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  Mercury, Gemini, Apollo capsules seen together (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Mercury, Gemini, Apollo capsules seen together
LM-12
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posted 03-08-2012 10:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA photo S65-65948 is an interesting post-flight image that shows the Gemini 7 and Gemini 6A spacecraft together in the same photo.

Another example is NASA photo KSC-69P-0204 which shows both the Apollo 11 CSM and Apollo 12 CSM in the same photo.

Have you come across any other Mercury, Gemini or Apollo images that show spacecraft from different missions in the same photo?

ilbasso
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posted 03-08-2012 08:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suppose that some of the "assembly line" photos at Bethpage would qualify, as they show several LMs in various stages of completion.

LM-12
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posted 03-08-2012 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sure. I would like to see some of those. Here is another one:

NASA photo KSC-70PC-537 shows both the Apollo 14 LM and Apollo 15 LM in the Manned Spacecraft Operations Building in October 1970.

ilbasso
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posted 03-08-2012 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The book "Building Moonships: The Grumman Lunar Module" has some great photos of the facility and LMs under construction. There are a couple of smaller versions of the photos at this site.

LM-12
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posted 07-25-2013 09:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is S65-65948 in high-resolution.

ilbasso
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posted 07-27-2013 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
NASA photo KSC-70PC-537 shows both the Apollo 14 LM and Apollo 15 LM in the Manned Spacecraft Operations Building in October 1970.
Is the Apollo 15 LM depicted in this photo LM-9, the LM that didn't fly? The flight LM for Apollo 15, LM-10, wasn't mated in the MSOB until February 1971, by which time Apollo 14 had already flown.

J.L
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posted 07-27-2013 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for J.L   Click Here to Email J.L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Photos I have of the Apollo 15 LM show the ascent stage being delivered to KSC in June of 1970. I am pretty confident that the photo you are referring to shows LM-8 and LM-10.

LM-12
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posted 07-28-2013 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This Lunar Module Checkout History chart includes both LM-8 and LM-10. The Apollo 14 spacecraft with LM-8 was moved to the VAB on November 4, 1970. The LM-10 ascent stage was delivered to KSC on November 6, 1970. The LM-10 descent stage was delivered to KSC on November 16, 1970.

Based on the chart, that cannot be LM-8 and LM-10 in photo KSC-70PC-537.

LM-12
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posted 07-28-2013 06:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is the caption for KSC-70PC-537 in the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal:

The Apollo 14 Lunar Module (right) undergoes checkout with Apollo 15's LM-10 in the background. 16 October 1970. Scan by J.L. Pickering.

LM-12
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posted 07-31-2013 08:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The engine skirt seen in the photo might be a clue. The descent stage engine skirt nozzle was extended 10 inches for the "J" mission flights. The LM on the overhead crane looks like it has an "H" mission engine skirt to me.

Skylon
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posted 08-09-2013 09:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Skylon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Posted on Retrospace on Facebook - the Mercury and Gemini spacecraft are probably mockups. What is really interesting is what looks to be an under construction (or at least another mockup) of the Skylab airlock.

LM-12
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posted 12-08-2013 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The original Apollo 15 "H" mission with LM-9 was cancelled on September 2, 1970. If the October 1970 photo date is correct, I figure the image shows LM-8 and LM-9. So I would agree with what ilbasso said earlier.

LM-12
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posted 09-09-2014 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Photo S69-15690 shows the Apollo 9 spacecraft and the Apollo 10 S-IC first stage in the VAB transfer aisle in December 1968. Apollo 9 was stacked in High Bay 3, and Apollo 10 in High Bay 2.

Lou Chinal
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posted 09-10-2014 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lou Chinal   Click Here to Email Lou Chinal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know of one photo you can take today. It's in the McDonnell prologue room in St. Louis. The prototypes of Mercury, Gemini and Skylab are together.

LM-12
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posted 09-10-2014 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Harder to find are images of manned vehicles from different missions that may have crossed paths as they were prepared for flight. Or shortly after flight, like the 1965 Gemini photo.

canyon42
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posted 09-10-2014 08:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for canyon42   Click Here to Email canyon42     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I suppose this technically qualifies.

