Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

Websites
related space history websites

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Opinions & Advice
  Value of Apollo 11 signed WSS (w/NASA ID)?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Value of Apollo 11 signed WSS (w/NASA ID)?
Christie35
New Member

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 08-04-2011 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Christie35   Click Here to Email Christie35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How much is a crew signed WSS original photograph on A Kodak Paper worth (edges are sharp, no curling and signatures are clear)?

I inherited an album of photographs from my father, Riley Wilson, who worked at the LRL during Apollo 11. The photograph is personalized to my father.

I've been told different quotes. One was $2k-$5k and the other was $10k.

Rick Mulheirn
Member

Posts: 2635
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-04-2011 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the signatures are original I would imagine your first valuation to be correct for a personalised photo; the second for one that was not personalised.

Christie35
New Member

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 08-04-2011 04:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Christie35   Click Here to Email Christie35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you, this helps a lot. I was interested in selling the photo to a serious collector. Do you think an auction is the best course of action or a private buyer?

spaced out
Member

Posts: 2686
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-05-2011 01:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Realistically you're probably looking at around $3k, although there's no predicting exactly how any particular signed item will sell.

albatron
Member

Posts: 2167
From: Stuart, Florida, USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 08-05-2011 08:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for albatron   Click Here to Email albatron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes you'd certainly be better off in an auction - and not eBay.

Christie35
New Member

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 08-05-2011 11:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Christie35   Click Here to Email Christie35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know how I attach a photo to my reply?

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29230
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-05-2011 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
See here for instructions or e-mail your photo to have it posted for you.

Christie35
New Member

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 08-05-2011 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Christie35   Click Here to Email Christie35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you so much!

george9785
Member

Posts: 196
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2010

posted 08-05-2011 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for george9785   Click Here to Email george9785     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Christie, in many ways it's a distasteful idea, particularly since it was personalized to your father and because it helps greatly with provenance and authentication, but given the difference in value in this case between personalized vs non-personalized and because you've decided to sell it anyway, you may wish to consider the possibility of seeing whether you can have the personalization professionally removed from the photo. I've seen the picture posted on the Buy, Sell, Trade forum, and I think the marker used would lend the photo to this process.

I can't offer any further advice on that topic, but it's been discussed on cS before and you'd likely need the opinion of one or more businesses that offer this service. It would too certainly be preferable if anyone offering such services were able to provide some sort of guarantee above and beyond their service fees.

I'm sure it's contentious but in the end it's a personal or "business" choice that you may want to make, particularly since the person you sell it to may also consider the prospect.

I invite others to offer their opinion here, some of which I'm sure will be particularly strong against the prospect - which, if I could ignore the commerce reasons, I would be in agreement.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29230
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-05-2011 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by george9785:
In many ways it's a distasteful idea...
...which should be enough of a reason not to do it.

Not only do you risk permanently damaging the photo, but the only way that removing the personalization significantly increases the sale price is if the seller does not acknowledge that it was done — at best a purposeful act of deception.

In my opinion, it is much better to leave that decision to the buyer.

Besides, without the personalization, any such claim about when and where it was signed becomes somewhat meaningless. You have a much better chance of someone taking a liking to the story and history surrounding the piece and paying more then you do someone ignoring even the slightest sign of removed ink.

Christie35
New Member

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 08-05-2011 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Christie35   Click Here to Email Christie35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have been doing some research and have seen many personalized items on auction sites that have done well (realized price). I am starting to re-consider my decision to sell as that I am receiving low-ball offers on an original piece that is authentic and has been very well kept. This photograph was one of the first ones signed at the astronauts' reception directly after they were released from quarantine at the LRL. Thank you to everyone for all of your helpful advice.

george9785
Member

Posts: 196
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2010

posted 08-05-2011 03:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for george9785   Click Here to Email george9785     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
... but the only way that removing the personalization significantly increases the sale price is if the seller does not acknowledge that it was done...

