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  Debunking the Apollo moon landings hoax (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Debunking the Apollo moon landings hoax
kennedyone
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From: Garrison Iowa 52229
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posted 03-11-2010 04:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kennedyone   Click Here to Email kennedyone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My son is doing a project in school about if we really landing on the moon or if it was a hoax. Are there any good websites for him to go to to do his research?

I told him that we did and explained it to him told him there we so many non-believers and I wasn't one and we had a long discussion about it last night.

Paul23
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posted 03-11-2010 04:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul23   Click Here to Email Paul23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not sure about websites but I seem to remember Mythbusters doing quite a good program which debunked a lot of the hoax theories.

Rick Mulheirn
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posted 03-11-2010 06:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Look no further than this posting on this very site.

I guess die hard hoax protagonists would insist this was also a con, photo-shop or some such. But shots taken that depict Apollo hardware and even foot prints on the lunar surface make a good starting point.

Lunar rock nut
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posted 03-11-2010 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lunar rock nut   Click Here to Email Lunar rock nut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The best site is Moonbase Clavius. Everything he will need to read!

Go4Launch
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posted 03-11-2010 08:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Go4Launch   Click Here to Email Go4Launch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Put "Moon landing conspiracy theories" into the Wikipedia search box for a great overview.

Spacefest
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From: Tucson, AZ
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posted 03-11-2010 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The best and most cogent arguments have always been on Dr. Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy site.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 03-11-2010 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paul23:
Mythbusters doing quite a good program
Indeed, they did. Here's our interview with them about the episode. It's out now on DVD; might be worth renting and even showing the entire class.

kennedyone
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From: Garrison Iowa 52229
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posted 03-11-2010 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kennedyone   Click Here to Email kennedyone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, thank all of you for the great help. Son should get an A plus for sure.

I think the American space program was an incredible undertaking and have loved reading about it from an early age. Thanks again for all your help.

kennedyone
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From: Garrison Iowa 52229
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posted 03-11-2010 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kennedyone   Click Here to Email kennedyone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Was interesting talking to the son after school today.

He was telling me that they watched a film today trying to prove that the landing never happened and nothing to try to give the students an theory that it did. Sounds one sided to me and I can't even think of a teacher that wouldn't show both sides.

Funny how times changes what people think.

Paul23
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posted 03-11-2010 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul23   Click Here to Email Paul23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I remember a teacher at school doing a similar thing with us, he stood at the front of the class and said things like the Earth was flat, dinosaurs never existed, that sort of thing.

When we all laughed at him and said he was talking rubbish he asked us to prove it which of course none of us could. I don't think for a second he believed anything he was saying, it was just his way of getting us to think for ourselves rather than just accepting what other peoples told us.

tegwilym
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From: Crest Airpark (S36) Kent, WA
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posted 03-11-2010 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It would be interesting to hear the students' opinions on this. Seems that from what I have read, there was a horrifying amount of under 25 years old people that don't believe the truth.

Spacefest
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From: Tucson, AZ
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posted 03-11-2010 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The major point that started all this business is that we could not have had the technology to get men on the moon. Given that 25-year olds see the frozen political and economic systems, and that we can't go today, they wonder how we could have had it so together in the 1960s and do it in such a short period of time.

I might doubt it too, if I hadn't seen it myself.

I'm sure the truth will become so plain, that it may become the most valuable lesson in critical thinking for these kids, and we could have generations of kids who don't believe every conspiracy theory.

Obviousman
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posted 03-11-2010 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Obviousman   Click Here to Email Obviousman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clavius is the place to visit, but there are a number of sites you can also visit.

If you have specific questions, try:

We're always happy to answer questions.

tegwilym
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From: Crest Airpark (S36) Kent, WA
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posted 03-12-2010 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A little off topic, but I did do a "Intro to the Night Sky" lecture last night at the visitor center of one of our city parks. Skies were to cloudy to show the sky though.

I did briefly bring up the hoax topic but showed a photo of the Apollo 14 landing site taken from the LRO spacecraft and commented that the hoaxers will have problems coming up with excuses now.

Spacefest
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posted 03-12-2010 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Of course hoaxers will claim continued NASA conspiracy, but that can be countered by informing them that it would take a multi-generational effort, and that LRO photos are received and processed by students at ASU, without NASA.

Besides, we already won the cold war.

mjanovec
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posted 03-12-2010 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The problem is that logic rarely works on someone who truly wants to believe in a hoax scenario. They will always develop a more complex story to work around any logical argument.

At some point, I fully suspect they will claim those artifacts at the landing sites were later planted on the moon by unmanned vehicles to fool future generations into accepting the hoax. As crazy as that sounds, they will probably accept that idea more readily than they will accept the truth.

