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Author
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Topic: Apollo 9 to the Moon
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Max Q
Member Posts: 399
From: Whyalla South Australia
Registered: Mar 2007
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posted 02-02-2009 04:37 AM
   
I was wondering why the Apollo 9 mission never went to the Moon. Now I am aware it was a complicated flight first flight of the LM and all but why was it necessary to do the required manoeuvres in Earth orbit first. Was it just the fact that they had a couple of LM's that where to heavy to land on the Moon and if thats the case since a Saturn V was used the Moon would have been more spectacular. |
garymilgrom
Member Posts: 1966
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 02-02-2009 07:29 AM
The concern was simple - safety. If something went wrong on this first flight of a complex spacecraft (and computer and software and procedures) they were only 150 miles from safety instead of 238,000 miles away.Remember in the 60's rendezvous and docking were not the routine operations they are today. Throw in a never-tried spacecraft and you'd be unwise to do this any further from home than necessary. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 02-02-2009 11:13 AM
But if Spider had failed to dock with Gumdrop, McDivitt and Schweickart might have just as well been on the moon.Kim |
NASAROB
Member Posts: 38
From: Astoria NY
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 02-02-2009 11:41 AM
While they would have been out of communication when they went around the dark side, there were also periods of time they were out of range while in earth orbit. Also an EVA in lunar orbit would have been spetacular. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 02-02-2009 12:41 PM
I suspect they stayed in earth orbit simply because there was nothing in the mission objectives that necessitated them being in lunar orbit to complete their assigned tasks. While I don't think the exercises were any safer in earth orbit than they were in lunar orbit, removing the lunar voyage removed any additional unnecessary risks associated with such a journey. |
jasonelam
Member Posts: 691
From: Monticello, KY USA
Registered: Mar 2007
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posted 02-02-2009 05:41 PM
I think that the main reason that Apollo 9 didn't go to the moon were many. In the event of problems at any time in the flight, it would have been easier to return to the CM in Earth orbit than Lunar orbit. Remember that Apollo 8 had just returned home and we learned about Mascons that were located at spots on the moon, which would affect the orbit of both spacecraft. The Apollo 9 flight was the first flight of the CM/LM "stack" and it would seem best that the first tests were done in LEO and not in Lunar Orbit. There were still too many concerns about what could happen if things went wrong. |
John Charles
Member Posts: 342
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 02-02-2009 10:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by garymilgrom:
The concern was simple - safety...
And simplicity. No need to complicate what was already the most complex mission ever attempted. Recall also that, up until the Apollo fire caused a rearrangement of the flight schedule, Apollo 9 was Apollo 2, with the CSM and LM to be launched separately on two Saturn IB boosters, SA-205 and SA-208--the mission was usually referred to as AS-258. The Saturn IBs couldn't have sent the mission beyond LEO anyway. So the mission was restricted to LEO even after the IBs were replaced by the Saturn V, to avoid additional delay required for replanning for lunar orbit. It is interesting to read backward through the historical documents to see that the first CSM/LM test flight in LEO was originally planned to be launched on a single Saturn IB, but as the CSM and LM weights increased, the LM was reduced to just the ascent stage without the descent stage, to permit renedzvous and docking practice. When even that reduced combination grew too heavy, then the two IB scenario was developed. ------------------
John Charles
Houston, Texas |
Proponent
Member Posts: 59
From: London
Registered: Oct 2008
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posted 02-09-2009 06:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by John Charles:
It is interesting to read backward through the historical documents to see that the first CSM/LM test flight in LEO was originally planned to be launched on a single Saturn IB
Are you sure about that? Could you provide a reference? |
John Charles
Member Posts: 342
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 02-09-2009 09:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Proponent:
Are you sure about that? Could you provide a reference?
Thanks for asking! (My posts usually seem to kill a thread.) This is from program documents I have pulled out of the JSC archives, and I don't think they have ever been published. I will look for my copies in my random-order files. ------------------
John Charles
Houston, Texas |
dwmzmm
Member Posts: 82
From: Katy, TX USA
Registered: Dec 2006
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posted 02-09-2009 10:45 PM
I recall reading somewhere years back one plan for testing the Apollo CM/SM with the LEM was to use two Saturn 1-B's, one for the Apollo spacecraft and the other for the LEM. Maybe that could be what you had in mind. There's no way a single Saturn 1-B could lift the combined Apollo/LEM spacecrafts into orbit. ------------------
Dave, NAR # 21853 SR.