I can't agree with that - I believe that a seller can acknowledge the removal of a personalization during its sale and that it likely would significantly increase the sale price - it's all a matter of the quality of the removal.

mjanovec
Member

Posts: 3627
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 08-05-2011 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert is correct. The personalization should not be removed. That's a decision best left for the potential buyer to make.

george9785
Member

Posts: 196
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2010

posted 08-05-2011 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for george9785   Click Here to Email george9785     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
That's a decision best left for the potential buyer to make.

I think you're applying your opinion too much from the perspective of the buyer Mark. For one thing, one doesn't even know the intent of the potential buyer. Does a potential buyer, for example, want to remove the personalization just to take advantage of the resale opportunity (profit) from removing the personalization himself/herself? Why shouldn't the original owner (his daughter in this case) have that choice to potentially realize more of the commercial value of what they own?

gliderpilotuk
Member

Posts: 3153
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-06-2011 10:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm with Mark (and Robert). Rarely can an inscription be removed without some evidence being left behind: indentation, smudging, discoloration of the surrounding area...and most obviously: an odd-looking placement of the residual signature. You might fool some people (even some auction houses!), but a serious collector will spot the removal.

george9785
Member

Posts: 196
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2010

posted 08-06-2011 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for george9785   Click Here to Email george9785     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
You might fool some people ...

How about we discontinue the comments that deception was any part of what I suggested to Christie as an option/choice - it wasn't what I suggested and I don't think it should have been implied from what I wrote.

On the other hand, if the quality of the removal was such that it was next to impossible to tell there ever was a personalization, I would leave it to the seller's discretion to disclose or not. Personally, I would and I would use the knowledge of the personalization before and after its removal (including with pictures), to help support its authentication especially if I were working with an authenticator.

There really is no need to be discussing the removal of a personalization or other written comments from an item like this and liken it to doctoring a document because of some gut reaction that might lack objectivity. It's been brought up here as a matter of how an item is displayed or personal preferences in ownership characteristics of an item, how such affects market value, and how and who could or should capitalize on options that might exist related to making such changes to an item.

mjanovec
Member

Posts: 3627
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 08-06-2011 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by george9785:
I think you're applying your opinion too much from the perspective of the buyer Mark.

A seller should always try to look at things from the perspective of the potential buyer. That's just smart business sense.

Removing the inscription will be viewed by a lot of potential buyers as either harming the piece or tampering with it (whether it is done with deception or not). There are many collectors who are okay with the personalization and actually prefer the provenance that they sometimes provide. At the very least, a potential buyer probably prefers to have a choice over whether to keep the personalization or not. Once you remove that choice, you also remove some of the potential buyers.

The seller owns the nicest Apollo 11 signed crew photo I've seen for sale in quite a while. In my opinion, it's ill advised to try tampering with a photo that already looks perfect.

quote:
Originally posted by george9785:
On the other hand, if the quality of the removal was such that it was next to impossible to tell there ever was a personalization, I would leave it to the seller's discretion to disclose or not.

So you're saying that it's okay to be deceptive as long as the removal won't be noticed?

george9785
Member

Posts: 196
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2010

posted 08-06-2011 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for george9785   Click Here to Email george9785     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
A seller should always try to look at things from the perspective of the potential buyer.

The targeted potential buyer in the case where a decision is made to remove a personalization is the buyer who prefers it without the personalization and is willing to pay the premium without it. The original owner therefore excludes those other potential buyers who will possibly purchase the item with the personalization and not pay the premium. That's the business choice the original owner makes (or doesn't make if it was never a consideration).

quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
So you're saying that it's okay to be deceptive as long as the removal won't be noticed?

I'm saying that it shouldn't make any difference to an objective and reasonable mind whether the personalization was ever there if the end result is such that it might as well never have been there (for disposition purposes) because it's, for all intents and purposes, impossible to tell or to distinguish it from another that never had the personalization to begin with.

