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Author
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Topic: Is space memorabilia collecting on a decline?
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Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 968
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 01-20-2014 03:19 PM
  
quote:
Originally posted by J.L:
As Joel has stated, when the Shuttle Program came to a close, I believe it did take the wind somewhat out of the hobby.
Like it or not; that's a stone cold fact.Not only "the hobby" has suffered but public interest is space travel in general has waned considerably. In regards to private enterprise alone providing routine inexpensive safe access for space tourists; various groups and eccentric millionaires have been promising that since the mid 80's and it hasn't happened yet. Unfortunately, it's a pipedream at best and a dead end boondoggle at worst. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-20-2014 03:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by datkatz:
Do you think it's possible that we are the only two?
I wasn't suggesting you and JL were alone in your opinion; rather I was allowing for there to be others without speaking for them. quote:
Originally posted by datkatz:
Why, Robert, is Hadfield better known than 5/6 of the men who actually explored another celestial body? Has the public's interest in space exploration come down to weightless guitar-playing?
There are three generations who are alive today who weren't alive for the moon landings. The Apollo astronauts are figures from their parents', grandparents' (or even great grandparents') time. For a growing segment of the population, the moonwalkers are about as interesting as other historical figures.That is to say, life goes on. Some of those who lived through Apollo have a difficulty setting aside the achievements of the past when considering the space activities that followed. That is natural, but it doesn't mean that the accomplishments of today aren't just as interesting to others. Why is Hadfield better known? In part because his missions are more recent, but also because he engaged the public in a way not possible during the Apollo years. He directly interacted with millions of people in real time. They weren't just watching him in space on TV, they were communicating and participating with him in his expedition. Hadfield is just one example. There are numerous other reasons to find interest and excitement in today's space activities, if you want to. If you don't, that's fine too, but they do exist. quote:
Originally posted by datkatz:
And it's provided far more unique fundamental scientific data (e.g. the confirmation of the existence of the Higgs boson) than the ISS ever will.
Maybe it has, maybe it won't. Stating that it has, as a fact, is beyond your or my abilities (unless you have a DeLorean outfitted with a flux capacitor parked in your driveway). (And for the record, it wasn't my personal contention that the ISS is the most complex engineering accomplishment in history, but rather that is how NASA and other organizations have described it.) |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 596
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 01-20-2014 03:29 PM
As I stated before: quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo:
I don't think interest itself has waned. Rather, I believe the interest is still there. People still look to the future for a better life. What we lack now is exciting events to make that interest alive.
There's an important difference. The INTEREST is still there, it's the excitement that has waned... |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-20-2014 03:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Cozmosis22:
Not only "the hobby" has suffered but public interest is space travel in general has waned considerably.
Polls, social media and other data indicators (some as already stated) suggest otherwise. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-20-2014 06:17 PM
If there is a common thread among space collectors — or at least among those in the collectSPACE community — it seems to be that none have the same interests.We may collect similar items but we all have our individual reasons for doing so. And it is because of this that our collections are unique; that there is no checklist for a "complete" space collection. So it should go without saying that we all find different aspects of space exploration of interest — as does the general public at large. Manned versus robotic missions, astronomy versus exploration, collectibles versus artifacts... it is these differences that make our hobby interesting. We are all going to approach a question like "Is space memorabilia collecting on a decline?" from different perspectives. As demonstrated by the resulting discussion, some will agree, some will disagree, and no one will have the answer. Because it really can't be answered. Space memorabilia is such a diverse topic — and space exploration even more so — that to try to gauge interest (or excitement) is going to be completely subjective. What some see as a decline, others see as changing trends. I will make one observation, though: many topics started on collectSPACE get one or two replies and then slip into the archive. If space collectors were truly losing interest in their hobby, then I'd expect this thread to be no different. But the 40+ replies clearly demonstrate an interest — a passionate one — by a cross section of collectors of different ages, geographical location, means and, well, interest. So long as discussions like this continue from time to time, I'd suggest the hobby is still engaging its participants. |
datkatz
Member Posts: 176
From: New York, NY
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 01-20-2014 06:52 PM
True enough. And very well put. |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1463
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 01-20-2014 09:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Cozmosis22:
Unfortunately, it's a pipedream at best and a dead end boondoggle at worst.
