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  Debunking the Apollo moon landings hoax (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Debunking the Apollo moon landings hoax
kennedyone
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From: Garrison Iowa 52229
Registered: Jun 2009

posted 03-11-2010 04:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kennedyone   Click Here to Email kennedyone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My son is doing a project in school about if we really landing on the moon or if it was a hoax. Are there any good websites for him to go to to do his research?

I told him that we did and explained it to him told him there we so many non-believers and I wasn't one and we had a long discussion about it last night.

Paul23
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posted 03-11-2010 04:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul23   Click Here to Email Paul23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not sure about websites but I seem to remember Mythbusters doing quite a good program which debunked a lot of the hoax theories.

Rick Mulheirn
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From: England
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posted 03-11-2010 06:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Randy, look no further than this posting on this very site.

I guess die hard hoax protagonists would insist this was also a con, photo-shop or some such. But shots taken that depict Apollo hardware and even foot prints on the lunar surface make a good starting point.

moorouge
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From: U.K.
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posted 03-11-2010 07:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Before you debunk the 'hoax' theories, your son needs to say what they were. Here is a good site that will give him that information.

Best of luck with his work and trust both you and he will get 'straight A's' for the finished article.

Lunar rock nut
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From: Oklahoma city, Oklahoma U.S.A.
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posted 03-11-2010 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lunar rock nut   Click Here to Email Lunar rock nut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The best site is Moonbase Clavius. Everything he will need to read!

Go4Launch
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From: Bethesda, MD
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posted 03-11-2010 08:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Go4Launch   Click Here to Email Go4Launch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Put "Moon landing conspiracy theories" into the Wikipedia search box for a great overview.

kennedyone
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From: Garrison Iowa 52229
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posted 03-11-2010 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kennedyone   Click Here to Email kennedyone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by moorouge:
Before you debunk the 'hoax' theories, your son needs to say what they were.
Thanks for the site. Are you saying you believe its a hoax also or giving the son a view of both sides of the story?

mjanovec
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From: Midwest, USA
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posted 03-11-2010 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rest assured that nobody here believes the moon landings were faked. (Or if they do believe that, they haven't spoken up yet.)

Spacefest
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From: Tucson, AZ USA
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posted 03-11-2010 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The best and most cogent arguments have always been on Dr. Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy site.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 03-11-2010 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paul23:
Mythbusters doing quite a good program
Indeed, they did. Here's our interview with them about the episode. It's out now on DVD; might be worth renting and even showing the entire class.

kennedyone
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From: Garrison Iowa 52229
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posted 03-11-2010 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kennedyone   Click Here to Email kennedyone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, thank all of you for the great help. Son should get an A plus for sure.

I think the American space program was an incredible undertaking and have loved reading about it from an early age. Thanks again for all your help.

kennedyone
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Posts: 26
From: Garrison Iowa 52229
Registered: Jun 2009

posted 03-11-2010 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kennedyone   Click Here to Email kennedyone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Was interesting talking to the son after school today.

He was telling me that they watched a film today trying to prove that the landing never happened and nothing to try to give the students an theory that it did. Sounds one sided to me and I can't even think of a teacher that wouldn't show both sides.

Funny how times changes what people think.

moorouge
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posted 03-11-2010 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was giving son access to both sides of the story. Who was it who said, "Know thine enemy." One needs to to know why people believe there was a hoax/conspiracy before one can debunk it.

On a totally different subject but as an exercise in laying to rest a conspiracy theory might I suggest you read 'Reclaiming History' by Vincent Bugliosi on the Kennedy assassination.

Anyway - best of luck to him.

And - of course they landed on the Moon. Pete Conrad was going to mine it and sell the cheese!

Paul23
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posted 03-11-2010 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Paul23   Click Here to Email Paul23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I remember a teacher at school doing a similar thing with us, he stood at the front of the class and said things like the earth was flat, dinasours never existed, that sort of thing.

When we all laughed at him and said he was talking rubbish he asked us to prove it which of course none of us could. I don't think for a second he believed anything he was saying, it was just his way of getting us to think for ourselves rather than just accepting what other peoples told us.

Robert Pearlman
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From: Houston, TX
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posted 03-11-2010 04:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by moorouge:
I was giving son access to both sides of the story.
We really shouldn't link to such websites.

There are plenty of excellent websites (including those listed above) that debunk the myths while also identifying what they are.