LM-12
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posted 09-10-2014 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Museum photos would be the first examples that come to mind, but I was thinking more in terms of images like this showing the Apollo 17 spacecraft and the Skylab 2 first stage together in the same shot. Photo is dated August 23, 1972.

LM-12
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posted 11-27-2014 01:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The S-IC stages seen in this Michoud assembly facility photo are identified in the Saturn Illustrated Chronology as S-IC-8, S-IC-4 and S-IC-6. The corresponding flights would be Apollo 13, Apollo 9 and Apollo 11.

The Apollo Image Gallery identifies the stages as S-IC-10, S-IC-11 and S-IC-9. Those corresponding flights would be Apollo 15, Apollo 16 and Apollo 14.

I would say that the Apollo Image Gallery is correct. Great photo.

(The fourth S-IC at the far end might be Apollo 17.)

LM-12
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posted 11-28-2014 09:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
These three S-IVB stages at the Douglas test facility in Sacramento are identified as S-IVB-205, S-IVB-206 and S-IVB-207. So the corresponding flights would be Apollo 7, Skylab 2 and Skylab 3.

LM-12
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posted 12-01-2014 04:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From what I can gather regarding the S-IC photos at Michoud:
  • photo 6760490 shows S-IC-8, S-IC-4 and S-IC-6
  • photo 6870792 shows S-IC-10, S-IC-11 and S-IC-9
The photo linked earlier is 6870792 and is dated October 1, 1968.

Here is another view of the S-IC stages taken on the same day. In the background, from left to right: Apollo 15, Apollo 16, Apollo 14 and probably Apollo 17.

Rohan
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posted 11-03-2015 04:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rohan   Click Here to Email Rohan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
Here is another view of the S-IC stages taken on the same day.
Not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but looking at the S-IC on the far right, which is the possible first stage for Apollo 17, it appears to have the paintwork seen on SA-500F, i.e. like this picture of the Apollo 4 S-IC.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure the last Saturn V to wear this paintwork was Apollo 6. Yet Apollo 4 and Apollo 6 launched long before this photo was taken.

If these were the only two missions to wear this paintwork, why is the S-IC on the far right painted in the old paintwork? Or am I seeing something that isn't there?

Ronpur
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posted 11-03-2015 06:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could it be a test stage (500D maybe?) that is just housed there and not Apollo 17?

Rohan
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posted 11-03-2015 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rohan   Click Here to Email Rohan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It could be, the first stage of the 500D was never scrapped so it is a possibility. The only thing is I'm not sure why they'd put the old test stage alongside ones that were still under construction.

LM-12
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posted 11-03-2015 10:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It might be the S-IC-F stage. Alan Lawrie mentions in Saturn that S-IC-F was in storage at Michoud from December 1966 to September 1969.

Here is a March 1966 photo of the S-IC-F stage in the VAB. SA-500F was the first vehicle rolled out to Pad 39A.

Rohan
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posted 11-04-2015 12:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rohan   Click Here to Email Rohan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Will have to pick up a copy of Saturn, it looks like an interesting read.

I didn't know that S-IC-F was stored at Michoud. It would explain not only why it's present in the original photo, but also why the stage isn't being worked on.

AlanLawrie
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posted 11-04-2015 06:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AlanLawrie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You beat me to it. I checked my records last night. Photo 6870792 was originally submitted by Boeing to MSFC at the end of October 1968. It's not identified with a date other than it's in the batch of photos sent covering activities in October 1968. The original caption in the October submittal says that it's S-IC-10, S-IC-11 and S-IC-9. It doesn't say but presumably means left to right.

In October 1968 S-IC-10 and S-IC-9 had their engines installed and S-IC-11 did not. This ties up with the photo.

At that time there were two other S-ICs at MAF. S-IC-8 had its engines installed and S-IC-F had no engines. Therefore the stage in the very background must be S-IC-F.

On the same subject of related hardware in my Saturn book I have a photo of the Skylab S-IVB OWS stage and the back-up Skylab S-IVB OWS stage together in the same picture. I have not seen any other picture of these two together. If you want to see various photos of two and three S-IVB stages together then my new book Sacramento's Moon Rockets has a number of these.

dtemple
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posted 11-04-2015 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dtemple   Click Here to Email dtemple     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rohan:
If these were the only two missions to wear this paintwork...
Apollo 8's SI-C also had the early black paint pattern.

