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Author
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Topic: 371145585723: Apollo 15 flown failed parachute
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astrobock
Member Posts: 155
From: WV, USA
Registered: Sep 2006
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posted 11-23-2014 12:42 PM
   
I recently acquired an Apollo 15 space event cover with a piece of the failed Apollo 15 parachute signed by Dave Scott attached. There are other unsigned parachute pieces currently for sale on eBay by the same seller. I read the failed parachute was not recovered. Does anyone have more information about the parachute failure investigation and how this came into collector hands? Thank you. On August 7, 1971 the Apollo 15 landed from the Moon with Astronauts Scott, Worden and Irwin onboard. During landing one of the three parachutes failed to open and was brought to Houston for inspection. After technical review some pieces of the parachute were given to involved persons. So this piece made the same flight like Al Worden, to and around the Moon.  |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47239
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-23-2014 12:57 PM
David Scott has had a long policy of not signing flown items that haven't originated from his collection. How sure are you of the signature's authenticity? (It is difficult to see in the provided image.)The failed parachute was not recovered and only one of the two good parachutes was retrieved. That parachute appears to be intact as part of the National Air and Space Museum's collection. The suggestion therefore is that the seller's claim that these parachute pieces flew on Apollo 15 is false. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3320
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 11-23-2014 01:13 PM
Most interesting that the cachet depicted here appears to be a sticker-attached replica of Herrick's "15 moon phases" artwork used on Worden's flown lunar orbital postal covers. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4944
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-23-2014 01:57 PM
Wouldn't discount the possibility that a segment was retained by the recovery team or even the crew itself during the transit back to Hawaii; or after the post flight investigation to discover why the other chute failed). The parachute in the Smithsonian was originally documented by JSC as being received incomplete (9x25 foot length segments of riser line missing, 12x12 inch tears, quite a few holes inflicted during recovery ops). |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47239
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-23-2014 02:36 PM
Okay, that's good to know. That said, the cover alone doesn't provide enough provenance to establish authenticity one way or the other. And it certainly isn't as the seller describes, parts of the failed parachute. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47239
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-23-2014 05:01 PM
Well, thanks to the research of another cS member, here's a bit more on the history of these fragments.See lot 849 from the April 2006 Regency-Superior auction: A rare piece of orange parachute fabric (4"x4") from the parachute that failed during re-entry. The piece has a typed: 'Apollo 15 To: Joe F. Martin' and is crew-signed by Dave Scott (faint), Al Worden and Jim Irwin. The piece doesn't explicitly say that this fragment was flown, but that is all that it can be to have the importance to have been crew signed.  I don't know if I agree with Regency's logic that because it was crew-signed it had to be flown, and the consignor and/or Regency made the mistake of stating it was from the failed parachute, but at least this old catalog listing establishes some of the history for these current sales. The Irwin cut segment was sold on eBay (371145583187). |
astrobock
Member Posts: 155
From: WV, USA
Registered: Sep 2006
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posted 11-23-2014 05:16 PM
Thank you for the comments and research so far. Here is a close up of the Scott signature. I will send this post to the seller to see if more information is available.  |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4944
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-23-2014 06:48 PM
Given the ripstop fabric on the envelope has characteristics compliant with known good examples and assuming the Scott signature is authentic one can reasonably conclude the material originated from an Apollo parachute main canopy. I believe there is a higher probability the material was cropped from a flown (or test flown) canopy because the few existing unflown examples remain packed under compression in deployment bags. |
astrobock
Member Posts: 155
From: WV, USA
Registered: Sep 2006
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posted 11-24-2014 11:57 AM
Thank you again for the information shared here. The seller wrote me back and said in part: It is the piece of the parachute that was sold on the California auction, and the signatures on the parachute are genuine.On August 7th, 1971 for the first time in Apollo history a parachute was recovered and flown to Houston for inspection. In May 1990 I met Jim Irwin buying several flown items from him. One of my questions was the landing with two parachutes. Irwin told me that the parachute was recovered and flown to Houston. Meanwhile, I found NASA documentation explaining that the parachute brought to Houston was a working one. I have no doubt that this parachute piece came from the moon-flown Apollo 15 parachute. |
David Carey
Member Posts: 912
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 11-24-2014 12:49 PM
Certainly, you have the Scott-signed portion of the larger crew-signed and Regency-auctioned swatch. If you overlay the Scott signature from the auction pic with your Scott-only strip you'll find a perfect match for shape, ink-blobs, and placement. Use the rip-stop threads as a 'grid' and you'll see it all lines up. Your swatch also has a (properly-located) upper-right tip of Worden's 'W'. Similar matches present for the Irwin signature in the eBay auction Robert mentions. If the originally-auctioned piece was flown, then so was yours. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4944
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-24-2014 02:52 PM
On August 7th, 1971 for the first time in Apollo history a parachute was recovered and flown to Houston for inspection. Certainly not the first time... |
astrobock
Member Posts: 155
From: WV, USA
Registered: Sep 2006
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posted 11-28-2014 07:55 AM
Did Joe F. Martin play a role in the Apollo 15 CM recovery effort or parachute failure investigation? |
spaceflori
Member Posts: 1515
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000
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posted 10-22-2021 04:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
David Scott has had a long policy of not signing flown items that haven't originated from his collection.
I have seen Scott signing these covers with attached parachute material at Spacefest for collectors. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47239
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-22-2021 08:31 AM
Florian, you're replying to a discussion from 2014. Scott may have changed his signing policies since (though I believe he still generally refrains from signing anything as flown that did not originate from his collection). |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1749
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 10-22-2021 12:12 PM
At the 2019 Spacefest he signed my Apollo 15 flown checklist page, but - for good reason - he would not sign it as flown. I like his policy (one which most astronauts follow); once a artifact has left their hands, they cannot verify that it is authentic. But we did get into a debate as to whether it came from his collection and was flown. I quickly tracked down Florian and he sent me a screen shot of Dave's COA. I then returned to Dave and showed it to him; then he remembered and began apologizing for his oversight. I almost had to beg him to stop apologizing to a simple Earth bound geologist! |
spaceflori
Member Posts: 1515
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000
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posted 10-24-2021 02:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Florian, you're replying to a discussion from 2014.
Haha... you are right, just realized this!Correct, he does not certify it as flown but simply signs them. That's what most astronauts do these days. |
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