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Author
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Topic: Removal of seats from the LM
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mensax
Member Posts: 861
From: Virginia
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 01-14-2008 05:11 PM
   
I enjoyed very much the scene in the TV series From the Earth to the Moon when the LM's designers realized that seats were not needed in the LM. And I know I've read this same story in at least a couple of books, but it wasn't until recently that I read in an obscure publication who the noted person was who first had this bright idea. Any guesses?Noah |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1647
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 01-14-2008 05:56 PM
I suspect that like the idea to use the LM as a lifeboat for Apollo 13, there will be more than one claim to this idea. In the book Moonlander by Thomas Kelly on page 63, he claims that he asked the question "What if we get rid of the seats?" when he, John Rigsby, and Gene Harms were rehashing the cabin design. |
mensax
Member Posts: 861
From: Virginia
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 01-14-2008 09:31 PM
This revelation was made by Gene Harms who recalled, after describing the LM seats to this individual, "He reminded me that this vehicle was flown only in a zero and 1/6th "G" environment. Maybe it would be possible to stand in this vehicle and 150 pounds could be saved by deleting the seats. After recovering from this apparently benign statement, I gulped and said he had a very good point. It can now be told that I submitted the first chit written against the crew station design at the formal review. It stated that the seats should be deleted thereby saving 150 pounds." Guess who made this suggestion to Gene Harms. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-14-2008 11:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mensax:
Guess who made this suggestion to Gene Harms.
I'm pulling this guess out of thin air, but I'm wondering if, by some odd coincidence of history, that person might have been Neil Armstrong. |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1758
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 01-15-2008 05:42 AM
I thought I read it somewhere that it was Pete Conrad.(?) |
mensax
Member Posts: 861
From: Virginia
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 01-15-2008 06:40 AM
From "Lunar Module Remembrances, 25th anniversary of the first manned landing"..."The ascent stage was brought back into the building for last minute finishing touches before a scheduled review by the GAC and NASA team members. While sitting in one of the seats, a gentlemen came up to the mock-up and asked if he could come into my mock-up. I asked him to sit in the other seat. He introduced himself as John Glenn. A chill went down my spine when I shook hands with him. I described all the design features of the mock-p and he absorbed it all very quietly. After a brief pause he asked me very simply how much each seat weighed and why I had them in the cabin. I told him that they were estimated to be 75 pounds each, and all flight stations had seats in them, it seemed logical to put them in the LEM... He reminded me that this vehicle was flown only in a zero and 1/6th "G" environment. Maybe it would be possible to stand in this vehicle and 150 pounds could be saved by deleting the seats. After recovering from this apparently benign statement, I gulped and said he had a very good point. It can now be told that I submitted the first chit written against the crew station design at the formal review. It stated that the seats should be deleted thereby saving 150 pounds." Gene Harms I just got a real kick out of reading this. I thought I had a full appreciation of how much the original seven astronauts contributed to space flight and spacecraft design, but I never realized that they had a hand in the design of the lunar module. Noah |
E2M Lem Man
Member Posts: 846
From: Los Angeles CA. USA
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 01-16-2008 04:18 PM
WOW - I didn't know that!And by the way, in that scene in "From the Earth to the Moon", I am the heavyset guy in the glasses, gang! We re-shot that about five different ways! Jim Busby
ALF |
astroborg
Member Posts: 203
From: Woodbridge, VA, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-30-2008 12:00 PM
That's my favorite episode of the series. A lot of teamwork exemplified there.-Rich |
R.Glueck
Member Posts: 115
From: Winterport, Maine, USA
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted 01-30-2008 06:25 PM
My very favorite part is the cardboard mockup being constructed in the office. I used that scene to make a small model which I retained in my classroom for awhile. Now I want to build it life size in my classroom using old refrigerator box cardboard. The John Glenn story is fabulous! |
compass
Member Posts: 42
From: uk
Registered: May 2007
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posted 01-31-2008 06:46 AM
I have often considered this about the LM. Whilst the crew were on EVA, the LM being left unattended, the cabin depressurized, the door I guess closed over but not secured, how was any ambient temperature maintained in the cabin? What with the extreme highs and lows of lunar surface temperature would an EVA crew not return to LM, pressurize the craft and then have to experience either a very hot cabin or freezing temperatures? |
John Charles
Member Posts: 342
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 01-31-2008 08:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mensax:
From "Lunar Module Remembrances, 25th anniversary of the first manned landing"...
Noah, does that source give a date (even approximately) for the Glenn LEM-seat comment? ------------------
John Charles
Houston, Texas |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 02-01-2008 02:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by compass:
I have often considered this about the LM. Whilst the crew were on EVA, the LM being left unattended, the cabin depressurized, the door I guess closed over but not secured, how was any ambient temperature maintained in the cabin? What with the extreme highs and lows of lunar surface temperature would an EVA crew not return to LM, pressurize the craft and then have to experience either a very hot cabin or freezing temperatures?
Well, the thermal shields (layers of Mylar and Kapton foil) of the LM would have helped to maintain the temperature inside. Even with an absense of air, you should still get temperature stabilization as the internal structure of the LM would still have been protected by the shields on the outside. It is the same principle with unmanned satellites, which are usually also covered with similar layers of insulating foil to help create passive thermal control. Just because there is no air, it doesn't mean that the thing would bake or freeze instantly when the air is lost. Cooling water also more then likely would still be circulating in the electronic systems of the LM as well since mission control would need to monitor the systems in their standby mode. |
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