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Author
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Topic: Legality of owning an Apollo moon rock?
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Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 08-16-2017 06:23 PM
   
Is there any way to legally own a moon rock?How about if it was gifted from an Apollo astronaut with documentation? I am just asking is there any instance where it could be legal? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-16-2017 06:29 PM
In a word, no.In a few more words... no Apollo astronaut was ever given an Apollo-recovered moon rock to keep, so no astronaut was ever in the position to gift one. For that matter, no individual — not even a President of the United States — has been gifted an Apollo-recovered moon rock. At least one Apollo astronaut apparently gave away samples of lunar simulant — terrestrial material assembled to resemble lunar rock — during his mission's world tour and did not always stress that it wasn't a real moon rock. Some of the children who received those samples have come forward, now as adults, thinking they possessed an actual piece of the moon. Otherwise, if someone steps forward and says they have an Apollo moon rock gifted to them by an astronaut, it is either (a) a case of mistaken identity; (b) a case of theft; or (c) a case of fraud. |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 08-16-2017 06:39 PM
Robert, you are a treasure trove of great information. Thank you so much. |
datkatz
Member Posts: 176
From: New York, NY
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 08-16-2017 06:42 PM
What about Soviet lunar samples?
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Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 08-16-2017 06:46 PM
But during the Nixon administration, though, I have seen reports of "gifted" lunar samples from the Apollo expeditions to countries around the world from the U.S. State Department. I have those newspaper reports and one was even authored by myself in a Florida Today column. Anything more about this, Robert, and thanks. |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 08-16-2017 07:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
reports of "gifted" lunar samples from the Apollo expeditions to countries around the world...
This collectSPACE article is an account of those gifts and a running record of their whereabouts. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-16-2017 07:22 PM
Yes, the U.S. did gift 135 (or so) foreign nations, the 50 U.S. states and U.S. properties with lunar sample displays. They did so twice, after Apollo 11 (as linked to by Steve) and after Apollo 17 (the Apollo 11 samples were pebbles, the scraps found at the bottom of the collection bags; the Apollo 17 "goodwill" moon rocks were all cut from a single sample, collected for the purpose and dedicated to the children of the world by Gene Cernan and Harrison Schmitt while still on the moon).Since 2002, a team led by collectSPACE has been in search of where those samples are today. Those samples were public gifts — they were presented on behalf of the United States to the populations of each recipient. Most recipient countries would need to pass a law to transfer the moon rock to an individual. NASA also presented moon rocks — in name only — to the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo astronauts (as well as Walter Cronkite and John F. Kennedy, posthumously) as Ambassador of Exploration awards, but those were required to be immediately provided to a museum or educational institution for display (and even then, title to the lunar sample remained with NASA). quote:
Originally posted by datkatz:
What about Soviet lunar samples?
The Soviets brought back very little material (0.7 pounds by three Luna missions). A few very small grains (0.2 grams each) were presented to key individuals in the Soviet space program and at least one of these displays was sold at Sotheby's in 1993 for $442,500. |
4allmankind
Member Posts: 1043
From: Dallas
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 08-16-2017 07:55 PM
How about a lunar artifact originating from an Apollo-era astronaut that during its use was stained with lunar material? |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 08-16-2017 07:57 PM
Very good, Robert, and I had almost forgotten about the former astronaut-gifted lunar sample displays (along with a few non-astronaut personnel) ambassador exploration awards, but as you have explained, their ownership titles remained with NASA. I was at the Astronaut Hall of Fame and the space center for two of those special award presentations, and have just now remembered those occasions.According to some of my sources though, Robert, there had been a stolen gift plaque in Nicaragua that had contained a sliver of Apollo lunar rock. It had been stolen in 1979 when the government leader was overthrown. That was when, during the early/mid-1980s, I had received a very strange phone call asking if I had any serious interest in possibly acquiring a piece or segment of that same lunar sample, as I recall of the conversation, though it has been well over 30 years ago. Of course I declined any interest in it whatsoever. Another U.S. gifted plaque presented by President Nixon to Pakistan's president Ali Bhutto almost found its way to the British Museum. During a military coup in 1972, members of Bhutto's family escaped from the presidential palace with the moon rock plaque. Years later, a "lunar salesman" as the report goes on to say, was told by a British Museum official that the lunar rock had "no commercial value at all" because the museum already had in its archives another moon rock sample with the space agency's compliments. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-16-2017 08:32 PM
The Nicaraguan Apollo 11 display was purchased (under questionable circumstances) by Las Vegas casino owner Bob Stupak in November 1987 for $10,000 and 200,000 shares of stock. Three years after his passing, the display was returned by his attorney Richard Wright to the people of Nicaragua by way of NASA.The Pakistan story is a new one to me (and one I will look further into). As of today, the location of the country's Apollo 11 display is unknown (by us) but its Apollo 17 display is held in the archives at the National Museum of Pakistan in Karachi. If you have further information about which sample was offered to the British museum, please email me. quote:
Originally posted by 4allmankind:
How about a lunar artifact originating from an Apollo-era astronaut that during its use was stained with lunar material?
Lunar-dust stained items that were retained by the Apollo astronauts as mementos are their property, per the 2012 law that granted them title to the artifacts. (That law specifically excludes loose "lunar rocks and other lunar material.") |
SpaceSteve
Member Posts: 428
From: San Antonio TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 08-17-2017 01:07 AM
I seem to remember reading within the past few years (probably on cS), that one of the displays presented to a US State was unaccounted for, and was later discovered to have been included in the (at the time of presentation) particular state governor's personal belongings when he/she left office.Am I remembering correctly, or am I as crazy as I feel? |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 08-17-2017 08:41 AM
It was John D. Vanderhoof of Colorado. He kept it for 35 years until people started searching for it. "I didn't even know it was anything to have," Vanderhoof said. "It's just memories of old stuff I had." |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-17-2017 09:36 AM
As it turns out, there were multiple moon rocks that ended up with former governors' effects. In addition to Colorado's Apollo 17 sample, there was also West Virginia's, which was passed from the former governor to his dentist; and Arkansas' display, which was put into storage with Bill Clinton's gubernatorial papers. |
MadSci
Member Posts: 226
From: Maryland, USA
Registered: Oct 2008
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posted 08-18-2017 09:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Chuckster01:
Is there any way to legally own a moon rock?
Yes. It is perfectly legal to own a moon rock, as long as it was delivered to Earth via natural processes.In other words, a lunar meteorite. I have several small samples of them, from both the mare and highlands. Very cool to look at and to "touch the Moon." |
Lunar rock nut
Member Posts: 911
From: Oklahoma city, Oklahoma U.S.A.
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 08-19-2017 06:55 AM
I also have some lunar material, several pieces of NWA 482. I once gifted a small piece to Robert and I hope he still has it in his possession. It is cool to hold it and look up at the moon. It is also strange the effect it has on people. For instance one of the meteorite dealers on eBay I had worked with in 2006 revealed to me that he and some friends had eaten, yes ingested, some of the cutting dust to no ill effects other than the fact they had the desire to do it.  |
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