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Author
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Topic: Mercury, Gemini, Apollo capsules together
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-08-2012 10:13 AM
  
NASA photo S65-65948 is an interesting post-flight image that shows the Gemini 7 and Gemini 6A spacecraft together in the same photo.Another example is NASA photo KSC-69P-0204 which shows both the Apollo 11 and Apollo 12 command and service modules in the same photo. Have you come across any other Mercury, Gemini or Apollo images that show spacecraft from different missions in the same photo?  
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ilbasso
Member Posts: 1527
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 03-08-2012 08:11 PM
I suppose that some of the "assembly line" photos at Bethpage would qualify, as they show several lunar modules in various stages of completion. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-08-2012 08:38 PM
Sure. I would like to see some of those. Here is another one:NASA photo KSC-70PC-537 shows both the Apollo 14 and Apollo 15 lunar modules in the Manned Spacecraft Operations Building in October 1970.  |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1527
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 03-08-2012 10:18 PM
The book "Building Moonships: The Grumman Lunar Module" has some great photos of the facility and lunar modules under construction. |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1527
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 07-27-2013 10:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
NASA photo KSC-70PC-537 shows both the Apollo 14 and Apollo 15 lunar modules...
Is the Apollo 15 lunar module depicted in this photo LM-9, the spacecraft that didn't fly? The flight lunar module for Apollo 15, LM-10, wasn't mated in the MSOB until February 1971, by which time Apollo 14 had already flown. |
J.L
Member Posts: 694
From: Bloomington, Illinois, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted 07-27-2013 10:48 PM
Photos I have of the Apollo 15 lunar module show the ascent stage being delivered to KSC in June of 1970. I am pretty confident that the photo you are referring to shows LM-8 and LM-10. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 07-28-2013 02:09 PM
The Lunar Module Checkout History chart (page E-9 of Appendix E in the "Apollo Program Summary Report" from JSC in 1975. Click on Part 10 here) includes both LM-8 and LM-10. The Apollo 14 spacecraft with LM-8 was moved to the VAB on November 4, 1970. The LM-10 ascent stage was delivered to KSC on November 6, 1970. The LM-10 descent stage was delivered to KSC on November 16, 1970.
Based on the chart, that cannot be LM-8 and LM-10 in photo KSC-70PC-537. This is the caption for KSC-70PC-537 in the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal: The Apollo 14 Lunar Module (right) undergoes checkout with Apollo 15's LM-10 in the background. 16 October 1970. The engine skirt seen in the photo might be a clue. The descent stage engine skirt nozzle was extended 10 inches for the "J" mission flights. The LM on the overhead crane looks like it has an "H" mission engine skirt to me. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 12-08-2013 05:29 PM
The original Apollo 15 "H" mission with LM-9 was cancelled on September 2, 1970. If the October 1970 photo date is correct, I figure the image shows LM-8 and LM-9. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-09-2014 02:01 PM
Photo S69-15690 shows the Apollo 9 spacecraft and the Apollo 10 S-IC first stage in the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) transfer aisle in December 1968. Apollo 9 was stacked in High Bay 3, and Apollo 10 in High Bay 2. |
Lou Chinal
Member Posts: 1387
From: Staten Island, NY
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 09-10-2014 03:16 PM
I know of one photo you can take today. It's in the McDonnell prologue room in St. Louis. The prototypes of Mercury, Gemini and Skylab are together. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-10-2014 03:34 PM
Harder to find are images of manned vehicles from different missions that may have crossed paths as they were prepared for flight. Or shortly after flight, like the 1965 Gemini photo. |
canyon42
Member Posts: 241
From: Ohio
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 09-10-2014 08:42 PM
Well, I suppose this technically qualifies.   |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-10-2014 09:12 PM
Museum photos would be the first examples that come to mind, but I was thinking more in terms of images like this showing the Apollo 17 spacecraft and the Skylab 2 first stage together in the same shot. Photo is dated August 23, 1972. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-27-2014 01:36 PM
The S-IC stages seen in this Michoud assembly facility photo are identified in the "Saturn Illustrated Chronology" as S-IC-8, S-IC-4 and S-IC-6. The corresponding flights would be Apollo 13, Apollo 9 and Apollo 11.The Apollo Image Gallery identifies the stages as S-IC-10, S-IC-11 and S-IC-9. Those corresponding flights would be Apollo 15, Apollo 16 and Apollo 14. I would say that the Apollo Image Gallery is correct. Great photo. (The fourth S-IC at the far end might be Apollo 17.)  |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-28-2014 09:45 AM
These three S-IVB stages at the Douglas test facility in Sacramento are identified as S-IVB-205, S-IVB-206 and S-IVB-207. So the corresponding flights would be Apollo 7, Skylab 2 and Skylab 3. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 12-01-2014 04:34 AM
From what I can gather regarding the S-IC photos at Michoud: - photo 6760490 shows S-IC-8, S-IC-4 and S-IC-6
- photo 6870792 shows S-IC-10, S-IC-11 and S-IC-9
The photo linked earlier is 6870792 and is dated October 1, 1968.Here is another view of the S-IC stages taken on the same day. In the background, from left to right: Apollo 15, Apollo 16, Apollo 14 and probably Apollo 17.  |
Rohan
Member Posts: 17
From: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Registered: Jul 2015
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posted 11-03-2015 04:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
Here is another view of the S-IC stages taken on the same day.