Ronpur
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posted 11-04-2015 04:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The back of the stage definitely looks like the S-1C-F from the second picture. I wish the factory photo was a higher resolution. So many details to see in that shot!
quote:
Originally posted by dtemple:
Apollo 8's SI-C also had the early black paint pattern.
They must have done a better job of repainting than was done on Apollo 4.

LM-12
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posted 11-04-2015 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is photo 6870791 in high-resolution.

Rohan
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posted 11-05-2015 12:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rohan   Click Here to Email Rohan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ronpur:
They must have done a better job of repainting than was done on Apollo 4.

It's interesting, Apollo 4 was left in the old paintwork right up until rollout. It's still visible prior to the LES installation. The S-IC for Apollo 8 though can be seen being erected in the VAB without the paintwork.

LM-12
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posted 11-05-2015 12:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SA-500F actually rolled out to pad 39A twice, because of a hurricane. The current location of S-IC-F is unknown, apparently.

Rohan
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posted 11-05-2015 02:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rohan   Click Here to Email Rohan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I contacted the Smithsonian a couple of months back regarding the issue of SA-500F. According to their records, the first stage at the Kennedy Space Center is S-IC-F. According to Wikipedia however, the first stage at KSC is S-IC-T.

I'm not sure which one is actually the case, but it's food for thought.

Ronpur
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posted 11-05-2015 06:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A Field Guide to American Spacecraft says it is S-IC-T at KSC. I had always assume it was S-IC-F. So if it is T, what happened to 500F?

Edit: Actually, I am reading that it was scrapped, after being shipped to Marshal.

AlanLawrie
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posted 11-05-2015 06:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AlanLawrie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know who you contacted at the Smithsonian but they certainly know that the KSC S-IC is the S-IC-T not S-IC-F.

With regards to the painting of the first stage even up to Apollo 10 the first stages were painted with the old "500F" black markings during testing prior to being repainted for flight.

AlanLawrie
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posted 11-05-2015 07:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AlanLawrie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In fact Smithsonian's own on-line catalog confirms the S-IC-T.

LM-12
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posted 11-05-2015 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Lawrie:
In October 1968 S-IC-10 and S-IC-9 had their engines installed and S-IC-11 did not. This ties up with the photo.

The S-IC-11 (Apollo 16) engines were installed around December 1968. Photo 6900732 (on page 183) is a similar Michoud factory photo from August 1969 that shows S-IC-11 back at MAF for repairs and a second set of engines after a test stand engine fire at the Mississippi Test Facility in June 1969.

Rohan
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posted 11-05-2015 03:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rohan   Click Here to Email Rohan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AlanLawrie:
I don't know who you contacted at the Smithsonian but they certainly know that the KSC S-IC is the S-IC-T not S-IC-F.
The email I received came from their curator of the Cold War rockets and missile collection, Tom Lassman. This is what he said:
According to our records, the first and third stages of the Saturn V on display at the U.S. Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville come from the D. The F is at the Kennedy Space Center. The S-II (second stage) at KSC, however, is the second stage from the canceled Apollo 18 mission.
I don't know why he said the F is at KSC when it's actually the T. Faulty records maybe, I'm not sure.

AlanLawrie
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posted 11-05-2015 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AlanLawrie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sure that was a slip of the pen by the Smithsonian.

The confirmation is via the Marshall Star, the in-house newspaper of MSFC. The 20 March 1974 and 24 April 1974 issues report that the S-IC-T stage was shipped from MSFC by the barge Poseidon on 15 March and arrived at KSC on 28 March where it was to be displayed by the VAB. The rest is history.

Rohan
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posted 11-05-2015 08:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rohan   Click Here to Email Rohan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the information, Alan. I still wonder how two first stages were effectively lost, as the location of S-IC-S is apparently unknown as well. There must be records hidden away somewhere as to what happened to them, can't imagine an S-IC would be scrapped or moved without anyone knowing.

moorouge
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posted 11-05-2015 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rohan:
There must be records hidden away somewhere as to what happened to them...
I wouldn't bank on it. NASA were very lax about keeping records as I know to my cost when it came to researching some Apollo history.


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