Linking directly to the websites that promote the misinformation however, only serves entirely negative purposes: it (a) bolsters their position on the web, by increasing their search engine page rank (as a result of being linked from reputable sites such as this one); (b) increases their pageviews (giving them a false statistic by which to claim the popularity of their lies); and (c) points them back to where they were linked (through web referral logs), giving them new target audiences by which to try to spread said lies.

It is for those reasons (and more) why for the past ten years we have worked to keep those websites' links off this site (and others). Google and other search engines do a good enough job if someone specifically needs to hunt down those sites.

On the larger issue, I would hope that any introduction of the hoax into a classroom setting would be for the sole intent of promoting critical thinking and that the lesson would not end until the students recognize the primary reasons why the hoax is propagated: laziness, stupidity and lies.

tegwilym
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From: Renton, WA USA
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posted 03-11-2010 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It would be interesting to hear the students' opinions on this. Seems that from what I have read, there was a horrifying amount of under 25 years old people that don't believe the truth.

Jay Chladek
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From: Bellevue, NE, USA
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posted 03-11-2010 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do hope Discovery Channel puts out their Mythbusters moon landing episode on DVD as it pretty well in my mind debunked all the big myths that most of the hoax sites have brought up.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 03-11-2010 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
I do hope Discovery Channel puts out their Mythbusters moon landing episode on DVD...
It is already out on DVD.

bobzz
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From: Batavia, Illinois
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posted 03-11-2010 06:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bobzz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Moon landing hoax... how sad this subject is even brought up in school.

413 is in
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From: Alexandria, VA USA
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posted 03-11-2010 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 413 is in   Click Here to Email 413 is in     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
I do hope Discovery Channel puts out their Mythbusters moon landing episode on DVD...
As Robert mentioned, it is already out on DVD. It is also currently available for download on Apple iTunes for just $1.99! It is Season 6 (episode #2).

Spacefest
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From: Tucson, AZ USA
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posted 03-11-2010 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tegwilym:
...from what I have read, there was a horrifying amount of under 25 years old people that don't believe the truth.
The major point that started all this business is that we could not have had the technology to get men on the moon. Given that 25-year olds see the frozen political and economic systems, and that we can't go today. They wonder how we could have had it so together in the 1960s and do it in such a short period of time.

I might doubt it too, if I hadn't seen it myself.

I'm sure the truth will become so plain, that it may become the most valuable lesson in critical thinking for these kids (as Rob said), and we could have generations of kids who don't believe every conspiracy theory.

Obviousman
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posted 03-11-2010 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Obviousman   Click Here to Email Obviousman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clavius is the place to visit, but there are a number of sites you can also visit.

If you have specific questions, try:

We're always happy to answer questions.

kennedyone
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From: Garrison Iowa 52229
Registered: Jun 2009

posted 03-12-2010 07:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kennedyone   Click Here to Email kennedyone     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you all for your help. I think this is the best site of all and love the comments from all of the people on here, have learned so much from visiting here.

bobzz
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From: Batavia, Illinois
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posted 03-12-2010 10:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bobzz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tegwilym:
Seems that from what I have read, there was a horrifying amount of under 25 years old people that don't believe the truth.
It's no wonder why we are in so much trouble today.

Spacefest
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From: Tucson, AZ USA
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posted 03-12-2010 12:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bobzz:
It's no wonder why we are in so much trouble today.
Look at it as an opportunity, Bob. Discussing it in schools gives us the chance to wholesale the truth to many at once. Converts are the most zealous believers.

tegwilym
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From: Renton, WA USA
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posted 03-12-2010 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A little off topic, but I did do a "Intro to the Night Sky" lecture last night at the visitor center of one of our city parks. Skies were to cloudy to show the sky though.

I did briefly bring up the hoax topic but showed a photo of the Apollo 14 landing site taken from the LRO spacecraft and commented that the hoaxers will have problems coming up with excuses now.

Spacefest
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From: Tucson, AZ USA
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posted 03-12-2010 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Of course hoaxers will claim continued NASA conspiracy, but that can be countered by informing them that it would take a multi-generational effort, and that LRO photos are received and processed by students at ASU, without NASA.

Besides, we already won the cold war.

mjanovec
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posted 03-12-2010 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The problem is that logic rarely works on someone who truly wants to believe in a hoax scenario. They will always develop a more complex story to work around any logical argument.

At some point, I fully suspect they will claim those artifacts at the landing sites were later planted on the moon by unmanned vehicles to fool future generations into accepting the hoax. As crazy as that sounds, they will probably accept that idea more readily than they will accept the truth.

Spacefest
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posted 03-12-2010 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think those people are in the minority, like flat-earthers. Those people will become oddities of evolution.

The majority of hoaxers are on the fence because of peer pressure. As they age, either they'll figure it out, or THEIR kids will rebel against parental beliefs (as kids do).

Either way. I see the hoax talk quieting down soon. Even true "non-believers" will clam up, lest they get laughed at.

My own essay is on The Astronaut Central website.

bobzz
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From: Batavia, Illinois
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posted 03-12-2010 08:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bobzz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Spacefest:
Discussing it in schools gives us the chance to wholesale the truth to many at once. Converts are the most zealous believers.
That could be the silver lining!!!!! We can only hope.

mjanovec
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From: Midwest, USA
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posted 03-13-2010 01:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Spacefest:
Either way. I see the hoax talk quieting down soon. Even true "non-believers" will clam up, lest they get laughed at.

Well, the true wackos have moved on to other hair-brained ideas, like a 9-11 conspiracy. So I think they will always exist out there, just in different incarnations.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 03-13-2010 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tegwilym:
...there was a horrifying amount of under 25 years old people that don't believe the truth.
Good news! A new poll shows children actually believe that Armstrong and Buzz have walked on the Moon, although there's clearly still some work to do.

According to one in ten children, it was Buzz Lightyear and Lance Armstrong...

BJWest
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From: San Francisco, CA 94110
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posted 03-19-2010 01:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BJWest   Click Here to Email BJWest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One of these days I'm going to put up a website using the same "logic" and photo analysis techniques to prove conclusively that we've never been to Earth.

moorouge
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From: U.K.
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posted 03-20-2010 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BJWest:
One of these days I'm going to put up a website using the same "logic" and photo analysis techniques to prove conclusively that we've never been to Earth.

Of course we haven't. Since we're all figments of each others imagination so 'there' doesn't exist anyway.

On edit - one other thought for Kennedyone and his son. A young boy asked an old man, "What is the truth?"

After some thought the old man replied, "The truth, my son, is whatever you want it to be."

Jay Chladek
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posted 07-29-2010 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gotta love British humor for this one. Apparently it is up on the "Bad Astronomy" website as well.

gleopold
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posted 07-29-2010 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gleopold   Click Here to Email gleopold     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Irrefutable proof: The Apollo 11 landing site from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter.

Not only can you see all four ascent stage footpads, but you can make out nearly all the human activity on the surface, including Neil Armstrong's little jaunt to the nearest small crater.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 07-29-2010 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Irrefutable to those who are reasonable, intelligent individuals, i.e. people who don't believe in the hoax.

Hoaxers believe we faked the moon landing -- one of the largest, most complex undertakings in the history of humankind. They can easily refudiate the LRO data as being photoshopped.

moorouge
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From: U.K.
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posted 07-31-2010 02:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unless, of course, the Mitchell/Webb video is correct. They could have decided that the best place to fake the moon landings was on the Moon itself.

Gregster
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From: Rochester, NY, US
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posted 07-31-2010 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gregster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While one may question his theories on other subjects, Richard C. Hoagland has helped prepare a comprehensive debunking of the moon landing hoax theory: Who Mourns For Apollo? Part I, Part II.

Also, here is a nice video of the latest LRO images of the Apollo 12 landing site compared with photos taken on the surface.

Robert Pearlman
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From: Houston, TX
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posted 07-31-2010 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gregster:
Richard C. Hoagland has helped prepare...
From "Who Mourns for Apollo?"
Let us be clear; we are all uniformly, unabashedly, "conspiracy theorists" here. We are 100-percent convinced that there has been a cover up by NASA of some extraordinary discoveries made in the course of the agency's 40-year year history. That said, one thing they did not do, unquestionably, was fake the Moon landings.
Credit for being upfront here, but one wonders why self-described conspiracy theorists need to defend the moon landings...
As you will see, some of these charges can actually be more easily explained not just by a complete rejection of the Moon Hoax theory, but a combination of conventional explanations and our own "glass ruins" model of the Moon...

If NASA is eventually forced to admit that there was more to the Face on Mars than meets the Eye, that maybe they missed something "the first three times around," or that there is truly something "ancient and extraordinary on the Moon" ... then it will be crucial to have thoroughly discredited the "conspiracy theorists" out there (read: us).

In other words, the argument being put forth here is that the moon hoax is in fact a government conspiracy to discredit all conspiracy theorists to hide... get ready for it... the giant glass alien ruins floating over the Moon.

With friends like these, who needs enemies...


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