Challenger 498 Section
NAR Advisor |
Delta7
Member Posts: 1527
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 02-10-2009 11:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by dwmzmm:
There's no way a single Saturn 1-B could lift the combined Apollo/LEM spacecrafts into orbit.
Maybe with a mockup of the LM ascent stage only? |
mikej
Member Posts: 481
From: Germantown, WI USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 02-10-2009 04:04 PM
I, too, vaguely recall reading that the Saturn IB was originally programmed to carry a CSM/LM. I know I've seen Marshall-built cut-away Saturn IB models carrying both a CSM and an LM.While searching the U.S. Space & Rocket Center Archives at UAH for something mostly unrelated, I happened across a press release entitled "NASA Announces Changes in Saturn Missions", dated October 30, 1963, announcing the cut of the manned Saturn I missions: The Saturn I, a two-stage vehicle, capable of placing 10 tons in earth orbit, was to be used to test Apollo command and service modules. The Saturn I-B is an uprated version of the Saturn I vehicle capable of placing 16 tons in earth orbit and will be used to test the complete lunar orbit configuration of Apollo - the command module, service module and lunar excursion module (LEM) I also found This is Your Chrysler Saturn Story (not dated, but published between SA-7's launch in September 1964 and SA-9's launch in February 1965): The primary mission of the Chrysler-built S-IB booster is to launch the Apollo spacecraft and S-IVB stage into a low-earth orbit for spacecraft testing and astronaut training.The Apollo spacecraft shown on the left consists of three distinct modules: (1) the conical Command Module which will carry the three-man Apollo crew and their guidance and control instrumentation, (2) the Service Module which contains the spacecraft's primary propulsion units, and (3) the Lunar Excursion Module (LEM) which will be used to explore the moon. Once in orbit, the astronauts will separate the Command Module and its propulsion unit from the LEM and perform docking maneuvers as shown on the upper right. While the vehicles are docked, two of the three astronauts will transfer to the LEM. The LEM will then be detached from the S-IVB stage and run through a series of rendezvous tests with the Command Module. And FILM SCRIPT for SATURN C-1/C-1B QUARTERLY FILM REPORT No. 13 (Covering July, August, September, 1962): A new concept of the Saturn space vehicle was announced on July 11th by NASA headquarters the C-1B configuration. C-1B will represent an interim step between the present Saturn C-1 configuration and the Advanced Saturn C-5 configuration.The first stage of the C-1B will be essentially a C-1 Block II booster. The second stage will be a S-IVB now being designed as the third stage of the C-5. Flight reliability can thus be built up before its use on C-5. Saturn C-1B will place the three-man Apollo spacecraft into earth orbit, prior to its launching by C-5 on lunar flights. The Apollo command module, at the top, will carry the three astronauts plus guidance and control instruments. Directly below is the service module, containing the primary spacecraft propulsion elements. At bottom is the lunar excursion module. Qualification testing of the Saturn C-l/Apollo in orbit around the earth will include the transfer of two astronauts from the command module to the lunar excursion module. This maneuver will ultimately be performed in lunar orbit in preparation for lunar landing. So, between July 11, 1962 and at least September 1964, it appears that the plan was to launch a CSM/LM on a single Saturn IB. |
Proponent
Member Posts: 59
From: London
Registered: Oct 2008
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posted 02-13-2009 10:59 AM
Hey, that's great stuff! Thanks for the references. Especially the USSRC digital library--it could be as damaging to my productivity as NTRS was when I first encountered it!!!I was convinced that the launch of both CSM and LM on a single IB had never been planned, but there can be little doubt that I was wrong. This means that the combined weight of the CSM and LM was expected to be no more than about 40,000 lb. I wonder what the anticipated module weights were at that time? quote:
Originally posted by mikej:
FILM SCRIPT for SATURN C-1/C-1B QUARTERLY FILM REPORT No. 13 (Covering July, August, September, 1962)
This script mentions that the Saturn camera pods were tested on an Atlas flight. I'd love to see that footage...By the way, just so you know, I now officially hate you: the USSRC site is just too good to be true and will render me utterly distracted for an extended period!  I mean it's got things like the Saturn Vehicle Committee report from Dec. 1959! You'll probably soon be getting complaints from my wife, too! |
John Charles
Member Posts: 342
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 03-03-2009 10:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by John Charles:
I will look for my copies in my random-order files.
Here are some documents that show early plans to launch the CSM and the LM ascent stage only on the same S-IB. Still no luck finding a document that shows CSM + entire LM on S-IB. I'll keep looking.------------------
John Charles
Houston, Texas |
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