And you are basing that on what information or experience? |
J.L
Member Posts: 674
From: Bloomington, Illinois, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted 01-20-2014 10:28 PM
Again... we are doing stuff in space we were doing 40 years ago. Skylab was a precursor to ISS. People from the Apollo generation want exploration. The ISS is not exploration. The likes of SpaceX will never have the funding for real exploration. Granted it is the best game in town right now. Hopefully the tables will turn. I give them credit for effort. My generation grew up in an era of adventure and "can do" spirit. Unfortunately the younger folks have been shortchanged. What we have now is something that does not excite me much. I grew up with landings on the moon... I expected more by now! |
JBoe
Member Posts: 960
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted 01-21-2014 06:36 AM
This topic and its posts are great to get a prospective of all generations account and collecting throughout NASA's history. I agree that without additional funding from NASA to companies like SpaceX, Orbital, and Sierra Nevada (to name a few) they will not initially accomplish goals set by like the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo so quickly. Their funding and private funding is getting them off to a great start and an additional stipend from government will allow them to obtain their goals even quicker.I've only been alive through the shuttle program, unfortunately it has been discontinued. I find that I can live through your experiences with the earlier programs as with today's commercial programs going through the same or similar milestones. Look at the Orion program and how there are similarities with Apollo. |
ZeroG
Member Posts: 27
From: St. Louis, MO., USA
Registered: Apr 2013
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posted 01-21-2014 07:34 AM
JL, would tend to agree with you, I experience frustration (from my perspective, not historical) at the slow pace of space "exploration". My father was lab manager (microbiological services) of the LRL at JSC during the Apollo 14 through 17 and early shuttle flights, and I was blessed to have lived and met some of the Apollo/shuttle astronauts and then worked a couple of summer internships at JSC, and flew on the vomit comet. So I "pine" for those days again! But alas, it is not to be ever again! From a historical perspective, space exploration is going at a "fast" pace! I never thought that in my lifetime, I would have the possibility as an average citizen of traveling up into space. XCOR Lynx is the ship I'm talking about... affordable (95k) if one wants it bad enough (pay half-loan the rest), or the balloon ride into near space. Virgin Galactic is a ride for the rich! SLS/NASA and growing private space initiatives will work out and the international interest in going back to the moon will carrying us back there in our lifetime, with NASA/SLS pushing us to Mars, maybe also in our lifetime. JL, we are getting to relive "Apollo" all over again with the parachute tests, capsule water drops, the Orion EFT flight later this year (hopefully I will witness that one live!) I'm hopeful for the future of manned space flight! The ISS is the greatest engineering project ever in space, we have been in space internationally since 2000! These are great days, with many nations now participating and looking outward, instead of just two, in the old days! |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1463
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 01-21-2014 08:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by J.L:
The likes of SpaceX will never have the funding for real exploration. Granted it is the best game in town right now. Hopefully the tables will turn. I give them credit for effort.
Don't look for the US government to provide the funding either, there is no driving need. The Cold War is over.What is your source of data saying SpaceX can't? |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 01-21-2014 08:21 AM
I too grew up watching landings on the moon and nothing else will ever compare with that until something similiar is achieved again. However, the collecting and interest for my part is also based on nostalgia.When I sometimes become a little tired of spaceflight I turn my attentions to another hobby or interest for a while. I don't think it's a problem just with spaceflight, you have to have more "irons in the fire" too. Don't forget collecting also costs money and unemployment and economic downturns also affect purchasing trends. |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 596
From: Lansing, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 01-21-2014 01:17 PM
ZeroG - Good points that I'd considered, but not really knew how or the initiative to put in writing. I've said before that we are at the lull between gov't funded programs and commercial enterprise. In a lot of ways, this is very similar to how aviation developed. I believe we are seeing commercial space travel in its infancy, just as was witnessed in the 30's-40's with aviation. Think about it, before that, aviation was almost solely used by governments due to cost and the need (in this case, WWI and WWII). It was after that when commercial aviation "took off" (sorry for the pun, but it gets the point across). Space travel is at the same stage today. There is a flurry of development going on in the commercial sectors right now. And that is a good thing. We need that right now to develop this new arena. Yes, it causes an apparent lull in that there doesn't seem to be anything really happening. But there is! So look at this as a glass half-full sort of thing. For those of us reading this today on this forum, we will see space travel explode in the very near future. We will see this new era being born. And grow. These are exciting times. We just have to know where to look. And that unfortunately, is the apparent "lack" of excitement/interest in the common arena. Very few know where to look to see the real things that are happening. |
neo1022
Member Posts: 281
From: Santa Monica, CA
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted 01-21-2014 03:06 PM
Apropos of the issues being discussed on this thread, a timely article on the waxing and waning of public interest in the space program, and why it still rocks! |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-21-2014 03:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Behling:
Don't look for the US government to provide the funding either, there is no driving need. The Cold War is over.
Only suspended... |
Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 968
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 01-21-2014 03:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Behling:
And you are basing that on what information or experience?
Well, can only think of one group that managed to put together a successful space voyage and that was the Gun Club of Baltimore, Maryland led by the infamous Professor Barbicane.  |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1463
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 01-21-2014 07:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAholic:
Only suspended...
