stack in the folder. I opened up the folder and--Wow!--there it was, totally unexpected.

Dwayne Day
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posted 12-21-2006 10:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 413 is in:
An example from Iran:
This is in sharp contrast to the dialog that has come out of Iran in recent weeks.

We forget today, but Iran was a VERY close American ally during the 1970s. They were given access to front-line Americna military equipment.

It's an important factor to consider when evaluating the history of the relationship between the US and Iran. There are a lot of people who like to claim that the US "made" the Iranian revolution by supporting the Shah (an argument that I don't buy myself). But the US had good reasons to support the Shah, since he was a rare close ally in a critical part of the world. The United States would have been stupid to shun him. Sometimes in international affairs you don't get to pick your friends, you do the best that you can.

[Edited by Dwayne Day (December 21, 2006).]

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 12-21-2006 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dwayne Day:
We forget today, but Iran was a VERY close Americna ally during the 1970s. They were given access to front-line Americna military equipment.

In the current days when other countries are flying the F-15 and F-16 fighters, what's the only other country that has flown the F-14, once the US Navy's premiere air superiority fighter? Iran.

ejectr
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posted 12-21-2006 12:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ejectr   Click Here to Email ejectr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah...but you need a U.S. Naval Aviator to make an F14 fly like an F14.

Dwayne Day
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posted 12-21-2006 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
In the current days when other countries are flying the F-15 and F-16 fighters, what's the only other country that has flown the F-14, once the US Navy's premiere air superiority fighter? Iran.

A month ago I poked around on Google Earth looking at Iranian military airfields to see if I could spot the F-14s. I think I found three of them, but the most likely airfield had a lot of hardened shelters that probably contain more.

Dwayne Day
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posted 12-21-2006 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ejectr:
Yeah...but you need a U.S. Naval Aviator to make an F14 fly like an F14.

What you really need are maintenance guys. I'm a big fan of the F-14 myself, but it's clear that the thing was a real maintenance pig. The avionics went down ALL THE TIME. Naval aviators are very fond of the latest versions of the F-18 because they don't break down nearly at all. Apparently the planes require little maintenance while at sea. Not so the F-14.

As for the Iranian F-14s, there is a bit of controversy as to how well the Iranians have been able to maintain them. The stories that have come out of the US Navy--that none of the planes have flown since the early 1980s--are completely false, as proven by photographs from the 1990s showing F-14s in flight, as well as the Google Earth images I mentioned. If the planes have been useless for nearly two decades, why the heck are there some still parked at Iranian airfields in satellite images taken only a few years ago?

The real issue is _how many_ the Iranians have flying. There is a good book on this by authors Cooper and Bishop. You can look it up on Amazon. I think that they may vastly overestimate the Iranian capability (a recent Aviation Week article threw a lot of cold water on the subject of the Iranian air force), but clearly they are right about the Iranians having _some_ capability.

Dwayne Day
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posted 12-21-2006 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On the subject of the declassification of documents, there is an interesting article in today's New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/21/washington/21declassify.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 12-21-2006 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dwayne Day:
What you really need are maintenance guys. I'm a big fan of the F-14 myself, but it's clear that the thing was a real maintenance pig. The avionics went down ALL THE TIME. Naval aviators are very fond of the latest versions of the F-18 because they don't break down nearly at all. Apparently the planes require little maintenance while at sea. Not so the F-14.

As for the Iranian F-14s, there is a bit of controversy as to how well the Iranians have been able to maintain them. The stories that have come out of the US Navy--that none of the planes have flown since the early 1980s--are completely false, as proven by photographs from the 1990s showing F-14s in flight, as well as the Google Earth images I mentioned. If the planes have been useless for nearly two decades, why the heck are there some still parked at Iranian airfields in satellite images taken only a few years ago?

The real issue is _how many_ the Iranians have flying. There is a good book on this by authors Cooper and Bishop. You can look it up on Amazon. I think that they may vastly overestimate the Iranian capability (a recent Aviation Week article threw a lot of cold water on the subject of the Iranian air force), but clearly they are right about the Iranians having _some_ capability.


Off-topic for this post, but I seem to recall - in the Daily Star of Oneonta, NY, of all places, in the 1987-90 time period - that there was an article about this, that when Grumman techs left Iran, so did a significant portion of the usefulness of the Iranian F-14s. I seem to recall also that the article made a claim that the techs also disabled or "unabled" many of the Phoenix missiles associated with the F-14s, leaving the Iranians with essentially a plane useful mostly as a radar platform.

As for the F-14 being a maintenance pig, well, it _was_ designed in the early '70s, but that's another topic....

KSCartist
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posted 12-21-2006 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We've also enjoyed close relationships with Sadam Hussein ( I remember seeing a photo of Rumsfeld and Saddam taken in the 1970's). We also supported Ferdinand Marcos and a few leaders turned dictators in South America.

We can only hope to get along with other countries when our interests help each other.
We cannot control when leaders go bad and start murdering their own citizens. (Although we should do much more to stop them when they do.) Unfortunately, the Impossible Missions Force is only in the movies.

Tim

taneal1
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posted 12-21-2006 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for taneal1   Click Here to Email taneal1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dwayne Day:
On the subject of the declassification of documents[/URL]

Dwayne,

Thanks for the link! I wasn't aware of this policy. *Some* things must be classified, but after 25 years of advances it's extrememly difficult to believe that technology-type data warrants continued "classified" status.

Historical (political) data is the real goldmine of info to be released. As a *FREE* country, the citizens of the US deserve to know what transpired behind official doors in many, MANY policy decisions. The truth, or what was at the time believed to be the truth, would reveal the actual motivation behind critical presidential actions, or inactions.

As an example, the development of "stealth" aircraft was touted as a necessity to maintain parity with the USSR. (I am *intentionally* ignoring the debate as to whether stealth remained a necessity regardless of the USSR's intentions.) My understanding is that recent Soviet documents state that "stealth aircraft" development was deemed so expensive that the USSR concluded no one would ever build them. If this is true, was this fact known to Carter who cancelled the B-1, and Reagan who re-instated it?

CAC
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posted 12-21-2006 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CAC   Click Here to Email CAC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The thing about history is that you get to view the totality of events through the prespective of time. 20 years makes a huge difference when we take into account all the different factors and events that occurred during and after an event happens. It takes dedicated people like Dwayne to help put it all into context.
Good job!

Dwayne Day
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posted 12-21-2006 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
Off-topic for this post, but I seem to recall - in the Daily Star of Oneonta, NY, of all places, in the 1987-90 time period - that there was an article about this, that when Grumman techs left Iran, so did a significant portion of the usefulness of the Iranian F-14s. I seem to recall also that the article made a claim that the techs also disabled or "unabled" many of the Phoenix missiles associated with the F-14s, leaving the Iranians with essentially a plane useful mostly as a radar platform.

Yeah, we're off-topic, but I'll get back on in a couple of posts.

Yes, what you posted above is a common claim about the Iranian F-14s. However, there is reason to believe that it is exaggerated. Look at the Cooper and Bishop book I mentioned ("Iranian F-14 Units in Combat," around $16 on Amazon.com). As the authors explain, the Iranians had many trained people and a LOT of spares. They were able to press a number of aircraft back into service in a relatively short period of time.

What's fascinating to me about this subject is that the revolutionaries set about deliberately purging many of the pilots and other military people who had worked with the Americans. But then when the war with Iraq started, they needed those same people and so they pressed them back into service. Cooper and Bishop claim that many F-14 aviators fled the country and others were jailed. When the war started, the aviators were then forced to fight, but they were not completely trusted. The authors also point out that there were a lot of educated people in the military. It was not a first-rate military, but it was pretty good for the Middle East. The authors claim that if the Americans were able to "disable" the weapons systems in some aircraft (which they doubt) the Iranians found a way to work around it.

Dwayne Day
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posted 12-21-2006 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KSCartist:
We've also enjoyed close relationships with Sadam Hussein ( I remember seeing a photo of Rumsfeld and Saddam taken in the 1970's). We also supported Ferdinand Marcos and a few leaders turned dictators in South America.

True. But I think that the relationship with the Shah was MUCH closer than it was with other Middle Eastern leaders. The US relationship with Saddam was always relatively tenuous. That's why the Iraqi military bought Soviet and French equipment, whereas the Iranians bought top-line American equipment like F-4s and F-14s during the 1970s.

Dwayne Day
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posted 12-21-2006 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by taneal1:
Thanks for the link! I wasn't aware of this policy. *Some* things must be classified, but after 25 years of advances it's extrememly difficult to believe that technology-type data warrants continued "classified" status.

Actually, I think you can make the case that some technology data is important to keep classified for decades. There are some "fact-of" things that are important to conceal. For instance, suppose that there is a form of communications that is widely believed to be impossible to intercept, but the Department of Defense have discovered a means to intercept. The very fact that it can be intercepted could be an important secret to preserve, because while the other side might not know _how_ you are intercepting it, the fact that you can do it would drive them to conceal their communications in other ways.

In 1997 the National Reconnaissance Office (just to bring this thread back onto a space subject) declared that the post-Corona film return technology was obsolete and no longer sensitive. They declared that it could be declassified. Yet some other people disagreed and as a result we are almost ten years later and the post-Corona systems have not been declassified. I think this is an example where somebody (probably in CIA) is using their veto power to prevent obviously obsolete technology information from becoming public. After all, the first Gambit satellites operated from 1963-1967 and it's silly that they have not been declassified.

A few months ago I heard that NRO was working hard to comply with this directive for declassifying materials. But I also heard that what they release will not be all that interesting.

Dwayne Day
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posted 12-21-2006 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CAC:
The thing about history is that you get to view the totality of events through the prespective of time. 20 years makes a huge difference when we take into account all the different factors and events that occurred during and after an event happens.

I saw a quote somewhere that said "In the midst of events there is no perspective." This is true. We really don't know how to connect the data to get an accurate idea of what is happening. Plus, we lack data that is necessary to make assessments.

This is certainly true in the space field. I predict that when the shuttle is finished in 2010, there will be a ton of retrospective stories about how it was a "mistake" to build it. But that's a highly simplistic way of assessing the shuttle legacy. It will not be until 2020 or later that people will be able to make more rational and balanced judgements of the shuttle legacy. It just takes time.

spacecraft films
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posted 12-21-2006 05:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dwayne,

Loved the piece as I come across motion picture items that are just as surprising from time to time.

You put forth a great description of what research is like, except in our case it moves another few steps to a moviola or VCR and then a 3rd party lab for a transfer.

As for NARA, I have to get used to the new pull times...

10:00, 11:00, 1:30 and 2:30.

And I really don't like the cutback on the Tuesday/Thursday late hours.

Mark

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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posted 12-21-2006 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dwayne Day:
Actually, I think you can make the case that some technology data is important to keep classified for decades. There are some "fact-of" things that are important to conceal.

I mentioned earlier that when I was in my teens in the '80s, and into spacemodeling (e.g., ,model rocketry) I naively asked Boeing for info on the X-20 as I thought that would be cool to make and fly (or at least, attempt to make: my scratchbuilding skills are nil). The answer I got back was that info on the X-20 was still classified.

ea757grrl
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posted 12-21-2006 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ea757grrl   Click Here to Email ea757grrl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for posting that, Dwayne. It was an excellent article, and I know full well the experiences you've gone through, but so many of those frustrations can be made worthwhile by that moment of discovery.

Saddam's note of condolence about Challenger reminds me of a clip from an interview Walter Cronkite did with Lyndon Johnson, featured in the "Cronkite Remembers" series. LBJ was talking about how he sent copies of one of the "Earthrise" pictures from Apollo 8 to heads of state around the world. As he told Cronkite about this, he showed Cronkite one note of acknowledgement in particular: a card from Ho Chi Minh.

jodie

[Edited by ea757grrl (December 21, 2006).]

albatron@aol.com
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posted 12-22-2006 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for albatron@aol.com   Click Here to Email albatron@aol.com     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is an excellent example (Ho Chi Minh) as to how hindsight in dealing with history is far different than dealing with it at the time.

Post WW1 Woodrow Wilson spoke of "self determination" ie any Country with unique geography,and a common culture, ethnicity and language should be their own Country. He was attempting to reduce Coloniziation which was big at the time.

Ho Chi Minh approached the Wilson delegation at the post war conferences asking they help free Viet Nam from French rule. He was ignored.

Later at the post WWII conferences he approached the Truman Administration with the same request. He felt Truman may listen as he was a subscriber to Wilsons points of view. He was once again rebuffed.

The rest is history: Stalin did NOT rebuff him and later, the Viet Nam war began.

Coulda shoulda woulda, eh?

By the way this is NOT an apologist view of Minh - he was a brutal and horrible person.

Dwayne Day
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posted 12-22-2006 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by albatron@aol.com:
Post WW1 Woodrow Wilson spoke of "self determination" ie any Country with unique geography,and a common culture, ethnicity and language should be their own Country. He was attempting to reduce Coloniziation which was big at the time.

Ho Chi Minh approached the Wilson delegation at the post war conferences asking they help free Viet Nam from French rule. He was ignored.

Later at the post WWII conferences he approached the Truman Administration with the same request. He felt Truman may listen as he was a subscriber to Wilsons points of view. He was once again rebuffed.

The rest is history: Stalin did NOT rebuff him and later, the Viet Nam war began.

Coulda shoulda woulda, eh?


Actually, I believe that recent scholarship has demonstrated that Ho took money from Stalin before he approached the West. I don't know the details, but around 2002 or so I attended a lecture at George Washington University (where I got my Ph.D. and where I recently taught a class in space policy) and somebody was showing off documents that they had recently obtained from Russian archives. One was a receipt for $1 million from the Soviet Union and signed by Ho Chi Minh. I don't remember the date, but the speaker pointed out that it was conclusive proof that Ho had received Soviet aid before he ever approached the West. Equally significant was the large amount, which the speaker said demonstrated that clearly there must have been some kind of quid pro quo: Stalin would not have given $1 million to somebody for no reason and clearly expected something and/or trusted Ho to be a good communist.

The only other details that I remember are that Ho had gone to Moscow via train. If you can find out the dates that he went there, that's when he got the money. I'm sure that you can find info on this with a little searching. The GWU Cold War History Project is a good place to start.

Dwayne Day
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posted 12-22-2006 09:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spacecraft films:
Loved the piece as I come across motion picture items that are just as surprising from time to time.

A few years ago a friend was in town and wanted to look at some old USAF space films at NARA. I went with him and we went through a number of them. Nothing terribly interesting (they had all turned pink with time), until we came across a bit of footage that we had never seen before--a range tracking ship deploying a balloon and a cable that was snatched by a passing aircraft, which winched up a data capsule from the ship's deck. I was totally unaware that they did that.

A couple of weeks ago, on the same trip when I went to the Reagan Library, I talked to somebody who told me about an old Air Force pilot he knew who used to fly Corona recovery flights. Something that I did not know was that in addition to catching the capsule, these flights were also responsible for recovering data cannisters from the range tracking ship on the same mission. So two catches on the same mission! (I suspect that this story might be apocryphal, since I'm not sure you would want to use the same plane to do both. They did use at least nine recovery planes per mission.)

Dwayne Day
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posted 12-22-2006 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spacecraft films:
As for NARA, I have to get used to the new pull times...
10:00, 11:00, 1:30 and 2:30.
And I really don't like the cutback on the Tuesday/Thursday late hours.

The cutbacks have not been popular for researchers. I have not gotten out to the Archives II facility much now that I have a full-time job in the policy field (as opposed to contractor jobs as a historian).

For those of you unfamiliar with this, the National Archives (NARA) has facilities around the country, but two main facilities in Washington, DC. There is the old building downtown, which primarily houses pre-WWII records, and a newer facility (about 10 years old) called Archives II located in a DC suburb called College Park, Maryland (accessible by Metro and a shuttle bus). I've used only US archives, but foreign friends who have visited have said that Archives II is an outstanding facility compared to what they are used to in places like Britain. Archives II is open and airy and has big windows and a cafeteria and is a pleasant place to work. They also have helpful staff and, until recently, they had great hours. But budget cutbacks have reduced their hours. That story has been covered in the Washington Post:

quote:
Researchers Feel the Pinch Of National Archives Cuts
By Jacqueline Trescott
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, November 11, 2006; C01

The National Archives has drastically curtailed its evening and weekend hours, a move that will make life tougher for thousands of authors, historians and other researchers.

The Archives is the chief repository for federal records. Faced with rising costs, Chief Archivist Allen Weinstein and senior staff reduced the hours that research rooms are open by a third at both the Archives building on Pennsylvania Avenue NW and the massive Archives II center in College Park. The changes took effect Oct. 2.

Independent researcher Orah Hurst is one of those affected. She has spent a dozen years combing through the records of Navy ships for lawyers representing people who developed lung cancer after working with asbestos. Until last month she hired students and other freelancers to help dig through papers and copy essential documents during the Archives' evening hours.

"I had three people, sometimes four people, who worked in the [evening and weekend] hours. Now I don't have that," Hurst says.

Researchers who depend on the Archives for firsthand, intimate use of its billions of government records are also dismayed by a reduction in the number of times during the day that researchers can request materials. Most days, researchers can ask for documents four times. In the past, it was five.

Archives officials say they made the cuts to eliminate an anticipated $12 million budget gap created by rising expenses, including paying for heightened security requirements that were imposed after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

[remainder snipped]


[Edited by collectSPACE Admin (December 22, 2006).]

kyra
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From: Louisville CO US
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 12-22-2006 09:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kyra   Click Here to Email kyra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As for the Saddam letter it seems even despots can have a good moment now and then.

Iran's F-14's - yes they can be a tricky to maintain, but less so if they are not as concerned with mil spec or safety issues.

Declassified after 25 yrs. - does this put the records of STS-4 and all the "coded" phrases into the light "No joy on Step 3 Bravo.". (Classified Cue Cards)That would be a good test of this program as far as space is concerned. In the next ten years we could learn about all these missions; 51C, 51J, 27, 28, 36, 33, etc.

Dwayne Day
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Posts: 532
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Registered: Feb 2004

posted 12-27-2006 08:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwayne Day   Click Here to Email Dwayne Day     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kyra:
Declassified after 25 yrs. - does this put the records of STS-4 and all the "coded" phrases into the light "No joy on Step 3 Bravo.". (Classified Cue Cards)That would be a good test of this program as far as space is concerned. In the next ten years we could learn about all these missions; 51C, 51J, 27, 28, 36, 33, etc.

Unlikely. Intelligence agencies have what is called an "operational records exemption." It exempts anything that they deem to be "operational." Naturally, they determine that a lot of things fall into this category.

All times are CT (US)

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