JasonB
Member

Posts: 706
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 08-06-2011 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JasonB   Click Here to Email JasonB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just leave the personalization on there. It does effect value when an inscription is removed from a photo (they do it on baseballs and it lowers the value) and I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't leave some sort of evidence of removal. You're never going to get the price of an unpersonalized crew photo because it never was one, so it's best to just leave it alone. You'll get a fair price for it so why even risk messing it up?

Christie35
New Member

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 08-06-2011 10:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Christie35   Click Here to Email Christie35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wish to thank each of you for all of your valuable insights. I believe I will leave the photograph untouched (seeing as how the last known people to have touched it were the signers, my father...and myself, of course). In doing this I preserve a lasting memory of my father's work and appreciation of NASA and the Apollo Program. Who knows in the end I may just hold on to it...at least then I know it would never be altered.

capoetc
Member

Posts: 1740
From: Newnan GA (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 08-09-2011 08:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Christie, it would definitely be nice if you could keep that family heirloom in your family. For what it's worth, though, I would add my name to the list of those who think that removing the inscription would be a bad idea.

In addition to the potential that you could damage the photo (and I don't think any reputable vendor would do the job without having you sign a release stating that they will be held harmless if the photo gets damaged), in my opinion a period-inscribed photo to someone involved in the program would be worth far more to most collectors than would the same photo with a removed inscription. If you were to remove the inscription, you might consider permanently noting on the back of the photo that it was formerly inscribed to your Dad and the inscription was professionally removed by XXX (the company). That way, there will not be a future unscrupulous sale purporting the photo to be uninscribed.

george9785
Member

Posts: 196
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2010

posted 08-09-2011 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for george9785   Click Here to Email george9785     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capoetc:
... in my opinion a period-inscribed photo to someone involved in the program would be worth far more to most collectors than would the same photo with a removed inscription.

Ideologically maybe but not in reality with respect to commercial (monetary) value and under the assumption that the removal was successfully achieved (near impossible to tell whether it was ever personalized). The opening poster's inquiry sought a commercial valuation not an ideological one. The sales data, which are real and can be relied upon, provide objective market values and include the input of those who would place a monetary value on such ideals. Unfortunately, they/we don't put a high value on them since there wouldn't otherwise be such a large difference in market value in this case between personalized and non-personalized. This is also evidenced by the market value collectors place on period pieces such as most awards to NASA support employees like certificates, etc. Most people only want to "worship the heroes" per se and once an item like Christie's leaves the family, few people/collectors will care too much about Mr. Wilson. That's just the hard truth.

Just for those that would consider removal of a personalization however, please note that when I referred earlier to having it professionally removed, I wasn't considering your local photo/print shop, a dry cleaner, or such similar places. Due to its value, one would want to only entrust such a process or opinion to a conservator/restoration professional who handles archival materials and is familiar with the latest technologies and providers of such services whether they be energy or chemical based.

Just to also try and get a message across that I partly wanted to make, ask yourself the following:

If a photo that was signed by the Apollo 11 crew in the '60's that today, due to the weak ink that was used and exposure over time, left absolutely no evidence on the photo that it was ever signed, how much would you honestly be willing to pay for it assuming the seller represents that it was signed and you believe him (let's say too he's offering an accompanying picture that he took in earlier years when the signatures were still visible on the photo)? While it might be nice to claim that it was once handled by the astronauts, would you pay $5,000, $500, or would you even pay $50?

capoetc
Member

Posts: 1740
From: Newnan GA (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 08-09-2011 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by george9785:
Ideologically maybe but not in reality ...

The bottom line here, George, is that your opinion clearly differs from that of other collectors who have posted here. You really don't have to respond to every single one -- we get it that you think it would be great to remove the inscription.

In my opinion, the only way that photo with the inscription removed is worth MORE than with the inscription is if the seller were to mislead the buyer into thinking it was an uninscribed signed photo.

Your opinion is clearly the opposite of mine (and most everyone else here, I might add), so no need to respond and state it again.