Not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but looking at the S-IC on the far right, which is the possible first stage for Apollo 17, it appears to have the paintwork seen on SA-500F.I could be wrong, but I'm sure the last Saturn V to wear this paintwork was Apollo 6. Yet Apollo 4 and Apollo 6 launched long before this photo was taken. If these were the only two missions to wear this paintwork, why is the S-IC on the far right painted in the old paintwork? Or am I seeing something that isn't there? |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1259
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 11-03-2015 06:19 AM
Could it be a test stage (500D maybe?) that is just housed there and not Apollo 17? |
Rohan
Member Posts: 17
From: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Registered: Jul 2015
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posted 11-03-2015 03:32 PM
It could be, the first stage of the 500D was never scrapped so it is a possibility. The only thing is I'm not sure why they'd put the old test stage alongside ones that were still under construction. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-03-2015 10:09 PM
It might be the S-IC-F stage. Alan Lawrie mentions in "Saturn" that S-IC-F was in storage at Michoud from December 1966 to September 1969. |
Rohan
Member Posts: 17
From: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Registered: Jul 2015
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posted 11-04-2015 12:17 AM
Will have to pick up a copy of Saturn, it looks like an interesting read. I didn't know that S-IC-F was stored at Michoud. It would explain not only why it's present in the original photo, but also why the stage isn't being worked on. |
AlanLawrie
Member Posts: 108
From: hitchin, herts, UK
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 11-04-2015 06:28 AM
You beat me to it. I checked my records last night. Photo 6870792 was originally submitted by Boeing to MSFC at the end of October 1968. It's not identified with a date other than it's in the batch of photos sent covering activities in October 1968. The original caption in the October submittal says that it's S-IC-10, S-IC-11 and S-IC-9. It doesn't say but presumably means left to right. In October 1968 S-IC-10 and S-IC-9 had their engines installed and S-IC-11 did not. This ties up with the photo. At that time there were two other S-ICs at MAF. S-IC-8 had its engines installed and S-IC-F had no engines. Therefore the stage in the very background must be S-IC-F. On the same subject of related hardware in my Saturn book I have a photo of the Skylab S-IVB OWS stage and the back-up Skylab S-IVB OWS stage together in the same picture. I have not seen any other picture of these two together. If you want to see various photos of two and three S-IVB stages together then my new book Sacramento's Moon Rockets has a number of these. |
dtemple
Member Posts: 769
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 11-04-2015 01:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rohan:
If these were the only two missions to wear this paintwork...
Apollo 8's SI-C also had the early black paint pattern. |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1259
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 11-04-2015 04:37 PM
The back of the stage definitely looks like the S-1C-F from the second picture. I wish the factory photo was a higher resolution. So many details to see in that shot! quote:
Originally posted by dtemple:
Apollo 8's SI-C also had the early black paint pattern.
They must have done a better job of repainting than was done on Apollo 4.
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Rohan
Member Posts: 17
From: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Registered: Jul 2015
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posted 11-05-2015 12:07 AM
It's interesting, Apollo 4 was left in the old paintwork right up until rollout. It's still visible prior to the LES installation. The S-IC for Apollo 8 though can be seen being erected in the VAB without the paintwork. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-05-2015 12:31 AM
SA-500F actually rolled out to pad 39A twice, because of a hurricane. The current location of S-IC-F is unknown, apparently. |
Rohan
Member Posts: 17
From: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Registered: Jul 2015
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posted 11-05-2015 02:16 AM
I contacted the Smithsonian a couple of months back regarding the issue of SA-500F. According to their records, the first stage at the Kennedy Space Center is S-IC-F. According to Wikipedia however, the first stage at KSC is S-IC-T.I'm not sure which one is actually the case, but it's food for thought. |
Ronpur
Member Posts: 1259
From: Brandon, Fl
Registered: May 2012
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posted 11-05-2015 06:15 AM
A Field Guide to American Spacecraft says it is S-IC-T at KSC. I had always assume it was S-IC-F. So if it is T, what happened to 500F?Edit: Actually, I am reading that it was scrapped, after being shipped to Marshall. |
AlanLawrie
Member Posts: 108
From: hitchin, herts, UK
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 11-05-2015 06:52 AM
I don't know who you contacted at the Smithsonian but they certainly know that the KSC S-IC is the S-IC-T not S-IC-F.With regards to the painting of the first stage even up to Apollo 10 the first stages were painted with the old "500F" black markings during testing prior to being repainted for flight. |
AlanLawrie
Member Posts: 108
From: hitchin, herts, UK
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 11-05-2015 07:14 AM
In fact Smithsonian's own online catalog confirms the S-IC-T. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-05-2015 10:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Lawrie:
In October 1968 S-IC-10 and S-IC-9 had their engines installed and S-IC-11 did not. This ties up with the photo.