We aren't going to get in a #$%#@ contest with China. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-22-2014 01:29 AM
While I think there will always be interest in spaceflight and space history, I do think there are portions of the space collecting hobby that are either shrinking or will soon be in decline.Collecting space autographs was once a nearly-free hobby that only required writing some letters and licking some postage stamps. But with the majority of the M-G-A astronauts no longer signing through the mail and many Shuttle/ISS era astronauts becoming increasingly wary of signing for free, there aren't many affordable options for young collectors to enter the hobby. That's only compounded by the fact that signing fees at autograph shows took a significant upsurge in prices since 2008...with many astronauts doubling or tripling their fees at a time when the economy was at an all-time low. (Add this to the fact that autograph shows themselves face an uncertain future as the population of pioneering astronauts gets smaller.) The price of entry into the autograph hobby is now prohibitive to most except for those who already have significant disposable incomes. And since that rules out most children and young adults from the hobby, the future of autograph collecting could be somewhat in doubt. The market prices for autographs almost needs to crash in order to make the hobby accessible for new generations. With regards to collecting flown material and artifacts, we have seen a great upsurge of activity over the past decade as astronauts have auctioned their collections for significant sums. The current auction market is, however, likely unsustainable over time as the number of available astronaut (or NASA worker) collections dwindles over time. Ironically, it may be the aging/dying collectors who eventually provide the bulk of the material for auction houses in the future. Again, since this is mostly the realm for rich collectors, there is very little room for new collectors on a budget to enter into this marketplace. Space philately has been dying off slowly for the last couple of decades and the market is mostly cornered by the 50+ age demographic. Interestingly, prices for space covers have fallen significantly in the past decade or two, making this a more affordable collectibles market. Unfortunately, there just doesn't seem to be a lot interest in space philately in the under-40 crowd to replace the older collectors out there. Also, I just don't currently see a big upsurge in collecting patches, pin, coins, toys, and models to off-set potentially losses of collectors in the autograph and artifacts market. There may be a strong market there, but I don't personally see it. Collecting can often by cyclical, so a downturn one decade can lead to an upswing in another decade. Certain things will always be desirable (especially artifacts and autographs), but the question is whether the hobby will expand...or whether it will be confined to an increasingly exclusive population of collectors. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-22-2014 05:38 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
Certain things will always be desirable (especially artifacts and autographs), but the question is whether the hobby will expand...or whether it will be confined to an increasingly exclusive population of collectors.
The "exclusivity of ownership" in many cases is underpinned by individual acquisitions which have little to do with an actual interest in collecting space per say - while some buyer's pay lots for artifacts/flown items because they are truly enamored with space history, there are an increasing number of wealthy international competitors for this material who purchase perceived rare/desirable items just for the sake of possessing them or retaining as a hard commodity (as an alternative to cash). An environment which will attrit available supply and further escalate prices. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 01-22-2014 06:31 AM
Talking about general space-related ephemera, as someone who's been following space patches for a significant time I'd say the interest level hasn't shown any signs of decline over the last decade.There always seems to be a steady influx of new collectors and these can't all be old timers who grew up watching the Apollo missions on their tvs. As for pins, I never really looked at them in detail (apart from Silver Snoopys) but back in 2005 I did start tracking sales of the Grumman "1st Manned Lunar Landing" pins. These pins are not particularly famous and have no site or write-up dedicated to them that I know of. The supply is pretty steady, with examples appearing on eBay at the rate of maybe one or two per month. Despite the lack of fame and despite the significant supply, these modest pins have rarely sold for less than $40 over the past decade. I see no sign in this data of any drop off in demand. |
spkjb
Member Posts: 144
From: Merritt Island, Florida USA
Registered: May 2011
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posted 01-27-2014 06:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by neo1022:
Interesting discussion! But I can't help but think it's all a bit short-sighted. I come at this from the point of view of a new collector and an anthropologist.
This is a an outstanding discourse.Without focusing on the short term... Interesting exercise to try and imagine in 100 (1000, and greater) years the scarcity and value of these items; especially those that were first to leave the earth for another world. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-29-2014 05:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by spkjb:
Without focusing on the short term... Interesting exercise to try and imagine in 100 (1000, and greater) years the scarcity and value of these items; especially those that were first to leave the earth for another world.
In some respects, we already have a good comparison at hand with the collectibility of early aviation artifacts. With over 100 years of heavier-than-air flight now behind us, we've seen aviation go from a miraculous new wonder, to an interesting public spectical, to a more practical and useful technology, and finally to an everyday occurance for travel and transportation. The height of public interest in aviation was possibly in the 20s and 30s, when barnstorming aviators attracted large crowds to events. However, public fascination with aviation is probably lower now because many people now regularly use aviation for traveling and business...it's no longer a source of fascination for most people. In other words, the flight is no longer the wonderous part of the journey...it's the time when most people try to take a nap or read a book. As a collectibles market, there are certainly a fair number of aviation collectors out there, but public memory for historic flights and accomplishments generally only extends to the big historic "firsts" accomplished by the Wright Brothers, Charles Lindbergh, Chuck Yeager, etc...or any significant missions tied to wartime exploits. A lot of the in-between history is largely forgotten by many of the collectors. I think the space program is still transitioning from their own "barnstorming" days to more practical applications. Once the average person can ride in space, there may be a further flux of interest. But after spaceflight becomes a common occurance, then collecting will mostly only focus on the big achievements (Vostok 1, Apollo 11, etc.) and the historic failures (Apollo 1, Challenger, Columbia, etc.). A lot of the in-between missions may one day be largely forgotten by general collectors, especially once all of the men who flew those missions aren't around to make public appearances or tell their stories. | |
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