Oh, and ... by the way, there are MANY instances of collectors wishing to preserve the original nature of items that came directly from folks who worked in the program. I have several of these kinds of items in my collection, and each is accompanied by photos, interviews, oral histories, magazine articles, and/or other things that chronicle not only the item itself but also the connection of the item's previous owner to the program. Your opinion may be that this is rubbish, but the facts say differently.

If I were to purchase the signed photo from Christie, I would most definitely want to have included in the deal a photo of the previous owner and, if possible, copies of any documents or other items that tell the story of the owner's connection to the program. Many, many other collectors would feel the same, I am quite sure.

ejectr
Member

Posts: 1517
From: Brimfield, MA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 08-09-2011 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ejectr   Click Here to Email ejectr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why mess with original history. Leave the inscription on the photo and you don't have to worry about what someone thinks or the damage that might be done.

Stop thinking about the extra money that COULD POSSIBLY be made and start thinking about how you could mess up an original that only one of a kind exists. Someone thought enough of you to care for what they thought the world of. Now all you're going to care about is what you can get for it??? Have a little compassion for history, the photo and who owned it before you.

Why add problems that are not there?

Christie35
New Member

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 08-09-2011 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Christie35   Click Here to Email Christie35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Although this is the Opinion and Advice thread... I have no intention of removing my father's name from the photograph. I was simply trying to assume what monetary value the photograph had since it is known that Mr. Armstrong had stopped signing for more than 15 years.

I may just keep my photograph for the family, as it completes the set of photographs that my father left me. I do appreciate everyone's valuable insights.

george9785
Member

Posts: 196
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2010

posted 08-09-2011 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for george9785   Click Here to Email george9785     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capoetc:
...we get it that you think it would be great to remove the inscription.

It's interesting how you're able to speak for the group and state that John when I never even communicated such a thing and for that matter, offered very little opinion but mostly facts. I communicated first and foremost that a choice exists - that wasn't an opinion. My opinion centered around that that choice should first go to the original owner - as long as that person knows to begin with such an option/choice exists. My only other opinion, which is based on reasonable thought and knowledge of human behaviour, is that an item where the personalization is successfully removed will increase its value to the broader market - and I earlier qualified how I define "successfully removed".

spaced out
Member

Posts: 2686
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-09-2011 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Christie35:
I was simply trying to assume what monetary value the photograph had since it is known that Mr. Armstrong had stopped signing for more than 15 years.
I note that you're looking to sell for $5k+ but I reiterate what I stated early in the thread as a realistic estimate of value for this piece - around $3k. You might get more but that estimate is based on observing similar pieces sell over the last few years.

If you're unwilling to sell at the current 'going rate' then you're only other option is to keep it in the family collection, which might be a nice idea in any case.

HelmetHair
New Member

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 08-09-2011 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for HelmetHair   Click Here to Email HelmetHair     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My opinion?

Leave the inscription. It shows a link with the LRL. If you have other documents that you can include to show this, so much the better.

I imagine three signed crew portraits as this one, inscribed to different people:

  1. To Charlie Duke
  2. To Riley Wilson
  3. To the McFuzzle family
Do you remove the inscriptions?

spkjb
Member

Posts: 110
From: Merritt Island, Florida USA
Registered: May 2011

posted 08-10-2011 08:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spkjb   Click Here to Email spkjb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by george9785:
...you may wish to consider the possibility of seeing whether you can have the personalization professionally removed from the photo.
This is slightly off topic but related. Could a buyer keep the inscription and matte over it if he wanted (that way inscription remains) to display without it?

I don't fully understand matting process so this may not be possible.

Also understand that maybe in this case and others it not possible due to location of inscription.

garymilgrom
Member

Posts: 1725
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 08-10-2011 09:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for garymilgrom   Click Here to Email garymilgrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mattes can be cut in any shape, but the location of the inscription on this photo means the matte would be odd looking - I don't think this is an acceptable solution. See below.

Apollo Matt 2

capoetc
Member

Posts: 1740
From: Newnan GA (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 08-10-2011 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by george9785:
It's interesting how you're able to speak for the group and state that John when I never even communicated such a thing and for that matter, offered very little opinion but mostly facts. ...