Spacefest
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posted 03-12-2010 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think those people are in the minority, like flat-earthers. Those people will become oddities of evolution.

The majority of hoaxers are on the fence because of peer pressure. As they age, either they'll figure it out, or THEIR kids will rebel against parental beliefs (as kids do).

Either way. I see the hoax talk quieting down soon. Even true "non-believers" will clam up, lest they get laughed at.

My own essay is on The Astronaut Central website.

mjanovec
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posted 03-13-2010 01:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, the true wackos have moved on to other hair-brained ideas. So I think they will always exist out there, just in different incarnations.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 03-13-2010 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tegwilym:
...there was a horrifying amount of under 25 years old people that don't believe the truth.
Good news! A new poll shows children actually believe that Armstrong and Buzz have walked on the Moon, although there's clearly still some work to do.

According to one in ten children, it was Buzz Lightyear and Lance Armstrong...

BJWest
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From: San Francisco, CA 94110
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posted 03-19-2010 01:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BJWest   Click Here to Email BJWest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One of these days I'm going to put up a website using the same "logic" and photo analysis techniques to prove conclusively that we've never been to Earth.

Jay Chladek
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posted 07-29-2010 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gotta love British humor for this one. Apparently it is up on the "Bad Astronomy" website as well.

gleopold
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From: Reston, VA, USA
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posted 07-29-2010 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gleopold   Click Here to Email gleopold     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Irrefutable proof: The Apollo 11 landing site from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter.

Not only can you see all four ascent stage footpads, but you can make out nearly all the human activity on the surface, including Neil Armstrong's little jaunt to the nearest small crater.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-29-2010 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Irrefutable to those who are reasonable, intelligent individuals, i.e. people who don't believe in the hoax.

Hoaxers believe we faked the moon landing -- one of the largest, most complex undertakings in the history of humankind. They can easily refudiate the LRO data as being photoshopped.

Gregster
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posted 07-31-2010 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gregster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While one may question his theories on other subjects, Richard C. Hoagland has helped prepare a comprehensive debunking of the moon landing hoax theory: Who Mourns For Apollo? Part I, Part II.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-31-2010 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gregster:
Richard C. Hoagland has helped prepare...
From "Who Mourns for Apollo?"
Let us be clear; we are all uniformly, unabashedly, "conspiracy theorists" here. We are 100-percent convinced that there has been a cover up by NASA of some extraordinary discoveries made in the course of the agency's 40-year year history. That said, one thing they did not do, unquestionably, was fake the Moon landings.
Credit for being upfront here, but one wonders why self-described conspiracy theorists need to defend the moon landings...
As you will see, some of these charges can actually be more easily explained not just by a complete rejection of the Moon Hoax theory, but a combination of conventional explanations and our own "glass ruins" model of the Moon...

If NASA is eventually forced to admit that there was more to the Face on Mars than meets the Eye, that maybe they missed something "the first three times around," or that there is truly something "ancient and extraordinary on the Moon" ... then it will be crucial to have thoroughly discredited the "conspiracy theorists" out there (read: us).

In other words, the argument being put forth here is that the moon hoax is in fact a government conspiracy to discredit all conspiracy theorists to hide... get ready for it... the giant glass alien ruins floating over the Moon.

With friends like these, who needs enemies...

Gregster
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posted 07-31-2010 11:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gregster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Point taken. I see that this thread was started by someone who's son was working on a project. Had I thought more about it I probably wouldn't have included the piece in my post.

eurospace
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posted 09-09-2013 08:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for eurospace   Click Here to Email eurospace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
An acquaintance of mine tells me over and over that the Moon Landings have been a gigantic fake operation.

I am trying with a paradoxal intervention: Yes, the Moon Landing by the Americans was a gigantic fake, and for the simple reason that America does not exist. The discovery of America was just a giant hoax by which Spanish Queen Isabel tried to cloak the endless pleasure cruises she was undertaking with her respective lovers (Christopher Columbus etc.) which cost the Spanish state a lot of money. A sort of diversion that still works today (such as telling people that spying all their e-mails serves to protect their security).

Now the guy is bombarding me with "indisputable evidence" that America would actually exist. Pffttt...

garymilgrom
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posted 09-09-2013 09:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for garymilgrom   Click Here to Email garymilgrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't lower yourself to their level with your reply. Recommend a good book on the science involved like "How Apollo Flew to the Moon." If they're not convinced you may need to edit your list of acquaintances.

moorouge
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posted 01-27-2016 09:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is an article in today's edition of the UK newspaper Daily Telegraph by an Oxford University physicist Dr. David Grimes.