The S-IC-11 (Apollo 16) engines were installed around December 1968. Photo 6900732 (on page 183) is a similar Michoud factory photo from August 1969 that shows S-IC-11 back at MAF for repairs and a second set of engines after a test stand engine fire at the Mississippi Test Facility in June 1969. |
Rohan
Member Posts: 17
From: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Registered: Jul 2015
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posted 11-05-2015 03:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AlanLawrie:
I don't know who you contacted at the Smithsonian but they certainly know that the KSC S-IC is the S-IC-T not S-IC-F.
The email I received came from their curator of the Cold War rockets and missile collection, Tom Lassman. This is what he said: According to our records, the first and third stages of the Saturn V on display at the U.S. Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville come from the D. The F is at the Kennedy Space Center. The S-II (second stage) at KSC, however, is the second stage from the canceled Apollo 18 mission. I don't know why he said the F is at KSC when it's actually the T. Faulty records maybe, I'm not sure. |
AlanLawrie
Member Posts: 108
From: hitchin, herts, UK
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 11-05-2015 05:46 PM
I'm sure that was a slip of the pen by the Smithsonian.The confirmation is via the Marshall Star, the in-house newspaper of MSFC. The 20 March 1974 and 24 April 1974 issues report that the S-IC-T stage was shipped from MSFC by the barge Poseidon on 15 March and arrived at KSC on 28 March where it was to be displayed by the VAB. The rest is history. |
Rohan
Member Posts: 17
From: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Registered: Jul 2015
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posted 11-05-2015 08:52 PM
Thanks for the information, Alan. I still wonder how two first stages were effectively lost, as the location of S-IC-S is apparently unknown as well. There must be records hidden away somewhere as to what happened to them, can't imagine an S-IC would be scrapped or moved without anyone knowing. |
moorouge
Member Posts: 2486
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted 11-05-2015 11:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rohan:
There must be records hidden away somewhere as to what happened to them...
I wouldn't bank on it. NASA were very lax about keeping records as I know to my cost when it came to researching some Apollo history. |
AlanLawrie
Member Posts: 108
From: hitchin, herts, UK
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 11-06-2015 06:31 AM
Don't expect the S-IC-S to ever show up as it was never a full stage. It was actually a collection of assemblies used to check the structural integrity of elements of the first stage eg fuel tank, oxidizer tank, fins, thrust structure. The parts were tested individually; some were tested to destruction and other parts failed but in any event all would have been scrapped at the end. The only real missing stage is the S-IC-F which was almost certainly scrapped at MSFC. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-10-2015 09:32 AM
The S-IC-14 and S-IC-15 stages are seen side-by-side at Michoud in photo 7008321 (Saturn page 191) in May 1970. That was before the H-4 and J-4 missions were cancelled. This later aerial photo shows the S-IC-15 stage on display outside the Michoud Assembly Facility. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-11-2015 10:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rohan:
The S-IC for Apollo 8 though can be seen being erected in the VAB without the paintwork.
The S-IC-3 stage can be seen even earlier with an all-white intertank structure at the Michoud factory in September 1967. The black markings were roll patterns. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-15-2016 09:40 AM
This Marshall Space Flight Center photo shows two S-IVB stages in the checkout tower in 1971. The Skylab Orbital Workshop (OWS) that flew was S-IVB-212. The backup OWS was S-IVB-515. The S-IVB stage on the left is not identified. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3805
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 07-19-2018 12:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AlanLawrie:
With regards to the painting of the first stage even up to Apollo 10 the first stages were painted with the old "500F" black markings during testing prior to being repainted for flight.
This 1967 photo, taken before the F-1 engines were installed, seems to show that the S-IC-6 (Apollo 11) stage also had the "500F" black markings early on. The photo number is MAF-MSFC 12871-11, dated 1-4-67.The mighty S-IC-6 as it was moved out of tower at Michoud into plant for installation of engines.  A photo dated November 1967 shows the S-IC-6 stage with the intertank structure painted white. Any earlier S-IC-6 photos with the all-white intertank? |
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