George, here are snippets from your posts above, posted every single time someone suggested that perhaps inscription removal might not be the wise way to go:

… I believe that a seller can acknowledge the removal of a personalization during its sale and that it likely would significantly increase the sale price …

… Why shouldn't the original owner (his daughter in this case) have that choice to potentially realize more of the commercial value of what they own?

… On the other hand, if the quality of the removal was such that it was next to impossible to tell there ever was a personalization, I would leave it to the seller's discretion to disclose or not. …

… There really is no need to be discussing the removal of a personalization or other written comments from an item like this and liken it to doctoring a document because of some gut reaction that might lack objectivity. …

I'm saying that it shouldn't make any difference to an objective and reasonable mind whether the personalization was ever there if the end result is such that it might as well never have been there (for disposition purposes) because it's, for all intents and purposes, impossible to tell or to distinguish it from another that never had the personalization to begin with.

I'll let others decide whether you ever said such a thing, and I'll allow that to be my final post on the matter.

george9785
Member

Posts: 196
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2010

posted 08-10-2011 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for george9785   Click Here to Email george9785     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capoetc:
Your opinion may be that this is rubbish...
Before you go, why don't you do the same for this as well John. I must say I'm very unimpressed with you and your lack of objectivity.

fredtrav
Member

Posts: 1069
From: Birmingham AL USA
Registered: Aug 2010

posted 08-10-2011 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fredtrav   Click Here to Email fredtrav     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Personally, I would not remove the inscription.

As to whether the seller should remove it that is the sellers option. To say the seller should leave it to the buyer to decide, I don't follow that line of thinking. If current owner (seller A) sells it to buyer B with the inscription for $3,000, then buyer B has the inscription removed and he turns around and sells it to buyer C for $5,000 what is the difference? It is the owner who should decide what to do with it, whether it is the original owner or someone who has purchased it. I would hope that if someone does have the inscription removed it would be revealed that an inscription has been removed.

george9785
Member

Posts: 196
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2010

posted 08-10-2011 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for george9785   Click Here to Email george9785     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fredtrav:
If current owner (seller A) sells it to buyer B with the inscription for $3,000, then buyer B has the inscription removed and he turns around and sells it to buyer C for $5,000 what is the difference? It is the owner who should decide what to do with it...

Now I'm in total agreement with that. As to the difference...

It would have been unfortunate if Seller A never knew of the option to begin with and saw Seller B realize the quick profit and was disgruntled about it particularly if she went to a forum and asked questions about value and nobody decided to say anything to her about that possible consideration.

capoetc
Member

Posts: 1740
From: Newnan GA (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 08-10-2011 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by george9785:
Before you go, why don't you do the same for this as well John. I must say I'm very unimpressed with you and your lack of objectivity.
Ok, I'll bite then... do the same for what as well?

I was merely pointing out that you said multiple times that it would be okay to remove the inscription, in your opinion. In fact, if I recall correctly, you are the one who brought up the idea of removing the inscription originally in this thread.

I fail to see how my pointing this out makes me un-objective, and if you are saying I should have included my own quote in the list of your quotes, then I would counter that such action would make my post confusing to the reader.

I suppose there isn't much I can do about you being unimpressed with me -- I'll lose lots of sleep over that prospect tonite.

Bottom line, we clearly disagree regarding the advice for the OP of this thread. The OP has stated that the item will remain, at least for now, in the family collection. So, at least for now, there is probably no need to pay to have the inscription professionally removed. Problem solved!

george9785
Member

Posts: 196
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2010

posted 08-11-2011 02:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for george9785   Click Here to Email george9785     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capoetc:
...do the same for what as well?

Provide my statements where I called NASA support worker memorabilia "rubbish" ...and "...let others decide whether I ever said such a thing..."

