Posts: 678
From: Hudson, MA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 08-17-2006 08:13 PM            

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For the goal of the moon landing "before this decade is out..." when exactly was the end of the decade?

My understanding is that the decade of the 1960s ended at midnight on December 31, 1970 (just as the 20th Century ended on December 31, 2000). Yet so many publications about the moon landing and Apollo program lead you to believe that the decade ended at the end of 1969 and that we "just made it" to Kennedy's goal (i.e. the AS-204/Apollo 1 fire in 1967 set the program back so much, etc). Am I wrong about this?

Posts: 3165
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-17-2006 08:31 PM            

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You can bet NASA would have said (correctly) that the decade ended in December 1970 if they'd needed that time!

While Apollo 11 might have felt like "just"... remember that Kennedy's goal was fulfilled TWICE in 1969...

Remember too that Kennedy, hoping for a second term which would have meant he was still President in 1968, could take faith in optimistic projections from NASA that a moon landing could be both requested and take place during his presidency.

Posts: 3160
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-17-2006 09:02 PM            

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A decade is a period of 10 years. The decade which we call "The Sixties" began on 1 January 1960 and ended 10 years later on 31 December 1969. By definition, a period which is called "The Sixties" can't include a year from "The Seventies."

This isn't the same as the old debate about the 20th century. Our calendar never had a "Year Zero" but "The Sixties" started with 1960, not 1961.

Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

Posts: 3165
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-17-2006 10:02 PM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by Blackarrow:
This isn't the same as the old debate about the 20th century. Our calendar never had a "Year Zero" but "The Sixties" started with 1960, not 1961.

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At the risk of getting pedantic, that is not correct. They are actually linked, and the debate is the same — the difference between ordinal and cardinal units of time, where there is a common usage for cardinal decades and centuries (i.e. decade ends Dec '69, century ends Dec '99) but ordinal dates (Dec '70 and Dec '00) actually fit our Gregorian calendar more. Otherwise,if you use two systems at the same time, you end up having a year that belongs to a decade from a different century!

So, technically, best matching the calendar we adhere to, the Sixties ended in Dec '70. For this thread, for the purposes of PR, I am sure that if NASA landed in '69 and the Russians in '70, NASA would have said they were the only ones who made it in the "Sixties."

And if NASA had made it first in 1970, they would have said they technically still made it in the Sixties.

And if they had landed any time before May 25, 1971, even by a day, NASA would have said when Kennedy said "before this decade is out," he really meant ten years from the day of the speech! PR people can be ingenious...

Posts: 3160
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-18-2006 01:34 PM            

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You may or may not be right in a technical sense, but I think the vast majority of people would accept that "The Sixties" ran from 1 January 1960 until 31 December 1969. A decade is a period — ANY period — of ten years. We can attach the name to any arbitrary period. My first decade ended on 12 November 1964, but that doesn't mean anything to anyone else.

On reflection, I agree with your final paragraph! (I assume we all know what "PR" is short for in Latin?)

Posts: 3165
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-18-2006 05:44 PM            

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Yes, we are in agreement. The vast majority of people think in terms of the cardinal calendar — including me. I celebrated 1999 becoming 2000, not 2000 becoming 2001.

When it comes to "The Sixties" in particular there is another interpretation - the social or fashion aspect. For example, the social history "White Heat" views "The Sixties" as essentially 1956 to 1970. Many other historians say the social "sixties" was essentially 1963-73... confusing, perhaps, but thought-provoking too.

Posts: 232
From: Oxford, UK
Registered: Mar 2006