Grimes has evolved a mathematical formula for how long a hoax will last based on the number of people involved. For the Moon landings, with an estimated 411,000 working on Apollo, he calculates that any hoax would have been found out in 3 years and 8 months.

The paper on his research can be found in the online journal, Public Library of Science ONE.

p51
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posted 01-27-2016 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for p51   Click Here to Email p51     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've posted this elsewhere on this forum, but had to laugh while watching a scene from "From the Earth to the Moon" episode, "Is That All There Is" where Bean is messing around with the camera, to the right it looks clearly to me like a corner in the backdrop on the set way behind him. Somehow that seemed ironic for this topic.

My late Uncle (one of the chief geologists for the state of Florida in the past, and a well-educated and respected man) used to say they were faked, but I think he said it to come across as a "character" as he had a very odd sense of humor. Looking back, I now doubt he really believed that.

I served in the Army with a Sergeant under me who firmly believed it. We talked about it from time to time and really discussed it while sitting around one day at a gunnery exercise in the desert. I used pure logic and human behavior to turn him around.

He'd been in Desert Storm and I asked if they'd faked the use of fuel air bombs (they dropped a few right in front of him on the Iraqi lines before the ground war started), wouldn't that get out? He said of course it would because someone would have talked. I then pointed out that hundreds of thousands of people had their hands in the Apollo program and using his logic, several of them by then would have come forth or had deathbed confessions that they helped fake the landings.

Also, someone involved surely would have written a book by that point to make money for their kid's college fund or something like that. I also pointed out how gleefully the Russians would have busted such a hoax as they would have been able to track the flights and they said nothing, and the fact that people all over the world were tracking the flights. The Russians, for sure, would have loved to tell the world they tracked the missions and confirmed they never landed, yet they never did, in the height of the Cold War.

He mulled it over for a moment and said, "Sir, that makes a lot of sense. I never thought about that but you're right. Someone in the know would have said something by now, wouldn't they?" and that was that. He later said he felt foolish for even thinking that the landings didn't happen.

Tom Hanks was asked about conspiracy theories and he replied, "We live in a society where there is no law [against] making money in the promulgation of ignorance or, in some cases, stupidity."

I would have loved to have seen Buzz Aldrin punch Bart Sibrel over this issue! Better yet was that nobody would prosecute Aldrin over the incident.

chameloon
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posted 01-28-2016 02:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for chameloon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This one is short but worth it: Apollo moon landing hoax. NASA lie debunked in just one minute.

Solarplexus
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posted 01-28-2016 08:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Solarplexus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is terrible news...my Moon exploration collection is worth nothing.

David C
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posted 01-28-2016 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I rather liked that, and I appreciated his brevity. What a character.

Wehaveliftoff
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posted 01-28-2016 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wehaveliftoff   Click Here to Email Wehaveliftoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why hasn't the space observatory (telescope) taken photos of all the Apollo landing sites to help refute the non-believers?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-28-2016 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The answer is both it can't and it has.

If by "space observatory," you mean the Hubble Space Telescope or any instrument on or orbiting around the Earth, then the Apollo equipment is far too small to be resolved.

An object on the Moon 4 meters (4.37 yards) across, viewed from HST, would be about 0.002 arcsec in size. The highest resolution instrument currently on HST is the Advanced Camera for Surveys at 0.03 arcsec. So anything we left on the Moon cannot be resolved in any HST image. It would just appear as a dot.
If by observatory, you mean any instrument pointed at the moon, then it has. NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, in orbit about the moon, has imaged all six landing sites.

Ronpur
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posted 01-28-2016 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Of course, if you don't believe we went to the moon, you are not going to believe photos from a hoax spacecraft...

Solarplexus
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posted 01-30-2016 11:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Solarplexus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gizmodo: Why the moon landings could have never ever been faked: The definitive proof.

SpaceAholic
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posted 02-15-2016 08:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by moorouge:
Grimes has evolved a mathematical formula for how long a hoax will last based on the number of people involved.
PBS: How many people does it take to keep a conspiracy alive?
"Science thrives on being open and gradually self-correcting, and a willingness to be guided by evidence rather than dogma," Grimes said in an email. This means criticism and questions are an inherent part of the scientific process. However, Grimes thinks conspiracies, especially large one, go too far and should be separated from science.

NJ CO
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posted 02-17-2016 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NJ CO     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I "debate" this (mostly at work of all places), I keep my position very simple in that I ask the idio... I mean non-believer this: Who were we racing against to get to the Moon? The response is always the correct answer.

And my simple reply is "don't ya' think they would've said nyet, we didn't do it"?

RichieB16
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posted 02-17-2016 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RichieB16   Click Here to Email RichieB16     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have often wondered how many of these hoax conspiracy theories were originally inspired by the movie "Capricorn One."


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