If you have trouble understanding the concept of market value and how such is derived and who contributes to market value, you should seek assistance from someone other than myself. You shouldn't be attempting to disparage me by twisting my communications to assist you in making your arguments. I called nothing "rubbish" - I communicated/translated a sense of the monetary value placed on such things by the market. While I am part of the greater market, I am not the market.

Part of what I was and am attempting to communicate through this discussion is that one shouldn't try to pressure another into following their own sensibilities on such a matter, particularly when it's based on some dogmatic attitude that may be more dominantly held here on this forum and not based on a moral or ethical issue. Some here, innocently in most or all cases, introduced deception into the picture to maybe get morality or ethics added to the mix, but it didn't have to be and wasn't intended to be by my initiating consideration of the removal of a personalization into the discussion.

Who are we, in this particular instance or similar instances, to pressure someone against such a consideration or to try and judge them (or myself for suggesting it to begin with) for doing with their personal property what they may see fit especially if their decision is pressured by say a dire financial need that we're not even aware of? While comments that cautioned about the risk of damaging the photo were more than valid in that regard, I wouldn't be quick to pressure or judge based on certain sensibilities that are not necessarily or always well-founded.

Ross
Member

Posts: 391
From: Australia
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 08-11-2011 08:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ross   Click Here to Email Ross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While I have been loathe to comment up until now, I must ask the following question.

In the stamp market there are sellers who buy hinged stamps, re-gum them and and sell them for a significant profit (as an aside I've always wondered why late 19th/early 20th century unhinged stamps are worth such a premium in the US. In Australia the difference is much smaller). This is universally condemned as it should be. Isn't removing an inscription equivalent?

I do however, agree that if the inscription is removed it should be noted on the back.

My opinion for what it's worth. Leave it.

capoetc
Member

Posts: 1740
From: Newnan GA (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 08-11-2011 11:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by george9785:
Provide my statements where I called NASA support worker memorabilia "rubbish" ...and "...let others decide whether I ever said such a thing..."
Ok, I'll officially depart this thread now.

For the record, I never said that you called NASA support worker memorabilia rubbish. Re-read my post. Here is an excerpt, not taken out of context:

"Oh, and ... by the way, there are MANY instances of collectors wishing to preserve the original nature of items that came directly from folks who worked in the program. I have several of these kinds of items in my collection, and each is accompanied by photos, interviews, oral histories, magazine articles, and/or other things that chronicle not only the item itself but also the connection of the item's previous owner to the program. Your opinion may be that this is rubbish, but the facts say differently.

My point, which you apparently missed, is that it appeared that you may think the idea that a collector would actually want to preserve an historical item in its original format in order to preserve the connection to the original NASA employee is rubbish. I never said that you said the NASA support worker memorabilia itself was rubbish.

In closing, it is most unfortunate that a simple question from someone resulted in such an escalated exchange. I honestly wish I had just not posted at all. I keep saying I'll stop getting involved in this stuff so I'll just go back to lurker mode now.

For Christie, the OP, if you are still monitoring this thread... I hope you found some value in the discussion. George is correct, there may be collectors out there who will pay more for the item with the inscription removed. At least you are now aware of the potential pitfalls with making such a decision and you can make a more informed choice. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

Christie35
New Member

Posts:
From:
Registered:

posted 08-11-2011 01:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Christie35   Click Here to Email Christie35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you to all. At least now I know what to expect if I do remove or do not remove my father's name from the photo.

Originally, I was only inquiring about the differences in quotes, now I see that the "inscription" is the difference.

I appreciate your passion in delivering an answer that delves both in the moral and ethical views of inscription removal as it plays into whether the seller is purposefully being deceptive, or is just looking to cash in.

I am in no way attempting to deceive anyone. I am very proud of my father's acheivements. My initial reason for selling the photograph was due to financial strain, but now I see the true value...inscription included.

Whether or not someone else sees that same value is up to them. I just want a fair price for a very nice piece of NASA's history. If I get $5K for it or I get $9K for it, the history cannot be erased, even if the buyer attempts to try.

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 1999-2014 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement