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Author
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Topic: Apollo crews in lunar module on launch pad
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-16-2016 10:33 AM
  
The Apollo 14 rollout to pad 39A was on November 9, 1970. The following excerpt is from the KSC "Apollo 14 Status Report" dated December 7, 1970: On Wednesday, Dec. 9, Shepard and Mitchell will take part in a lunar module mission simulation checkout with the Launch Complex 39A crew. The crewmen will be in the LM on the pad for the exercise. After rollout, which pre-launch tests required the CDR and LMP to be in the LM at the pad? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-19-2016 09:25 AM
The Apollo 17 rollout was on August 28, 1972. The crew training schedule has Cernan and Schmitt participating in these two post-rollout LM tests: - "LM Mission Sim, Pad" on October 4
- "LM A/S C2F2, Pad" on October 18
C2F2 is a crew compartment fit and function test. Is the Mission Sim the LM Flight Readiness Test? |
dabolton
Member Posts: 419
From: Seneca, IL, US
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 01-19-2016 08:39 PM
How was the LEM even accessible at the pad; was there an access door on the stage panel? Was it normal to require inspection of the LEM after it was packed and mated to the launch vehicle? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 51497
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-19-2016 08:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dabolton:
How was the LEM even accessible at the pad; was there an access door on the stage panel?
Dan Schaiewitz recently addressed these questions in the thread, My personal Apollo story. Access into the LM was provided through the horizontally located "forward hatch" via a horizontal "bridge" from the gantry elevator. The entry from the elevator exit to the open LM forward hatch was covered to provide a "clean room" environment. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-20-2016 01:35 AM
Apollo 14 backup LMP Joe Engle was at the pad for LM stowage and LM closeout activities prior to launch. |
Space Cadet Carl
Member Posts: 305
From: Lake Orion, MI
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 01-20-2016 07:53 AM
Don't forget that the commemorative plaques were sometimes attached to the front landing leg of the LM just a few hours before launch! If I recall, the Apollo 11 plaque saying "Here men from the planet Earth....." was installed the night before the launch. I believe the American flag assembly was sometimes attached to the ladder at the last minute too. |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1855
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 01-20-2016 08:54 AM
I believe the access was done while the Mobile Service Structure (MSS) was in place. The access door on the SLA to the LM can be seen in the following images: 1 | 2 | 3. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-20-2016 10:12 AM
This SA-500F photo is a good view of swingarm number 7 and the S-IVB/SLA area. On later vehicles, I think they used the access door on the Instrument Unit to reach the LM descent stage and install the plaque on the landing gear ladder.The SLA access door location at top right (-Z position) is the one that lined up with the LM forward hatch on later vehicles. Not seen in the 500F photo is a LM ingress platform to reach the SLA door. |
DeepSea
Member Posts: 69
From:
Registered: Jun 2014
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posted 01-21-2016 05:34 AM
I was reading Don Peterson's JSC Oral History not so long ago, and in it, he mentions having to go into Apollo 16's LM on the pad in order to change out flash light batteries. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-21-2016 08:02 AM
I guess the LM cabin closeout photos were taken on the launch pad.Notice in the closeout photos that the forward hatch is removed. It would appear that the hatch could not be opened and closed with the PLSS and helmets in their stowed positions on the floor. |
garymilgrom
Member Posts: 2131
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 01-21-2016 04:18 PM
Thanks for those photos Jim. LM-12 your photo seems to show a lower door - its certainly not fully contained in the SLA. Perhaps the fit-check vehicle was not finalized in this area yet? |
Paul78zephyr
Member Posts: 803
From: Hudson, MA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-21-2016 08:58 PM
Are there any pics that show the ingress platform used to reach the SLA door? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-21-2016 09:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by garymilgrom:
...your photo seems to show a lower door - its certainly not fully contained in the SLA.
The -Y access door is in the Instrument Unit, not the SLA. Same for the later vehicles. This door was used to get to the LM descent stage. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-21-2016 10:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Paul78zephyr:
Are there any pics that show the ingress platform used to reach the SLA door?
I have never seen a good photo of the LM ingress platform, and I certainly have never seen a photo of the platform in place at the SLA door. Apollo 11 photo 69-H-1050 is a great image because it shows a lot. You can see the SLA door that lines up with the LM forward hatch. You can see an MSS platform at the level of the SLA door. And you can see LUT swing arm 7. I believe the white section at the end of that swing arm is a LM ingress platform.
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-22-2016 10:35 AM
Found this diagram of the S-IVB FWD swing arm 7 for access to the IU and LM. |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1855
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 01-22-2016 02:45 PM
Just a note, remember that RCS exhaust deflector panels were added to the decent stage while at the pad.The access would have looked like this. After all, how would workers get out after mate? |
Paul78zephyr
Member Posts: 803
From: Hudson, MA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-22-2016 03:04 PM
So while on the pad access to the LM decent stage was via a door in the IU and swing arm 7 on the LUT, and access to the LM ascent stage/cockpit was via a door in the upper SLA (at 90 degrees to the IU door) and a platform on the MSS — is that correct?What is confusing is the pic posted by Jim seems to show two access doors in the IU (or IU/S-IVB interface) — one at the swing arm and another in the foreground 90 degrees from the swing arm. Or is the one in the foreground not really a door? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-22-2016 09:41 PM
In the photo, the smooth black section is the IU with an access door at the swing arm. The corrugated black and white section below that is the S-IVB forward skirt which does not have a similar access door. Just vents and antennas ... etc.Notice that located beside the swing arm 7 catwalk there is a smaller platform with white railings. I thought that might be the horizontal bridge that Dan was referring to earlier. |
rlobinske
Member Posts: 178
From: Crawfordville, FL
Registered: Oct 2014
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posted 01-23-2016 07:25 AM
Remember that at launch, the crew hatches for the CM and LM faced opposite directions. The visible CM crew hatch faced the -Z direction (position I on the launch vehicle) and the LM egress hatch faced the +Z direction (position III) while the LUT and access arms were on the -Y (position II) side of the vehicle. The crew access arm approached the vehicle from the position II side and then kind of wrapped around to cover the position I CM hatch. The access hatch on the IU was at position II on the vehicle while the SLA had two access hatches at position I and III, allowing crews to work on both sides of the LM ascent stage via the work platforms on the MSS.I hope that was clear. |
rlobinske
Member Posts: 178
From: Crawfordville, FL
Registered: Oct 2014
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posted 01-23-2016 07:28 AM
Almost forgot. There was also an access hatch to the lower SLA slightly offset from position II that would have been reached via arm 7. The position I and III hatches were on the SLA petals. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-23-2016 08:07 AM
Could the LM cabin be accessed from the LUT, or only from the MSS platforms? |
rlobinske
Member Posts: 178
From: Crawfordville, FL
Registered: Oct 2014
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posted 01-23-2016 09:19 AM
Based on the positions of the three SLA access hatches, I would say from the MSS. The lower hatch would open in front of Quad IV of the LM descent stage and a worker would have to climb up and over to reach the egress platform. That hatch would be the best access to the MESA. The Position III hatch would be just above the egress platform (about centered on the LM docking light), so you would basically step down to the egress platform. |
NukeGuy
Member Posts: 109
From: Irvine, CA USA
Registered: May 2014
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posted 01-23-2016 09:29 AM
I suppose this was how the Plutonium-238 fuel cask that powered the surface experiments was loaded onto the LM several hours prior to launch. The Plutonium fuel was quite hot from radioactive decay - several hundred degrees F. I believe Al Bean remarked that he could feel the heat from the cask through his suit while deploying it on the surface. I know that there were concerns about the heat generated in the SLA enclosure with the presence of fuel in the LM.If there had been a way to tap the power generated from the fuel cask during flight, Apollo 13 might have had a slightly easier time. They would have appreciated an extra 70 watts. |
Space Cadet Carl
Member Posts: 305
From: Lake Orion, MI
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 01-23-2016 09:39 AM
So, we have to assume that the commemorative plaque and the American flag assembly were mounted to the LM ladder before the MSS was rolled away. This is interesting. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-23-2016 10:07 AM
The Apollo 11 Press Kit has the LM stowage and cabin closeout ending at T-15 hours, and the MSS moving off the pad at T-10 hours. |
rlobinske
Member Posts: 178
From: Crawfordville, FL
Registered: Oct 2014
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posted 01-23-2016 10:17 AM
The plaque was installed on the +Z leg near the bottom of the ladder and below the egress platform, so that would probably have been accessed from the lower hatch, which would be much closer to that level. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-23-2016 10:23 AM
So the plaque could have been installed after the MSS left the pad. |
moonguyron
Member Posts: 191
From: Trinity, FL USA
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 01-23-2016 11:35 AM
The following is an abbreviated close out sequence extracted from the book "Countdown to a Moon Launch." This refers to the LM on Apollo 11. Many other launch vehicle items, not mentioned here, were attended to simultaneously. And the sequence of some items may have been adjusted on later flights. - 28:00 (time remaining) Countdown officially begins with the installation of 14 flight batteries each weighing 165 pounds.
- 21:30 Prior to SLA closeout the SLA and IU area were cleared so personnel could top off the LM's supercritical helium tank.
- 21:00 Technicians install access steps to the LM inside the SLA to install the final flight items.
- 19:00 LM SHe tank top off complete.
- 18:00 Lunar Contact switches on main landing gear pads were checked.
The following does not have a strict timeline but falls between 18:00 and 13:15 time remaining in the count. LM Closeout-Installed the flag carrier and the plaque. On all missions after Apollo 11 the plutonium canister to power the radiothermal generator was loaded. Cooling provided. - 13:15 Work on LM complete, platforms removed from SLA.
- 10:50 MSS ready to be retracted
- 10:15 MSS begins rollback.
- 9:00 Countdown enters a 6 hour preplanned hold.
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-24-2016 10:22 AM
Also done at the pad: extra thermal insulation added to the LM-5 landing gear, and installation of the EASEP (Early Apollo Surface Experiments Package) in the descent stage.An ALSJ comment here mentions that the LM closeout photos were taken at the pad with some photos showing SLA platforms outside the LM hatch. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-25-2016 09:10 AM
The Apollo 15 LM crews at the pad from the schedules:- "LM Mission Sim, Pad 39" on June 9 ... Gordon-Schmitt and Scott-Irwin
- "LM C2F2, Pad 39" on June 14 ... Scott-Irwin and Gordon-Schmitt
The schedule had Gordon on the LLTV at Ellington AFB in Houston on the morning of June 14, and then on the pad at the Cape in the afternoon. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-26-2016 10:22 AM
Looking at this transposition and docking photo, I can only imagine how cramped it must have been working inside the SLA on the pad. Another item installed at the pad: the LM porch / egress platform. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-28-2016 09:16 AM
The schedule had the Apollo 11 crew training at pad 39A on June 10: CM CCFF photo caption: The Apollo 11 crew conducting a crew compartment fit and functional check, of the equipment and storage locations, in their command module. Peering from the hatch are from left, Neil Armstrong, commander; Michael Collins, command module pilot; and Buzz Aldrin, lunar module pilot. Armstrong and Aldrin later conducted a similar check aboard the lunar module, which carried them down to the lunar surface on July 20, 1969. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3741
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-28-2016 05:36 PM
Good topic questions, however, while at the pad with a Saturn V atop, the MSS provides access to those portions of the launch vehicle which cannot be serviced from the ML (or LUT). This would include servicing a lunar module.I think there were five access-work platforms from an "on pad" MSS that could be used by personnel needing vehicle access, but usually not after 11 hours before a scheduled liftoff time (unless there was an emergency requirement). Of the five MSS access work platforms, two were self-propelled, with two being fixed. The top three enclosed access platforms served the spacecraft section (lunar module included while inside the SLA), while two of the lowest platforms could be adjusted vertically to serve different hardware parts of a stacked Apollo spacecraft while on the pad. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-28-2016 09:26 PM
Ken, do you know if the CDR and LMP were ever suited up in the LM at the pad? |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3741
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-29-2016 06:33 AM
Good question, however, I am trying to think back to all that I have heard and read about concerning this topic.Apollo crewmembers (rather prime, backup, or support) did have the access to a lunar module fitted inside a SLA while at the pad, which we already know. The #3 upper clamshell-like platform of the MSS (it was the lowest of the three upper enclosed platform areas), serviced the SLA and lunar module. While it did contain an environmentally controlled work area, I just can't recall any Apollo astronauts ever being suited up for a LM test or simulation while inside the SLA. Unless there was an urgent reason to have a LM crew suit up for such an exercise on the pad, I don't recall if such a crew-involved sim-test or check run had to be performed like this while inside the SLA. I think it would require more personnel and support equipment nearby, hooked-up in some cases to various LM operating systems, and lots of monitoring resources. With a LM situated so tightly inside a SLA and limited to other access areas, not to mention many other restrictions put in place while a Saturn is on the pad, I just can't see it happening. Of course, I could be dead wrong, and maybe someone "that was there" might be able to answer the question more accurately. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-29-2016 11:58 AM
It appears that the prime/backup CDR and LMP were in the LM at the pad for at least two events: the Mission Sim and the CCFF check. The astronauts were not suited in the CM CCFF photo above. That would suggest they were not suited for the LM CCFF either. Maybe they were suited for one of these tests at the pad: - LM combined systems test
- LM Mission Sim
- LM flight readiness test
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-30-2016 10:01 AM
The "LM combined systems test" was done in the VAB for Apollo 9-12 and at the pad for Apollo 13-17. |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1855
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 01-30-2016 02:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
Maybe they were suited for one of these tests at the pad...
Those are all electrical tests. No need for the crew to be suited for any of those tests at the pad. The fitcheck with the suits was done in the MSOB. The CCFF is to see the final configuration of the cabin and to see the stowage. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3741
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-30-2016 03:14 PM
My thinking as well, Jim, as there were only about 5 check/fit/sim runs at KSC that required a suited up crew or crewmember to participate within the last few months before an Apollo launch. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3854
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-31-2016 12:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
The #3 upper clamshell-like platform of the MSS (it was the lowest of the three upper enclosed platform areas), serviced the SLA and lunar module.
Apollo 11 photo S69-38658 is the best image I have seen of that area. |
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